Elham Farah was a Christian music teacher. She taught Gazan children to play the piano. When the bombs came, she sheltered with other Christians in the Church of the Holy Family. During a quiet moment, she left the church to see if her house was still standing, and an IDF soldier shot her in the leg. The people inside the church tried to help her, but every time they tried the IDF opened fire. She died slowly in the street. Later, an IDF tank rolled over her corpse.
In 1948 the circumstances of the creation of Israel were inevitably going to create an existential long term conflict. If a reasonable accommodation for the Palestinians had been created at that time there could have been a foundation set for an eventual coexistence. 76 years of progressive oppression have made that very difficult, maybe impossible. Perhaps a Mandela could emerge. Hamas is not going to ever dominate an independent Palestine as the US would never let that happen. Any Palestinian authority is going to care more about Palestinian rights than Israel has.
A "reasonable accommodation" was offered in 1948. The Israelis accepted it, the Palestinians rejected it. As they did every other "reasonable accommodation" offered ever since. Here's the timeline, if you're interested:
--In 1948, the Palestinians rejected the UN Partition Plan that the Israelis accepted.
-- The 1979 Egypt-Israel peace negotiations offered the Palestinians autonomy, which would almost certainly have led to full independence.
-- The Oslo agreements of the 1990s laid out a path for Palestinian independence, but the process was derailed by terrorism.
-- In 2000, Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to create a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank.
-- In 2008, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert offered to withdraw from almost the entire West Bank and partition Jerusalem on a demographic basis.
Everything you write about Hamas is true. Why, then, did the Netanyahu government finance them? Anyone could have told Netanyahu that he was playing with fire, and likely did. But he knew better.
Nothing good can happen in Gaza as long as Netanyahu and Sinwar are running their respective shows.
So what I truly don’t understand at this point after months of fighting in Gaza, why don’t the Israelis yet have collaborators among the Gazans lined up to run start running things and to do some of the fighting? How do you get to an unconditional surrender of Hamas without creating a local opposition? They don’t need a truly mass movement, just offer some perks like getting families out and dangle some offers of Israeli citizenship and they’d start getting volunteers. Even the Russians can find collaborators in Ukraine, but it doesn’t look like Israel is even making the most minimal effort in Gaza.
I used to think that people with views such as WIll's were dehumanizing people who surely just wanted the same things that I'd want. Now I feel like things aren't so simple. Regardless, it's a hard problem. There are 2,000,000 people in Gaza, and they may or may not agree with Hamas, but, for the most part, I don't think that they are going to blame Hamas for what Israel has been doing. They are going to blame Israel. I'm worried that what is happening is only going to further radicalize a new generation. I don't know the solution, but not all problems can be solved through the military--Vietnam, for instance. I'm not sure what Will thinks that we were supposed to do there. It happened before I was born, but my understanding is that, regardless of whether someone supported the war, the conflict had become a stalemate, and continuing to send soldiers there was becoming untenable for us.
It is one thing to understand the difficulties in fighting Hamas. It is another to read the disgusting comments made by Israeli leaders about the Palestinian people... suggesting that it's OK to eliminate them, making it OK to kill them...and seeing the bombing that is clearly aimed at killing them, ruining their orchards, vineyards, crop fields... all the evidences of intended genocide, not allowing water and food in which is too obviously aimed at Palestinians.
Yep. Also it was just an absolute sinkhole for US blood and treasure. We didn’t have any other strategy. I’m not even blaming them. It’s just that (1) their was political consensus to leave, (2) we had no better ideas of what different to do and (3) even if we had a “different idea” we had so poisoned the well with the afghans that I’m not sure we could execute a perfect strategy.
The ending in Afghanistan was etched in stone the day that the Bush Administration went in there. What should have been a police action became a hopeless, futile occupation.
It’s definitely clear in retrospect. I probably should have known it before it happened.
What is so frustrating is listening to people now saying we should have stayed longer. I mean, the government we put into effect collapsed before we could even evacuate. That’s how awful it was.
I get wanting to do better but, man, we weren’t capable of doing it.
Who could possibly base a presidential vote on campus protests? I find all the hand wringing over "Biden must condemn campus protests to save the moderate vote". If we lived in a well informed and serious society it wouldn't matter bc all the discussions would be "Trump must admit he lost and agree to respect the results of the 2024 vote to have a chance with moderate voters" which leads me to the conclusion that we deserve a demented narcissistic crazy man bc of the fact he's even seriously being considered by enough people he has a legit shot to win.... 'Merica is doomed I'm moving l...
"It’s important to remind ourselves that terrorist organizations do not have our values, even if we wish they did."
