Inviting "populist slut hero" Amber Rose to speak at the Republican convention and adjusting the platform on abortion—Trump is trying to distance himself from MAGA's Christian fundamentalist ranks. Meanwhile, the Christian Nationalist project to turn the constitutional clock back 70 years continues apace. Plus, the effort to get Biden to leave the ticket is not a conspiracy—but the sign of a working party. David French joins Tim Miller.
The Bulwark Podcast
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Tim Miller and guests discuss the latest political news for the flagship podcast of the Never Trump movement and the reality-based community. Every weekday we provide insightful analysis, political hot-takes, an unabashed defense of liberal democracy and long-form interviews that cut through the "both-sides" BS. Plus a few laughs to help you wash down the crazy.
An ad-free edition is exclusively available for Bulwark+ members.
Tim Miller and guests discuss the latest political news for the flagship podcast of the Never Trump movement and the reality-based community. Every weekday we provide insightful analysis, political hot-takes, an unabashed defense of liberal democracy and long-form interviews that cut through the "both-sides" BS. Plus a few laughs to help you wash down the crazy.
An ad-free edition is exclusively available for Bulwark+ members.Listen on
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I would strongly suggest watching the documentary "BAD-FAITH. It is a deep dive into Christian Nationalism starting at the 1970s. Very enlightening and scary.
I don’t see how your comment makes sense.
David French and religious people believe and act in accordance with things that they could not possibly know to be true.
Which is fine but they state these things as though they are facts. They are not. My “belief” is that the world would be far better off if religion did not exist.
David French is found of saying that there are those on the left..... in order to justify his religious views. He never offers any proof or says exactly who these people are. Secular beliefs are inherently more valid than religious ones because they are observable.
Not all secular beliefs are observable. This should be obvious, given that not all secular people hold the same beliefs, and some anti-religious beliefs are as ill-informed and superstitious as the most idiosyncratic fundamentalist beliefs. This should come as no surprise to anyone who understands what religious fundamentalism is - an odd form of modernist hyper-rationalism. Anyone who holds to a rationalist epistemology holds beliefs that are not observable.
The American Evangelical Christian leaders are operating under the delusion that it’s their job to defend God and establish “God’s Kingdom on earth.” This runs directly contrary to John 18:36 where Jesus is clear, “Jesus said, ‘My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.’”
The idea that God’s Kingdom is intended to be established on earth is a cover for a pure power grab. Christians, by-and-large, have not been able to “sell” people on their political message or their chosen way of living. As a result, they have chosen to attempt to force people to live the same way they claim to live.
American Evangelical Christians, generally, claim to be persecuted. They aren’t, but that’s their claim. Again, it’s interesting how Jesus talks about persecution in Matthew 5:10: “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.“
It’s clear, “kingdom of heaven,” not earth. It is also clear that Jesus does not advocate the taking of authority or forcing people to live by His defined precepts. Nothing about Jesus’ life advocates for forced religious observance.
Taking the seats of authority, Evangelical Christians will find some rationale for forced Sunday observance and obligatory worship of their idea of God.
Spot on! Thank you!
Tim, wondering if you heard Jon & Dan's latest pod? Sounds like they're getting hated on big time too. (Jon was even called by a reported who said he'd been tipped off that Jon wrote Clooney's op-ed.) Dan has such a special connection to Biden; the insane accusations being directed at all of you are so disheartening.
Some of the things David said in the last part of this pod reminded me of JVL's horseshoe explanation of the left and right.
So enjoy Tim & David talking together. Some things in common, some on which you're likely very much in disagreement. But you have warmth for each other. Selah!
Like David, I wonder about all the crazy that will aimed at VP Harris if she becomes the presidential candidate, to a small degree we haven't seen much so far with her running for VP. Since the Obama admin, consider there's been some possible further learning by white folks: their participation in BLM and also even non-organized efforts in their local communities, the anti-racism studies in many mostly white churches... wonder what those numbers are, and how much it's broadened the willingness to vote for a bi-racial candidate since 2008 & 2016? Also, the extreme right is more vocal, hateful, and threatening since Trump raised the permission level for anti-social talk & behavior - so maybe us sane folks' reaction against that will be even greater than in the past, especially at the ballot box? ...am I just dreaming in the summer heat?
