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Transcript
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SPEAKER 4
Maybe you need to have that fight. Is Donald Trump going to shut down Congress for Tulsi Gabbard? Maybe we need to find out. Maybe we need to make him do that in the early days so people can understand how serious he is about abusing his power.
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SPEAKER 2
Hello and welcome to the Bullard Podcast. I'm your host, Tim Miller. A couple notes before we get to our favorite weekend guest. For the newbies on Fridays, I have a playlist on Spotify and a super fan has also mirrored it on Apple that include the songs, the sad songs I've been playing you.
0:41
to try to get you to cry at the end of the episodes the last two weeks. So for the people who have been asking, just go down to the show notes and you can get that playlist. Also, yesterday's guest, Rick Wilson, said something about Matt Gaetz and a dead person in his dorm room.

Ted Cruz and Jim DeMint ground things to a halt in the Senate quite effectively during the Obama era, and Democrats should take a cue from them for Trump's appointments: Demand hearings or hold their own. More broadly, the opposition has to be loud and make a scene, while also staying unified and focused. We are a big country with big ideas, and there are more of us than there are of them.


Amanda Carpenter joins Tim Miller for the weekend pod.

show notes
Part 1 of the "Behind the Bastards" podcast on RFK, Jr.

Tim's playlist

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Nathan's avatar

Made some themes. Didn't have a chance to remove the markdown:

Here’s a strategic guide to messaging and actions focusing on **federal workers, immigration, the rule of law, and justice**, tailored to resonate with broader audiences and embolden anti-Trump Republicans:

---

### **1. Federal Workers: Protecting Public Servants**

**Theme**: *“Defending the Backbone of American Government”*

- **Message**:

- *“Federal workers serve every American, regardless of politics. They process your Social Security, keep our food safe, and protect our national security. Targeting them is an attack on the services we all rely on.”*

- Highlight Trump’s history of undermining public servants and politicizing their roles.

- *“The government shouldn’t become a political weapon. We must protect the integrity and neutrality of public service.”*

- **Action Plan**:

- **Rally Support**: Host town halls or webinars with former federal workers to share their experiences and the risks of political targeting.

- **Messaging Campaign**: Use social media to tell stories of federal workers who’ve helped communities (e.g., FEMA during disasters, CDC during COVID).

- **Legislative Push**: Advocate for laws protecting whistleblowers and insulating federal agencies from partisan manipulation.

- **Appeal to Anti-Trump Republicans**:

- *“Do you want a government that works for the people—or one that serves only the president’s friends and punishes his enemies? Standing up for federal workers means standing up for fairness and accountability.”*

---

### **2. Immigration: Balanced Policies Respecting Law and Humanity**

**Theme**: *“Fairness and Humanity at Our Borders”*

- **Message**:

- *“Immigration policy should be about safety and fairness, not fear and political theater. Using the military to patrol our neighborhoods is a dangerous overreach.”*

- Expose abuses like separating families and deporting legal residents, framing them as betrayals of American values.

- *“Real security comes from smart, lawful policies, not turning our military into a police force or sowing division among neighbors.”*

- **Action Plan**:

- **Spotlight Legal Abuses**: Share stories of immigrants or legal residents who’ve been unfairly targeted, emphasizing shared values like family and justice.

- **Engage Faith Leaders**: Many Republicans are guided by faith. Encourage clergy to speak out about the moral failings of inhumane policies.

- **Promote Alternatives**: Advocate for policies like improved visa processes and border technology that enhance security without harming communities.

- **Appeal to Anti-Trump Republicans**:

- *“Immigration isn’t about left or right—it’s about doing the right thing. Let’s demand policies that honor our nation’s values without compromising security.”*

---

### **3. Rule of Law: Standing Against Pardons and Politicized Investigations**

**Theme**: *“Justice for All, Not Just the Powerful”*

- **Message**:

- *“Pardoning violent rioters or targeting critics sends a message that the law only protects Trump’s allies. That’s not justice—it’s corruption.”*

- Emphasize the dangerous precedent of weaponizing investigations: *“If it happens to them today, it could happen to you tomorrow.”*

- *“The rule of law isn’t about politics. It’s the foundation of freedom.”*

- **Action Plan**:

- **Public Education**: Create explainer videos or infographics detailing how pardons for January 6th rioters undermine the justice system.

- **Support Targets of Abuse**: Rally legal aid and public support for those unfairly investigated or punished.

- **Expose Injustice**: Highlight cases of blatant cronyism, like RFK Jr.’s nomination or abusive pardons, framing them as threats to everyone’s rights.

- **Appeal to Anti-Trump Republicans**:

- *“The GOP has always stood for law and order. Let’s not throw that away for one man’s agenda. Upholding justice means protecting the principles that make America strong.”*

---

### **4. Justice: Upholding Fairness Over Partisanship**

**Theme**: *“Justice Must Be Blind, Not Loyal”*

- **Message**:

- *“Justice fails when it serves political power over the people. Let’s demand fair investigations, impartial judges, and independent law enforcement.”*

- Call out actions like the appointment of unqualified loyalists (e.g., Matt Gaetz) as direct threats to the judiciary.

- *“True justice protects every citizen equally. Anything less is un-American.”*

- **Action Plan**:

- **Expose Cronyism**: Publicize the qualifications (or lack thereof) of Trump’s appointees, comparing them to historical standards.

- **Organize Watchdog Groups**: Monitor judicial nominations and challenge unqualified candidates publicly.

- **Community Outreach**: Partner with bipartisan organizations to hold forums on the importance of judicial independence.

- **Appeal to Anti-Trump Republicans**:

- *“The GOP should lead on fair and impartial justice. Compromising these values for temporary political gain weakens our country.”*

---

### **Strategies to Strengthen Republican Resistance**

1. **Frame Resistance as Loyalty to Conservative Principles**:

- Emphasize that opposing Trump’s abuses is about preserving the core Republican values of law, order, and limited government.

2. **Promote Role Models**:

- Highlight Republicans who’ve stood up to Trump (e.g., Liz Cheney, Mitt Romney) as principled leaders protecting the party’s integrity.

3. **Create Safe Spaces for Dissent**:

- Establish anonymous platforms or private forums for Republicans hesitant to speak out publicly.

4. **Encourage Action, Not Silence**:

- *“History remembers those who stood on principle. Be the Republican who chose country over party when it mattered most.”*

---

Would you like help crafting specific messaging campaigns or outreach plans around any of these themes?

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David Avery's avatar

People are allowed to change

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Jeff Smith's avatar

Yay Amanda!

I like Amanda's parsing of what we don't like about Trump 2.0 into two broad areas (as I understood her)...

1. Things that are policies we don't like, sometimes because they are really reprehensible and morally bankrupt, and are likely to lead to actions that are outside the pale, but which in and of themselves are legal. An example would be a draconian border policy.

2. The things that are actually outside the pale--illegal or unconstitutional. An example would be using the military to execute a draconian border policy.

The first group are policy disagreements; the second group is actions that undermine the legal basis of the republic. Not keeping these these two types of harm separate risks having voters start to conflate them...many Americans believe stricter immigration controls are needed. That shouldn't lead to them normalizing using the US military against US citizens.

Tim, I agree that maybe doing the hand-off without smiling was a better plan. Maybe refuse to shake hands. Certainly don't have Jill attend.

And, I'm in for some vermin, or enemy within, or fifth column merch.

Along with some commenters before me, I suugest folks go back to the punk rock well. Get the genuine article. Sex Pistols. The Clash. Social Distortion. Talking Heads. It's like orange juice. It's like everything you've ever known that's good for you.

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Byron White's avatar

No one has inspired me more or given me greater hope than Amanda has! I’m listening to this late but I will be reaching out to her!

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Johnson Roberts's avatar

Hey Tume & Bulwarkers — Another great session with Amanda, and I’m gonna break down and read Amanda &/Company’s Authoritarian Playbook. It’s comforting to hear from fellow (real) patriots and I truly appreciate the mission and Bulwark’s unstoppable commitment. But it’s not enough for me and I’m going to ask same question I asked at the live SF session earlier this year.

