I don't have time to write a long treatise comparing 2024 to 1968, but I watched the protests of 1968 and the chaos in Chicago happen in real time, not in person, but live on TV, and I can say with conviction: 2024, you ain't no 1968.
The main reason in a nutshell: young people in 1968 were protesting a senseless war being conducted by th…
I don't have time to write a long treatise comparing 2024 to 1968, but I watched the protests of 1968 and the chaos in Chicago happen in real time, not in person, but live on TV, and I can say with conviction: 2024, you ain't no 1968.
The main reason in a nutshell: young people in 1968 were protesting a senseless war being conducted by their *own* government in which thousands of Americans had already been killed. That's not even counting the deaths of innocent Vietnamese. The protesters -- at least the young men among them -- had actual skin in the game, and by 1968 they had had enough of the lies and the killing on both sides. Some of their lives were literally at stake.
In 2024, there are many reasons to protest the terrible destruction and death wrought by the Israelis in Gaza, and especially since it's happening with the support of our own government. But when one sees Intafada signs hanging from occupied buildings, a hear "from-the-river-to-the-sea" chants ringing across campuses nationwide, one cannot help but draw the conclusion that protestors in 2024 are not protesting against atrocious Israeli policies and tactics, they are shouting at the top of their lungs their support for Hamas, a terrorist organization that wants Jews dead and Israel wiped off the map. (Don't take my word for it. Read the Hamas charter.) Talk about being on the wrong side of history.
So while 1968 protestors were not babes in the woods and certainly did not do everything right, 2024 protestors seem not to even understand the issue they're supposedly upset about, or how to make that displeasure known without appearing to be anti-semites --- all while having no skin in the game whatsoever. (Did they really ask for food after taking over Hamilton Hall?)
You said everything I wanted to say, almost. It will be horrific if tfg gets to pollute the office of POTUS again because of Netanyahu. Hamas is utterly evil, but Netanyahu was warned of the attack and let it happen, allowing him to save his job and stay out of prison with the Israeli response. As to the two eras of protest, you are absolutely right. We also had teach-ins back in 1968. By chance, our national college debate topic that year was about Presidential control of foreign policy, and my teammates and I knew the history of Vietnam intimately, from before WWII onward. We knew it was a terrible, pointless, self-defeating war. We did not learn before the election (I had campaigned for Bobby Kennedy) that Nixon had torpedoed the peace efforts to keep the war as an issue, like tfg killed the border bill this year for the same reason.
Today’s demonstrators don’t know the complex history of the Middle East or don’t care to learn. But they may help to bring down President Biden. If they do, they will find out how bad things can really get in Gaza with an unrestrained Netanyahu. And will gift us with a seething, vengeful, utterly self-centered, immoral and dangerous POTUS who will make Nixon look like a saint in comparison. Sadly, I think that is going to happen. God help us and the world if it does.
Roy Schulz, I think you are spot on . I am really really worried this will happen in this election too and the protesters and students will help Trump win.
Immediately flying to Israel after 10/7 and personally hugging Bibi Netanyahu for the cameras may turn out to be the worst political mistake Joe Biden ever made. Knowing Netanyahu's character and his love of Trump, I cringed watching it. Now Joe may lose the election (in part) because of it. God help us indeed.
What's the difference between "Hanoi Jane" Fonda going to North Vietnam and berating POWs and protesters hanging an "Intifada" sign? Other than the former arguably being high treason, I mean.
I was at the Democratic Convention. It was a quite an experience in many ways. My chief take-way from 1968 is that though the Viet Cong were Communists, the domino theory was insufficient reason to do what all we did there. I have pointed out the the Viet Cong were not keen to annihilate anybody, like Hamas; only to run the country as they saw fit.
I was a 16-year-old summer volunteer at the office of Scientists and Engineers for [Eugene] McCarthy in Baltimore. Nixon nominated Spiro Agnew (Marylanders already knew he was corrupt) at the convention. The college students who managed the office came back from Chicago bandaged up and on crutches. I have been an active liberal Democrat forever after.
Yes, 1968 was very different from today. Now I ardently support Ukraine in its war for survival. Still, we have to take seriously all the data, all the history, and all the precedents as we gear up to stop the MAGA authoritarian attempt.
Seth Abramson has a new sub-stack on the subject of Right Wing insurrectionists laying the groundwork for another coup by promoting violence at the various schools. I haven't read it yet.
I was 18, a kid in from the suburbs. I was amazed that all these guys with long hair were able to travel. In my world, long hair meant unemployment... .
Let us not forget that the man who became Ho Chi Minh was a worker in the Parker House Hotel in Boston, among other jobs all over the world. He approached the US government for support for their attempts to overthrow colonial rule by the French, using the US foundational documents in his petition, and was rebuffed because of some crazy-ass theory of “communism” that was rampant in the 1950s US. And then ... for the want of a nail...
I don't have time to write a long treatise comparing 2024 to 1968, but I watched the protests of 1968 and the chaos in Chicago happen in real time, not in person, but live on TV, and I can say with conviction: 2024, you ain't no 1968.