I know David loves originalism but my god if their hasn’t been a theory of interpreted law that has ever been so discredited. It is an excuse, to get outcomes they want.
Answer me this, if Joe Biden on the ticket is DJT’s best hope to win, then why aren’t we seeing a torrent of media pleading his case to stay in? In fact, we are seeing the exact opposite. Why? Because this isn’t normal politics. This is a Putin / Xi / Oliwannabe attack against the United States of America where their tool is information warfare, this includes spiking polling results. Putin / Xi and the Oliwannabes know that their best chance of installing DJT is Biden stepping aside and/or a fractured Democratic Party.
Read what you want into The Bulwark’s behavior which is fully aligned with what Putin / Xi and the Oliwannabes would like to see.
None of what you wrote is true.
Putin wants Biden?
All media is trying to get Biden to stay in the race, including the Bulwark?
Xi doesn’t exist?
A fractured Democratic Party wouldn’t help DJT’s reelection hopes?
See previous comment.
Your previous comment fails to account for reality, this ain’t Earth 2.
Tim,
PER: Uncle Joe's complaints... not age, it's all about the Elites..."
Pete Townshend told us all about that reality of the elites back in the 1980s via "It's An Eminence Front"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfrUQA2tb6M
"...People forget...
They're hiding
Behind an eminence front
An eminence front,
It's a put on...
It's a put on...
It's a put on...
Come on join the Party dressed to kill!"
Also from the "Way Back Machine" ( for those too young...this is reference to cartoon segment of "Peabody and Sherman" from the "Rocky & Bullwinkle Show" of the 1960s.
The Biden issue reminds me of a scene from the movie, "Apocalypse Now," known as the 'Chaos at Du Long Bridge,' as Captain Willard (Marin Sheen) is nearing his objective of connecting with Captain Kurtz (Marlon Brando).
American troops have been left stranded defending/taking a rope "bridge." As Willard arrives soldiers on the line call for "The Roach," a soldier with ability to "feel the location of the enemy" before he launches a grenade from a M-70 rifle.
He takes in an almost mystical breathe before pulling the trigger. His shot serves it's purpose of killing the enemy across the river.
Before he leaves, Willard asks of Roach (so "apocalyptic" to the 2024 Dems):
Willard "Hey soldier, do you know who's in charge here?"
Roach "Yeah."
And, as the audience expects an answer, Roach walks away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIhMoPA96Z0
I always enjoy Tim’s podcast so much. He has the most interesting variety of guests and he is always respectful of them. I really enjoy hearing David French explain his take on the courts and he’s just a good guy.
I see David French as part of the problem.
He really is a decent guy, and I don't agree with all his takes, but he is totally honest and fair
The last bit about threads…..I felt exactly the same way, disappointment as I had hoped the left was more considerate and thoughtful than the MAGAs, I will take away that social media brings the worst out in people as I believe it is cowardliness that is exposed, most of these people would never say these things aloud in a setting with others. I have never been a fan of social media but found some benefits for news etc. It furthers the case that it is damaging to society fueled by hyperpartisanism that both parties should be ashamed of. Disappointment in the dems and the Biden campaign blaming the media and voters for their concerns, the honest diligent citizens are evaluating and have genuine cause for worry about age.
How are the Dems not more thoughtful or considerate than the MAGAs.
Specifically, I was discussing the comments on threads and social media, the democrats on threads, horrible rhetoric attacking those that did not agree with there assessment of the campaign. The comments were very similar to MAGA. I did not intend to say democrats as a party but democrats on social media.
Reading & some posting in Comments here is as close as I've ever come to "social media" (not sure this even qualifies?). So I know nothing of this Threads of which you're all speaking :-) BUT I definitely agree with your affirmation of Tim's point. Whether it's the nature of social media (the distancing and depersonalizing nature of the screen & keyboard) or the dark side in each of us humans - - really chicken/egg. The observable fact is the likelihood of a self-reinforcing downward spiral of discourse.
