This D-Day is a good reminder that the growing nationalist movement across the globe aims to undermine the alliance between free and democratic countries.
You can see how these seniors sending their social security checks to Trump get radicalized. They wake up and turn on Fox and Friends, then they have talk radio on in the background all day while doing chores, then they put on The Five, maybe get a little straight news from Bret Baier, and then watch the Fox primetime opinion shows. Rinse, wash, repeat: every day. And it's all designed to make them angry. As Adam said, it's a sad way to spend one's retirement.
Great conversation- judging by content, Biden has the right tone and did well representing us for the anniversary.
I was confused when Tim and Adam brought up Elian Gonzalez. I recalled it had nothing to do with deportation and illegal immigration. It was that Gonzalez’s mom died during their trip from Cuba, and the Clinton Admin was sending him to his father in Cuba. Believe the kid’s family wanted to keep him in FL and was really upset Janet Reno ordered law enforcement to take him back.
I think the point was irony: In the case of Elian Gonzalez, the right wanted the orphaned minor to be granted asylum in the US, but today they want to end DACA and deport unaccompanied minors. It's just another example of how Trump has turned the meaning of conservatism upside down.
Since Gonzalez is from Cuba, I wonder if he would have qualified for wet feet dry feet policy and did not need asylum had his mom not perished at sea. But Republicans rarely believe in what they sell.
The comments by both Tim and Adam about the willing acceptance of any lie about Trump reminded me of a quote I read this week:
“I began to comprehend it did not matter so much what he said, but how he said it. In such an atmosphere, every lie pronounced is accepted as high truth itself.”
Love me some Adam K. I am with Adam, Tim and Nick Catoggio that Biden is better than Trump even if Biden's policies are (quite) sub optimal. Here is to hoping the Dems get smarter quicker.
80-100 year cycles. People who saw the horrors of fascism first hand are all gone and we did a piss poor job of teaching people about it.
If Trump’s guys leak some info there’s a chance they are committing treason right? But ya know, doesn’t matter if they control the right levers of power…these people aren’t in it for the money - the true believers are autocrats and like most fascists are immature shits playing make believe - except a lot of people get killed or harmed in the process :/
In spite of my disagreement with Tim and Adam re Reagan, I agreed with most of their comments. I always find Adam to be sincere, thoughtful, and thought-provoking. I’m very glad he’s onboard at The Bulwark!
Kinzinger with his observation of tearing families apart, this is so true, My Vietnam veteran father and his wife are angrier than they have ever been and our family distances themselves, they should be spending their golden years with family, but express hatred if we do not agree with their views and support republicans. My father taught us to love this country and is proud of his service, it is so discouraging to see his American Legion play Fox News constantly, his friend group is all radicalized, it is very depressing. I know him and know he would support Ukraine if he had accurate news, he respected and loved my husband who is a Desert Storm combat veteran but now has lost this relationship due to the misinformation. There is a great Substack written “Daddy died a MAGA” so many families are going through this, heartbreaking on a personal level and catastrophic for democracy.
I think this is the reality of the GOP today. Most Republicans are not white nationalist racist authoritarians. They are just badly informed people whose minds have been taken over by disinformation designed to play on their fears.
A family member stated they figured our child’s HIGH SCHOOL graduation was going to be cancelled because of protests. We live in a very MAGA area and she lives down the street. She knows there are no protests in our small town. They poisoned our loved ones minds from wanting to participate in monumental life moments.
Trump is the anti-Reagan. He is literally the opposite of Reagan in every way. Policy-wise, Trump has more in common with Obama and Biden than with Reagan.
They rode waves of white resentment into the white house, denied climate, ignored a pandemic, did arms deals in contravention of congress, appointed (well in Reagan's case tried to) whackjobs to SCOTUS, were famously hands off about policy, had dementia...
On Mike Johnson appointing the two stooges to the Intelligence Committee, I’m wondering if that was Trump’s big “ask” when Johnson met with Trump the weekend before putting the Ukraine funding bill on the floor for a vote.
Please. Obama was a bad President. His foreign policy an utter disaster, one might even say a disgrace. Reagan had a vision of how to win the Cold War and what do you know, he was exactly right. Obama was wrong on the early pull out of Iraq, wrong on Syria, wrong on Russia and wrong (so so so so wrong) on Iran. Other than that, how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln.
He should have been held responsible for Iran/Contra. Or the crack epidemic. Or the AIDS epidemic. Or the popular contempt for “the government”. But he was a Republican, so we had to baby him. Great President.
Uh huh. The Soviet union collapsed because it was hollow and Gorbachev believed that he could return to true Leninism to fill it out. Reagan had nothing to do with it.
The Soviet Union would eventually have collapsed under its own weight, but that collapse was not imminent. Reagan sped up the process by at least a decade.
Maybe or they could have selected a hawkish General Secretary that would respond to Reagan with full on Stalinism in '85. I was two at the time and certainly am not familiar enough with the members of the Politburo to say how it would have gone but from what I have read Gorbachev is the key actor.
