Huh. Trump reassures an evangelical audience that they only have to vote once more, and after that everything will be fixed, and they won’t have to vote anymore…
I’ve been wondering if that would be The Gaffe that finally stuck to him, but I guess not?
Huh. Trump reassures an evangelical audience that they only have to vote once more, and after that everything will be fixed, and they won’t have to vote anymore…
I’ve been wondering if that would be The Gaffe that finally stuck to him, but I guess not?
I have been waiting for that gaffe for nine years. He had committed what for anyone else would be “The Gaffe” hundreds if not thousands of times since 2015. I have been waiting for his implosion every day. The political rules we have always lived by in my 71 years no longer apply. That his behavior has no effect at all has just about driven me insane. We are morally, spiritually and politically bankrupt as a country, and I fear we are all about to see the decline and fall of the American empire as a result of our degeneracy.
"We are morally, spiritually and politically bankrupt as a country, and I fear we are all about to see the decline and fall of the American empire as a result of our degeneracy."
Yes. While of course not true of everybody, at some point as a nation we reached a tipping point where selfishness and self-interest began to outweigh the greater good. Aided largely by social media, telling people what they want to hear outweighed telling them what they need to know. Collectively we have been our own worst enemy. And while aspects of it are perceived elsewhere too, it remains an open question as to why America has been so much more susceptible to the malady than most other nations and cultures.
That's writing off the majority that voted against Trump both times.
We're human, susceptible to human maladies. Our system was built with the presumption of reasoned civic engagement by people with knowledge of the function of the system, and we've endured a great deal of malicious sabotage of our fundamental civics education and principles.
And yet solid majorities have turned up against Trump both times.
It's not indecency as a population, it's complexity and frustration and no small measure of obfuscation by people who profit from either civic disengagement or ignorance.
Maybe so if you see it in purely political terms. My 30,000-foot-level view takes in more than just that. Individual mileage may vary, but overall ours has become a very selfish, materialistic, me-first culture, and the cost has trickled down into the political arena as well. It's okay to say it out loud.
I usually agree wholeheartedly with you Mr D, but I am not so sure we are washed up yet. I am holding my fire until I see what the election brings. I agree that the majority seems to have their heads at least somewhat straight.
And, we as a people are dealing with a lot major change right now. The cultural stuff, gay marriage, transgender, book banning, christian nationalism, etc, etc.
There is bound to be major turmoil as all this is confronted. There has always been a certain % of any population that is too lazy or ignorant or doesn't want to know the truth. It is easier for them to follow the leader, then they do not have to try and figure things out.
I hope you are right. My bigger-picture point is less to do with politics and more about the overall nature of change -- which is not always for better. The overriding question is: have our politics made us into who we are, or does who we are determine our politics? I'd argue the latter.
I look around and see so much evolution, for worse, in how we interact with each other and regard others. You are right that much progress has been made on larger-scale cultural issues, and that is important. But little things often serve as a tell too, and on our individual windows to the world. Some examples ... look at how people drive, more and more aggressive than ever. I don't recall road rage being an issue several decades earlier, with all of the flying by at breakneck pace, weaving frequently in and out of traffic, flipping the finger, and otherwise acting like everyone else is in our way. Look at how "discussion" has degenerated in quality in online forums (excepting here, where civility rules) to dumpster fire status. Many sites have done away with comments for just that reasons -- if in doubt read some sports pages on Facebook and elsewhere and see how many people begin to act like teenagers (or younger) at the slightest hint of controversy or difference of opinion. And look at how so many among us dress, wearing clothes out and about that, if they tried to donate them to Goodwill, they would put them into the garbage bin instead. All under the banner of "I don't care what people think, ..." and in service to the self. Taken together, it all says something about who we collectively have become, and it is not a pretty picture.
Thus endeth my sermon for today -- go forth and be righteous, just after our final hymn, number 130 in your book, "Just As I Am."
Politics is an extension of who we are as a culture. The values that inform our culture inform our politics.
Given no countervailing pressures, people tend to be selfish. This is evidenced in what is called the tragedy of the commons, where common resources are abused by selfish individuals.
I was watching a romantic comedy the other day (forget the title, my wife wanted to watch it). It was surprisingly good--not because it was particularly funny (and romance isn't really my thing in literature or movies) but because of the subtext--which was how one of the major characters always turned everything into being all about them.
Our culture and media (and media structures) have made us very self-centered and self-focused. There is minimal care or concern for the community or commons in swathes of our society (and actual anger when common concerns, like the environment, are pointed out).