How/where can we (or I) get more hands-on involved? Real time, real work beyond talking, persuading & influencing. I do all this but that’s not enough. Experienced professional (or rookie depending on the job), and I’m willing to take a sabbatical to make a difference This is serious shit and for my kid’s future sake and for my own sanity I need to do more, but not sure what …

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Andy K's avatar

I disagree with parts of the criticisms of Biden. I agree in part that I don't think he should show any ways to normalize it. But Biden was elected to reestablish norms and he did that time and time again. Biden could have done more, but so could a lot of people who actively enabled Trump. As a country, we asked Biden to unilaterally save us from ourselves and failed to hold up our end of the bargain.

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VStanhope's avatar

This is the most constructive "Where do we go from here?" conversation I've heard since the election... by far.

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David Avery's avatar

I have agreed with Amanda 99.99%of the time for 6 years She is smart, concise, and understands the threat. More all caps Amanda! However,. whatever band she was talking about is not better than Talking Heads ( that's right, no the) Watch the Stop Making Sense doc. You'll see

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Sean's avatar

Without question "the Paramore cover of Burning Down the House is better than the Talking Heads version" is the worst take I've ever heard Amanda give.

Though I cringe every time she reminds us that she was deeply involved in some of Ted Cruz's greatest hits and helping the GOP steal a Supreme Court seat.

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dcicero's avatar

Re: "Also, yesterday's guest, Rick Wilson, said something about Matt Gaetz and a dead person in his dorm room. I did not know what he was referencing and did some Googling after. There didn't really seem to be any evidence of that out there. There was a Snopes item on it. So, look, there are plenty of things to criticize Matt Gaetz on without getting into conspiracy land. We're going to try to be reality-based here at The Bulwark."

So... Does that mean no more Rick Wilson on Bulwark podcasts?

He's been on Michael Steele's podcast several times. He said changing from Joe Biden to anyone else would be an impossibility. That didn't age well. Then, the next time, he was over the moon about how great Kamala Harris was, which is true, but he forgot to mention his prior take. The next time, after her loss, he dissected the failures of the Harris campaign. He was able to say that things are easy to see in hindsight, but he didn't mention how completely wrong HE was or why. And now this, peddling some weird story about a dead body in Matt Gaetz' dorm room for which there appears no evidence.

I mean ... why? I sent money to The Lincoln Project several times. I supported them from the beginning. Then they had their scandal -- about which Rick Wilson said on The Breakdown, a Lincoln Project production, he would "name names" when the time was right, but never did -- and I stuck with them. Then the documentary came out and I was still kinda on board. But now, I just can't anymore. I'm actually sorry about that because Rick's Rants are my rants, but it's really looking like The Lincoln Project is the grift a lot of people thought it was and I feel like a mark.

Am I wrong?

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Sean's avatar

I think even Rick Wilson would admit that he is looking out for Rick Wilson first, and everyone else later.

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Kate  Halstead's avatar

Tim, I’ll take an Enemy Within hoodie. I’ve been trying to promote that as the moniker for our coalition. It projects the IDGAF two finger salute attitude that’ll be required for the next four years (even when it’s hard to feel it) - AKA the punk rock spirit, as per Amanda.

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Pro Democracy1965's avatar

Interesting show as usual. Thanks for your continued work.

While the idea of enemies within swag is funny, I don't think this is productive in this disinformation war and may even be counter-productive. I would like to offer the alternative phrase "Patriots Within" because Trump calls "Patriots Within" "Enemies Within."

It is an inherent critical requirement in a system of freedom and human rights through democracy, like ours, for the media to speak truth to power and the people. As result, speaking truth to power and to the people is an inherently patriotic act. Suppressing truth, spreading lies and perpetrating a divide and conquer disinformation strategy is inherently anti-patriotic. Therefore it follows that when Trump and his co-conspirators attack and claim that they seek to jail those in the media speaking truth to power and the people, he is inherently attacking some of our Patriots Within.

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Jeffrey Gaines's avatar

Let’s be clear about how the electorate spoke this past election:

They (the unsilent majority) said very clearly that character does not matter.

Truthfulness doesn’t matter.

Compassion toward your fellow humans, including legal immigrants, does not matter.

Stealing things from work (classified things, boxes and boxes of them no less!) doesn’t matter.

Speaking of women and people of color in the most demeaning and disgusting terms possible does not matter.

Sedition, however flagrant and televised, does not matter.

Whether or not women and girls will be forced to bear their rapists’ babies does not matter.

Nor does women and girls bleeding out and entering septic shock because DJTs handpicked court threw out Roe and now states are back to 1860s laws dominating women and girls’ bodies.

All that matters is your (white or light) skin color.

All that matters is your (male) gender.

All that matters is the letter (R) by your name in the ballot.

And if you can throw in blatant and sickening violence towards groups you fear and hate, that meets voters approval too.

We cannot normalize DJT, or his voters.

And even if in the grand scheme of things one voter does not matter much, I will never normalize and of the above, and I’ll never bend the knee. Perhaps our sense of justice, dignity and our need to resist tyranny and injustice are all we have left. Better to lose the whole world, than you own soul. Thank you Bulwark, for keeping your soul in these dark times. We shall overcome.

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Mirabelle's avatar

Anger activation and time to fight -- I'd suggest simmer down and hold your horses. The fighting of the last decade proved so ineffective that things got worse. It didn't even hold the line. Going off half-cocked without a proper reanalysis means more failure. People sometimes mistake feeling emotions for doing something. Admitting you were wrong and trying something new leads to success.

First, we must unite the country. Only our enemies benefit from our polarization. So does the fighting help reunite the country? It's not about success of the parts, but the whole. If all someone can do is get points for their side, they're not really helping the needs of the moment. They must be good enough and smart enough to create consensus. Be an American, not a side.

Second, don't start off with assumptions. The assumptions have been wrong for a decade. Wait and see, and respond to actual events, not suspected events.

Third, fight corruption, not political differences. Political differences are allowed.

Fourth, empower norms. Remember why they exist and what their purpose accomplishes.

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Greg Pryor's avatar

Thank you Amanda! We need your fighting punk rock spirit!

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julia dream's avatar

I still haven't emptied my six-pack of JVL's deep dark. IMO there will be NO change in attitude until and unless the worst excesses come to Average America. Until and unless there is violence, no one will take the dire predictions seriously. I would not "rally around" actions until there are -- as Amanda calls it -- painful outcomes. No one cares about soft impressions like "corruption" or "Constitutional crisis." When there's blood, people will pay attention. I wish it weren't so.

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CarlaH's avatar

The photos of the Bidens welcoming the Fall of America into the White House made me sick. There is nothing "normal" about the Trump dictatorship and it looks like the most abject prostration to invite the destroyer in before the cameras to smile and shake hands, knowing what he intends to do to America. I don't know what I'd have done myself - as Amanda and Tim say - just the bare minimum. One stern-faced photo, knowing that it will be in history books (in other countries if not in the US) as the beginning of the end.

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Julie's avatar

Awesome episode. We need Amanda as a regular to continue to build resolve and direction! Thank you!

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Beverly Aquino's avatar

Maybe I'm fighting over the "peas" on the table, but raw numbers/percentages on the popular vote do not a mandate make. I'm tired of people saying Trump has a mandate, that's giving him a hall pass and I don't buy. He beat Harris by 2.6mil votes (76.4 vs 73.7). Biden had a MANDATE - 7mil vote difference (81.2 vs 74.2). Quit propping up Trump & Co. by saying he has a mandate.

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Karen's avatar

I hope Dems are listening to this woman. Not sure if "maybe" she was part of the problem in it's infancy....but hey, she is here now and has the dark side experience...use her!!!

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mikenjae's avatar

Excellent episode. Punk is definitely the right tone for now.

https://youtu.be/63o26RCEiHw?si=0aRblprpzqkPPVju

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RickRickRick's avatar

I would go way farther than Tim and Amanda on saying "fuck the norms." Trump has not only broken, but openly mocked every imaginable norm. If there are norms that are important, then they need to be turned into laws.

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RickRickRick's avatar

And number 1 norm that should go right down the toilet is the notion that "the incoming president should be able to pick his team."

Really? After Trump violated the pinnacle of all norms -- recognizing the peaceful transfer of power? Claiming that he was the actual winner of an election he lost? Labeling the real winner as a fraud?

It makes me ill to see these GOP Senators sitting on the Sunday shows mumbling about how we must respect the "tradition" of letting the incoming president pick his nominees, no matter how insane, and then the so-called "journalists" just sitting there like potted plants.

