Reading through this I thought of something I haven't in a long time. Keith "Worst Person In The World" Olberman. He was over the top, a little crazy, and right about the post Gingrich-Linbaugh-Luntz party.
Re Trump's praise of Hezbollah....did the crowd clap and cheer when Trump called them "smart"? I'd find it sort of hard to believe that a rando crowd in a high school gym in West Palm Beach would even know what Hezbollah is. If they did cheer, maybe they thought they were the good guys?
I cannot find any redemption in my record of voting. I am complicit in all of this. I abdicated my obligations in so many ballots by blindly checking the box when there was no other option in election after election. I never realized that if there was not other names or option that I didn't or couldn't abstain from that vote or write in another option. I just assumed that where there was the inevitable or only name that is who I had to vote for. That explains my voting education, which was nil. We just figured that since there was only one option we had to vote for that person. I have learned otherwise and taught my children the same. Write in anyone, don't vote blindly for the only option. Not maybe the right thread for this but it might find its way through the fog of all the rest that is happening. I cannot help Israel right now, I cannot help much more than the last months of my life trying to save my mom, and that is selfish, but some days I just need to breathe. Like too many people in multiple horrendous places, life just shrinks down to who you can help now.
Re the Left, one of the few things Left and Right share are poisonous subgroups of antisemites. The main reason those on the Right may not be as noticeable is that they're cheering both sides in Israel to kill as many on the other side as possible.
Trump has thrown the evangelicals under the bus now twice, on issues they care deeply about that are core to their beliefs -- abortion and Israel. How much longer can they keep supporting him?
Yeah, I figured this comment was unlikely to elicit more than flippant put-downs, but I thought it was worth a try.
People, we need to try harder to understand the opposition -- if not for their sakes, then for our own. (And if that makes you "tired" or "exhausted," then leave the field and take a rest and come back when you're ready. There's a reason it's called work. It will always be work.)
Flippant put-downs do not win elections. They lose elections.
I figure those Evangelicals who are expecting Armageddon any day now may figure Trump as either God's or Satan's change agent. Don't hold your breath waiting for them to doubt they're in the End Times.
(1) Revelations is not a cause, it's a prophecy. (If that distinction is difficult to grasp, I can help: a cause is something you /try to make/ happen; a prophecy is something you /believe will/ happen no matter what you do.)
(2) Many Evangelicals oppose Trump.
(3) Snide putdowns of entire religious groups are disrespectful and ignorant and do not represent what the anti-Trump/pro-democracy movement is supposed to be.
If you ask them, you'll find many evangelicals do believe that it is "important to support Israel" *because* of Israel's role in God's plan for the establishment of Christ's millennial kingdom on Earth. In other words, they talk about the prophecy as a cause.
Generalizations are always imprecise. Common, if regrettable, jargon is to skip qualifying groups as 'most x'.
My point, which you seem unwilling to consider, is that Trump appeals to many who do believe we're in the End Times. They want a big, world-ending war, and Trump is ideally suited in terms of (lack of) intellect, character and temper to give them what they expect.
I'll consider contrition for painting Evangelicals with a broad brush as soon as I notice significant numbers of them PUBLICLY coming out against Trump.
It would be amazing if Trump's comments about Israel/Hamas situation actually did split his support among the MAGA folks. None of the bizarre things he has done and said so far have made a dent in his support. His supporters can't seem to take off their rose colored glasses even for a moment to consider what kind of person he really is. If he continues to rage at every new event that occurs, and we know he will, eventually he may cross that line where his support becomes divided. We can only hope that this is the first of several such instances.
Really, Ms. Beckerman.... And I suppose, Charlie..... "The Left" abandoned you?
What--if I may be so bold as to inquire--have you all "abandoned"?
"Israel appears to use white phosphorus in Gaza, video shows," Meg Kelly, 10/12 WAPO
"More than 1,500 people dead in Gaza and hundreds of thousands displaced by the Israeli military’s relentless bombardment of the Gaza Strip," 10/13 WAPO
I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed. We are fighting human animals, and we will act accordingly.
