After Trump wins, Biden and his advisors will be despised and hated by most democrats. And even as a defender of his record, it will be hard for me to think well of him—or of the Democratic Party. Within my progressive group of friends, the despair is palpable.
After Trump wins, Biden and his advisors will be despised and hated by most democrats. And even as a defender of his record, it will be hard for me to think well of him—or of the Democratic Party. Within my progressive group of friends, the despair is palpable.
If he wins it will be because the Democrats whined and cried like little girls because their candidate had a bad night. They should grow up and act like Republicans who stood behind a farting Trump while he was convicted of 34 felonies. And stands by him today.
Acting like Republicans is good in terms of attack attack attack repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly with one voice and one message. But there are certain things that Dems cannot get away with. For example, there is no liberal talk radio that compares with the brainwashing cult-breeding effects of the right-wing hate machine; liberal voters aren't wired to respond to it. Dems also can't get away with demanding its members get totally behind whoever their dear leader is. Especially when the dear leader is underwater in the aggregate of national and vital state polls. Unlike Trumpists, we see when the emperor clothes are in tatters. Can't wish it away. Biden is toast.
I agree with what you say. But Biden is not toast. He gave a good speech at the NATO summit. If you can think of someone who can beat Trump, I'm all eager to hear it.
I don't think anybody in the comments or on the Bulwark staff disputes that Biden can give a good speech. But can he think on his feet in unscripted environments. Can he form a coherent and compelling thought or an argument that has not been rehearsed verbatim beforehand? Biden's age has been THE issue for many months. I think Kamala could pull it off if she owned her 'prosecutor' persona. She wouldn't let up on Trump for a second and she's got youthful stamina. All of the sudden, Trump looks old.
Apparently he managed to preside over the NATO summit. He's been leading the country pretty well these four years. I liked Kamala and voted for her for Senate. So Biden has 15 times the amount of legislative and leadership experience than Harris but since its all about looks over substance. I guess she'll be fine. Why not? It's not like she'll beat Trump or anything
Yes, Biden has done astoundingly well at actually 'presidenting' and runs circles around just about anyone in his ability to push legislation through Congress. Not to mention creating an international coalition for Ukraine. Unfortunately, I don't think this election is about how good Biden is at his job as president. Otherwise, this race would not even be close. Trump should be losing by double digits. To paraphrase a famous quote, nobody ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American people. I hope I'm being too cynical.
Absolutely not. I do realize that the majority of people are ignorant. But that's why smart people and the Democratic Party have to hammer it home that they are behind Biden 24/7. That he would be the greatest president who ever lived. If we show weakness and give up on out candidate, we are saying the that being a really good president doesn't matter and if it doesn't matter, why not Trump. At least we'll be amused. Except for his being a fascist, rapist, NAZI and a lot of people might very well be killed.
I'm sure you and I will be okay, probably, so why worry? Be happy. Wipe you laptop history clean so the MAGA police who hire Chinese IT experts to scan everyone's internet comments.
Fortunately I live in a blue area of a blue state. Good point about scrubbing histories. I am concerned that tech companies will roll over for Trump (revealing internet histories, emails etc) because they are afraid of being targeted. Hell, that's half of why companies (tech bros are another matter; half of them are authoritarian-curious) are making nice to him NOW.
The grown uo thing to do would be to say out loud what they're saying off the record, that they think Biden should drop out. More grown up than lying to their voters.
I am not sure that acting like Republicans is a good example of growing up. Neither is calculating probabilities based on multiple polls whining. The sense that many have that Biden is a weak campaigner is based on more than his first debate. And to say that he is a weak candidate is not to say that he is or would be a weak President. But then: the voters. I myself will vote for him, but given the State that I live in, my vote and the votes of my Democratic fellow travelers will count for nothing.