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Desi's avatar

NBC News is reporting thirty Republican Senators think Gaetz is dead in the water. If they haven't yet, they're about to have a look at the testimony to an ethics committee from a sex trafficking victim of Gaetz who was a minor. The FBI will certainly see it, as part of their vetting process. So either Trump will need to strongarm them or try a recess appointment. I'd say the odds are currently slim he'll be confirmed. And I don't see how those same thirty Senators don't have similar reservations about Tulsi Gabbard for DNI. Her anti-Ukraine Putin-fawning is featured on Russian TV. She sided with Assad after he used chemical nerve agents on innocent citizens in Syria, including kids. Our allies wouldn't want to share intel with Gabbard in charge, as JVL has pointed out, and surely Senators like Lindsey Graham and Tom Cotton know this. I'm not saying they care enough, but they undoubtedly know. They say publicly we should promptly confirm Trump's picks, but I'd guess they could easily be two of the thirty who don't see a realistic path for Gaetz. Democrats in the Senate better gear up and force these coward's hands in these public confirmation hearings, which has the added benefit of making Trump look weak. Even if Trump rams Gaetz and Gabbard through, they will be widely disrespected, therefore weak, potentially damaging. I think the damaging part is the point, for "MAGA", but most of the country aren't here for the instability, the weakness or the danger for the sake of some pointless ill-conceived contrarianism by Trump. A week ago I would've told myself its naive to think they won't all buckle under., but now I think something's gotta give. It will be interesting to see what happens. Trump has clearly given the Republican Senate no good options, and I'm here definitely here for that.

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RickRickRick's avatar

My feeling is that Gaetz and maybe RFK Jr are sacrificial goats, which Trump will withdraw in exchange for GOP Senators agreeing to give him EVERYONE else he nominates. Some say that Trump will never back down, but I think that's misreading his claim of being a "great dealmaker."

The one he REALLY wants is Tulsi Gabbard, because that's a gift to Putin.

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Old Chemist 11's avatar

In fact Trump ALWAYS backs down whenever he's truly confronted. Problem is that he's almost never confronted. A rare exception was in 2020 when members of his staff threatened to quit if he hired Jeffrey Clark as AG. On that note I was surprised Clark wasn't his first pick this time. Ironically he might be if Gaetz is not confirmed.

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RickRickRick's avatar

I had the same thought -- either Jeffrey Clark or *gasp* Rudy Giuliani.

Either one still possible.

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Desi's avatar

I think Trump wants, possibly even expects, in his deranged drunk-with-power pea brain, all three of them should get through. He's sized up the GOP senate and thinks they won't dare cross him. That being said, I have a hard time imagining any of those three actually going through, with their glaring disqualifications, with thirty GOP senators saying on background Gaetz has no path. And if Trump has to replace them with watered-down versions he's going to appear ineffectual right after winning the election. He's at an all-time apex of being sure of his influence and instincts (for good reason) which is saying something. And all the background statements I've seen from his team and from Congress are he wants these people, not less potent replacements. No doubt elements in his team or the wider GOP want or expect they'll be sacrificed, but I don't see any evidence Trump does.

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RickRickRick's avatar

Well, it's a competition between (a) "I am all-powerful and they wouldn't dare cross me" and (b) "I am the King of the Dealmakers and I will con them into giving me the ones I really want by making them think they are asserting themselves, the suckers."

He doesn't need Gaetz for DOJ -- there are plenty of other lawyers who will do anything he asks, like Todd Blanche or Alina Habba. And I'm sure he's been told that everyone in Congress hates Gaetz, so it would be fitting that Gaetz is the human sacrifice. Trump may be a dummy in most respects, but one thing he knows is who hates whom.

Yes, maybe I'm giving Trump too much credit for thinking of any kind. But it looks like Gaetz is just too much for even his GOP sycophants to swallow.

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Desi's avatar

Yes, Gaetz is the least likely of the clown show appointees to move forward. Whether intentionally or not, the Gaetz gambit may serve to pave the way for Hegesth or Gabbard or RFK Jr, when Gaetz isn’t confirmed or is withdrawn. Having to replace all four is both hard to imagine and hard not to imagine considering who Trump is and the ultimate power he wields, and how clearly bad these appointees are objectively.

Along with knowing who hates whom, Trump knows who has the upper hand and who doesn’t. He’s captured the oval, the senate, the courts l. He has a VP on the same page for tie votes. As JVL said today “ the man understands power dynamics. And from where I sit, the institutions with the power to stop him look hopelessly, appallingly weak.”

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dcicero's avatar

Is it not time to stop bringing Rick Wilson on Bulwark podcasts? He’s citing conspiracy theories to Tim. He’s gaslighting everyone on Michael Steele’s podcast.

I’ve been a longtime supporter of The Lincoln Project, but I’m done now. It’s looking more and more like the grift a lot of people said it was.

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Ana S's avatar

For everyone who wants to believe that the Trump voters were duped, read today's NYTimes article about his supporters reactions to his cabinet picks.

One quote of many "They’re losing it, and I’m enjoying every minute of it,” Ms. Hutz said of Mr. Trump’s critics.

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Chaz Hoosier's avatar

They're about to learn the pwning that libturds is not actually a plan for running the government.

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dave darrow's avatar

Sadly, the capacity to learn has been severely diminished by the current strain of the GOP and its voters.

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VillainousVicissitude's avatar

This was a needed shot of resolve. Great episode.

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Jeffrey Gaines's avatar

The majority of Americans voted for a guy who has canonized J6 rioters who assaulted and seriously injured police officers. He’s doing it bc they are Trump supporters, but let’s leave that aside.

Trump honors these people. For assaulting police officers. That alone is disqualifying, not even mentioning the literally hundreds of things he’s done wrong, some less severe, some arguably worse.

That’s who you voted for, Trump voters, so you can stop pretending you’re for law and order, on the border or anywhere else.

That’s who Trump is: the enemy of the Capitol police, and of all who stand with them. And that’s who you are. Enablers of this worst of Presidents, and why? Because he’s a man, and the other candidate was not?

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Brenda's avatar

I want the bad, early. I want a hard hit so that America opens its eyes 👀

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isabelthedesigner's avatar

As a huge Paramore fan, I would definitely start with their second and third albums Riot! and Brand New Eyes as they are much more quintessential to their OG emo, pop-punk style.

After Laugher (which "Hard Times" and "Rose-Colored Boy" are on) is completely different as it's very 80s, new wave inspired but it is also so so good! 😊

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Sean Balkwill's avatar

Great conversation. Panic will destroy us. Punk will save us.

So take a sigh as long as the war's been going on in your heart tonight

And if you want to make that light, go on and swim across the ocean

And if you want to make it right, go on and put your plan in motion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOGNabdWuxM

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Franklin Michaels's avatar

PS We’ll never know whose feathers the DNC fears fuffling.

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Franklin Michaels's avatar

And of course at more or less the same time this was released, the hot-blooded DNC announced that it’s going the otherway … with lawyers and good class actions. Keeping their fingers on America’s pulse. As always. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/16/us/politics/democrats-anti-trump-battle-plan.html?unlocked_article_code=1.aU4.uyYb.LLeQV6d5Lc0M&smid=url-share

Reminded of George Orwell’s Homage to Catalonia, in which he observed that the Communist Party was the most “institutionalist” of the three principal groups on the side of the Spanish Republic, not wanting to take positions which could blow back on their CPFr which seemed poised to become the majority party in France etc.

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Pam's avatar

Thanks for turning me onto Paramore, they remind me of Coheed & Cambria a little — especially That's What you Get.

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Ian's avatar

Punk Rock Attitude!!! NOFX '"Perfect Government" shoulda been the lead out song @TimMiller!!

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Alan Paul's avatar

This is interesting and inspiring. But I can’t believe Amanda and others in Bulwark crowd don’t or can’t accept some responsibility for where we are. Bragging about stealing a SCOTUS seat rubs me wrong. On the other hand, we definitely people who understand how to execute such tactics.

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Ann P's avatar

I didn’t take that as bragging, just showing an example of how you can gum up the works while still doing this that are technically legal and permissible. In other words, there’s stuff Democrats can do to gum up the works that are legal and permissible and they don’t have to march in the streets to make it happen.

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Elliott Rosengarten's avatar

Love, listening to the two of you!

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BE Anderson's avatar

I am in the same space Amanda is and it was a joy to listen to this. Fight on.