--Yoav Gallant, Israel Defense Minister
"Israel orders 1 million Gazans to evacuate; U.N. says that’s impossible" 10/13 WAPO
"Israel says it will end Hamas rule in Gaza as casualties soar"--End Hamas rule. Maybe drive them into the sea? I mention this, apropos of nothing.
"The toll in Gaza from six days of airstrikes has reached 1,537 killed, including 500 children and 276 women, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry — rapidly approaching the more than 2,000 killed in the 2014 war even before the start of the ground invasion." WAPO 10/13
“Humanitarian aid to Gaza? No electrical switch will be lifted, no water hydrant will be opened and no fuel truck will enter until the Israeli hostages are returned home. Humanitarian for humanitarian. And nobody should preach us morals."
--Israel Katz, Israel's Defense Minister.
Israel is responding to the crimes by Hamas by committing increasingly brutal crimes against humanity....
But meanwhile..... What--the half a dozen Americans who are still "the left"? They've "abandoned" you?
Hold on.... Let wipe my weepy eyes, for the shame of it all.
I really don't understand why the Bulwark is throwing it's back out trying to find the "antisemitic left". Two members of Congress and student organizations on "college campuses" (do they even really exist anymore? Isn't it mostly zoom?) have absolutely ZERO say. Why not just attribute random stuff written in bathroom stalls to "the left"?
Does reading the Atlantic and the New York Times count as "throwing one's back out" to find leftist antisemitism?
Is acknowledging antisemitism on the left an unfair attack on "the left" even when OTHER PEOPLE ON THE LEFT write about it because they see enough of it to disturb them?
The existence of antisemitism on the left has hardly been a secret, except perhaps to those who don't want to acknowledge anything ethically bad coming from the left at all. And the idea that college student organizations -- and faculty and administrators -- have nothing to do with "the left" at large is a bit strange.
The antisemitism doesn't always take the form of straight-up defense of Hamas terrorism (or marching around in Nazi garb). More often, it's a matter of holding Israel -- i.e., the Jews -- ultimately responsible for any evils that Palestinian Arabs commit against them. It might be hedged a bit, e.g. "I don't justify what the terrorists did, but they were provoked!"
IOW, the Jews made the Arabs do terrible things -- but the Arabs could not have provoked the Jews to do unpleasant things in this calculus.
That way of thinking has been rather commonplace in left-wing commentary on the Middle East. Maybe the horror and scale of the recent Hamas attack made some people rethink the matter of moral accountability, though there's still a lot of "Yes it was horrible, but ...."
Pointing at 4 people calling it "the left" is a pure straw man. Who cares what a couple of students (who never actually remember to vote anyway) say? Meanwhile there are actual neo-nazis speaking at Republican party rallys. The only way you find antisemitism on the left is if you work really really hard.
I always enjoy Dennis Aftergut's contributions to the Bulwark, and often learn something from them. But Copy Desk, please remind him that Hezbollah is LEBANON-based, not "Jordan-based".
Something new: "The New York Times BREAKING NEWS In a surprise move, Representative Austin Scott of Georgia, a little-known Kevin McCarthy ally, said he would seek the House speakership. Friday, October 13, 2023 2:24 PM ET By putting himself forward, Mr. Scott effectively made himself a protest candidate against the hard-right Representative Jim Jordan of Ohio." Never heard of him. Will google.
I’m not ordinarily a conspiracy theorist, but I really do think that we’re going to find Trump behind this shift to Jordan and Scalise dropping out. It just doesn’t pass the smell test for me. Please convince me I’m acting crazy, someone!