Through in the death of shame on top of that and you geta toxic brew.
Well said. I agree with you that it is the latter, who we are determines our politics.
The rest of what you said has merit. And I agree with much of it. I know that history may tend to predict a less than favorable outcome of our current situation, such as a complete disintegration of the country as we know it. However we are a unique experiment, and we do have the good fortune of knowing history and how the authoritarians work.
I believe good folk are still the majority. Also so many groups that were formerly kept under society's boot heel now have some power, and visibility. They will not succumb easily nor go quietly. My fingers are crossed, and I say a prayer.
Yes, I believe we are more selfish and less centered on the common good now. It is a message that has bombarded us more and more with each passing generation. We are no longer shaped by the Great Depression and World War II, with their hardships, rather by the subsequent largely deprivation-free eras running from "I've gotta be me" to "greed is good" to "get yours above all else," with more intensity and less tolerance for dissenting viewpoints from others. The proliferation of affordable technology and social media in particular have done a great deal to enhance that, and in a short amount of time.
I tend to agree with your assessment of the upcoming generation, that they are wired somewhat differently in their priorities. But I suspect that it is a reaction more than an action, as they become aware of how much the previous two to three generations have effed up our society and ecology in the name of indulging themselves. What remains to be seen is whether their version of the "I don't want to be like my parents" mindset is truly a sea change or if it lasts only until they have enough to lose that they see things differently. I truly hope that their anti-materialism bend continues rather than yields to economic realities. They seem more aware than many of us that there is much more to life than getting and holding money.
It is less about the toys and more intangible (at least with the youth). More centered upon emotions/feelings. This is, I think, a phenomenon of the internet/social media age.
Trump needs to be mocked, laughed at, humiliated by VP Harris and goaded into saying what he truly feels and thinks about her. Imagine the possibilities! Keep poking him until he erupts.
As the late great Colonel Kurtz once said, they go crazy when I talk about him, but he was a great man, a great man, loved the smell of napalm in the morning. But as he used to say, imagine there was a snail on a boat made of razor blades, and there's a shark in the water. Very unfair, very unfair. They don't tell you about the sharks in the media, by the way, but they're sharks and they're in the water. So would the snail rather crawl across the razor blade or be electrocuted with the shark?
Don, I fully agree that we all need to keep poking and prodding him, but prefer the analogy of exploding, like an over-heated trash bag, spraying his internal garbage over anyone unfortunate enough to be within a blast radius, rather than erupting, since volcanoes can cause death and destruction to anything and anyone over a wide area.
Exploding works! I also changed my original post for VP Harris to take the lead in poking him as a joke and as her INFERIOR. That would be the most effective explosion catalyst.
Of course simply trying to pass it off as a joke is not only intellectually dishonest, it also denies that words have impact upon others. If you say it, you own it, as well as the consequences. This should stick to him no less than our words stick to us, in fact more, given the amount of power and influence involved.
The media reports on what it wants to report. Therein lies your problem. They sell controversy to some and reassurance to others. But they are selling all the time which makes money. If Trump was truly dismissed for the charlatan he is, the GOP would have nothing for their invested time. Then, the voters would not watch as much, less ads would sell and less reporters would get that coveted facetime on TV.
Our elections really are transactional at this point. We're the worse for it.
On that note, I think there might be a little daylight there. Evangelicals are very "law and order." His convictions aren't nothing, even though they discount their importance. And they've gotten everything they wanted from Trump (overturning Roe). And Trump's behavior has always made them uncomfortable. (They do the "we're electing a President, not a pastor" thing, which isn't exactly an endorsement.)
They'll vote for him in droves, if they vote at all, and maybe that's the key. They might sit it out because he's just so awful and JD is just so weird.
I hope there are enough of them sitting this out. But then I see some get so upset by the drag version of the last supper at the Olympics opening ceremony and use this as an excuse to vote for the Orange menace.
His style lends itself to this, right?! He might respond, "The left will say I'm calling off the 2028 election, but I'm just saying I won't be running in that election so I won't be asking you to vote." And he gets free media in some spaces.
I would like to see someone attack him on these rambling rants...if you have to be a member of the cult to understand him, then he cannot be POTUS for all citizens. There are too many important issues for us to be digging around in our Frosted Flakes boxes for a decoder ring!
That's where I think we need to borrow from Reagan. "There you go again..."
Getting in an uproar over it doesn't work. Maybe bemused exasperation combined with a does of, "He either means it, can't control himself, or is deliberately winding you media types up."
