I'm way late commenting on this thread but isn't it great to have something new and relevant to discuss! Win or lose, I'm excited to follow this election cycle to the conclusion. Hopefully Kamala will select a strong VP candidate and she will continue to say and do the right things in the coming days and months. She has already stolen the thunder from the Republicans following their convention and it has been highly entertaining seeing MAGA shit the bed!
Are we really that surprised that Trump continues to bash Biden? After all, he still rails against Obama and Clinton. Experience with narcissists informs that they operate like an amoeba. Once in motion, there is little they can do change course. Also, their current momentum is driven by ego and hatred—the simplest of motivations—these are not easily abandoned in times of change. Three dimensional chess, my ass.
I am so truly relieved, and grateful for Joe Biden for all he has done in service to our country, esp passing the baton to Kamala. Actually, despite the agonizing wait these past few weeks, to do this after JD Vance is locked in as DJT’s VP pick is pretty awesome timing (unless DJT swaps him - can he do that?). Not sure why both Obamas haven’t joyfully endorsed Kamala unless there is a purposeful drip, drip, drip to build the momentum (and $$) each day to solidify the launch. I was truly inspired and excited by Kamala’s speech at campaign HQ on Monday. Go get ‘em, Kamala - you got this! Keep your focus on prosecuting the case against DJT, and highlighting the forward v. backward looking visions for our country. :-)
I have no idea what Obama is thinking but getting behind Harris quickly is clearly the best move--and not just because I genuinely believe she will be a good president. The Democrats cannot spend time in disarray and arguments. They need to be united and moving forward confidently. For too long the media has allowed Republicans to control the narrative about Kamala Harris. And the truth is it is mostly rooted in sexism and racism. I am not referring to passing her over in the 2020 primary. But the extreme hate since 2020? The media acts like people don't like her or are lukewarm toward her when in reality I don't know anyone who hates her outside of the far right who cannot resist the urge to insult all smart and powerful women who don't agree with them. Hesitancy is catching. She is by far the best choice right now and therefore the sooner it is clear she is the choice the better.
This is what I have read also (since commenting). I have seen some people make sarcastic remarks about anointing her as queen so maybe it is good he did not tip the scales so to speak. It is just frustrating to watch it become the story.
FWIW, I haven't heard or seen news stories on that. Please don't take that as doubting you or what you saw, just a data point to maybe suggest it isn't a large story (at least yet).
So far, it seems like the collective democratic party has had their you know what together on this whole thing, so I suspect Obama's endorsement timing is part of the strategy. I have even wondered if the timing and apparent openness of the process from debate to dropping out was actually a good thing, allowing the base to feel involved (a lot of letters, both pro and con got sent) and giving people time to get their heads around a momentous change. Not sure that part was designed per se, but the end result seems to have worked out pretty well, with no fighting, no split camps, and a ton of enthusiasm.
Firstly, thank you President Biden for putting country, before self/ego. It would nice if other insecure persons would do the same thing. The same advice also goes to other voters. :-)
Secondly, let Kamala prosecute the case against a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist. (Thanks to the good insights by the Bulwark folks)
NYT: "BREAKING NEWS Kamala Harris secured the backing of a majority of the delegates needed to clinch the Democratic nomination. Monday, July 22, 2024 10:16 PM ET On her first full day in the race, Kamala Harris drew endorsements from her final possible rivals, hauled in record sums of cash and attacked Donald Trump."
Goodby open convention - "it's done," as John Adams said in "1776"
I'm greatly encouraged that Harris is keeping Jen O'Malley Dixon (spell?) and the campaign leadership in place. JOD stepped in to lead Biden's first campaign right before South Carolina, and she's an exceptional leader and grassroots organizer. She doesn't seek the limelight, but she's among the best in her field and will help Harris prosecute an aggressive campaign. It's definitely going to be a tough, tough road, but the Dems (and thus the country) have a fighting chance.
For those who love the idea of Liz or Adam being the VP candidate:
It was done for the first 2 elections and it failed badly. So, we now have the 12th Amendment: The president and vice president of the United States campaign together and are elected as a team and not individually following the adoption of the 12th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which was drafted to prevent the nation's two highest elected officials from being from opposing political parties.
