Are you saying Alito won't look out his window at the mob and have a Scrooge-like change of heart and agree to uphold Roe? Didn't Trump becoming moderate and responsible after the women's march in 2017 and didn't we leave Iraq after marches in 2002 against the war?
I couldn't agree with your sentiment more. These protests are performance…
Are you saying Alito won't look out his window at the mob and have a Scrooge-like change of heart and agree to uphold Roe? Didn't Trump becoming moderate and responsible after the women's march in 2017 and didn't we leave Iraq after marches in 2002 against the war?
I couldn't agree with your sentiment more. These protests are performance art and the people there want their white progressive street cred badge to add to their shirt.
I wouldn't say they're performance art. They're emotional outlets. I had this discussion with someone, asking why people were protesting outside Kavanaugh's house. My view was that this didn't make sense, as the guy who was trolling everyone was Thomas, and the guy who authored the opinion was Alito, so it didn't make sense to me to protest outside of Kavanaugh's house. The response I got was that it was emotional, not rational. And that made sense to me.
Is there some performance art going on? Yeah. But I think that protests like these are generally an emotional outpouring where people don't know how or where to take their energy. This is made worse by a democratic party that fundamentally does not know how to use their grassroots the way the GOP does. As a result, private groups fill the gap.
It's because, if you believe even some of the allegations against Kavanaugh, he has a history of disrespecting women's bodily autonomy in his personal life. Despite this, he was elevated to a position of power. He has used his power to roll back the amount of bodily autonomy for all women in America. Thomas and Alito may claim to oppose Roe on a matter of principle or constitutional overreach or whatever. You can credibly argue though that Kavanaugh just doesn't care about women's bodily autonomy.
Maybe it's also a feeling that Kavanaugh is the most unfit of four unfit judges. The most unqualfied. Tying with Thomas for whiniest. Thomas and Alito are the most ideological, Barrett possibly the most radical but not always insane. To me Thomas, Kavanaugh and Barrett do NOT belong on the Court, have never been qualified or fit for it. Gorsuch, while illegitimately on the court in a stolen seat (as were all of Trump appointees IMHO but Gorsuch most obviously), is at least qualified.
The problem is that Gorsuch is effectively a pro-corporatist shill--which is why he got the spot ITFP. That is an aspect of this whole thing that a lot of people miss--it isn't JUST about abortion. There is a whole slew of things that the GoP wishes to do away with that these people would be behind because of their ideological position as "originalists."
That's exactly correct! Gorsuch (who is from CO and I am familiar with his family) is at least an experienced jurist. But he is part of the ideology of "originalist" which aims to raze the social safety net and social contract of the country.
BTW, "originalist" -- which Scalia raised to hide behind when indulging his own activism, while bemoaning the 9th circuit "activists" -- is not accurate the way it is used. The SCOTUS Republicans are no more honest than congressional ones and statehouse ones, especially in justifying their dishonest and unconstitutional behaviors. "Originalist" is Scalia meant "my interpretation." Kind of like the Marbury v Madison court which made itself the final arbiter over much more than the Constitution gave it to decide.
Even then an actually originalist reading of the Constitution isn't something that many contemporary Americans would actually like.
The contemporary US is largely a creation of the Civil War and it overturned a lot of the original concept of the US (because the original concept failed and failed pretty hard).
I wouldn't call these protests performance art but they are definitely in the category of "protests to create a narrative" and "protests to begin organizing" than they are protests designed to affect the outcome. I think most protestors probably think the outcome - Roe being overturned - is baked in.
People have been protesting in front of homes for awhile and I understand the mixed feelings on that, but I would hardly characterize these protests as "hostile."
Exactly. When they start bringing guns like what happened to the election officials, health officials, school board members, mask proponents, vaccine proponents, doctors and nurses, hospitals, etc...then it becomes hostile. These current protestors are well aware that there were ZERO consequences for all the armed protests. Unfortunately, this is what happens when real problems are routinely shrugged off. In a perfect world I would not agree with the home protests. Just like I was furious the last 2 years about all the home protests I mentioned that were actually armed, with signs and verbage and phone calls literally threatening lives. At this point though, as long as no one gets hurt, I am basically a what's good for the goose is good for the gander person. The right will predictably weaponize this, but their votes are already locked in. I do worry about how this will affect swing voters, however. They support the issue but may sour due to escalating protest tactics. They are the ones that really decide elections in many places, especially nationally.
I am not convinced that a group of people - specifically women who appear to be mostly over the age of 40 - holding signs and chanting non-violent slogans are a reasonable threat to anyone.
There were protests where no punches were thrown, no property was destroyed, and no arrests were made. About as non-threatening as a protest can get.
Then again, that a certain of people is terrified of women disagreeing them says a lot about their psyche.
You do realize, don't you, that Roe goes way beyond allowing "some" abortions. It requires states to allow ALL abortions during the first two trimesters.