Not ALL participants dive into that spiral. Some do, some feel pulled in perhaps in self-defense or self-justification but then they're sucked in. I also believe there is a subset of people who actually intend to disrupt social spaces, and that's way easier online than IRL. Plus, the intentional efforts of state (and non-state) actors seeking to amplify disharmony in their target populations. However much you might suspect THAT happens in social media, it's far more than you probably think.
I'm only partway through, but am glad that so far we haven't had to listen to French's opinions on reproductive care for women.
He's pro life, but, not anti abortion, those are different things
He doesn't believe courts and the law are the way to handle the abortion issue
A large part of the presidency is performance on a stage. I think that FDR was fortunate to be in office before television. I believe that Trump is nothing but a performer, and he is much worse now than 4 years ago. Biden is a decent and honorable man that has done a really good job in his first term, but cannot do the performance any longer.
At his best it is uncomfortable to watch and sometimes uncomfortable to listen to him. I voted for Joe 4 years ago, but only because he was the better choice. I would still vote for him this time but now I would really like a choice that represents a way forward for the future. Biden needs to turn over control to the next generation.
Agreed. I haven't minded Biden's lack of press, but in hindsight, it's clear that the "performance" part of the job is really important. Joe Biden's approval rating probably wouldn't be so bad if he was decent at it, but he no longer is at age 81. It's hard to see him winning a high-stakes Presidential campaign when every press event feels like it could turn into a trainwreck.
Actually, FDR, along with Hitler leveraged the new medium of radio. Trump leveraged social media through Twitter. Technology taking its turn at altering the course of history.
I did radiation because they said it improved my 5 year odds. I'm happy that Mrs. French is doing well!
The Supreme Court justices remarkably have not contemplated that once Trump takes full control of the military, if the justices refuse to do Trump's bidding they will be arrested (a la Putin's Russia).
The hapless Doug Burgum hasn't grasped that once Trump is in power, Burgum's money becomes Trump's money. In Russia, Putin uses the oligarchs essentially to park money in their accounts, which Putin sees as his money. If an oligarch doesn't do Putin's bidding, Putin can take their money at any time. This will be Doug Burgum's fate, after all those decades of work building his company, and frankly he will deserve it.
Something I noticed is that people at The Bulwark, The Dispatch, et al often allude to potential authoritarianism under Trump, but they virtually never spell out in concrete terms for average voters how that will play out in real life.
I remember the story of the businesswoman in Iraq who was told by local militia that to pay for her protection by the militia, she would need to write them a check for a million dollars, etc. When she refused, she was kidnapped. (She eventually escaped months later). Americans including conservatives have no concept that a fascist government upon gaining power will become their enemy (as in this circumstance) virtually overnight.
I wish you guys would spell out more clearly for voters examples such as these that we all may be facing starting in a few months.
Enjoyed today’s guest. Very informative discussion.
Sir, just had an epiphany! Yes the last two weeks have been difficult due to the uncertainty of the democratic position. However, I realized tonight after Biden’s press conference, it’s great talking about Biden everyday! Not haven’t to hear about the criminal Maga dude!
And glad Nancy is doing well....I am a survivor too so good news
I do love hearing from David, I miss him at The Dispatch
Democrats aren’t hating. This is so depressing listening to these put downs. I’m not “always Biden.” I’m not burying my head. I’m going to volunteer. That is far from burying my head. I’ll be back when you guys realize we are all in this together.
Yeah, it is getting to me too....I didn't do anything bad, but he sure sounds like I did and he is mad at me too?
I miss being part of the bulwark. But I know I need to DO something rather than whine. So giving up listening here is not like I’m stopping my support of saving democracy.
Thank you Tim. Personally I love David and Nancy French. They have both travelled some hard roads for their beliefs and standing by them. They have both miraculously overcome serious physical ailments. For an excellent read I suggest Nancy’s book, Ghosted.