Kamala will likely be the candidate. Be bold. One of her first visits should be Charleston, SC. She should go on a walking tour of the city where people are spending $1M to raise the foundations of their homes because the sea wall will be repeatedly breached. Since the 1600’s, Charleston is proof that our country has always been diverse. Ethnically, religiously, racially. DEI was always poorly messaged. We have always been diverse. So, what bothers the right is equity and inclusion. Who has been most affected? Women. Black women, white women, Asian women, Native American women. Promise women that it doesn’t matter if they live in a red state or blue state, if they are independent of thought, their ideas and rights will be respected. Tell them that what will not be tolerated is what their former governor did. Allow a chauvinist to suggest that she is somehow less because her dress wasn’t “designer” and then endorse him. Pick Gretchen Whitmer as her running mate. Leverage the fact that there are more women in our country than men. There are more women receiving college degrees than men. Ask them if another male, Trump, Orban, Putin, JD has earned the right to continue to lead. Is any of this traditional? No. Will any of the experts allow her to do so? No. But she is behind and what is traditional will probably not be enough. If she loses she will have, at least, turned our politics in a long over due direction.
I think emphasizing abortion is great but I would emphasize her prosecution background and not go the identity politics route. Any woman receptive to the messaging you suggest already knows all of that. And overly emphasizing the Black woman as role model arguments just brings the DEI assholes out of the woodwork. And the thing is, Harris doesn't need it. She's got the bona fides. I disagree on a woman running mate as well. And I am a woman. But being realistic, too much too fast and frankly I really would prefer she picked someone with military experience. I think Mark Kelly (and talk about someone who supported women in politics) would be perfect. I just wish he was from a midwestern swing state.
She will have no problem emphasizing her prosecution background. It’s who she is and the space in which she is most comfortable. If she fails at that, she will lose. I think Mark Kelly is great and would be a safe, traditional choice. I don’t look at appealing to a demographic that compromises over half of the population as identity politics. By definition, it is not identity politics. It is an appeal to the majority. Unfortunately, as we are painfully aware, women candidates with the “bona fides” don’t always get the votes from women who should be receptive to the messaging.
Yeah I just don't believe a decent percentage of women are receptive to the we are falling ever deeper into a misogynistic pit right now messaging. So I guess I don't believe it will appeal to a majority. I definitely believe we are (getting more misogynistic by the moment), which is why, with Trump on the board, I would take the more pragmatic approach and stick with the messaging that we know is a winner (which includes abortion).
I wish Mark Kelly was from an eastern swing state but otherwise I think he is perfect. Yes I get why you call him traditional, but between being an astronaut and having actual combat tour experience, I would argue those are 2 huge selling points that we have not seen in a long time (if ever regarding the astronaut part). At this point traditional in the White House seems to mean Ivy educated, maybe a military desk job, maybe practiced as a lawyer. I have no problem with any of those things (and would argue the legal education part is important also) but military experience seems to have fallen by the wayside. One more point about Mark Kelly: he believed in his wife's work so much that he left his own super cool heroic (to the American population anyway) job to take over. I guess what I am saying is he may not be a woman but he is a feminist.
I’m pretty sure no swing voter thinks Joe Biden is “the worst president in the history of the United States” as Trump says in his desperate bleat. There will come a point when those willing to vote for Trump will tire of his self-serving BS; I’m not talking about his cult, just the critical swingvoters needed to put AG/Senator/VP Harris in the oval office. I don’t know if this can be done. Right now it’s a coin flip at best. But she should at least flip a fair amount of Black, Latino and younger voters who once supported, but recently soured on Biden. Trump has a lot of soft support that’s about to be severely tested. They’re ripe for the taking. And those who respected but dismissed Joe as being too diminished will have to respect what he’s done, and give Harris a serious look now.
As an Independent, I am concerned that the Democratic Party appears to be endorsing Harris without considering other people. I hoped that the party would hold an open convention - and I still hope that others are able to garner the 300 delegate votes in order to have the chance to put forward their case to be president. The Democratic Party will do a disservice to our country if it fails to recognize that Independents and fellow Citizens who are members of other parties, including the Republican Party that existed before Trump, are most concerned about the survival of our democratic republic in this year's presidential election. We need a leader who can unite all of us, who is an impassioned orator, who can speak without a teleprompter, and who can get across the message in direct and compelling terms that another Trump administration will destroy our republic.