It has nothing to do with personnel - the Soviet apparatchiks were mostly interchangeable. The problem was that communism was not a workable economic system in the long run - that's why it would have failed eventually. By forcing Moscow to ramp up its military industrial efforts to compete with the US buildup, Reagan exposed and exploited that weakness. The Soviet economy could not handle that added strain. That was why Gorbachev felt he had to institute perestroika, but but his perestroika turned out to be too little too late to save the Soviet Union.
Ok or he was a doddering idiot racist that almost caused a nuclear war. If you want to give credit to anyone from the administration I guess Schultz qualifies.
I voted for both of them every time I could, so obviously I liked them both. A lot. But I'm basically a Republican at heart, and you apparently are a Democrat. I can get by that to evaluate them past my personal prejudices. That you apparently can't is your problem. Good luck with it.
It’s hard to compare because of partisanship. The difference in partisanship is huge between the two.
Combine that with one was black but I’m sorry I think we have to give it to Obama. Being a black president in 2010 compared to a white Republican in the 80s leads me to believe it was Obama. Combine that with Regan’s later years (you can’t delete what he was like the last 2 years) definitely Obama
That sounds better. But "Teddy", as in Roosevelt? He was certainly vigorous if you like that sort of thing, but it's a matter of taste. Between him and Reagan I think that both his cousin FDR and Kennedy were better orators. but again, now we're talking taste, and there's no right or wrong. 😃
You can see how these seniors sending their social security checks to Trump get radicalized. They wake up and turn on Fox and Friends, then they have talk radio on in the background all day while doing chores, then they put on The Five, maybe get a little straight news from Bret Baier, and then watch the Fox primetime opinion shows. Rinse, wash, repeat: every day. And it's all designed to make them angry. As Adam said, it's a sad way to spend one's retirement.
I would love to see a Kinzinger vs. Buttigieg Presidential race. What a world away this would be from where we are now...!
I hate to sound self important but that sounds better than winning the power ball jackpot.
Is that because they would be two good choices ?
Great conversation- judging by content, Biden has the right tone and did well representing us for the anniversary.
I was confused when Tim and Adam brought up Elian Gonzalez. I recalled it had nothing to do with deportation and illegal immigration. It was that Gonzalez’s mom died during their trip from Cuba, and the Clinton Admin was sending him to his father in Cuba. Believe the kid’s family wanted to keep him in FL and was really upset Janet Reno ordered law enforcement to take him back.
I think the point was irony: In the case of Elian Gonzalez, the right wanted the orphaned minor to be granted asylum in the US, but today they want to end DACA and deport unaccompanied minors. It's just another example of how Trump has turned the meaning of conservatism upside down.
Since Gonzalez is from Cuba, I wonder if he would have qualified for wet feet dry feet policy and did not need asylum had his mom not perished at sea. But Republicans rarely believe in what they sell.
Can we make Kinzinger the regular Monday guest? Sorry, Bill Kristol.
Keep Bill !
Better yet: Give Adam Kinzinger his own weekly podcast!
The comments by both Tim and Adam about the willing acceptance of any lie about Trump reminded me of a quote I read this week:
“I began to comprehend it did not matter so much what he said, but how he said it. In such an atmosphere, every lie pronounced is accepted as high truth itself.”
William Shirer on Adolf Hitler.
I’m sorry. But the idolization of Ronald Reagan is part of the problem that we have now. It makes me roll my eyes.
YESSS! I hear you Adam! You described my elderly father. I hadn't thought of it that way but you're right- it is a type of elder abuse.
We'll never know how much my Alzheimer's-ridden mother sent Trump before my sister took away the checkbook.
I need a sad emoji.
Love me some Adam K. I am with Adam, Tim and Nick Catoggio that Biden is better than Trump even if Biden's policies are (quite) sub optimal. Here is to hoping the Dems get smarter quicker.
80-100 year cycles. People who saw the horrors of fascism first hand are all gone and we did a piss poor job of teaching people about it.
If Trump’s guys leak some info there’s a chance they are committing treason right? But ya know, doesn’t matter if they control the right levers of power…these people aren’t in it for the money - the true believers are autocrats and like most fascists are immature shits playing make believe - except a lot of people get killed or harmed in the process :/
In spite of my disagreement with Tim and Adam re Reagan, I agreed with most of their comments. I always find Adam to be sincere, thoughtful, and thought-provoking. I’m very glad he’s onboard at The Bulwark!
Would love to see Kinzinger in CO!!!!
Kinzinger with his observation of tearing families apart, this is so true, My Vietnam veteran father and his wife are angrier than they have ever been and our family distances themselves, they should be spending their golden years with family, but express hatred if we do not agree with their views and support republicans. My father taught us to love this country and is proud of his service, it is so discouraging to see his American Legion play Fox News constantly, his friend group is all radicalized, it is very depressing. I know him and know he would support Ukraine if he had accurate news, he respected and loved my husband who is a Desert Storm combat veteran but now has lost this relationship due to the misinformation. There is a great Substack written “Daddy died a MAGA” so many families are going through this, heartbreaking on a personal level and catastrophic for democracy.