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Christina's avatar

I know this may not necessarily be this show's purview, but we should definitely talk about how we all as individuals can make contributions to standing up to Trump's freak authoritarian show.

First and foremost, reach out if you have responsible members of Congress! The Senate needs to air out ALL the dirty laundry on these appointees, and the House needs to conduct proper investigations. Sadly, I now have the father-in-law / son-in-law team of Max Miller and Bernie Moreno representing me, but Ohioans can still lobby Mike DeWine to replace Vance with a responsible Republican - i.e. Matt Dolan, the only non-MAGAfied candidate who has run for statewide office recently.

Second, which groups can you contribute to that are going to make a difference? Protect Democracy, Democracy Forward, ACLU, etc... I would love to hear interviews with folks from these organizations, including more with the fabulous Amanda.

Finally, what can we do in our communities? I am a 44yo graduating law school at this interesting time. I'm planning to volunteer with groups like Catholic Charities and Legal Aid to help protect vulnerable members of our community. What else can be done?

I would love to hear more suggestions!

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Leros's avatar

I suspect Amanda is way too sanguine in thinking the use of the military to round up illegal immigrants is going to upset people who don't really want the military rounding up people in their neighborhoods. I agree with Tim that the images of Biden and Trump were a bit much. Biden didn't need to be President smiley. A stern countenance would have satisfied the "norms" and signaled how much disdain Biden actually has for Trump.

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Brittany's avatar

The thing I think about most is people like Ted Cruz didn’t just change their character overnight to appease Donald Trump. That guy has always been a spineless weasel giant turd ( even when you where there beside him).

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Bruce Lawrence's avatar

I guess we should have taken the hint about Cruz's spinelessness when he declined to defend his father against Trump's charge that he murdered JFK!

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Brittany's avatar

I love how this lady is saying oh they are going back to old laws like the insurrection act but refuses to acknowledge the absolute shitbaggey of block merrrick garland because it was perfectly legal. And all that big talk about Ted Cruz blocking shit was fine cause it was legal. Maybe acknowledge that that kind of shit behavior is how we snowballed to right where we are!!!

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Bruce Lawrence's avatar

By the end of Trump 2, we might be nostalgic for the days when our politicians exploited the rules instead of running roughshod over them.

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Paul A's avatar

I think the message is to use these tactics on the right side now. I know, I have a hard time stomaching these things from the past, but I am glad some are thinking how to use similar tactics for our fight now. Get these ideas to Democratic leadership post haste!

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Craig Payst's avatar

If you want to get a little punk and let them know who to come for, get a little punk and let them know who to come for.

https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/68496588-enemy-within

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Regan's avatar

The trouble is, the spotlight etc she wants to shine on various things aren't getting seen by anyone other than those who already understand/believe. If this doesn't make it to fox news or joe rogan, the people that need to see it, won't.

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Amanda Sevareid's avatar

This was a great interview! I feel like I need to watch it a second time because there was so much to digest. But I have to argue with one point: nothing beats the Talking Heads.

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Christine Martin's avatar

I want to know if people think Schumer should be replaced and if so by whom?

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Leros's avatar

I live in NY. Schumer will never leave on his own, and the progressives don't have the muscle to push him out, especially after Nov. 5. NY progressives are now largely viewed as dupes or worse, especially outside of NYC. NY is slowly turning red. Congressman Ritchie Torres has had his name thrown around as someone who could replace Schumer eventually, but even though he is a progressive, the other progressives hate him because he is pro-Israel.

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Christine Martin's avatar

It was late and I wasn't specific. I meant to say as Minority Leader. The idea of NY turning even a lighter blue is crazy. The in-fighting has to stop. It doesn't help anything. Here I am thinking we need a new leader in the senate. That would stir things up. Ooof.

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Leros's avatar

Schumer is totally plugged in to Wall Street/big bank $, and those guys want Schumer to stay in place as a hedge against anything Trump does that they don't like (e.g., large tariffs that negatively impact equities). No doubt they are already gearing up to derail RFK Jr. behind the scenes, as he threatens large food cos. and pharma cos. (to be clear IMHO Jr. is an egomaniac and an anti-science nut job who should be torpedoed). Schumer will fight when his big $ backers deem it in their interest to do so.

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Christine Martin's avatar

Oh that's good to know. Yeah, I was thinking big pharma is going to have a problem with Jr. He is an idiot, so let's hope he is ineffective too.

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Lawrence E Arendt's avatar

YES! God help us if we rely on Schumer to be the head of resistance.

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Christine Martin's avatar

Exactly

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Sean's avatar

Yeah, Kennedy and Samoa..Tulsi is Samoan..wonder what she thinks?

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Kristin Leonheart's avatar

I literally never buy merch but I would 1000% buy any item with a “The Enemy Within” logo. Let’s do this! 👏🏻

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Leros's avatar

I want mine to say "I am part of the Enemy Within." Of course the motard MAGA folks won't get it.

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Ann P's avatar

Au contraire. They will get it and possibly hurt you for wearing it.

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Leros's avatar

They can try, but I'm pretty spry for an old coot and I don't back down from a fight.

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Alexandra Barcus's avatar

Amanda is right. Terror works best when we turn on one another or we hide. Stalin’s terror should be a lesson for us.

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Sean Thompson's avatar

Have I missed Tim’s comments on his fav governor’s support of RFK Jr?

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Cindy's avatar

In a very lukewarm defense of Polis-he was raised in Boulder by an old school hippie Mom- I sort of think it was the whole food thing that resonated with him.

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Leros's avatar

I accept that (I guess) but it is incomprehensible to me that after Dems just got their ass kicked and Dem unity against the forces of evil is paramount that a Dem in a leadership position is willing to create a chink in the already thin armor by uttering a word in support of an anti-science egomaniac like RFK Jr.

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Leros's avatar

Yeah WTF is that about?

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Leros's avatar

My first thought was that Polis is going to become for Tim what St. Larry Hogan was for Sarah: a feckless politician who becomes impossible to defend.

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Sean's avatar

I was wondering the same.

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Alexandra Barcus's avatar

I’m with Amanda. Time to work.

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Amanda's avatar

I don't think Amanda should have to do a mea culpa for not being an Obama Democrat in the Before Times. The whole point of this website is that people from all sorts of *different* backgrounds come together to preserve democracy. And when, God grant soon, this crisis is over, we're all going to head out in different directions again (hopefully having learned to be more tolerant) (well, a girl can dream).

If the techniques are effective and ethical, let's hear about 'em. They don't get cooties just because Cancun Ted used them first.

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Marion Vermazen's avatar

How will we be able to contribute to enemy within legal fees?

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Bradley Mitchell's avatar

I think she has a point. The democrats have been too nice these past few years. The Republicans are brutally effective when it comes to partisan politics. It's time to play hard ball. Push back on every single appointment. Make Trump work for them. And preferably make it obvious to the American people exactly how embaressing these degenerates are.

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Cherie Anderson's avatar

This was awesome. Finally someone with suggestions for solutions. Thanks Tim. Amanda rocked. Question: could someone provide talking points we can use on our communications with our representatives? It would be good to outline specifically what we can ask for - and I don’t know what that is. I looked at the Protect America site and their calls to action were rather broad. Anyone? Suggestions? Thanks!

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Kathleen Lee's avatar

I'm sorry but Carpenter bears some responsibility for the condition we find ourselves in and, unlike Tim, she has not acknowledged it. The Tea Party was organized and funded, not only by Republican operatives such as she, but also by dark money groups. For a detailed documentation of this see Jane Meyer's Dark Money. It was about scaling back government regulation and they used the backlash of a black President as an accelerant. Does Carpenter still believe that the Affordable Care Act was a huge mistake? Does she favor it's repeal?

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John P's avatar

Completely astroturfed fake movement funded by the worst people. She disqualified herself because she cannot come to accept her role in this. The rest of The Bulwark and the vast majority of their guests do. Do better Amanda.

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CarolineMaybe's avatar

I just want to raise this as a cruel possibility. Third country indefinite detention. Trump got the idea from Australia. His comment was how “tough” the policy was and he, and Miller, loved it.

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CarolineMaybe's avatar

Trump is back to playing the Jan 6 choir as he enters the dining room again.

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Janine's avatar

I enjoy hearing you and Amanda discuss the current state of affairs. I went back and listened to her 2018 interview with David Axelrod’s podcast The Axe Files. Interesting to hear Amanda’s back story.