You appear to be saying they should be considering non-Democrats, which makes no sense to me. I live in PA so I am registered as Democrat so I can vote in primaries but I consider myself Independent but I am still smart enough to understand that at this point in time it's a 2 party system. We don't want Democrats sitting out the election in anger over a pick that makes no sense.
It's the Democrats nominee; if independents and citizens in other parties want to participate in the Democrats nomination process, then they need to join the party.
Name one speaker (teacher, meeting director, etc.) who doesn't use notes, a teleprompter, copy of the speech. The last impassioned orator was JFK, and even he used notes. Orators disappeared long ago. As for an open convention, you clearly have never seen one. Open conventions are free-for-alls. Heck, even Bulwark can't agree who to pick as VP. No one can possibly do the vetting needed to run for high office know. The primary system was instituted to do away with the party bosses doing deals in back rooms and telling the delegates who to vote for. The primary voters picked Biden-Harris. Since Biden bowed out, the only candidate possible is Harris, who has already been vetted and knows the job, and has the delegates. There is simply no time to play games with "mini-primaries", which don't exist. The convention is in 3 weeks!
I think it really works to dispel the 'Democrats in disarray' narrative brilliantly. I am surprised by it and hugely gratified by it. I was cynical enough to think a number of floated potentials like Newsom, for instance, might jump on in there and drag this out. The Democrats, by so quickly coalescing around Harris, are demonstrating that they too are putting country over their own ambitions. It's a very powerful act and they should be commended for it.
That's my biggest argument as well. Get unified and strong. And go read JVL's brilliant "7 Lessons from Biden's Presidency" which argues for all the reasons Harris is a smart pick.
I hope Kamala can win. I am definitely more excited about the election now, though I would have voted for Biden if he was in hospice. I don't, however, like making her queen in a day. The justification I hear for this is that all the people who voted for Joe Biden, voted for the Biden Harris ticket. That is just not true. No one who voted for Biden did so because Kamala was on the ticket. No one votes for the vice- president. Many of those voters will rightfully feel that had their choices included other Democratic governors, they would have voted differently. The Democrats, after hiding Biden's mental condition, are now taking away our choice for president. I'm with Joe Manchin on this. We need a mini primary. If Kamala wins it, she will have earned it, and be a much stronger candidate because of it. If she loses it, we will have found our strongest candidate.
No medical expert has agreed with your assertion. And these are doctors for whom watching a person speak can be a large part of diagnosis. No one was hiding anything. Why would you assume that just because he is struggling more now that he was struggling all 3.5 years?
I think you have the wrong idea regarding "queen in a day." The narrative right now is Dems in disarray and panicking and we need to change that asap.
The mini-primary again. HOW do you do one? Who's going to give the money to the states to do one? Who's going to print the ballots? Who's going to determine who's on it? Who's going to get people to turn out and vote? Who's going to vet these people? ALL IN 3 WEEKS! Please, people, THINK!
Kathleen, what "mental condition" did "the Democrats" hide from Joe Biden? I've read and heard allegations of Alzheimer's, dementia, and cognitive impairment thrown out by many talking heads, persons who apparently do not possess medical arts degrees at any level, some of whom claim to be Democrats. Allegations do not equal facts.The man's personal and official doctors have not made such assertions.
I'm way late commenting on this thread but isn't it great to have something new and relevant to discuss! Win or lose, I'm excited to follow this election cycle to the conclusion. Hopefully Kamala will select a strong VP candidate and she will continue to say and do the right things in the coming days and months. She has already stolen the thunder from the Republicans following their convention and it has been highly entertaining seeing MAGA shit the bed!
Are we really that surprised that Trump continues to bash Biden? After all, he still rails against Obama and Clinton. Experience with narcissists informs that they operate like an amoeba. Once in motion, there is little they can do change course. Also, their current momentum is driven by ego and hatred—the simplest of motivations—these are not easily abandoned in times of change. Three dimensional chess, my ass.