The thing I both hate admire about Reublicans is that no matter what, they support their candidate. Biden is a good President even old he will be a better president than Trump. So if Bidrn acts old or forgetful they need to double down as the Republicans do for Trump. Never say your candidate isn't up for the job. Say Biden works so much and has so many things on his mind, Bidrn does get tired its because he gives his all for the American people. That's what Republicans do.
The debate became the strategy just like Hilarys emails. Find an issue no matter how small and constantly beat it like a drum.
Perhaps it is easier for Republicans to stand by Trump and say the sky is green and the world is flat because their MAGA base is easier to gaslight than Dems. It seems to me that a big chunk of them are deeply credulous people. Perhaps the Dems (one hopes) are more like the little boy in Andersen's famous folktale and can see the Emperor is naked.
Yeah but Biden is not naked. He's old. He had a bad night. That does negate 50 years of experience. He had a very good 1st term. He chooses good people. He's respected by world leaders. Isn't that enough? Why is everybody piling on? There is no candidate that has a better than Biden. Anyone they tear to shreds. They will go thru that person's entire life looking for the slightest miistake, lie, bad comment, traffic tickets and they will blow it all up out of proportion. They will shred him or her.
Yep, thats all fair. If I thought it was simply 'a bad night' I'd still be with the team as it is and be with you on this. But I think there is something seriously wrong. What we saw wasn't just being tired or having a cold. He has declined in a remarkably accelerated fashion since his wonderful SOTU. I really believe it is likely he will continue to show a precipitating decline. If that is the case he will be humiliated in a spectacular fashion by the time the election arrives. None of us want that. I sincerely believe his stepping aside is the best hope there is to beat Trump. I would bet my last dollar that the Trump team are desperately hoping the Dems stick with Biden too. At the end of the day if Biden were up against Haley or Romney or any other Republican who was not out to toss democracy onto the rubbish tip of history I'd probably say stick with him as you suggest. But Trump and Project 2025 make that impossible for me.
His follow ups have not given any reason for changing the judgment that he just doesn't have it. The debate was set up to answer the age question once and for all. Unfortunately it did just that.
After Trump wins, Biden and his advisors will be despised and hated by most democrats. And even as a defender of his record, it will be hard for me to think well of him—or of the Democratic Party. Within my progressive group of friends, the despair is palpable.
If he wins it will be because the Democrats whined and cried like little girls because their candidate had a bad night. They should grow up and act like Republicans who stood behind a farting Trump while he was convicted of 34 felonies. And stands by him today.
Acting like Republicans is good in terms of attack attack attack repeatedly repeatedly repeatedly with one voice and one message. But there are certain things that Dems cannot get away with. For example, there is no liberal talk radio that compares with the brainwashing cult-breeding effects of the right-wing hate machine; liberal voters aren't wired to respond to it. Dems also can't get away with demanding its members get totally behind whoever their dear leader is. Especially when the dear leader is underwater in the aggregate of national and vital state polls. Unlike Trumpists, we see when the emperor clothes are in tatters. Can't wish it away. Biden is toast.
I agree with what you say. But Biden is not toast. He gave a good speech at the NATO summit. If you can think of someone who can beat Trump, I'm all eager to hear it.
I don't think anybody in the comments or on the Bulwark staff disputes that Biden can give a good speech. But can he think on his feet in unscripted environments. Can he form a coherent and compelling thought or an argument that has not been rehearsed verbatim beforehand? Biden's age has been THE issue for many months. I think Kamala could pull it off if she owned her 'prosecutor' persona. She wouldn't let up on Trump for a second and she's got youthful stamina. All of the sudden, Trump looks old.
Apparently he managed to preside over the NATO summit. He's been leading the country pretty well these four years. I liked Kamala and voted for her for Senate. So Biden has 15 times the amount of legislative and leadership experience than Harris but since its all about looks over substance. I guess she'll be fine. Why not? It's not like she'll beat Trump or anything
Yes, Biden has done astoundingly well at actually 'presidenting' and runs circles around just about anyone in his ability to push legislation through Congress. Not to mention creating an international coalition for Ukraine. Unfortunately, I don't think this election is about how good Biden is at his job as president. Otherwise, this race would not even be close. Trump should be losing by double digits. To paraphrase a famous quote, nobody ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American people. I hope I'm being too cynical.