I absolutely love the description of “Clowns with Flamethrowers” and as with any phrase I like, I overuse it continually. It is perfect, because:
1) CLOWNS - 95+% of elected GOP are absolutely do not possess the skills, aptitude, or temperament for the job. (That number is 100% of soon to be nominated GOP Presidential candidate
2) FLAMETHROWER - They wield enormous power to shape and destroy 250 years of successful democracy and alter our lives beyond repair
Actually, real clowns - the ones who do entertainment - are usually very philosophical humanitarian people whose goal is to help people by doing something simple but beautiful, something delightful that causes people to laugh. Most actual clowns are quite special. It saddens me that the profession is being twisted to mean irresponsible manipulators who cause deliberate harm. But such are the times we live in.
Gal Beckerman, and many others needs to walk away from Twitter and become more discriminating in their participation in social media platforms.
Personally I don't expect anyone to feel anything about my personal anguish over things I neither control nor am directly suffering. Don't they have enough anguish of their own without having mine inflicted upon them, too? I have family and friends to share with. I don't need randos on the internet to agree or disagree with me and make me sad. Even in this I can agree to disagree without taking it personally. Humans, even the best of them, are frequently disappointing, wrong, ignorant or even bad actors but how I feel about them is none of their (or anyone else's) business.
So much of the television coverage has bordered on atrocity porn. I have read accounts from the AP about many of the atrocities and was appalled in what I read... the descriptions were accurate and I felt like I understood what was happening to the people attacked. My imagination works perfectly fine so I can picture what I read. But I did not need to have shot after shot , in video after video, of sobbing traumatized people to understand that there are people suffering. That no one deserves to suffer like that. The only thing I can compare it to is gawkers standing around watching dead bodies strewn around a car wreck. Psychic voyeurism. And then there is the proverbial reporter talking to the woman whose children were just swept away in a flood and then asks: "How are you feeling about the loss of your kids?" REALLY?
Be prudent in media consumption. Avoid promiscuous engagement with social media. You will feel better and be just as well informed.
The United States of America cannot disavow its own complicity in this interminable Semitic tribal violence. For decades we have unequivocally backed Israel, as they dominated the Palestinians with impunity - all with the determination to keep them a stateless people.
The solution to his conflict is as plain as day. The Palestinians need their own state, they need to actually have something to *lose.* Israel needs to accommodate this by returning to some approximation of the pre-'67 borders. The Occupation needs to be ended for ever, and the West Bank turned over to the Palestinians as a contiguous, wholly sovereign state. So much the worse of the (illegal) Israeli settlements: the Settlers can stay in their homes, or be compensated if they return to Israel; but if they remain, they will become Palestinian citizens. Moreover this final settlement should be made a part of a grand bargain with as many Arab and Muslim states in the region as possible, all offering Israel full diplomatic recognition in return for this creation of a fully sovereingn state of Palestine.
Of course we have long since passed the point where the Israelis would accept this resolution of the conflict. Israelis like Netanyahu have adopted the not-so-tacit position that constant terrorist blowback is an acceptable price to pay for Israel being able to act with impunity. The majority of Israelis seem to have taken that position, as well - something which at this hour they may have cause to re-consider.
In the end, this cycle of tribal violence will continue unabated, either until Israel has achieved the full ethnic cleansing of the West Bank & Gaza - or until Israel and Iran destroy each other in a nuclear war. The only way to break this cycle is for the Western powers - led by the U.S. - to intervene and impose terms on both parties - but particularly on the Israelis.
Reading through this I thought of something I haven't in a long time. Keith "Worst Person In The World" Olberman. He was over the top, a little crazy, and right about the post Gingrich-Linbaugh-Luntz party.
He was--and is--right about a lot of stuff. He's over the top often and probably insufferable in person, but he is not stupid.
Re Trump's praise of Hezbollah....did the crowd clap and cheer when Trump called them "smart"? I'd find it sort of hard to believe that a rando crowd in a high school gym in West Palm Beach would even know what Hezbollah is. If they did cheer, maybe they thought they were the good guys?
