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knowltok's avatar

I don't know why someone as unconventional as Trump would feel bound to JD.

I'm not saying it would improve things for him, but on the other hand, when you are losing (and he may think he is) flipping the board seems more and more attractive (for a man with no honor).

I do think I'd shift the attacks on JD to include Trump specifically. "This is the kind of pick made by someone who has clearly lost a step." Define it as a poor decision from the start, not something that Trump can try to clean up as learning new info and course correcting.

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dcicero's avatar

Very much agree.

It ought to be Harris making the attack you suggest, questioning Trump's judgement in choosing him. But it should be the surrogates directly attacking Vance on his general weirdness, odd views and prior positions. She should NEVER punch down. She needs to go straight at Trump, every day. Leave attacking his lackey to others.

And it would be entertaining to see him kick over the table in a snit, leaving his campaign to clean up the mess. It'd be so in-character for him. Wonder if it will happen!

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knowltok's avatar

Yep. Harris could say, "I'm sorry, but JD is a poor pick from Trump which highlights his poor judgement. He's inexperienced and has a multitude of positions that alienate voters. Did Trump not know or care that JD wants no rape exception? Did Trump not know or care that JD is hyper focused on women's fertility?" etc.

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dcicero's avatar

I might even recommend a more indirect approach.

"Well, JD's a weird guy. Might be something to ask Trump about, but, really, his history of choosing "the best people" is not that great. How many people in his orbit have been indicted? How many have done prison time? How many did he fire shortly after hiring them? He's just not good at this and the choice of JD seems be be more of the same."

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knowltok's avatar

Good one. Add in all the ones he's had that have come out to say how bad he is.

"A person can claim they are good at picking people, but reality is where we go for truth on something like that."

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dcicero's avatar

There are so many variations on the same theme:

Guys like Rex Tillerson, whom he called brilliant when he brought him in and then "dumb as a rock" after he fired him.

Guys who quit because they couldn't work for him. Great when hired, dumb when fired.

Guys he praised who then wound up in jail.

The list is long.

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knowltok's avatar

And if he dumps JD, the ads are going to be going out like a tidal wave.

(points below are made up and aren't percentage points, just scoring points)

He's mostly screwed with JD right now. Stick with him, -10 points. Replace him and 30% chance of +5 points and 70% chance of -20 points.

The only way that works for him is if -10 points is enough to cost him the election. In that case, any chance of a positive movement is worth taking. Of course what it says about a leader that puts himself in such a position in the first place....

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Douglas Peterson's avatar

Oh, sorry, knowltok. I lost the thread when you brought in the math.

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knowltok's avatar

Chevy Chase has entered the chat!

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Danielle NJ's avatar

right--remember Trump stated that Doug might be an issue b/c he signed a strict abortion law in ND.

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dcicero's avatar

And there’s one other thing. A lot of people LIKE JD. Check out the comments on this video. When I saw the video, I thought the commenters would be ridiculing these guys, but no!

https://youtu.be/Q-mWdyexcbA?si=90RrmO3KVklKbiLi

The commenters are 100% favorable toward him, think this will trigger the libs and found it brilliant. These people are out there.

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steve robertshaw's avatar

But I'm not sure those people are the semi-mythical 'swing voters'.

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Douglas Peterson's avatar

Absolutely. I've many right-wing Catholic family members who mentioned to me directly they like Vance's stand on abortion and "traditional family."

They've been waiting for someone like JD and prefer him to Trump (not that they would admit to any complaint about Trump to me).

I've never watched the Dukes of Hazard, but if I had to pick one Trump ad to watch in my "re-education camp" prison cell, this would probably be it.

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Laura Lipetz's avatar

The Washington Post did a piece today on Vance’s conversion to Catholicism in 2019, after being an evangelical, then atheist. He loves the pre- Vatican church…which is the now leaning conservative church ,complete with the Latin mass, et al. I grew up in that but was fortunate to be associated and worked throughout my life with the great social justice priests and church of the 60’s and 70’s which has died out. Much of the church, itself, is fighting Francis. Opus Dei, the far right of the church, origins in France, heavily associated with by Heritage Foundation, and Supreme Court Justices.

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Douglas Peterson's avatar

I identify with your past, Laura, and especially with a reverence for those priests who worked and sacrificed their lives to bring aid to those suffering from oppressive and unjust regimes.

Vance's chameleon-like connection to religions seems just like his connections to politics. I haven't read the WP article, so thanks for the reference. I would think that Democratic researchers would be able to write a strong offense for Harris and her surrogates to help deflate any growing appeal JD is gaining among the "integralism" believers who are working against Francis.

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Laura Lipetz's avatar

Within the Vatican, itself, it is filled with conservatives who are blatantly opposed to Francis. One has been excommunicated by Francis. There is so much going on with American bishops who oppose Francis’ social agenda, especially as it pertains to third world Catholics , LBGT, divorce, and the list goes on. The former pope, Benedict, had an opposition group doing his work against Francis while Benedict was still alive, but retired. There is so much within the top levels. Read the reasons which attract Vance. Same as those cardinals and bishops who are so against Francis’ world view. The point is that our politics and religious forces lean very right…and have enormous influence in this country.

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Danielle NJ's avatar

I agree with your last thought and then combining with other bad decisions/gut instincts like COVID will disappear, Doha Agreement, etc.:

I do think I'd shift the attacks on JD to include Trump specifically. "This is the kind of pick made by someone who has clearly lost a step." Define it as a poor decision from the start, not something that Trump can try to clean up as learning new info and course correcting.

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Paul K. Ogden's avatar

Totally agree. Trump would throw JD Vance under the bus in a heartbeat. And I could see him making that phone call to his son. I'm not 100% sure it won't happen. If he could force JD Vance off the ticket now, he'd replace her with Nikki Haley. Can't stand Haley, but she would be a 1000 times better than Vance when it comes to campaigning.

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