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I agree, they really strung out the songs way too long, particularly Defying Gravity

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I was just happy that Hollywood made a musical that didn't cut any of the songs, even the ones I consider bad or forgettable. Any song I hate is another person's sleeper classic. I'm sorry, but Michelle Yeoh cannot sing, luckily she only has one song.

But yes, even as a fan I think it's fair to say the plot of the show is... pretty bad! Grimdarkifying Oz and turning a humbug fraudster into an authoritarian monster is both preachy and pointless, unless the message we are supposed to take away is that it's bad to scapegoat a group of people for literally no reason whatsoever. But this is a world where literally everyone except the protagonist is either silly or evil and I generally do not like stories of that nature!

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He is an authoritarian monster in both the Wizard of Oz and in Wicked. Did you watch the Wizard of Oz? What was the whole point of his character there? He was a huckster who became an authoritarian leader....I thought this was obvious.

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1dEdited

He's a huckster and con man, but at no point do I recall him actually using his authoritarian power to do anything monstrous in Wizard of Oz. He appears to be completely laissez faire towards the lives of regular Ozians. I suppose his demand for Dorothy to bring him the Witch's broomstick is, well, kind of enlisting a young child for a special forces mission, but beyond that and having an intimidating false front he doesn't do anything monstrous. Once he's revealed, he is avuncular and well-meaning. He certainly doesn't display any bigotry towards sentient animals. The point of the character is that he's a light satirization of government figures.

(In the original book, he does make everyone wear green glasses when entering the Emerald City because the City is not actually green, so I suppose that's more of an authoritarian move, but that's just economic stimulus!)

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If you know the musical, the Wicked movie was fantastic, though I agree with the concerns about the lyrics being lost in places. The difficulty with the plot being underdeveloped in places (animal discrimination and so on) stems from the way the stage show really races through the story - you don’t tend to worry about it so much on Broadway because the songs are so good, but they could have explained things a little better in the movie. It seemed to me that the director was a fanboy reluctant to stray too much from the stage show. Overall though, for fans it was brilliant, and the kids absolutely loved it. Along with Moana 2, it just shows that if you put something good out for the whole family during a holiday, you’ll get rewarded with box office. Usually there’s nothing much available to take the kids to. With good family/kids movies going straight to streaming, there’s big opportunities for the studios being lost, and parents always need things to take the kids to see.

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The discussion on AI and art was awesome so I will have to stick around. By the way yall knew you were going to get some smoke so I came for it. I mean some of this to be mildly critical but all in good fun. However, I am hurting over this wicked review though but glad I listened in for the first time!

It hurts so bad to tune in for my first time to this podcast and I listen to two people who hate musicals, one person who hasn't seen it on Broadway, and one person who clearly loves the Wizard of Oz and hates the counter story of Wicked. The only reviews I actually understood were the people who hate musicals.

The musical ear thing was lost on me. If you listen to any technical musician they have also commented on how amazing technically the music was in this film. I also happen to consider myself to have an amateur ear (ive been in band, theater, played piano, can hold a tune, etc.) but swallowing lyrics?!?!?!? Also how can you claim your a musical person but have not seen Wicked in a Broadway production somewhere in the last 20 years? I mean like that would be like saying I am a sports fanatic but I haven't been to a game in the last 2 decades. Either you are not truly a musical person or (and more likely) you like to go see "In The Heights" before Lin Manuel was actually big, or some obscure off Broadway musical about early century life, or maybe you go see like Le Mis in London because you have that kind of access.

Can I also the swallowing lyrics point made sense to me for the non musical folks? This is also how I was when I first started watching musicals, I felt the plot gets lost in the constant singing. So it makes sense to me that you would say that, and its a reason why only a select friends can go with me to musicals lol. Songs are not meant to necessarily further the plot, they can just be as simple as evoking someone's emotion at that time in song form. I could give a thousand examples across all genres of musicals where the music is meant to emphasize a plot point not extend or progress the story. Including the example given in this exact podcast in "In the Heights".

I also saw how weirdly you all just hate Wicked period. None of the questions are answered in the Wizard of Oz either. (magic, the wizard, the wicked witch of the west or east, why there's a scarecrow that can come to life, or a lion that can talk.) This actually answers more questions if you put it in context of already have watched The Wizard of Oz.

Lastly that strange diatribe on the emerald city and how it captured the imagination. I'm likely much younger than whoever said that, but WOW. The emerald city in this movie is light years ahead of the emerald city of old.

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Wow! I was so gratified to hear Sonny and Peter talk about not being able to hear lyrics in songs. That has been a life-long affliction for me as well.

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No let's address the problem of actors that think mumbling is a high art.

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Wicked🥴

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