I cannot find any redemption in my record of voting. I am complicit in all of this. I abdicated my obligations in so many ballots by blindly checking the box when there was no other option in election after election. I never realized that if there was not other names or option that I didn't or couldn't abstain from that vote or write in another option. I just assumed that where there was the inevitable or only name that is who I had to vote for. That explains my voting education, which was nil. We just figured that since there was only one option we had to vote for that person. I have learned otherwise and taught my children the same. Write in anyone, don't vote blindly for the only option. Not maybe the right thread for this but it might find its way through the fog of all the rest that is happening. I cannot help Israel right now, I cannot help much more than the last months of my life trying to save my mom, and that is selfish, but some days I just need to breathe. Like too many people in multiple horrendous places, life just shrinks down to who you can help now.
Re the Left, one of the few things Left and Right share are poisonous subgroups of antisemites. The main reason those on the Right may not be as noticeable is that they're cheering both sides in Israel to kill as many on the other side as possible.
Trump has thrown the evangelicals under the bus now twice, on issues they care deeply about that are core to their beliefs -- abortion and Israel. How much longer can they keep supporting him?
Fevers do break.
Yeah, I figured this comment was unlikely to elicit more than flippant put-downs, but I thought it was worth a try.
People, we need to try harder to understand the opposition -- if not for their sakes, then for our own. (And if that makes you "tired" or "exhausted," then leave the field and take a rest and come back when you're ready. There's a reason it's called work. It will always be work.)
Flippant put-downs do not win elections. They lose elections.
I figure those Evangelicals who are expecting Armageddon any day now may figure Trump as either God's or Satan's change agent. Don't hold your breath waiting for them to doubt they're in the End Times.
And why should they doubt it? They're allowed their religious beliefs. And presumably end times or no they can still vote.
And they'll vote for Trump because he's advancing the cause of Revelations.
This is mistaken on at least three counts.
(1) Revelations is not a cause, it's a prophecy. (If that distinction is difficult to grasp, I can help: a cause is something you /try to make/ happen; a prophecy is something you /believe will/ happen no matter what you do.)
(2) Many Evangelicals oppose Trump.
(3) Snide putdowns of entire religious groups are disrespectful and ignorant and do not represent what the anti-Trump/pro-democracy movement is supposed to be.
If you ask them, you'll find many evangelicals do believe that it is "important to support Israel" *because* of Israel's role in God's plan for the establishment of Christ's millennial kingdom on Earth. In other words, they talk about the prophecy as a cause.
Generalizations are always imprecise. Common, if regrettable, jargon is to skip qualifying groups as 'most x'.
My point, which you seem unwilling to consider, is that Trump appeals to many who do believe we're in the End Times. They want a big, world-ending war, and Trump is ideally suited in terms of (lack of) intellect, character and temper to give them what they expect.
I'll consider contrition for painting Evangelicals with a broad brush as soon as I notice significant numbers of them PUBLICLY coming out against Trump.
Not if it’s Chronic (by that I mean a particular potent strain.)
Can you please provide a link to transcripts to podcasts? A loy of your readers are just that: they prefer to read.
It would be amazing if Trump's comments about Israel/Hamas situation actually did split his support among the MAGA folks. None of the bizarre things he has done and said so far have made a dent in his support. His supporters can't seem to take off their rose colored glasses even for a moment to consider what kind of person he really is. If he continues to rage at every new event that occurs, and we know he will, eventually he may cross that line where his support becomes divided. We can only hope that this is the first of several such instances.
"The Left Abandoned Me."
Really, Ms. Beckerman.... And I suppose, Charlie..... "The Left" abandoned you?
What--if I may be so bold as to inquire--have you all "abandoned"?
"Israel appears to use white phosphorus in Gaza, video shows," Meg Kelly, 10/12 WAPO
"More than 1,500 people dead in Gaza and hundreds of thousands displaced by the Israeli military’s relentless bombardment of the Gaza Strip," 10/13 WAPO
I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed. We are fighting human animals, and we will act accordingly.