I am so truly relieved, and grateful for Joe Biden for all he has done in service to our country, esp passing the baton to Kamala. Actually, despite the agonizing wait these past few weeks, to do this after JD Vance is locked in as DJT’s VP pick is pretty awesome timing (unless DJT swaps him - can he do that?). Not sure why both Obamas haven’t joyfully endorsed Kamala unless there is a purposeful drip, drip, drip to build the momentum (and $$) each day to solidify the launch. I was truly inspired and excited by Kamala’s speech at campaign HQ on Monday. Go get ‘em, Kamala - you got this! Keep your focus on prosecuting the case against DJT, and highlighting the forward v. backward looking visions for our country. :-)
I have no idea what Obama is thinking but getting behind Harris quickly is clearly the best move--and not just because I genuinely believe she will be a good president. The Democrats cannot spend time in disarray and arguments. They need to be united and moving forward confidently. For too long the media has allowed Republicans to control the narrative about Kamala Harris. And the truth is it is mostly rooted in sexism and racism. I am not referring to passing her over in the 2020 primary. But the extreme hate since 2020? The media acts like people don't like her or are lukewarm toward her when in reality I don't know anyone who hates her outside of the far right who cannot resist the urge to insult all smart and powerful women who don't agree with them. Hesitancy is catching. She is by far the best choice right now and therefore the sooner it is clear she is the choice the better.
What I have heard regarding Obama is two possibilities.
1.) He wants to remain the neutral elder stateman until the convention makes it official.
2.) He's holding on as part of the bigger plan about this to extend the new cycle with his endorsement.
She's already got things completely locked up, so he doesn't need his endorsement now vs. a week or three from now.
This is what I have read also (since commenting). I have seen some people make sarcastic remarks about anointing her as queen so maybe it is good he did not tip the scales so to speak. It is just frustrating to watch it become the story.
FWIW, I haven't heard or seen news stories on that. Please don't take that as doubting you or what you saw, just a data point to maybe suggest it isn't a large story (at least yet).
So far, it seems like the collective democratic party has had their you know what together on this whole thing, so I suspect Obama's endorsement timing is part of the strategy. I have even wondered if the timing and apparent openness of the process from debate to dropping out was actually a good thing, allowing the base to feel involved (a lot of letters, both pro and con got sent) and giving people time to get their heads around a momentous change. Not sure that part was designed per se, but the end result seems to have worked out pretty well, with no fighting, no split camps, and a ton of enthusiasm.
Agree.
Firstly, thank you President Biden for putting country, before self/ego. It would nice if other insecure persons would do the same thing. The same advice also goes to other voters. :-)
Secondly, let Kamala prosecute the case against a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist. (Thanks to the good insights by the Bulwark folks)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktdi_L0rYkk
NYT: "BREAKING NEWS Kamala Harris secured the backing of a majority of the delegates needed to clinch the Democratic nomination. Monday, July 22, 2024 10:16 PM ET On her first full day in the race, Kamala Harris drew endorsements from her final possible rivals, hauled in record sums of cash and attacked Donald Trump."
Goodby open convention - "it's done," as John Adams said in "1776"
It's not over until the fat lady sings. Notable exceptions have not signed off on the coronation such as Obama, Palosi, and Schumer.
I stand corrected regarding Palosi and Schumer.
I am pretty sure Pelosi and Schumer have.
I'm greatly encouraged that Harris is keeping Jen O'Malley Dixon (spell?) and the campaign leadership in place. JOD stepped in to lead Biden's first campaign right before South Carolina, and she's an exceptional leader and grassroots organizer. She doesn't seek the limelight, but she's among the best in her field and will help Harris prosecute an aggressive campaign. It's definitely going to be a tough, tough road, but the Dems (and thus the country) have a fighting chance.
For those who love the idea of Liz or Adam being the VP candidate:
It was done for the first 2 elections and it failed badly. So, we now have the 12th Amendment: The president and vice president of the United States campaign together and are elected as a team and not individually following the adoption of the 12th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which was drafted to prevent the nation's two highest elected officials from being from opposing political parties.
Any more questions?