Great point! It is funny how humor can totally be disarming.That line from Reagan at Carter and then the one aimed at Mondale about his youth and inexperience. Just brilliant! But they can't seem rehearsed.
That's why I think this "He's so weird" strategy will yield better dividends.
He writes everything off as a joke (I thought busting on McCain would finish him, then the Gold Star family fiasco, by Planet Hollywood nothing really surprised me anymore) but weirdness? That one he can't shake.
Online I've read some tortured explanations: e.g. There are Christians who don't vote as a doctrinal matter. Trump wants them to vote "just this once" so that they will be free never to have to vote again. That is, Trump was courting Don't vote voters.
I don't know, it's only a couple of percent crazier than inviting Hulk Hogan to be the Best Man at the wedding of Donald Trump and JD Vance.
To me, it is very explainable, just like the mountain of similar examples from him. The problem is the mountain. He keeps doing this and keeps doing it all one way. That means they aren't momentary gaffs. At best, he's trolling. At worst....
I would tell people, "No way I'm taking a chance on a guy who called for terminating the Constitution. No one else does that, no one else jokes that way, and there's a GD good reason for that. Now, you want to show me where Harris wants to terminate the Constitution, be a dictator, pardon people I watched attack cops, eliminate voting, etc. and I'll listen. Otherwise, no thanks on Trump."
Huh. Trump reassures an evangelical audience that they only have to vote once more, and after that everything will be fixed, and they won’t have to vote anymore…
I’ve been wondering if that would be The Gaffe that finally stuck to him, but I guess not?
I have been waiting for that gaffe for nine years. He had committed what for anyone else would be “The Gaffe” hundreds if not thousands of times since 2015. I have been waiting for his implosion every day. The political rules we have always lived by in my 71 years no longer apply. That his behavior has no effect at all has just about driven me insane. We are morally, spiritually and politically bankrupt as a country, and I fear we are all about to see the decline and fall of the American empire as a result of our degeneracy.
It's not all of us. Turns out it was mostly those who claim to be the most moral and righteous.
Too true, Catie. And so it is now, and thus it has ever been.
"We are morally, spiritually and politically bankrupt as a country, and I fear we are all about to see the decline and fall of the American empire as a result of our degeneracy."
Yes. While of course not true of everybody, at some point as a nation we reached a tipping point where selfishness and self-interest began to outweigh the greater good. Aided largely by social media, telling people what they want to hear outweighed telling them what they need to know. Collectively we have been our own worst enemy. And while aspects of it are perceived elsewhere too, it remains an open question as to why America has been so much more susceptible to the malady than most other nations and cultures.
I suggest that it's that pesky weaponized First Amendment.
Weaponized First Amendment or weaponized internet?
Is it the medium or the message?
(I realize you have your tongue in your cheek, too.)
Both. The combination is poisonous and way beyond the founder's imaginations.
That's writing off the majority that voted against Trump both times.
We're human, susceptible to human maladies. Our system was built with the presumption of reasoned civic engagement by people with knowledge of the function of the system, and we've endured a great deal of malicious sabotage of our fundamental civics education and principles.
And yet solid majorities have turned up against Trump both times.
It's not indecency as a population, it's complexity and frustration and no small measure of obfuscation by people who profit from either civic disengagement or ignorance.
Maybe so if you see it in purely political terms. My 30,000-foot-level view takes in more than just that. Individual mileage may vary, but overall ours has become a very selfish, materialistic, me-first culture, and the cost has trickled down into the political arena as well. It's okay to say it out loud.
I usually agree wholeheartedly with you Mr D, but I am not so sure we are washed up yet. I am holding my fire until I see what the election brings. I agree that the majority seems to have their heads at least somewhat straight.
And, we as a people are dealing with a lot major change right now. The cultural stuff, gay marriage, transgender, book banning, christian nationalism, etc, etc.
There is bound to be major turmoil as all this is confronted. There has always been a certain % of any population that is too lazy or ignorant or doesn't want to know the truth. It is easier for them to follow the leader, then they do not have to try and figure things out.
I still have some Hopium left.
I hope you are right. My bigger-picture point is less to do with politics and more about the overall nature of change -- which is not always for better. The overriding question is: have our politics made us into who we are, or does who we are determine our politics? I'd argue the latter.