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DJ's avatar

Trump's definition of "the enemies within" also includes the entire Bulwark team, MSNBC etc. There will no longer be a free press in the United States.

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Dave Yell's avatar

Anybody who doesn't agree with him.

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Theresa's avatar

I wonder…how much money it would take to organize a campaign like the following:

- Send a letter to every registered voter in states with a republican senator where the back of the envelope says “This is about Matt Gaetz” with his picture on the outside.

- The letter should contain 1-2 postcards with postage paid addressed to the voter’s senator’s office in DC and say something like: “Please do not make Matt Gaetz Attorney General! Your constituent, ______________ ”. I

- It should also contain just a short note about why Matt Gaetz is not qualified (drug user, sleeps with underage girls, etc.), and ask the voter to sign and drop in the mail to help stop his nomination.

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Christine Martin's avatar

That's a huge project. I got an envelope from Nielson the ratings people. I opened it and there was a dollar bill in it. I wonder how many people threw those envelopes away without even opening them? Literally throwing cash money away.

I sent postcards. I wonder what people did with them. If they read them or they went straight in the bin? It is so hard to know.

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Norman Bradford's avatar

Should Dr. Fauci move to New Zealand if he hasn’t already because if I was him, I think that’s what I would want to do when we’re talking about them coming after people

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Doug Sooley's avatar

The Tea Party was a Koch brothers astroturfing movement.

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Mikey's avatar

It does not have to be fight or don’t fight. The idea is to slow them down and raise awareness of what they are doing. So tactics to do this can vary by each individual bunch with the same end goals. One tactic is they act like velociraptors. Have someone out in front and then come in from the side. :)

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Barry Warburton's avatar

Professor Snyder lays it out. Pre-meditated decapitation of the US Govt. It's not a shit show, we are under attack.

https://substack.com/@snyder/note/p-151702288?r=46x7a

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Jan Dorsett's avatar

I’m reading his book, On Tyranny right now. It’s chilling.

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Kim M Murphy's avatar

I want to love Amanda but every time I get close she speaks of Cruz and trying to deprive Americans of the ACA affectionately and I’m back at Jump Street.

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Michael's avatar

Healthcare is the biggest policy blindspot for conservatives. The only solution I hear is, "let the market work!" But the market would deprive millions of people - we tried that already. Also being stuck in employee provided plans and their networks isn't really "freedom."

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Matthew Wigren's avatar

All valid points but she really lost me when she said Paramore’s Burning Down the House was superior to the Talking Heads. Thats straight up blasphemous.

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Katherine's avatar

💯% Also, Paramour is NOT punk rock! 😂

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dave darrow's avatar

Yeah, some ppl prefer yacht rock and some prefer metal. I like Amanda's perspective, but I’m not interested in her playlist 🤣

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Kim M Murphy's avatar

Well, yeah. That upset me too much to mention😉

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Tim Miller's avatar

lol

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Cindy  Battie's avatar

We need Aca. Medicare Medicaid. I work with seniors as a volunteer to make sure they have health care. What an eye opener. Private insurance greed is a problem.

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Katherine's avatar

Agree. Did not appreciate her laughing about it, like it was no big deal.

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Cindy  Battie's avatar

She should volunteer for the ship .Medicare volunteer program. How to tell a senior living on 1900 that there is no help with drug costs or Medicaid. Under Biden significant.medicare advancements.

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Dave Yell's avatar

Amanda is ok but I always have a hard getting past the fact that she worked for Jim DeMint and Ted Cruz.(real institutionalist). :) :)

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Brendan Classon's avatar

Just let the Republicans have at it. In 2026, let's see how voters warm to the new Republican DEI agenda: Deportations, Evangelicalism, Illegality.

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Dave Yell's avatar

Inflation from tariffs, allies no longer trusting us because of Tulsi, much grifting

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PEB's avatar

Yesss Amanda! I know the American people will NEVER live under someone's thumb. We will fight for our true freedom!

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Dave Yell's avatar

like we fought in the last election

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Kathleen Leary's avatar

Sorry, old Dem here and you lost me at Ted Cruz and the Green Eggs and Ham filibuster re “the potential government takeover with healthcare..” And there seems to be an assumption that Democrats are just going to lay down and die. We don’t need Amanda Carpenter preaching to Democrats. Ugh. Why don’t you talk to the listeners about what WE can do. My representatives are totally are in the bag with Trump—I don’t have anyone to write or call—so short of going to the streets to protest, what do I do? We can make a big show of fighting but when he gets his way on everything in the end, then what? I say we learn from what just happened, wait for the fuck-ups, and be ready for the next election cycles.

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Christine Martin's avatar

I think the biggest problem is the messaging silos. How do we breakthrough to people who are either not listening or getting bad information. The Republicans will make every win theirs, like Pelosi's stimulus checks with Asshole's name on them, and every failure, like no action on the border even though Asshole scuttled Langford's border bill, the Democratics fault. How do you fight that? That's what we need to figure out. There has to be a way.

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Migs's avatar

This is the fundamental issue. Even if you have the perfect messenger by the perfect person no one that needs to hear it doesn’t hear it. That’s the biggest issue we face. I’m honestly at a loss on how to do it.

The second problem is even if you have the perfect message and the perfect messenger, trump blocks out the sun media wise.

This is where I always disagreed with Jvl about Harris winning every news cycle. It was never possible because Trump lights himself on fire.

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Christine Martin's avatar

Exactly. I started Jason Stanley's How Propaganda Works. What's happening isn't new it is just different because of social media. I feel like we need to try everything.

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Migs's avatar

I know. What I don’t understand is how we says things that are soooooo offensive how it never ever effects him. I’m. I’m. Lost. Literally Trump has done 1000 things that if a normal politician did would be finishing moves. He lives on and is more popular because of it. The world is upside down.

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susPool's avatar

Wasn't it the Tea Party and their tactics that birthed MAGA in the first place? Not sure thats the template we want to canonize.

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CE Wheeler's avatar

When did Elon learn to code?

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Kathleen Leary's avatar

I know! That really made me laugh. How did this guy get to be CEO of Cantor Fitzgerald?? He sounds like a real dummy.

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Linda carruthers's avatar

Yes, he will shut down Congress over Gabbard. Because it’s about demonstrating his power rather than accomplishing anything.

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Linda carruthers's avatar

Tim is correct. Do little except media stunts. Let the actual stuff happen and ensure people know about it. Stop being the hall monitors of US liberalism.

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Dave Yell's avatar

Tim and JVL are correct. Let them own it but make people aware of what and how they are doing it. (Messaging and branding)

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Mary Arnold's avatar

Yep. A lot of before/after, followed by the question: is this the change you voted for?

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Christine Martin's avatar

I totally agree. Who would do the messaging and branding? Do the angry people need to storm, figuratively of course, the DNC and put a fire under their asses? I want to roll up my sleeves and not wring my hands. Looking for something to do.

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Dave Yell's avatar

A good start would be Pete Buttigieg. Nobody is better than Pete with the ease and simplicity to explain in message and branding. Another one who comes to mind is John Fetterman. He certainly looks and comes off as a non politician. And that is a real plus as Sarah has often mentioned.

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Christine Martin's avatar

Yes. Pete is a masterclass and he's doing the work. I like Katie Porter. Kamala is going to have some free time, too. I think they should start, oh say, March (they can have a short break) and then hit the pavement. They need to travel the country. I don't think relying on the media to communicate for you works. Obviously. They need to meet the people face to face as much as possible.

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Colleen Donfield's avatar

Just a note. I have become a little wary of Rick Wilson. And I saw on Bluesky that The Lincoln Project was listed in a block list of Blue Anon folks which included a lot of the usual suspects, JoJo from Jerz, Brooklyn Dad Defiant etc. I think a lot of us have been through it with these people and want nothing more to do with false predictions and half-truths.

And, I’m with Amanda.

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Alexandra Barcus's avatar

Why is Rick Wilson in doubt? Those guys busted their butts at LO. The sheer number of incredible videos they did should cause us to be very grateful. I don’t understand. Rick has always seemed remarkably genuine to me. He has suffered for the any-Trump cause. Have you watched all his podcasts? Particularly the ones from the Dem Convention?

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Colleen Donfield's avatar

I think he exaggerates.

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Alexandra Barcus's avatar

Thanks for the response.