--Yoav Gallant, Israel Defense Minister
"Israel orders 1 million Gazans to evacuate; U.N. says that’s impossible" 10/13 WAPO
"Israel says it will end Hamas rule in Gaza as casualties soar"--End Hamas rule. Maybe drive them into the sea? I mention this, apropos of nothing.
"The toll in Gaza from six days of airstrikes has reached 1,537 killed, including 500 children and 276 women, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry — rapidly approaching the more than 2,000 killed in the 2014 war even before the start of the ground invasion." WAPO 10/13
“Humanitarian aid to Gaza? No electrical switch will be lifted, no water hydrant will be opened and no fuel truck will enter until the Israeli hostages are returned home. Humanitarian for humanitarian. And nobody should preach us morals."
--Israel Katz, Israel's Defense Minister.
Israel is responding to the crimes by Hamas by committing increasingly brutal crimes against humanity....
But meanwhile..... What--the half a dozen Americans who are still "the left"? They've "abandoned" you?
Hold on.... Let wipe my weepy eyes, for the shame of it all.
From a New Yorker cartoon:
“Son, if you can’t say something nice, say something clever but devastating” -Emily Flake
Liz Cheney for speaker
I really don't understand why the Bulwark is throwing it's back out trying to find the "antisemitic left". Two members of Congress and student organizations on "college campuses" (do they even really exist anymore? Isn't it mostly zoom?) have absolutely ZERO say. Why not just attribute random stuff written in bathroom stalls to "the left"?
Does reading the Atlantic and the New York Times count as "throwing one's back out" to find leftist antisemitism?
Is acknowledging antisemitism on the left an unfair attack on "the left" even when OTHER PEOPLE ON THE LEFT write about it because they see enough of it to disturb them?
The existence of antisemitism on the left has hardly been a secret, except perhaps to those who don't want to acknowledge anything ethically bad coming from the left at all. And the idea that college student organizations -- and faculty and administrators -- have nothing to do with "the left" at large is a bit strange.
The antisemitism doesn't always take the form of straight-up defense of Hamas terrorism (or marching around in Nazi garb). More often, it's a matter of holding Israel -- i.e., the Jews -- ultimately responsible for any evils that Palestinian Arabs commit against them. It might be hedged a bit, e.g. "I don't justify what the terrorists did, but they were provoked!"
IOW, the Jews made the Arabs do terrible things -- but the Arabs could not have provoked the Jews to do unpleasant things in this calculus.
That way of thinking has been rather commonplace in left-wing commentary on the Middle East. Maybe the horror and scale of the recent Hamas attack made some people rethink the matter of moral accountability, though there's still a lot of "Yes it was horrible, but ...."
Pointing at 4 people calling it "the left" is a pure straw man. Who cares what a couple of students (who never actually remember to vote anyway) say? Meanwhile there are actual neo-nazis speaking at Republican party rallys. The only way you find antisemitism on the left is if you work really really hard.
I always enjoy Dennis Aftergut's contributions to the Bulwark, and often learn something from them. But Copy Desk, please remind him that Hezbollah is LEBANON-based, not "Jordan-based".
“I'm sick and tired of facts. You can twist 'em any way you like. Know what I mean?”
-12 Angry Men (Reginald Rose)
Something new: "The New York Times BREAKING NEWS In a surprise move, Representative Austin Scott of Georgia, a little-known Kevin McCarthy ally, said he would seek the House speakership. Friday, October 13, 2023 2:24 PM ET By putting himself forward, Mr. Scott effectively made himself a protest candidate against the hard-right Representative Jim Jordan of Ohio." Never heard of him. Will google.
He actually sounds sane. See https://austinscott.house.gov/legislative-accomplishments. Which of course means he doesn't have a prayer against the crazies. To be honest, he sounds a lot like a moderate D.