Absolutely not. I do realize that the majority of people are ignorant. But that's why smart people and the Democratic Party have to hammer it home that they are behind Biden 24/7. That he would be the greatest president who ever lived. If we show weakness and give up on out candidate, we are saying the that being a really good president doesn't matter and if it doesn't matter, why not Trump. At least we'll be amused. Except for his being a fascist, rapist, NAZI and a lot of people might very well be killed.
You do have a good point about how Democrats always betray doubt and disunity in themselves, something Trumpist NEVER do.
Thanks. It would be easier if we didn't care
I'm sure you and I will be okay, probably, so why worry? Be happy. Wipe you laptop history clean so the MAGA police who hire Chinese IT experts to scan everyone's internet comments.
Fortunately I live in a blue area of a blue state. Good point about scrubbing histories. I am concerned that tech companies will roll over for Trump (revealing internet histories, emails etc) because they are afraid of being targeted. Hell, that's half of why companies (tech bros are another matter; half of them are authoritarian-curious) are making nice to him NOW.
The grown uo thing to do would be to say out loud what they're saying off the record, that they think Biden should drop out. More grown up than lying to their voters.
I am not sure that acting like Republicans is a good example of growing up. Neither is calculating probabilities based on multiple polls whining. The sense that many have that Biden is a weak campaigner is based on more than his first debate. And to say that he is a weak candidate is not to say that he is or would be a weak President. But then: the voters. I myself will vote for him, but given the State that I live in, my vote and the votes of my Democratic fellow travelers will count for nothing.
The thing I both hate admire about Reublicans is that no matter what, they support their candidate. Biden is a good President even old he will be a better president than Trump. So if Bidrn acts old or forgetful they need to double down as the Republicans do for Trump. Never say your candidate isn't up for the job. Say Biden works so much and has so many things on his mind, Bidrn does get tired its because he gives his all for the American people. That's what Republicans do.
The debate became the strategy just like Hilarys emails. Find an issue no matter how small and constantly beat it like a drum.
Perhaps it is easier for Republicans to stand by Trump and say the sky is green and the world is flat because their MAGA base is easier to gaslight than Dems. It seems to me that a big chunk of them are deeply credulous people. Perhaps the Dems (one hopes) are more like the little boy in Andersen's famous folktale and can see the Emperor is naked.
Yeah but Biden is not naked. He's old. He had a bad night. That does negate 50 years of experience. He had a very good 1st term. He chooses good people. He's respected by world leaders. Isn't that enough? Why is everybody piling on? There is no candidate that has a better than Biden. Anyone they tear to shreds. They will go thru that person's entire life looking for the slightest miistake, lie, bad comment, traffic tickets and they will blow it all up out of proportion. They will shred him or her.
Yep, thats all fair. If I thought it was simply 'a bad night' I'd still be with the team as it is and be with you on this. But I think there is something seriously wrong. What we saw wasn't just being tired or having a cold. He has declined in a remarkably accelerated fashion since his wonderful SOTU. I really believe it is likely he will continue to show a precipitating decline. If that is the case he will be humiliated in a spectacular fashion by the time the election arrives. None of us want that. I sincerely believe his stepping aside is the best hope there is to beat Trump. I would bet my last dollar that the Trump team are desperately hoping the Dems stick with Biden too. At the end of the day if Biden were up against Haley or Romney or any other Republican who was not out to toss democracy onto the rubbish tip of history I'd probably say stick with him as you suggest. But Trump and Project 2025 make that impossible for me.
His follow ups have not given any reason for changing the judgment that he just doesn't have it. The debate was set up to answer the age question once and for all. Unfortunately it did just that.