"I am a bit dismayed at the number of likes a post promoting counter-violence has received."
I'm not promoting counter-violence, only pointing to the *fact* that violent authoritarian movements of the past weren't put down by the temperance of liberalism. They were put down with overwhelming counter-violence. There's a *big* difference be…
"I am a bit dismayed at the number of likes a post promoting counter-violence has received."
I'm not promoting counter-violence, only pointing to the *fact* that violent authoritarian movements of the past weren't put down by the temperance of liberalism. They were put down with overwhelming counter-violence. There's a *big* difference between making historical clarifications that are grounded in facts and "promoting" counter-violence. Promoting counter-violence would be telling people to gun up and start taking things into their own hands. That's not at all what I'm doing here.
I'm on your side, Travis, counter violence a this time would not be productive. I also stand by my earlier thoughts about "something really bad will result from Trump's reelection" and it could involve mass violence and destruction. It took 30+ million deaths, Europe and Japan in ruins for liberalism to be saved from evil in WW II. Germany, Italy and Japan were delivered from evil by outsiders. This time around, America could be on the wrong side of history, siding with the autocrats and modern tsars. These are Trump's peeps. Who will save America then, NATO?
If it's a "historical clarification grounded in facts" that the temperance of liberalism failed, what is left? The point you made in your original post on how Maga types view liberals are "facts" in their world, are they not? In their world we are devils and demons.
Saw an interview in which a focus group moderator relayed the response she got from citing unemployment statistics. "Where did you get those stats?" came the replay. "From the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The retort was "I will get my own source of statistics because those can't be right.
That is the kind of reasoning that should be exposed to persuadable voters who aren't yet paying attention. I think the historical facts of violent responses to fascism only scares them.
There wasn't reasoning that would have changed the minds/actions of Hitler's or Mussolini's movements either, and that which cannot be reasoned with and conducts itself violently can only be stopped with counter-violence. Maybe we're already on that path, just not at that final destination yet. At the very least people should start mentally preparing themselves for that possibility. We just might get to find out exactly how much democracy means to people when they might have to fight to maintain it themselves, as opposed to just carrying on with their regular daily lives under an autocratic/violent government. There's a non-zero chance of that happening during our lifetimes from where I'm sitting.
"We just might get to find out exactly how much democracy means to people when they might have to fight to maintain it themselves, as opposed to just carrying on with their regular daily lives under an autocratic/violent government."
I'm a lifelong Texas leftist who regularly gets into "good trouble" fighting the fascists who have been in charge of this state for years. Antifa are the good guys down here.
then we are already on that path because hard-core Maga-types cannot be reasoned with. There is a slimmer of hope with his election and that is the breakaway of those who choose to ignore the state in which we find ourselves. Heard a priceless comment from historian Heather Cox Richardson to those who blithely claim they don't get involved in politics. She said, politics is about to get very involved with YOU.
We're on the path via not being able to reason with them, but we're not on the path via them doing autocratic government with unconstrained extra-legal violence yet.
And yes, people may not be interested in politics, but politics may be interested in them. The same applies to violence--whether political or otherwise. You may not be interested in it, but it may be interested in you.
Sad to say Americans in neighborhoods across the country with illegal immigrants in their midst are about to see that violence as they watch neighbors dragging into the streets by "jack-booted government thugs" and into awaiting transports. What will happen to the crying children clinging to their mother's skirts?
"I am a bit dismayed at the number of likes a post promoting counter-violence has received."
I'm not promoting counter-violence, only pointing to the *fact* that violent authoritarian movements of the past weren't put down by the temperance of liberalism. They were put down with overwhelming counter-violence. There's a *big* difference between making historical clarifications that are grounded in facts and "promoting" counter-violence. Promoting counter-violence would be telling people to gun up and start taking things into their own hands. That's not at all what I'm doing here.
I'm on your side, Travis, counter violence a this time would not be productive. I also stand by my earlier thoughts about "something really bad will result from Trump's reelection" and it could involve mass violence and destruction. It took 30+ million deaths, Europe and Japan in ruins for liberalism to be saved from evil in WW II. Germany, Italy and Japan were delivered from evil by outsiders. This time around, America could be on the wrong side of history, siding with the autocrats and modern tsars. These are Trump's peeps. Who will save America then, NATO?
If it's a "historical clarification grounded in facts" that the temperance of liberalism failed, what is left? The point you made in your original post on how Maga types view liberals are "facts" in their world, are they not? In their world we are devils and demons.
Saw an interview in which a focus group moderator relayed the response she got from citing unemployment statistics. "Where did you get those stats?" came the replay. "From the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The retort was "I will get my own source of statistics because those can't be right.
That is the kind of reasoning that should be exposed to persuadable voters who aren't yet paying attention. I think the historical facts of violent responses to fascism only scares them.
There wasn't reasoning that would have changed the minds/actions of Hitler's or Mussolini's movements either, and that which cannot be reasoned with and conducts itself violently can only be stopped with counter-violence. Maybe we're already on that path, just not at that final destination yet. At the very least people should start mentally preparing themselves for that possibility. We just might get to find out exactly how much democracy means to people when they might have to fight to maintain it themselves, as opposed to just carrying on with their regular daily lives under an autocratic/violent government. There's a non-zero chance of that happening during our lifetimes from where I'm sitting.
"We just might get to find out exactly how much democracy means to people when they might have to fight to maintain it themselves, as opposed to just carrying on with their regular daily lives under an autocratic/violent government."
I'm a lifelong Texas leftist who regularly gets into "good trouble" fighting the fascists who have been in charge of this state for years. Antifa are the good guys down here.
then we are already on that path because hard-core Maga-types cannot be reasoned with. There is a slimmer of hope with his election and that is the breakaway of those who choose to ignore the state in which we find ourselves. Heard a priceless comment from historian Heather Cox Richardson to those who blithely claim they don't get involved in politics. She said, politics is about to get very involved with YOU.
We're on the path via not being able to reason with them, but we're not on the path via them doing autocratic government with unconstrained extra-legal violence yet.
And yes, people may not be interested in politics, but politics may be interested in them. The same applies to violence--whether political or otherwise. You may not be interested in it, but it may be interested in you.
Sad to say Americans in neighborhoods across the country with illegal immigrants in their midst are about to see that violence as they watch neighbors dragging into the streets by "jack-booted government thugs" and into awaiting transports. What will happen to the crying children clinging to their mother's skirts?
And I'm sure that the government that "is the problem" won't mess up and drag off anybody they shouldn't.
Yup