I’m not ordinarily a conspiracy theorist, but I really do think that we’re going to find Trump behind this shift to Jordan and Scalise dropping out. It just doesn’t pass the smell test for me. Please convince me I’m acting crazy, someone!
I absolutely love the description of “Clowns with Flamethrowers” and as with any phrase I like, I overuse it continually. It is perfect, because:
1) CLOWNS - 95+% of elected GOP are absolutely do not possess the skills, aptitude, or temperament for the job. (That number is 100% of soon to be nominated GOP Presidential candidate
2) FLAMETHROWER - They wield enormous power to shape and destroy 250 years of successful democracy and alter our lives beyond repair
Actually, real clowns - the ones who do entertainment - are usually very philosophical humanitarian people whose goal is to help people by doing something simple but beautiful, something delightful that causes people to laugh. Most actual clowns are quite special. It saddens me that the profession is being twisted to mean irresponsible manipulators who cause deliberate harm. But such are the times we live in.
Gal Beckerman, and many others needs to walk away from Twitter and become more discriminating in their participation in social media platforms.
Personally I don't expect anyone to feel anything about my personal anguish over things I neither control nor am directly suffering. Don't they have enough anguish of their own without having mine inflicted upon them, too? I have family and friends to share with. I don't need randos on the internet to agree or disagree with me and make me sad. Even in this I can agree to disagree without taking it personally. Humans, even the best of them, are frequently disappointing, wrong, ignorant or even bad actors but how I feel about them is none of their (or anyone else's) business.
So much of the television coverage has bordered on atrocity porn. I have read accounts from the AP about many of the atrocities and was appalled in what I read... the descriptions were accurate and I felt like I understood what was happening to the people attacked. My imagination works perfectly fine so I can picture what I read. But I did not need to have shot after shot , in video after video, of sobbing traumatized people to understand that there are people suffering. That no one deserves to suffer like that. The only thing I can compare it to is gawkers standing around watching dead bodies strewn around a car wreck. Psychic voyeurism. And then there is the proverbial reporter talking to the woman whose children were just swept away in a flood and then asks: "How are you feeling about the loss of your kids?" REALLY?
Be prudent in media consumption. Avoid promiscuous engagement with social media. You will feel better and be just as well informed.
“bordered on atrocity porn” “ Psychic voyeurism”
So perfectly put.
The United States of America cannot disavow its own complicity in this interminable Semitic tribal violence. For decades we have unequivocally backed Israel, as they dominated the Palestinians with impunity - all with the determination to keep them a stateless people.
The solution to his conflict is as plain as day. The Palestinians need their own state, they need to actually have something to *lose.* Israel needs to accommodate this by returning to some approximation of the pre-'67 borders. The Occupation needs to be ended for ever, and the West Bank turned over to the Palestinians as a contiguous, wholly sovereign state. So much the worse of the (illegal) Israeli settlements: the Settlers can stay in their homes, or be compensated if they return to Israel; but if they remain, they will become Palestinian citizens. Moreover this final settlement should be made a part of a grand bargain with as many Arab and Muslim states in the region as possible, all offering Israel full diplomatic recognition in return for this creation of a fully sovereingn state of Palestine.
Of course we have long since passed the point where the Israelis would accept this resolution of the conflict. Israelis like Netanyahu have adopted the not-so-tacit position that constant terrorist blowback is an acceptable price to pay for Israel being able to act with impunity. The majority of Israelis seem to have taken that position, as well - something which at this hour they may have cause to re-consider.
In the end, this cycle of tribal violence will continue unabated, either until Israel has achieved the full ethnic cleansing of the West Bank & Gaza - or until Israel and Iran destroy each other in a nuclear war. The only way to break this cycle is for the Western powers - led by the U.S. - to intervene and impose terms on both parties - but particularly on the Israelis.
Likud's calculation of acceptable price apparently included a belief that they could manage Hamas, to "control the height of the flames" of violence.