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Nick's avatar

I don’t trust Rick, at all. But you also listed who I think is the biggest grifter on the left - jojofromjerz. I lost a lot of respect for the Biden team when I saw her at the WH and heard she was being paid for her “influence”. JoJo and people like her do more harm than good for campaigns.

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Colleen Donfield's avatar

I agree completely.

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Manuela Senatore's avatar

You rock Amanda! Was uplifting to hear you determination 👍

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Brian Brown's avatar

Have to respectfully disagree with Amanda regarding her “better than the talking heads” comment. The obvious punk song to end anything should be by The Clash and in this instance I suggest “Know your rights,” “revolution rock,” or the somewhat depressing “complete control.” Though if Tim ever reads this Orville Peck is punk so anything by him counts.

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Christopher M's avatar

Elaborating on my earlier post, Robert Kennedy advised that we focus on and work toward good, as opposed to allowing our energy to be depleted by outrage over the malfeasance of others. In addition, any action no matter how small when combined with actions of millions of others for good can make a big difference.

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Christopher M's avatar

Yes, I mean Robert Kennedy, not RFK Jr.

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Kim M Murphy's avatar

You mean Dad, right? Not the psychotic son?

RFK was wonderful. I stayed up all night praying for his life.

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severn's avatar

The 49.9% that voted against should increase their savings. Spend less.

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NatBe's avatar

Good pod. Uplifting. Where do I sign up for the protests?

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Christopher M's avatar

Amanda’s points remind me of the messages in Robert Kennedy’s Cape Town address on Day of Affirmation, 1966. That address speaks to the current situation in the US. I am inspired by its message.

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Kenrick Hackett's avatar

Amanda, good on you for knowing about Gene Sharp’s work. Check out the works of Gandhi as well, perhaps MLK Jr., Vaclav Havel, Timothy Snyder. Michael Moore is working along these lines-- get in touch with him. Read David Halberstam’s “The Children”. Peter Pomerantsev’s books on propaganda are also worthwhile. Read Arendt’s essay, “Personal Responsibility Under a Dictatorship” and her book, analyzing the American Revolution, “On Revolution”. Frederick Douglass has a great line during the Civil War, that the Confederates were waging war on human conscience and human justice."

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Christine Martin's avatar

Took my unread Arndt off the shelf tonight.

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Alexandra Barcus's avatar

This is a very sound reading list. Some of Bill Browder’s book, Anne Applebaum’s work, and that of Mash Gessen are all relevant.

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Kelly Grey's avatar

Love me some all caps Amanda 👍

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Truly North's avatar

I'm having a hard time seeing how the Democrats can apply the techniques of the Tea Party. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but all of the Tea Party protestations about the "Constitution", "personal freedom", "small government", "rule of law", "fiscal responsibility", "family values", and "patriotism" were all lies. Trump proved that. They were just thin veneers of respectability which disguised the true reason for its support: the hatred against a half-black and half-white president.

I cannot see how Democrats can use those same techniques. The technical battles against Trump in DC must be paired with some sort of demagoguery and populist messaging for the regular people on the streets who pay no attention to politics. Unfortunately, I don't think demagoguery and lies work well on the Democratic side right now.

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Kim M Murphy's avatar

The Tea Party was the trial run for MAGA.

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Dave Yell's avatar

its birth place

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Benjamin Seltzer's avatar

Lies are probably a non-starter for Democrats, I agree. (In an ideal world, they would be non-starters for everyone, but here we are.)

However, I think that some solid demagoguery could work wonders for Democrats, the folks who sat out this election, and perhaps some Independents, too. If the emotional appeals are what get people in the door, the facts and policies don't need to change; they just need to be recast in emotional terms. (Also not what I wish politics to be... and again, here we are.)

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JF's avatar

Someone in the mold of Bernie, but younger.

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HistoricalHolli's avatar

As the saying goes, you can wish in one hand and crap in the other...

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Leila Gough's avatar

Thanks Amanda. I appreciate your passion!

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Migs's avatar

Another great podcast and for the record, me love me some Amanda. Miss her at the bulwark.

I guess I struggle with a lot of the high level recommendations. To be clear, I loved how she bucketed the threats. Very helpful. However, I feel like the idea of throwing sand in the gears in the senate will likely be very ineffective. First, I don’t think people care about process arguments. Second, I think the big difference in what Cruz did in 2010 is different for a few reasons. The largest is that the media environment is so fractured that that those stunts don’t reach many people. Next, the voters in the base of each party are just too different for this strategy to work. Republicans base voters want and have wanted to burn the government down for a long long time (to be fair I never thought they would take it this far). The dem voters want the government to work for them. They don’t want it to be dysfunctional.

I guess I’m in the camp where you have to pick your fights and make them BIG. I just don’t think that the nominees are the place to bet the farm.

I always struggle with the norm discussions though. As tim said, I thought Biden’s meeting with Trump was ridiculous but nitpicking if Joe smiled or not is kind of low ball shit in my opinion. You either decide to protect norms or not. I find the nitpicking of “I like this norm not that one” kind of a waste of time because EVERYONE has a different opinion. Personally I’m for dropping all norms. If it’s not illegal dems/biden/harris should be willing to do it IF it’s beneficial politically.

I just don’t think we can bury are heads in the sand anymore. There is nothing that Republican politicians won’t do…even violate the law. Dems need to stop playing the game of the post Nixon rules.

Tim how insane would it be if we asked the nuggets to play like the Celtics in the 80s. The game has changed. Dems need to change with it and start shooting 3s.

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Dave Yell's avatar

Nice metaphor there Migs! (NBA in the 80's vs today)

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Benjamin Seltzer's avatar

"Personally I’m for dropping all norms. If it’s not illegal dems/biden/harris should be willing to do it IF it’s beneficial politically."

And if there are norms worthy of preserving, then they can be made into LAWS (and not congressional rules that congress gets to regulate for themselves).

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Migs's avatar

Yep. That’s my point. Either codify them or don’t. But if you don’t, don’t be mad that the other side thinks you are joke.

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TLO's avatar

#1: Amanda, I love the art behind you. It compliments you beautifully.

#2: Already called my Senators offices (Risch and Crapo) and asked them not to abdicate their responsibilities by allowing recess appointments for such abysmally unqualified and dangerous appointees. Risch should care at least a little as he's a real hawk about national security and our military.

This said, I expect nothing from these two Senators. They're fully party first stooges. But we can't say nothing. They should still know we're watching. I suspect they'll bow down, though.

I cannot stand the facts that: We have a criminally indicted, convicted felon and rapist as our President-elect. Gaetz is his soul mate and potentially the future AG. Gabbard is, at her heart, a Russian sympathizer and American military hater.

That Trump will pardon the animals that attacked police officers and our Capitol looks bad. Not just to our own citizens who are held to a much higher standard, but the rest of the world. What credibility do we have when we're chastising other countries for their failings legally? We'll be a joke.

Aren't we paying for these potential investigations? I'll be ticked off at wasting our taxpayer money on petty grievances of our so-called "tough man" president. This aspect should be broadcast loudly.

You know, they (right, MAGA, Republicans) constantly discredit Mexico as an unjust and third world country, but having military officers as well as police officers in the streets is very present in Mexico. So... we're going to be like Mexico?

Yeah, I didn't care for that look between Biden and Trump. Melania didn't show, so Jill did not need to be there. It is sour grapes, guys, and they obviously had to force a happy face. This is their generation and the tradition of our country. If nothing else, just like the upcoming peaceful transfer, it should be noted that Trump didn't do that.

I found it most galling that Trump thanked them for that, and said how very appreciative he was for it. THAT bugged the heck out of me.

Amanda, how did you stand working for Cruz? I find the man so offensive and insufferable.

Yeah, John Thune is going to be another party first at all costs stooge. First bash the Democrats. That's the strong signal. So much for working together. (I never expected it.)

Amanda is not a fan of JVL's philosophy of letting the R's do what they're going to do and let the chips fall where they ultimately will and let the people feel the consequences of their vote? I wish you had a phone in line or open chat so that we could ask these questions and hear live answers! Like you did on Wednesday night, Tim!

My biggest concern is how do we actually get the "opposition" messaging across? We've already seen how much stronger their media messaging is and it's far reach. I can tell you as someone in a red state that our reps don't listen to us. They don't even have town halls and debates any longer here. If we're not a registered R, we are not listened to.