Funny that Selber doesn't note the irony of his Israeli apologist stance in making this statement. Newsflash: neither does Israel or the IDF. His selective registering of human suffering is pretty transparently racist.
So does Selber think Israel shares our common Western-style liberal values? If so, Selber needs to read a book once in a while.
Shared values, huh? Okay, riddle me this, do these actions reflect Western-style values?
1) Israel is the country that came up with the "enhanced interrogation techniques" (i.e. torture), that the CIA used as its manual of operations.
2) Freedom of speech? Only if you're a Jewish Israeli. MULTIPLE Jewish cabinet members and even Natanyahu have OPENLY called for genocide in Gaza. Israeli AG has done fuck all about it. Yet any Arab Israeli that posts any message that could possibly be interpreted as defending Palestians will be IMMEDIATELY arrested and detained without any process, by Israeli police for the vague crime of "incitement". In fact, the Israeli government can detain Palestinians (and only Palestians) for months without access to a court--the government won't even tell their families whether their loved one is detained, much less where, and SUPER much less giving them access to lawyers.
3) Israel/IDF have killed over 100 journalists, mostly Arab in the 7 months of the war, which needs to be contrasted by the fact that in 8 YEARS of the war in Iraq, being a country with no properly functioning government at the time, a total of 150 journalists were killed.
4) How's about the fact that Israel has LITERALLY provided not a fucking grain of rice in humanitarian aid to Gaza? Their largesse ends at ALLOWING international aid agencies to provide aid, and even then the IDF is literally murdering aid workers on the regular. To date, more than 202 aid workers have been killed by the IDF.
5) How's about the fact that the Israeli cabinet just voted UNANIMOUSLY to shut down Al-Jazeera? Not only that they raided their offices in the West Bank.
6) Or how's about the fact that the IDF has indiscriminately bombed Gaza to the extent that 35k residents of Gaza have been killed, 70% of whom are women and children.
Selber, if you honestly think that Israeli conduct in this war accords with our values, I strongly disagree. Go frack off to North Korea if those are the values you admire.
Hamas may or may not survive. It will, in the end, make no difference. Israel cannot continue to oppress a people, as they have, without another Hamas rising out of the ashes. Just like Irgun or the Stern Gang, a savagely oppressed people will spawn a violent resistance which operates outside of conventional morals believing that they have no alternative. Until the Palestinians are given the human rights and opportunities that are the God-given birthright of all men, there will be no peace. If Israel continues the policies of the current government, and, seemingly the popular will, they will cement their position as a global pariah as vile as the South African apartheid regime.
You’re right as far as it goes. But, what reason is there to think that the leadership of an independent Palestine would care about human rights? Palestine under Hamas would be about as free as Spain under Franco.
Sadly, as with all Bulwark commentators, the likes of Will Selber should probably keep their mouths shut until they inform themselves on the overall history and context of Israeli propaganda they are lapping up, probably due to some deep seated racism. For for the love of god, you have access to Will Salentan, just ask him questions and LISTEN.
"We prevented our Afghan allies from launching offensive operations but promised them help fighting an “active defense” campaign. In turn, the Taliban launched a brutal assassination campaign that targeted Afghan Air Force pilots, commandos, activists, and journalists."
Fun fact, you know how many journalists died in the entire 20 year war in Afghanistan? 65.
You know how many journalists have been killed by the IDF in 6 MONTHS? At least 100.
How about aid workers? To date, the IDF has slaughtered 224 aid workers in Gaza.
Jesus, Bulwark contributors, please grow a moral spine before this conflict is over. You're losing ALL credibility fast.
I would generally agree but now that I've been paying for a membership for two years (and have gifted subscriptions to at least a dozen friends) I'm seeing some fundamental moral deficits in their coverage.
Hints:
1) Bulwark only covered the war in Gaza at the initial phases of the war when Israel was rightly and righteousnessly counter-attacking a brutal terrorist attack by Hamas terrorists.
2) However, once public opinion turned around mid-November, the Bulwark just coincidentally happened to stop caring about the war. Seriously, look it up, the Bulwark said fuck all about the war in Gaza from around mid-November until the end of April--a good month after it became clear this would be a significant electoral issue for young Democrats. Bulwark ... crickets.
3) Most disgraceful conduct is won by JVL who has been so intentionally obtuse on the issue that he's not even trying to hide that he regards Muslims/Arabs as subhuman.