That was an informative conversation. And got to say I'm really glad I don't have any kind of a job that requires me to be on threads. Or any of the other cesspools. Facebook is bad enough and I don't have very many friends so that kind of keeps the stupidness level down
I left twitter (X) after Musk took it over and destroyed it. I am now on Threads, for a few months now, and enjoy it much more than X
Tim, in regard to your comment about the US potentially not voting for a black woman because of racism and misogyny. I’m an independent but always have voted for Democrats (mostly for social issues), a retired medic from NYC now living in SF. My coworkers and I MAYBE made about 90 grand a year, were union members, and were content. 2008 arrives and Barack Obama runs for President, I vote for him, he wins and some of the people I know in the tri state area lose their collective minds. Initially I attempted to have conversations with people I had known for years about their hatred of a man they knew nothing about, and…….. then I left Facebook and didn’t look back. What I’m trying to say in my seemingly long winded way is people will vote against their best interests for a SINGLE reason, no matter how irrational it is to us for them to do so. I listen feverishly to all the Bulwark podcasts and read everyone’s daily articles and am consistently flabbergasted by JVL and you thinking that this country will vote for a black woman. It makes me incredibly sad that this is true and the current state of our country but it is.
Nonsense. Americans for whom racist motivation is an important voting consideration are a minority of the population, and that minority has already voted for Trump with enthusiasm twice. Kamala could never win their votes, but neither could any other 21st-century Democrat.
And a black woman from California no less. If she is the nominee you can kiss those swing states goodbye because they will be gone.
Agree, unfortunately this is the country we live in. These are desperate times in which we need to be brutally honest with ourselves. We can hate ourselves for years to come but unless we nominate someone else, we’ll lose. I’d vote for Buttigieg, who I think is also brilliant, but the country will not vote for a gay man. We truly suck.
I'm not sure this is true. I think that, were Kamala to be the candidate, and if the Democrats were truly serious about retaining young people, they'd actually need to select someone like Buttigieg as Veep.
Let me just add, I voted for Kamala in the primaries, and I will vote Democrat this upcoming election, no matter who it is.
I bailed on David in the aftermath of Dobbs when. as an adoptive parent, I thought he (and many others) badly glossed over the extensive challenges - financial, emotional, and medical - in raising an adopted child. Credit to David for noting that this country could (and should) do far more to support the parents and children in adoptive families from the get-go, and credit to David for expanding on that when people like me noted that the complications ran much deeper.
And now, the furor over Dobbs seems almost quaint with SCOTUS conferring so much immunity (qualified, plus now Presidential). When has that kind of power ever NOT been badly abused?
I always enjoy listening to conversations with David French. He's a good man.
Tim I love how you tried to not cuss in front of David but with five minutes left multiple SHITs came out.
I think David threw down first around 31 minutes in with "asshole."
Once he broke the ice the gloves were off for Tim!
SHIT. I thought I kept it clean!!
David was military. I expect not much shocks him 😊
David, I am thrilled for you with the news about Nancy.
Sei gesund, both of you.
David is right, this is 100% about Biden's performance not about the *reaction* to Biden's performance.
The Always Biden crowd's hate for the Biden Doubters is kind of like if a dude prematurely ejaculates during sex and then gets mad at the woman for finishing herself off with a vibrator. Like, if dude had performed well this wouldn't even be an issue folks.
It happens in the opposite too Travis...even from the Bulwark staff it seems
And I don't hate anyone, but, ,they sure sound like they hate me
I feel the hate from the other direction.
The woman finishing herself off with the vibrator hates you?
I tried to diagram the analogy and yes, I think so😉
...Not the analogy I was expecting there
Yea, maybe not the best metaphor I guess, sorry about the graphic imagery there lol
I will say with David French asking if historians will look at this era and ask whether it was malice or stupidity. It’s neither, it’s cowardice.
Among those of us who did go to law school, the pretzel logic does not drive much cynicism. We'd seen it ever since the Originalists declined to apply Originalism to the Incorporation Doctrine. Originalism has always been an outcome-driven scam.
We are people who understand pleading in the alternative. Nothing jades us!
Trump is holding moderate positions for the election. And after? I’m guessing he’s going down the path of Project 2025.
I agree, this is a scam.
For all the, we do not like to do media criticism here, but... Why did the headline go further than, 'TRUMP TRIES TO RUN'?
This drops as he is literally meeting with Orban. I am sure Trump is not fast, but even by his standards, this is not running.