H, Trump was successful at turning out low propensity voters, including a bunch of young men who think that Trump, Musk and Hulk Hogan are somehow positive examples of masculinity. I don't believe for a minute such a voter is capable of understanding the ins and outs of the Afghanistan withdrawal and the factors that went into that decis…
H, Trump was successful at turning out low propensity voters, including a bunch of young men who think that Trump, Musk and Hulk Hogan are somehow positive examples of masculinity. I don't believe for a minute such a voter is capable of understanding the ins and outs of the Afghanistan withdrawal and the factors that went into that decision, and I don't believe such a voter understood *why* there was inflation to begin with. Point 3 is valid and something that Sarah Longwell lost her mind about repeatedly and justifiably.
But at the end of the day, Trump won because a Constitutionally sufficient percentage of voters looked at Trump's moral turpitude, risible unfitness for office, and sundowning and didn't give a shit, **or they liked it**.
Everyone is who is doing an election post mortem has been focused on what Biden, Harris, or the Democrats didn't do or didn't understand about the electorate. All of that is true to varying degrees. But ultimately, the takeaway from 2024 is the electorate is rotten. To put it another way, if we're to get better as a nation, we first have to be honest with ourselves about *what* is wrong before we can regain our health.
Dear Tim, This was complex and thoughtful response. The one thing that is true in any doing any historical post mortem is that it is never one, or two, or three, etc.,factors that have led to a particular end.
Sandy, Republican voters have agency, and when push came to shove, they voted for someone who is responsible for 1M+ deaths from COVID, a cratered economy, an attempted coup. Those voters wanted more Trump. He is more popular today with the Republican base than ever. We can quibble about lower voter turnout and Democratic messaging and all that shit, but at the end of the day, enough voters wanted an authoritarian fascist head of state because a) they like it, b) are fine with it as long as the price of eggs comes down and are thus amoral, and c) are dumber than a sack of hammers and are unable to clearly see the risk to the country.
In other words, when a significant number of voters are fine with someone who wants to bring Greenland, Canada, and the Panama Canal under US control by force, increasing Democratic voter turnout is not going to address the root cause of what ails us.
Dear Sandy, The results of the election were simple and verifiable. Donald Trump won, and he won by a couple of hundred thousand votes. It is why he won, the roots of why he won, that is ultimately the question that must be faced and diagnosed.
Even if Harris had won, we'd still need to face and diagnose Trump's popularity. I'm interested in why he lost in 2O2O and won in 2O24. Biden beat him by only 4OK votes in 2O2O. What was different about 2O24? Dem turnout. That's what needs to be analyzed and understood.
How do we explain the missing voters? Is it really that possible the voters for Biden (~82M vs 74M T) turned away in such numbers (77M T, 75M H) to give T the win? There's a 3M count discrepancy. You really think the turnout in 2020 was MORE and there was less enthusiasm to get rid of T this time?
People were highly motivated to vote in 2020 due to highly personal reasons: COVID was destroying their lives, and they wanted it to stop. So they turned out (some in person, some by mail). In 2024, the world was much safer, healthier, and economically secure -- unless you lived in a conservative media bubble that tells you it's the worst economy and crime rate ever.
In that reality, the people who are living in the fear-inducing bubble turn out. And the people who aren't particularly informed about the severity of Trump's malfeasance, and are reasonably safe/healthy/secure, stay home.
All of it points to one thing: Certain people only turn out when their scared about their PERSONAL security, not their COUNTRY's safety/security
I explain the missing voters as unserious people and bad citizens who didn't fucking show up, Notmy. 2020 was about COVID. If COVID hadn't happened, Trump probably would have won reelection.
H, Trump was successful at turning out low propensity voters, including a bunch of young men who think that Trump, Musk and Hulk Hogan are somehow positive examples of masculinity. I don't believe for a minute such a voter is capable of understanding the ins and outs of the Afghanistan withdrawal and the factors that went into that decision, and I don't believe such a voter understood *why* there was inflation to begin with. Point 3 is valid and something that Sarah Longwell lost her mind about repeatedly and justifiably.
But at the end of the day, Trump won because a Constitutionally sufficient percentage of voters looked at Trump's moral turpitude, risible unfitness for office, and sundowning and didn't give a shit, **or they liked it**.
Everyone is who is doing an election post mortem has been focused on what Biden, Harris, or the Democrats didn't do or didn't understand about the electorate. All of that is true to varying degrees. But ultimately, the takeaway from 2024 is the electorate is rotten. To put it another way, if we're to get better as a nation, we first have to be honest with ourselves about *what* is wrong before we can regain our health.
Dear Tim, This was complex and thoughtful response. The one thing that is true in any doing any historical post mortem is that it is never one, or two, or three, etc.,factors that have led to a particular end.
I disagree. Ultimately, the results of the election are due to lower turnout, AMONG THE DEMS!
Sandy, Republican voters have agency, and when push came to shove, they voted for someone who is responsible for 1M+ deaths from COVID, a cratered economy, an attempted coup. Those voters wanted more Trump. He is more popular today with the Republican base than ever. We can quibble about lower voter turnout and Democratic messaging and all that shit, but at the end of the day, enough voters wanted an authoritarian fascist head of state because a) they like it, b) are fine with it as long as the price of eggs comes down and are thus amoral, and c) are dumber than a sack of hammers and are unable to clearly see the risk to the country.
In other words, when a significant number of voters are fine with someone who wants to bring Greenland, Canada, and the Panama Canal under US control by force, increasing Democratic voter turnout is not going to address the root cause of what ails us.
I thought we were talking about the results of the election, not the root cause of what ails us. Which is what, oin your view?
Dear Sandy, The results of the election were simple and verifiable. Donald Trump won, and he won by a couple of hundred thousand votes. It is why he won, the roots of why he won, that is ultimately the question that must be faced and diagnosed.
Even if Harris had won, we'd still need to face and diagnose Trump's popularity. I'm interested in why he lost in 2O2O and won in 2O24. Biden beat him by only 4OK votes in 2O2O. What was different about 2O24? Dem turnout. That's what needs to be analyzed and understood.
How do we explain the missing voters? Is it really that possible the voters for Biden (~82M vs 74M T) turned away in such numbers (77M T, 75M H) to give T the win? There's a 3M count discrepancy. You really think the turnout in 2020 was MORE and there was less enthusiasm to get rid of T this time?
No, it was a vote against Dems, even among Dems in blue cities! That is not the same thing as pro-Trump.
People were highly motivated to vote in 2020 due to highly personal reasons: COVID was destroying their lives, and they wanted it to stop. So they turned out (some in person, some by mail). In 2024, the world was much safer, healthier, and economically secure -- unless you lived in a conservative media bubble that tells you it's the worst economy and crime rate ever.
In that reality, the people who are living in the fear-inducing bubble turn out. And the people who aren't particularly informed about the severity of Trump's malfeasance, and are reasonably safe/healthy/secure, stay home.
All of it points to one thing: Certain people only turn out when their scared about their PERSONAL security, not their COUNTRY's safety/security
I explain the missing voters as unserious people and bad citizens who didn't fucking show up, Notmy. 2020 was about COVID. If COVID hadn't happened, Trump probably would have won reelection.
I think if he hadn't bungled the RESPONSE to COVID, he would have won.