We also see that regardless of what we say to or show them they don't believe it because the other side will immediately be attacking and distracting. And all due respect, Amanda: we have a heavily armed population that have tacitly been given permission to use guns if they feel "threatened". I am more cautious because the incoming President's rhetoric is so violent, his potential AG's is as well, and R's do and say nothing about the unspoken threat that MAGA poses.

Noem I expected fully. We knew she'd get something important. What's surprising is that Margerie hasn't.

Laura Trump? Dumb as a stump Laura? My god. Florida is truly insane.

Great podcast, Tim and Amanda. Tim, you've been really great this week, above and beyond. You need to get some rest now. See how sharp, chipper and on fire Amanda was? That was a week of rest and a political version of women rage listening. (We're usually raging against the patriarchy, but we're flexible.)

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Dave Yell's avatar

You are swimming against the tide with those two Senators! Must be exhausting!

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Sally D.'s avatar

My Senators are Cruz and Cornyn. My Representative is Chip Roy. Then there are Abbott, Patrick and Paxton. I have wanted to relocate for a long time, but am not in a position to do so. There are grassroots efforts in my red county, but it's mostly beating your head against a brick wall.

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Dave Yell's avatar

My condolences Sally. I thought Collin Allred is an exceptional person who deserved to be your Senator. In fact, I even wrote that he would become one of that "deep Democratic bench" that has been mentioned often in The Bulwark. It just bogles my mind that Ken Paxton keeps getting elected even though he has been investigated for a long time.

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Sally D.'s avatar

It boggles my mind too, Dave. There are some really good people in this state, including Allred. Texas is controlled by rural voters at this point. I doubt I will see any changes in my lifetime, sad to say. I am 68. I miss Ann Richards.

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TLO's avatar

Idaho is exactly the same. In fact, when people ask me what Idaho’s trajectory is like, I tell them it’s closest to Texas than any other state is, but with mountains. It will be a long long time before anything but Republican cronyism directs this state. Like the country itself, rural areas dictate its politics. The same amount of representation for 1 million voters in a small district size wise goes to the tiniest of population.

Does every state choose by total vote count in national elections, a simple majority? I’m curious about what national elections would like if we followed Nebraska’s process. It seems like more honest representation there. Less people left out of representation. Or maybe I’m not seeing something correctly?

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Sally D.'s avatar

Well, we have mountains too, just not as majestic as Idaho's. But the two states do seem to share the same corrupt Republican cronyism. All of our cities are blue, but the Republicans have made inroads in the Rio Grande Valley counties, along with the predominately Hispanic population.

It does seem like the Nebraska process (and Maine is the only other one) would be a more honest representation, but I don't think it would have helped this election. The Democrats need to win back voters AND get them to vote. I don't know what the answer is when so much of the populace gravitates toward right-wing media. The Republicans have played the long game and it's paying off for them.

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TLO's avatar

Perfectly said. :)

Where does Fox revenue come from? Is it all advertisers and contract with the different stations and networks? That would suggest that we need to stopping watching television. I think I’d be fine with that. ;)

We seemed smarter as a nation when we had less media

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Dave Yell's avatar

I still remember Ann Richard's quote about George W, (in her Texas drawl) "Poor George, he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth".

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Sally D.'s avatar

Yes, she was one of a kind. We need more people like her.

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Dave Yell's avatar

It is amazing how red Texas got after Ann Richards.

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Jake's avatar

Apple Music Playlist is up to date for the weekend: https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/bulwark-pod-songs/pl.u-0embfxV15e

- Super Fan

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dave darrow's avatar

Thank you!!!!

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Jake's avatar

Sure thing

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Prigge, Norbert's avatar

Try some Lou Reed. The album New York, especially the song Busload of Faith.

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Cali Tex's avatar

Y'all are awesome, but I have a question as to why doesn't Kamala come back as the "resistance" leader? She knows the law and even though she didn't win, maybe this could be an opportunity for people to get to know how competent she is. She gives great speeches and now when she does interviews she can just be her. Just an idea.

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Bruce Lawrence's avatar

I'm not sure Kamala could take the lead without an official title of some kind. Would it make sense for her to chair the DNC for the next two to four years?

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Cynical Pragmatist's avatar

Dems need to do a full primary like they should have done in '23 but someone didn't understand it was his time to head off into the sunset and enjoy a solid legacy. Instead, we get Trump Part Deaux.

Between Shapiro, Whitmer, Beshear, Moore etc. there's enough good candidates with solid governing experience - something I think will be appreciated after another four years of Trump. If Kamala decides she wants to try again and wins the primary, I'm on board, but I don't think the odds are good that she'd win. I expect the last few months took a toll. She ran a decent campaign. Made some mistakes, but it was a tough spot for her to be put in. As governor of California, she would improve her odds of winning and would be able to set herself with a seat at the table in terms of influence.

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Migs's avatar

In retrospect this is correct however it probably would have made very little difference in the outcome of this election. In every developed country worldwide there were a 110 elections. In every single one of them the voters kicked out the party in power. Didn’t matter if they were left, center, right, ultra right, authoritarian, male, female, old, and young. Inflation is a party killer.

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Dave Yell's avatar

Not a bad idea. But I think that Dems want to move on after losing and will be looking for a new messenger.

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Carol Ann's avatar

I think Gavin Newsom will run for WH in 2028 and she'll run for CA Gov.

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DJ's avatar

I think it needs to be someone with actual power, like a governor. Gavin Newsome is already setting himself up for that but I’d prefer someone else.

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Dave Yell's avatar

Much, much, much prefer someone else.

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wayne's avatar

Better than the Talking Heads song? Hey, I like Paramour, but Amanda has spent too much time in West Virginia. FFS.

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Lonn Robertson's avatar

Argh...I'm still so angry about McConnell and the Merrick Garland issue that it makes it super hard for me to pay attention to Amanda. I know I should - a pragmatic approach is imperative. But I will always be outraged.

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Dave Yell's avatar

I hear ya. But those two are so yesterday. Better to put them in your rear view mirror or it will give you a heart attack!

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Benjamin Seltzer's avatar

You're not alone, Lonn. I will confess to needing a few minutes to vent my spleen when Amanda shrugged off that particular violation so casually... and you're right. We're going to need a lot more pragmatism (and less meaningless symbolism, in my opinion) to fight this.

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HistoricalHolli's avatar

It amazes me that someone as smart as Amanda doesn't connect the dots between that norm-breaking action (whether it was in "the rules" or not) and where we are now.

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Kathleen Leary's avatar

Is she all that smart? Anyone who can say “the potential government takeover with healthcare” with a straight face and not have any self-reflection on it doesn’t seem so smart to me. She’s one of the few people Tim has on who are not my cup of tea (party).

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Dave Yell's avatar

Remember after all she did work for DeMint and Cruz.

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Lonn Robertson's avatar

Thank you all - I was feeling super guilty and petulant. Nice to have some affirmation even if I wish I didn't need it.

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Benjamin Seltzer's avatar

The thing that really chafes me is that once the norms were violated, the Democrats just kept following them!

You don't tie your hands behind your back when the other guy shows you he came to a gunfight.

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HistoricalHolli's avatar

You're preaching to the choir, my man. And all the worrying about "what the Republicans will say so it doesn't matter what we do."

They won't have a lot to say if we punch them in the mouth enough times. They keep bullying us because we take it.

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Lonn Robertson's avatar

Perhaps I am blind to when we "didn't follow the rules" but if the McConnell move wasn't enough, then we had Tea Party antics that continued, then 4 years (seemed longer than that) of Trump - yet it felt like we still thought it was more important to follow Marquess of Queensbury Rules than to win. I thought we learned about that to finally beat the British in the 1780's.

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bwelchmiami's avatar

Amanda is freakin inspiring. I love her ideas, energy, passion, and both/and approach

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Cindy's avatar

Thanks for clarifying the thing about the dead body in Gaetz’s dorm room Tim. I wondered about that. We do not need to go down rabbit holes especially right now.

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tupper's avatar

Agreed. Or people repeating BS. I'm OK with Rick Wilson, I guess. But I hope/assume Tim dinged him privately to straighten out.

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Manon Banta's avatar

I wonder if Tulsi will be the one instance where GOP Senators find a semblance of a spine, since she’s a former Democrat and a woman.

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Kevin Cromer's avatar

Finally! Someone willing to fight! I already loved Amanda days. Trump and his followers are attempting to overthrow the Constitution. They are stoppable. They are fallible. They are mortal.

