8 Comments
User's avatar
⭠ Return to thread
Bob Kohut's avatar

If it's a "historical clarification grounded in facts" that the temperance of liberalism failed, what is left? The point you made in your original post on how Maga types view liberals are "facts" in their world, are they not? In their world we are devils and demons.

Saw an interview in which a focus group moderator relayed the response she got from citing unemployment statistics. "Where did you get those stats?" came the replay. "From the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The retort was "I will get my own source of statistics because those can't be right.

That is the kind of reasoning that should be exposed to persuadable voters who aren't yet paying attention. I think the historical facts of violent responses to fascism only scares them.

Expand full comment
Travis's avatar

There wasn't reasoning that would have changed the minds/actions of Hitler's or Mussolini's movements either, and that which cannot be reasoned with and conducts itself violently can only be stopped with counter-violence. Maybe we're already on that path, just not at that final destination yet. At the very least people should start mentally preparing themselves for that possibility. We just might get to find out exactly how much democracy means to people when they might have to fight to maintain it themselves, as opposed to just carrying on with their regular daily lives under an autocratic/violent government. There's a non-zero chance of that happening during our lifetimes from where I'm sitting.

Expand full comment
Reldas's avatar

"We just might get to find out exactly how much democracy means to people when they might have to fight to maintain it themselves, as opposed to just carrying on with their regular daily lives under an autocratic/violent government."

I'm a lifelong Texas leftist who regularly gets into "good trouble" fighting the fascists who have been in charge of this state for years. Antifa are the good guys down here.

Expand full comment
Bob Kohut's avatar

then we are already on that path because hard-core Maga-types cannot be reasoned with. There is a slimmer of hope with his election and that is the breakaway of those who choose to ignore the state in which we find ourselves. Heard a priceless comment from historian Heather Cox Richardson to those who blithely claim they don't get involved in politics. She said, politics is about to get very involved with YOU.

Expand full comment
Travis's avatar

We're on the path via not being able to reason with them, but we're not on the path via them doing autocratic government with unconstrained extra-legal violence yet.

And yes, people may not be interested in politics, but politics may be interested in them. The same applies to violence--whether political or otherwise. You may not be interested in it, but it may be interested in you.

Expand full comment
Bob Kohut's avatar

Sad to say Americans in neighborhoods across the country with illegal immigrants in their midst are about to see that violence as they watch neighbors dragging into the streets by "jack-booted government thugs" and into awaiting transports. What will happen to the crying children clinging to their mother's skirts?

Expand full comment
knowltok's avatar

And I'm sure that the government that "is the problem" won't mess up and drag off anybody they shouldn't.

Expand full comment
Travis's avatar

Yup

Expand full comment