Kamala will likely be the candidate. Be bold. One of her first visits should be Charleston, SC. She should go on a walking tour of the city where people are spending $1M to raise the foundations of their homes because the sea wall will be repeatedly breached. Since the 1600’s, Charleston is proof that our country has always been diverse. Ethnically, religiously, racially. DEI was always poorly messaged. We have always been diverse. So, what bothers the right is equity and inclusion. Who has been most affected? Women. Black women, white women, Asian women, Native American women. Promise women that it doesn’t matter if they live in a red state or blue state, if they are independent of thought, their ideas and rights will be respected. Tell them that what will not be tolerated is what their former governor did. Allow a chauvinist to suggest that she is somehow less because her dress wasn’t “designer” and then endorse him. Pick Gretchen Whitmer as her running mate. Leverage the fact that there are more women in our country than men. There are more women receiving college degrees than men. Ask them if another male, Trump, Orban, Putin, JD has earned the right to continue to lead. Is any of this traditional? No. Will any of the experts allow her to do so? No. But she is behind and what is traditional will probably not be enough. If she loses she will have, at least, turned our politics in a long over due direction.
I think emphasizing abortion is great but I would emphasize her prosecution background and not go the identity politics route. Any woman receptive to the messaging you suggest already knows all of that. And overly emphasizing the Black woman as role model arguments just brings the DEI assholes out of the woodwork. And the thing is, Harris doesn't need it. She's got the bona fides. I disagree on a woman running mate as well. And I am a woman. But being realistic, too much too fast and frankly I really would prefer she picked someone with military experience. I think Mark Kelly (and talk about someone who supported women in politics) would be perfect. I just wish he was from a midwestern swing state.
She will have no problem emphasizing her prosecution background. It’s who she is and the space in which she is most comfortable. If she fails at that, she will lose. I think Mark Kelly is great and would be a safe, traditional choice. I don’t look at appealing to a demographic that compromises over half of the population as identity politics. By definition, it is not identity politics. It is an appeal to the majority. Unfortunately, as we are painfully aware, women candidates with the “bona fides” don’t always get the votes from women who should be receptive to the messaging.
Yeah I just don't believe a decent percentage of women are receptive to the we are falling ever deeper into a misogynistic pit right now messaging. So I guess I don't believe it will appeal to a majority. I definitely believe we are (getting more misogynistic by the moment), which is why, with Trump on the board, I would take the more pragmatic approach and stick with the messaging that we know is a winner (which includes abortion).
I wish Mark Kelly was from an eastern swing state but otherwise I think he is perfect. Yes I get why you call him traditional, but between being an astronaut and having actual combat tour experience, I would argue those are 2 huge selling points that we have not seen in a long time (if ever regarding the astronaut part). At this point traditional in the White House seems to mean Ivy educated, maybe a military desk job, maybe practiced as a lawyer. I have no problem with any of those things (and would argue the legal education part is important also) but military experience seems to have fallen by the wayside. One more point about Mark Kelly: he believed in his wife's work so much that he left his own super cool heroic (to the American population anyway) job to take over. I guess what I am saying is he may not be a woman but he is a feminist.
I’m pretty sure no swing voter thinks Joe Biden is “the worst president in the history of the United States” as Trump says in his desperate bleat. There will come a point when those willing to vote for Trump will tire of his self-serving BS; I’m not talking about his cult, just the critical swingvoters needed to put AG/Senator/VP Harris in the oval office. I don’t know if this can be done. Right now it’s a coin flip at best. But she should at least flip a fair amount of Black, Latino and younger voters who once supported, but recently soured on Biden. Trump has a lot of soft support that’s about to be severely tested. They’re ripe for the taking. And those who respected but dismissed Joe as being too diminished will have to respect what he’s done, and give Harris a serious look now.
All in
As an Independent, I am concerned that the Democratic Party appears to be endorsing Harris without considering other people. I hoped that the party would hold an open convention - and I still hope that others are able to garner the 300 delegate votes in order to have the chance to put forward their case to be president. The Democratic Party will do a disservice to our country if it fails to recognize that Independents and fellow Citizens who are members of other parties, including the Republican Party that existed before Trump, are most concerned about the survival of our democratic republic in this year's presidential election. We need a leader who can unite all of us, who is an impassioned orator, who can speak without a teleprompter, and who can get across the message in direct and compelling terms that another Trump administration will destroy our republic.