I think this is the reality of the GOP today. Most Republicans are not white nationalist racist authoritarians. They are just badly informed people whose minds have been taken over by disinformation designed to play on their fears.
A family member stated they figured our child’s HIGH SCHOOL graduation was going to be cancelled because of protests. We live in a very MAGA area and she lives down the street. She knows there are no protests in our small town. They poisoned our loved ones minds from wanting to participate in monumental life moments.
I’ve given up talking to my dad about politics. I make a mistake every 5 years and I’m like “why did I do that.”
It's disastrous.
It's darkly humorous that you start with praise of Reagan since he was the progenitor of Trump.
Trump is the anti-Reagan. He is literally the opposite of Reagan in every way. Policy-wise, Trump has more in common with Obama and Biden than with Reagan.
They rode waves of white resentment into the white house, denied climate, ignored a pandemic, did arms deals in contravention of congress, appointed (well in Reagan's case tried to) whackjobs to SCOTUS, were famously hands off about policy, had dementia...
Did Adam Kinzinger move to Texas? Tim keeps referring to Texas as "his" state all of a sudden.
Yes he announced that months ago…….. hope he stays safe there
I wondered why…
Hope he can do some good there!
Too hot for me. And their government is truly awful.
There’s Red Texas(exurban, some suburban, rural) and Blue Texas(urban, some suburban).
💯- that’s why it usually takes an hour drive even from cities of deep blue states to find the most fervent MAGA followers.
Very true
I live in a blue bubble myself in a red state, seems to be the trend
Thanks. Weird. I hope he does, too.
Really weird
On Mike Johnson appointing the two stooges to the Intelligence Committee, I’m wondering if that was Trump’s big “ask” when Johnson met with Trump the weekend before putting the Ukraine funding bill on the floor for a vote.
It was
What is Kinzinger talking about? Nobody is Reagan?
Obama is twice the orator that Reagan ever was...
Come on man, put aside the partisan hat at least once.
Please. Obama was a bad President. His foreign policy an utter disaster, one might even say a disgrace. Reagan had a vision of how to win the Cold War and what do you know, he was exactly right. Obama was wrong on the early pull out of Iraq, wrong on Syria, wrong on Russia and wrong (so so so so wrong) on Iran. Other than that, how did you like the play Mrs. Lincoln.
He should have been held responsible for Iran/Contra. Or the crack epidemic. Or the AIDS epidemic. Or the popular contempt for “the government”. But he was a Republican, so we had to baby him. Great President.
Uh huh. The Soviet union collapsed because it was hollow and Gorbachev believed that he could return to true Leninism to fill it out. Reagan had nothing to do with it.
The Soviet Union would eventually have collapsed under its own weight, but that collapse was not imminent. Reagan sped up the process by at least a decade.
Maybe or they could have selected a hawkish General Secretary that would respond to Reagan with full on Stalinism in '85. I was two at the time and certainly am not familiar enough with the members of the Politburo to say how it would have gone but from what I have read Gorbachev is the key actor.
It has nothing to do with personnel - the Soviet apparatchiks were mostly interchangeable. The problem was that communism was not a workable economic system in the long run - that's why it would have failed eventually. By forcing Moscow to ramp up its military industrial efforts to compete with the US buildup, Reagan exposed and exploited that weakness. The Soviet economy could not handle that added strain. That was why Gorbachev felt he had to institute perestroika, but but his perestroika turned out to be too little too late to save the Soviet Union.
Ok or he was a doddering idiot racist that almost caused a nuclear war. If you want to give credit to anyone from the administration I guess Schultz qualifies.
What does policy have to do with being an orator?
It's a lot easier to sound like you know what you're talking about when you actually know what you're talking about.
Obama was a better off-the-cuff speaker than Reagan, at least in Reagan's later years, but nobody could put a prepared speech over better than Reagan.
So Reagan has better speech writers? Lol
Also, speaking is all about off the cuff speaking. Prepared speeches are much easier to deliver than off the cuff stuff.
It's not like obama's prepared speeches were chopped liver.
I voted for both of them every time I could, so obviously I liked them both. A lot. But I'm basically a Republican at heart, and you apparently are a Democrat. I can get by that to evaluate them past my personal prejudices. That you apparently can't is your problem. Good luck with it.
It’s hard to compare because of partisanship. The difference in partisanship is huge between the two.
Combine that with one was black but I’m sorry I think we have to give it to Obama. Being a black president in 2010 compared to a white Republican in the 80s leads me to believe it was Obama. Combine that with Regan’s later years (you can’t delete what he was like the last 2 years) definitely Obama
I don't follow. My prejudice is why I think off the cuff speeches are harder?
I never said Reagan was bad at speeches. He was really good. Probably top 3 since we have audio of speeches.
I think Obama is the best overall orator we've had since Teddy.
That sounds better. But "Teddy", as in Roosevelt? He was certainly vigorous if you like that sort of thing, but it's a matter of taste. Between him and Reagan I think that both his cousin FDR and Kennedy were better orators. but again, now we're talking taste, and there's no right or wrong. 😃