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Keri Maloney's avatar

I’m feeling fired up! I’m former military, and fear what’s going to happen to military and veterans under the Trump admin.

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Cindy  Battie's avatar

Thank you. Women in military are necessary and have contributed greatly. To have a sec defense that said women should not be in the military is off the walls.

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JLyon's avatar

Same Keri.

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Clay Banes's avatar

Please give superfan Apple mirror playlist name/details, please!

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Nastja Mirzoeva's avatar

Second this)) please!

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tupper's avatar

28 minute mark:

"Don't speak about specific issues. Think about themes that are going to be constant...It's going to be about abuse of power. It's going to be about corruption. It's going to be on fairness..."

Yes! Yes! Yes! Certainly there are issues. But our fight is about preserving the way we *decide* those issues. And that is what Trump is attacking.

Amanda, you're the greatest

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Walternate 🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇺🇹🇼🇩🇰🇬🇱🇲🇽🇵🇦's avatar

Tim, I'm right there with you on smiley Joe with Trump pictures and such. The response since the election isn't commensurate with the threat portrayed. It feels insulting.

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TZReader's avatar

Pictures of sad Biden would achieve nothing but glee from the wrong people.

I am glad he offers Americans respect toward their chosen leader.

He is not naive. He has told us for years what Trump is.

He sees no victory in showing himself to be a sore loser.

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Nick's avatar

It’s reminiscent of the conversation that Tim had with Ezra Klein before the election. Ezra shared that top democrats were saying in private something along the lines of if we don’t beat Trump it’ll be fine. Enraging!

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Walternate 🇺🇦🇨🇦🇪🇺🇹🇼🇩🇰🇬🇱🇲🇽🇵🇦's avatar

As frustrating as that was at the time, I didn't think Biden was one of them.

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Jesse K's avatar

Fugazi! Great shoutout Tim.

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Cam's avatar

I did NOT expect Tim to suggest them, thrilled to hear it!!

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Ach's avatar

http://www.intrepidreport.com/archives/18966

This should be falsifiable. Presumably the ruling on the cause of death should be out there somewhere.

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TLO's avatar

What do you think should be falsified? Scarborough was hounded forcibly by Trump for this death of his aide, accused of having an affair with her. This woman's husband came out and asked the media to cease and desist regarding this, that it wasn't true, asking to leave them in peace.

My understanding from Florida extended family is that the Gaetz information is considered very true – and they're Trumpers. An entitled little daddy's brat is how they refer to him.

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Dave Yell's avatar

Gaetz is the Prince Andrew of Pensacola.

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Carter Kenehan's avatar

Donald Trump’s cabinet has historically been a career incinerator. He’s picking the weirdest and most caustic people in America. Trump loves turning his flying monkeys against each other like an episode of his former reality TV show. I understand they will be destructive arsonists, but we’re not talking about the most disciplined or competent team to say the least.

Please make fun of them and be meaner to them, they deserve it. They love villain energy and thinking people are afraid of them.

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Laura's avatar

Amanda, I suspect the Tea Party didn't get death threats. That has to be addressed.

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Gismonda's avatar

I would like to see a Dem Senator read Green Eggs & Ham while staring at Ted Cruz the whole time.

It seems fair

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Dave Yell's avatar

maybe Bartholomew and the Oobleck

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tupper's avatar

Yes! But which one? Who's our Ted Cruz?

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Amanda Carpenter's avatar

For the record, I did not advise that particular reading. :)

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Gismonda's avatar

Ha! Thank you for clearing that up :)

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DJ's avatar

Amanda, is there an interview somewhere about your backstory? I’m fascinated by the fact you once worked for Ted Cruz and would love to hear the full story.

Also, did you ever consider a career in law enforcement? You always ask such good questions, like a detective.

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jacob graham's avatar

Read her book! It not only offers an original and potent take on Trump's unique skills and power, but it goes a bit into her time on the Cruz team.

https://www.harpercollins.com/products/gaslighting-america-amanda-carpenter

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Jcs444's avatar

Amanda. We are here to fight with you. Let us know. Thank you.

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Laura Donna's avatar

Hi Tim. I realize you, Sarah, JVL, and others are doing thought experiments on whether to "let them roll around in their own s____," etc. I do the experiment along with you...where to draw the line, which battles to pick and so on.

Here is what our other favorite Tim said about that this morning: "And citizens, regardless of how they voted, need now to check their attitudes. This is no longer a post-electoral moment. It is a pre-catastrophic moment. Trump voters are caught in the notion that Trump must be doing the right thing if Harris voters are upset. But Harris voters are upset now because they love their country. And Harris voters will have to get past the idea that Trump voters should reap what they have sown. Yes, some of them did vote to burn it all down. But if it all burns down, we burn too. "

https://snyder.substack.com/p/decapitation-strike

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TLO's avatar

I feel the same. Vengeance won't be mine if we all burn down, right? We'll get past that. I think we need to be realistic about what we're facing and what we can accomplish. I have little impact in my state and our crazed legislature, so I'm looking for any little way I can elsewhere. Locally I'm involved, but this is a closed ecosystem. Idaho's rural Boise/Ada County went red for the first time. Sun Valley (where the wealthy out of towners, stars, etc live) is the only blue spot in Idaho. That was rather stunning. So MAGA types are moving here.

What I feel I have is letter writing and phone calls, but that is of little use in this Republican ecosystem: they quit caring about the constituents long ago. And like Trump, they don't look on non Republicans as anything but the enemy. It's not as if we can contact other state's officials; they don't accept out of state contact. I'm not sure where that leaves me, but I can't do nothing.

So, I'm here and on other like minded sites, and I"m wondering if I need to learn computer coding to create some algorithms of my own.

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Christine Martin's avatar

I am right there with you. I am in Washington state and am wondering what to do now? I sent money to other states thinking that might help. It didn't. I know it is early days and the shock is just wearing off, but I think us like minded people need to get together and figure out our next steps. I personally want actionable steps. I've been filling in my authoritarian bingo card and the businesses are the next targets. What can our pocket books do? Do we need to make businesses pick between Asshole or their customers? What can we do? Maybe the first step is just organizing the troops? Bringing people together. I'm scrolling looking for people who want to take action. The smoke is clearing off the battlefield and I am stumbling around looking for other survivors.

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Laura Donna's avatar

Hey Christine, thank you for writing. I think all sentient beings with democratic values are experiencing some flavor of the "stumbling around looking for survivors" you mention and disorientation as we figure out what to do next. Personally, I am finding that my community of friends and activists and even not-so-activists is grounding. I believe the work will be more difficult and there will be less of a sense of immediate gratification, but it is no less important than before. On the contrary!

It seems useful to find some people to be around and ask and answer these questions with. I found a kickoff call from a national group called Indivisible to be practical, realistic, and inspiring. I decided that as I try to discern where to apply myself in a concentrated way, I will take the lead of local groups for activities anyone can do -- to be a worker bee. There are things people in blue and red states can do to make a difference.

Please let me know what you think of the video, and feel free to private message me.

Youtube transcript of Indivisible's kickoff call: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=db-Pvqa5SQE

Also, their homepage contains links to find a local group, create a group as needed, and find or register events. https://indivisible.org/ In my area (Connecticut) some of the local links don't work, but it is easy enough to find the groups on Facebook or in other places.

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Laura Donna's avatar

A point of clarification, Christine, when I mention "people to be around" I mean actually, physically being around people. Today I drove from Connecticut to upstate New York just to see folks I canvassed with to get a seat for incoming Congressman Josh Riley. I just wanted that solidarity and real connection. It feels important to get the "yes, I am still a human being" thing down in a world that just went mad, even if it was only by a few percentage points.

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Christine Martin's avatar

Thank you so much, Laura!! I did a couple of the Indivisible calls last time. I will definitely check it out. I am in Washington state and in a cozy blue community. The fight feels so very far away. Yes, I need to find my people. 😊🙏

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Nick's avatar

I like Amanda and know she means well but this podcast was not based in reality.

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Migs's avatar

I agree. It’s just not clear why those strategies would work now when they didn’t before. Seems like the same strategy on repeat.

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Jane Stevenson's avatar

I don't like Amanda because she seems to me to not be a serious person. she can be serious enough when on various television programs, but with Tim she's giggly, flirty, girlish. not what I'm looking for on Bulwark. It makess her seem like a lightweight.

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