You appear to be saying they should be considering non-Democrats, which makes no sense to me. I live in PA so I am registered as Democrat so I can vote in primaries but I consider myself Independent but I am still smart enough to understand that at this point in time it's a 2 party system. We don't want Democrats sitting out the election in anger over a pick that makes no sense.
It's the Democrats nominee; if independents and citizens in other parties want to participate in the Democrats nomination process, then they need to join the party.
Name one speaker (teacher, meeting director, etc.) who doesn't use notes, a teleprompter, copy of the speech. The last impassioned orator was JFK, and even he used notes. Orators disappeared long ago. As for an open convention, you clearly have never seen one. Open conventions are free-for-alls. Heck, even Bulwark can't agree who to pick as VP. No one can possibly do the vetting needed to run for high office know. The primary system was instituted to do away with the party bosses doing deals in back rooms and telling the delegates who to vote for. The primary voters picked Biden-Harris. Since Biden bowed out, the only candidate possible is Harris, who has already been vetted and knows the job, and has the delegates. There is simply no time to play games with "mini-primaries", which don't exist. The convention is in 3 weeks!
A quick recommendation - Eliot Ackerman's 'The Trump Campaign Has Peaked Too Soon' in The Atlantic. ...lips to god's ears, as they say.
I think it really works to dispel the 'Democrats in disarray' narrative brilliantly. I am surprised by it and hugely gratified by it. I was cynical enough to think a number of floated potentials like Newsom, for instance, might jump on in there and drag this out. The Democrats, by so quickly coalescing around Harris, are demonstrating that they too are putting country over their own ambitions. It's a very powerful act and they should be commended for it.
That's my biggest argument as well. Get unified and strong. And go read JVL's brilliant "7 Lessons from Biden's Presidency" which argues for all the reasons Harris is a smart pick.
"Must watch TV" coming up!
How will VP Kamala Harris greet Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the Capital?
Talk about an excruciating test of diplomatic skill!
Will it be enough for her to keep her opinion to herself as she officiates? She is the President of the Senate.
How do you think she ought to handle it?
\Vince S
WAPO says she won’t preside over the senate for his speech, but that the decision was made pre Sunday. Let’s see if she changes her mind.
I hope Kamala can win. I am definitely more excited about the election now, though I would have voted for Biden if he was in hospice. I don't, however, like making her queen in a day. The justification I hear for this is that all the people who voted for Joe Biden, voted for the Biden Harris ticket. That is just not true. No one who voted for Biden did so because Kamala was on the ticket. No one votes for the vice- president. Many of those voters will rightfully feel that had their choices included other Democratic governors, they would have voted differently. The Democrats, after hiding Biden's mental condition, are now taking away our choice for president. I'm with Joe Manchin on this. We need a mini primary. If Kamala wins it, she will have earned it, and be a much stronger candidate because of it. If she loses it, we will have found our strongest candidate.
No medical expert has agreed with your assertion. And these are doctors for whom watching a person speak can be a large part of diagnosis. No one was hiding anything. Why would you assume that just because he is struggling more now that he was struggling all 3.5 years?
I think you have the wrong idea regarding "queen in a day." The narrative right now is Dems in disarray and panicking and we need to change that asap.
Joe Manchin is an attention whore who quit when he knew he was going to lose his election.
Doesn't sound like a guy who Dems should care about.
The mini-primary again. HOW do you do one? Who's going to give the money to the states to do one? Who's going to print the ballots? Who's going to determine who's on it? Who's going to get people to turn out and vote? Who's going to vet these people? ALL IN 3 WEEKS! Please, people, THINK!
Kathleen, what "mental condition" did "the Democrats" hide from Joe Biden? I've read and heard allegations of Alzheimer's, dementia, and cognitive impairment thrown out by many talking heads, persons who apparently do not possess medical arts degrees at any level, some of whom claim to be Democrats. Allegations do not equal facts.The man's personal and official doctors have not made such assertions.
Thank You! All of sudden, the entire country has turned into medical professionals!