I look around and see so much evolution, for worse, in how we interact with each other and regard others. You are right that much progress has been made on larger-scale cultural issues, and that is important. But little things often serve as a tell too, and on our individual windows to the world. Some examples ... look at how people drive, more and more aggressive than ever. I don't recall road rage being an issue several decades earlier, with all of the flying by at breakneck pace, weaving frequently in and out of traffic, flipping the finger, and otherwise acting like everyone else is in our way. Look at how "discussion" has degenerated in quality in online forums (excepting here, where civility rules) to dumpster fire status. Many sites have done away with comments for just that reasons -- if in doubt read some sports pages on Facebook and elsewhere and see how many people begin to act like teenagers (or younger) at the slightest hint of controversy or difference of opinion. And look at how so many among us dress, wearing clothes out and about that, if they tried to donate them to Goodwill, they would put them into the garbage bin instead. All under the banner of "I don't care what people think, ..." and in service to the self. Taken together, it all says something about who we collectively have become, and it is not a pretty picture.
Thus endeth my sermon for today -- go forth and be righteous, just after our final hymn, number 130 in your book, "Just As I Am."
Politics is an extension of who we are as a culture. The values that inform our culture inform our politics.
Given no countervailing pressures, people tend to be selfish. This is evidenced in what is called the tragedy of the commons, where common resources are abused by selfish individuals.
I was watching a romantic comedy the other day (forget the title, my wife wanted to watch it). It was surprisingly good--not because it was particularly funny (and romance isn't really my thing in literature or movies) but because of the subtext--which was how one of the major characters always turned everything into being all about them.
Our culture and media (and media structures) have made us very self-centered and self-focused. There is minimal care or concern for the community or commons in swathes of our society (and actual anger when common concerns, like the environment, are pointed out).
Through in the death of shame on top of that and you geta toxic brew.
Well said. I agree with you that it is the latter, who we are determines our politics.
The rest of what you said has merit. And I agree with much of it. I know that history may tend to predict a less than favorable outcome of our current situation, such as a complete disintegration of the country as we know it. However we are a unique experiment, and we do have the good fortune of knowing history and how the authoritarians work.
I believe good folk are still the majority. Also so many groups that were formerly kept under society's boot heel now have some power, and visibility. They will not succumb easily nor go quietly. My fingers are crossed, and I say a prayer.
That's the lament of every generation.
Are we truly more self-centered and narcissistic and materialistic than we were during the Gilded Age? The sixties or the eighties?
I look at the kids and I see the usual angst and turmoil, but I don't see the "He who dies with the most toys wins" ethos we had in the eighties.
Yes, I believe we are more selfish and less centered on the common good now. It is a message that has bombarded us more and more with each passing generation. We are no longer shaped by the Great Depression and World War II, with their hardships, rather by the subsequent largely deprivation-free eras running from "I've gotta be me" to "greed is good" to "get yours above all else," with more intensity and less tolerance for dissenting viewpoints from others. The proliferation of affordable technology and social media in particular have done a great deal to enhance that, and in a short amount of time.
I tend to agree with your assessment of the upcoming generation, that they are wired somewhat differently in their priorities. But I suspect that it is a reaction more than an action, as they become aware of how much the previous two to three generations have effed up our society and ecology in the name of indulging themselves. What remains to be seen is whether their version of the "I don't want to be like my parents" mindset is truly a sea change or if it lasts only until they have enough to lose that they see things differently. I truly hope that their anti-materialism bend continues rather than yields to economic realities. They seem more aware than many of us that there is much more to life than getting and holding money.
We have to hope they do act better, as saving the planet will be in their hands.
I hear ya and hope too that they become leaders far more than followers.
That's kind of my point, that we've seen cycles of engagement and disengagement rather than a steady descent, just the regular pulse of society.
Though really we're measuring our personal vibes without data at this point.
It is less about the toys and more intangible (at least with the youth). More centered upon emotions/feelings. This is, I think, a phenomenon of the internet/social media age.
Things were worse during the McCarthy era in the 1950s. And much worse in the 1860s. Remember history. Have a sense of perspective.
That prediction didn’t help him.
Trump needs to be mocked, laughed at, humiliated by VP Harris and goaded into saying what he truly feels and thinks about her. Imagine the possibilities! Keep poking him until he erupts.
Did you call the Code Red?
"You need me on that wall I never built!"
As the late great Colonel Kurtz once said, they go crazy when I talk about him, but he was a great man, a great man, loved the smell of napalm in the morning. But as he used to say, imagine there was a snail on a boat made of razor blades, and there's a shark in the water. Very unfair, very unfair. They don't tell you about the sharks in the media, by the way, but they're sharks and they're in the water. So would the snail rather crawl across the razor blade or be electrocuted with the shark?
Eloquent!
LOL!!!!!