Are you saying Alito won't look out his window at the mob and have a Scrooge-like change of heart and agree to uphold Roe? Didn't Trump becoming moderate and responsible after the women's march in 2017 and didn't we leave Iraq after marches in 2002 against the war?
I couldn't agree with your sentiment more. These protests are performance art and the people there want their white progressive street cred badge to add to their shirt.
"Didn't Trump becoming moderate and responsible after the women's march in 2017?" Absolutely not.
I wouldn't say they're performance art. They're emotional outlets. I had this discussion with someone, asking why people were protesting outside Kavanaugh's house. My view was that this didn't make sense, as the guy who was trolling everyone was Thomas, and the guy who authored the opinion was Alito, so it didn't make sense to me to protest outside of Kavanaugh's house. The response I got was that it was emotional, not rational. And that made sense to me.
Is there some performance art going on? Yeah. But I think that protests like these are generally an emotional outpouring where people don't know how or where to take their energy. This is made worse by a democratic party that fundamentally does not know how to use their grassroots the way the GOP does. As a result, private groups fill the gap.
It's because, if you believe even some of the allegations against Kavanaugh, he has a history of disrespecting women's bodily autonomy in his personal life. Despite this, he was elevated to a position of power. He has used his power to roll back the amount of bodily autonomy for all women in America. Thomas and Alito may claim to oppose Roe on a matter of principle or constitutional overreach or whatever. You can credibly argue though that Kavanaugh just doesn't care about women's bodily autonomy.
Maybe it's also a feeling that Kavanaugh is the most unfit of four unfit judges. The most unqualfied. Tying with Thomas for whiniest. Thomas and Alito are the most ideological, Barrett possibly the most radical but not always insane. To me Thomas, Kavanaugh and Barrett do NOT belong on the Court, have never been qualified or fit for it. Gorsuch, while illegitimately on the court in a stolen seat (as were all of Trump appointees IMHO but Gorsuch most obviously), is at least qualified.
The problem is that Gorsuch is effectively a pro-corporatist shill--which is why he got the spot ITFP. That is an aspect of this whole thing that a lot of people miss--it isn't JUST about abortion. There is a whole slew of things that the GoP wishes to do away with that these people would be behind because of their ideological position as "originalists."
That's exactly correct! Gorsuch (who is from CO and I am familiar with his family) is at least an experienced jurist. But he is part of the ideology of "originalist" which aims to raze the social safety net and social contract of the country.
BTW, "originalist" -- which Scalia raised to hide behind when indulging his own activism, while bemoaning the 9th circuit "activists" -- is not accurate the way it is used. The SCOTUS Republicans are no more honest than congressional ones and statehouse ones, especially in justifying their dishonest and unconstitutional behaviors. "Originalist" is Scalia meant "my interpretation." Kind of like the Marbury v Madison court which made itself the final arbiter over much more than the Constitution gave it to decide.
That is why it was "originalist."
Even then an actually originalist reading of the Constitution isn't something that many contemporary Americans would actually like.
The contemporary US is largely a creation of the Civil War and it overturned a lot of the original concept of the US (because the original concept failed and failed pretty hard).
I hadn't connected that. Good point.
I wouldn't call these protests performance art but they are definitely in the category of "protests to create a narrative" and "protests to begin organizing" than they are protests designed to affect the outcome. I think most protestors probably think the outcome - Roe being overturned - is baked in.
The problem is that the narrative of being hostile outside residential homes is not the narrative they are probably trying to do.
Women have gotten screamed at and called names while entering and exiting Planned Parenthood for years.
People have been protesting in front of homes for awhile and I understand the mixed feelings on that, but I would hardly characterize these protests as "hostile."
Exactly. When they start bringing guns like what happened to the election officials, health officials, school board members, mask proponents, vaccine proponents, doctors and nurses, hospitals, etc...then it becomes hostile. These current protestors are well aware that there were ZERO consequences for all the armed protests. Unfortunately, this is what happens when real problems are routinely shrugged off. In a perfect world I would not agree with the home protests. Just like I was furious the last 2 years about all the home protests I mentioned that were actually armed, with signs and verbage and phone calls literally threatening lives. At this point though, as long as no one gets hurt, I am basically a what's good for the goose is good for the gander person. The right will predictably weaponize this, but their votes are already locked in. I do worry about how this will affect swing voters, however. They support the issue but may sour due to escalating protest tactics. They are the ones that really decide elections in many places, especially nationally.
I am not convinced that a group of people - specifically women who appear to be mostly over the age of 40 - holding signs and chanting non-violent slogans are a reasonable threat to anyone.
There were protests where no punches were thrown, no property was destroyed, and no arrests were made. About as non-threatening as a protest can get.
Then again, that a certain of people is terrified of women disagreeing them says a lot about their psyche.
You do realize, don't you, that Roe goes way beyond allowing "some" abortions. It requires states to allow ALL abortions during the first two trimesters.
I don't think you're right about that.
Apparently it doesn't, because that isn't what happens.
I meant performative in that they won’t change the opinions of any justice.