The main reason in a nutshell: young people in 1968 were protesting a senseless war being conducted by their *own* government in which thousands of Americans had already been killed. That's not even counting the deaths of innocent Vietnamese. The protesters -- at least the young men among them -- had actual skin in the game, and by 1968 they had had enough of the lies and the killing on both sides. Some of their lives were literally at stake.
In 2024, there are many reasons to protest the terrible destruction and death wrought by the Israelis in Gaza, and especially since it's happening with the support of our own government. But when one sees Intafada signs hanging from occupied buildings, a hear "from-the-river-to-the-sea" chants ringing across campuses nationwide, one cannot help but draw the conclusion that protestors in 2024 are not protesting against atrocious Israeli policies and tactics, they are shouting at the top of their lungs their support for Hamas, a terrorist organization that wants Jews dead and Israel wiped off the map. (Don't take my word for it. Read the Hamas charter.) Talk about being on the wrong side of history.
So while 1968 protestors were not babes in the woods and certainly did not do everything right, 2024 protestors seem not to even understand the issue they're supposedly upset about, or how to make that displeasure known without appearing to be anti-semites --- all while having no skin in the game whatsoever. (Did they really ask for food after taking over Hamilton Hall?)
I knew 1968. 2024,you are no 1968.
You said everything I wanted to say, almost. It will be horrific if tfg gets to pollute the office of POTUS again because of Netanyahu. Hamas is utterly evil, but Netanyahu was warned of the attack and let it happen, allowing him to save his job and stay out of prison with the Israeli response. As to the two eras of protest, you are absolutely right. We also had teach-ins back in 1968. By chance, our national college debate topic that year was about Presidential control of foreign policy, and my teammates and I knew the history of Vietnam intimately, from before WWII onward. We knew it was a terrible, pointless, self-defeating war. We did not learn before the election (I had campaigned for Bobby Kennedy) that Nixon had torpedoed the peace efforts to keep the war as an issue, like tfg killed the border bill this year for the same reason.
Today’s demonstrators don’t know the complex history of the Middle East or don’t care to learn. But they may help to bring down President Biden. If they do, they will find out how bad things can really get in Gaza with an unrestrained Netanyahu. And will gift us with a seething, vengeful, utterly self-centered, immoral and dangerous POTUS who will make Nixon look like a saint in comparison. Sadly, I think that is going to happen. God help us and the world if it does.
Roy Schulz, I think you are spot on . I am really really worried this will happen in this election too and the protesters and students will help Trump win.
Immediately flying to Israel after 10/7 and personally hugging Bibi Netanyahu for the cameras may turn out to be the worst political mistake Joe Biden ever made. Knowing Netanyahu's character and his love of Trump, I cringed watching it. Now Joe may lose the election (in part) because of it. God help us indeed.
“From the River to the Sea, then SmartWater ‘n KFC”
A+
What's the difference between "Hanoi Jane" Fonda going to North Vietnam and berating POWs and protesters hanging an "Intifada" sign? Other than the former arguably being high treason, I mean.
I was at the Democratic Convention. It was a quite an experience in many ways. My chief take-way from 1968 is that though the Viet Cong were Communists, the domino theory was insufficient reason to do what all we did there. I have pointed out the the Viet Cong were not keen to annihilate anybody, like Hamas; only to run the country as they saw fit.
Fun Fact:Charlie Sykes was at the 68 convention. (he was 13).And his dad was a McCarthy man.
I was a 16-year-old summer volunteer at the office of Scientists and Engineers for [Eugene] McCarthy in Baltimore. Nixon nominated Spiro Agnew (Marylanders already knew he was corrupt) at the convention. The college students who managed the office came back from Chicago bandaged up and on crutches. I have been an active liberal Democrat forever after.
Yes, 1968 was very different from today. Now I ardently support Ukraine in its war for survival. Still, we have to take seriously all the data, all the history, and all the precedents as we gear up to stop the MAGA authoritarian attempt.
I saw another Bulwark reply that said hopefully there won't be any protests by convention time.Trumpster would love that.(Mr. crimefighter himself)
Seth Abramson has a new sub-stack on the subject of Right Wing insurrectionists laying the groundwork for another coup by promoting violence at the various schools. I haven't read it yet.
I was 18, a kid in from the suburbs. I was amazed that all these guys with long hair were able to travel. In my world, long hair meant unemployment... .
I was 14. Quite an impressionable year!
Let us not forget that the man who became Ho Chi Minh was a worker in the Parker House Hotel in Boston, among other jobs all over the world. He approached the US government for support for their attempts to overthrow colonial rule by the French, using the US foundational documents in his petition, and was rebuffed because of some crazy-ass theory of “communism” that was rampant in the 1950s US. And then ... for the want of a nail...
Yes, he was quite a guy. I was just reading that be used as many as 200 aliases--but, of course, that was Wikipedia....
There’s a great documentary on him on PBS. I think it might be a Frontline. Worth a look.
And the first line of their declaration of independence quoted the US declaration of independence.
https://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5139/
2014?
Thanks for proof-reading :-) Those dang 1s and 2s are too close together on the keyboard. At least I got the first one right.
'Salright. We all have those moments from time to time.