Don, I fully agree that we all need to keep poking and prodding him, but prefer the analogy of exploding, like an over-heated trash bag, spraying his internal garbage over anyone unfortunate enough to be within a blast radius, rather than erupting, since volcanoes can cause death and destruction to anything and anyone over a wide area.
Exploding works! I also changed my original post for VP Harris to take the lead in poking him as a joke and as her INFERIOR. That would be the most effective explosion catalyst.
Not. Whenever there are headwinds from Trump's speech, he inevitably claims it was a joke and our seriously lazy media eat it up.
But I will wager that "Women must be punished" has staying power.
Of course simply trying to pass it off as a joke is not only intellectually dishonest, it also denies that words have impact upon others. If you say it, you own it, as well as the consequences. This should stick to him no less than our words stick to us, in fact more, given the amount of power and influence involved.
The media reports on what it wants to report. Therein lies your problem. They sell controversy to some and reassurance to others. But they are selling all the time which makes money. If Trump was truly dismissed for the charlatan he is, the GOP would have nothing for their invested time. Then, the voters would not watch as much, less ads would sell and less reporters would get that coveted facetime on TV.
Our elections really are transactional at this point. We're the worse for it.
I am wondering why Eggers and Kristol didn’t talk about that.
Nope. It'll be excused, just like everything else.
I am certain that many evangelicals are comfortable with an Iranian style theocracy so long it is under their set of beliefs.
On that note, I think there might be a little daylight there. Evangelicals are very "law and order." His convictions aren't nothing, even though they discount their importance. And they've gotten everything they wanted from Trump (overturning Roe). And Trump's behavior has always made them uncomfortable. (They do the "we're electing a President, not a pastor" thing, which isn't exactly an endorsement.)
They'll vote for him in droves, if they vote at all, and maybe that's the key. They might sit it out because he's just so awful and JD is just so weird.
I hope there are enough of them sitting this out. But then I see some get so upset by the drag version of the last supper at the Olympics opening ceremony and use this as an excuse to vote for the Orange menace.
His style lends itself to this, right?! He might respond, "The left will say I'm calling off the 2028 election, but I'm just saying I won't be running in that election so I won't be asking you to vote." And he gets free media in some spaces.
I would like to see someone attack him on these rambling rants...if you have to be a member of the cult to understand him, then he cannot be POTUS for all citizens. There are too many important issues for us to be digging around in our Frosted Flakes boxes for a decoder ring!
That was no gaffe.
He is telling them what they want to hear (theocracy)
and in turn showing us (once again) who he is and what he will do to
get back into the W.H.
WHEN THE F*&% ARE WE GOING TO ACTUALLY BELIEVE HIM???
We've been waiting for these gaffes for eight years but it never moves the needle. The skeptic in me says this won't either.
That's where I think we need to borrow from Reagan. "There you go again..."
Getting in an uproar over it doesn't work. Maybe bemused exasperation combined with a does of, "He either means it, can't control himself, or is deliberately winding you media types up."
Great point! It is funny how humor can totally be disarming.That line from Reagan at Carter and then the one aimed at Mondale about his youth and inexperience. Just brilliant! But they can't seem rehearsed.
That's why I think this "He's so weird" strategy will yield better dividends.
He writes everything off as a joke (I thought busting on McCain would finish him, then the Gold Star family fiasco, by Planet Hollywood nothing really surprised me anymore) but weirdness? That one he can't shake.
Online I've read some tortured explanations: e.g. There are Christians who don't vote as a doctrinal matter. Trump wants them to vote "just this once" so that they will be free never to have to vote again. That is, Trump was courting Don't vote voters.
I don't know, it's only a couple of percent crazier than inviting Hulk Hogan to be the Best Man at the wedding of Donald Trump and JD Vance.
To me, it is very explainable, just like the mountain of similar examples from him. The problem is the mountain. He keeps doing this and keeps doing it all one way. That means they aren't momentary gaffs. At best, he's trolling. At worst....
I would tell people, "No way I'm taking a chance on a guy who called for terminating the Constitution. No one else does that, no one else jokes that way, and there's a GD good reason for that. Now, you want to show me where Harris wants to terminate the Constitution, be a dictator, pardon people I watched attack cops, eliminate voting, etc. and I'll listen. Otherwise, no thanks on Trump."
It could be. If MSM would take it up as seriously as they took up Biden's age. Otherwise, just more sh*t flooding the zone.
Nothing in the newspapers about it, but that's baked in. CEOs are scrambling to provide cover. They won't be able to keep it up until November.