I'll argue the point. As of October 8, 2023, Israeli cabinet ministers were openly and proudly announcing that they were blockading Gaza, cutting off all electricity, food, water, medicine, and fuel to 2.2 MILLION civilians in Gaza as a negotiating tactic. This a clear war crime (collective punishment) that was ironically widely used by Nazis (i.e. they'd execute a dozen random civilians for every Nazi soldier killed).
Here's where the Bulwark, but JVL in particular get extra ... special.
Mid-November, and I believe it was JVL's final post before resuming in April, he glossed over any Israeli wrongdoing.
When I pointed out that the war crime of collective punishments was being routinely committed, JVL actually replied to the comment, saying he'd admit that Israel was committing the war crime of collective punishments if it were proven to be the case.
I immediately pointed out AND QUOTED government cabinet officials in Israel blatantly admitting to the blockade as a negotiating strategy.
JVL's response: silence.
I've called him out on it at least a dozen times, he's never been able to live up to his promise. He just ignores the criticism which is be fine with if the bloody islamaphobist would just STFU and stop commenting on a topic where he's evidently biased.
Oh not only that, I've added him to an FB messenger group where I cut-and-paste content from the ISRAELI newspaper, Haaretz.
He's never bothered to read any article. JVL isn't just obtuse, he's aggressively ignorant.
Second clue that the Bulwark staff isn't particularly committed to Western-style liberal values is that, with the exception of Saletan, they all worship at the feet of Reagan.
No matter how hard I try, Bulwark contributors are utterly incapable of comprehending that the Reagan administration was a straight-line to Trumpism. That alone should cause you to question their ACTUAL adherence to the values of a liberal democracy.
Look comparing the situation in Israel to our situation(s) in Vietnam and Afghanistan is just dumb. American forces aren't on the ground and the problem isn't that Israel is losing the war: it's not. It's losing the peace, which is worse.
It takes some pretty significant Israeli apologism to refer to the World Central Kitchen strike as a "tragedy". I think "intentional murder" is the apt term. Let me document why:
1) The three vehicles were clearly marked both on their sides and roofs as World Central Kitchen aid vehicles.
2) The three vehicles were travelling a route previously approved by the IDF, and at the time approved by the IDF.
3) The IDF chose to intentionally target an aid convoy. Why? Because their flawed intelligence was that ONE occupant was a Palestinian terrorist (which turned out to be totally false).
4) Not only that, when the drone struck the first vehicle, thankfully killing no one, the occupants of the remaining two vehicles were in direct contact with the IDF telling them that they had "erroneously" bombed an approved aid convoy.
5) IDF ignored the communication and bombed the second vehicle, again, miraculously killing no one. WCK workers AGAIN contacted the IDF to plead that they stop bombing the convoy.
6) Nevertheless, once all the injured passengers of the first two vehicles were transferred to the remaining vehicle, an Israeli drone, bombed the vehicle, killing everyone inside.
Would you refer to the Holocaust as a "tragedy"? Or would you call it the intentional genocide of Jewish civilians?
I'm genuinely puzzled as to why every single contributor to the Bulwark with the exception of Will Saletan, may as well be working for the Israeli propaganda department. JVL being the worst offender in so far as he's intentionally obtuse when people such as myself are giving them all the resources they need to bloody arrive at an informed position without any effort.
I am not that knowledgeable about the founding of Israel, but the Bulwark readership is usually quite well-informed. Does anyone know why a Palestinian state wasn't created alongside the state of Israel? Why the powers that be at the time carved out one set of land and called it Israel, and didn't carve another set of boundaries and call it Palestine?
Even this is massively reductionist, but here goes:
In the 1940s, the whole area was a British colonial area. Britain eventually decides to wash its hands of the whole region along similar decolonization efforts, and there is a partition plan to divide it up into a Jewish state and an Arab state, with Jerusalem itself being an international neutral city. That's interrupted by the 1948 war, and arguably, you don't have a state of Israel at that time, you have various Jewish groups that coalesce into a state during/after the war. But when the dust clears, Israel has won the war, and controls the internationally recognized parts of Israel. The West Bank is (mostly) controlled by Jordan, and Gaza is controlled by Egypt, who had waded into the conflict.
You'll note that there is no indigenous Palestinian state in that trifecta. Since that point, the West Bank and Gaza have shifted who has been occupying them, but the Palestinians themselves have never been in political sovereignty unless you want to argue Gaza post 2005. And they've never developed any of the institutions normally associated with statehood.
In 1948 the Jews accepted the UN partition plan, the Palestinians didn't. Instead, they called on the surrounding Arab states to invade to destroy the resulting Jewish state. They tried, and failed. The decision not to set up a Palestinian state at that time was an Egyptian and Jordanian decision. The war didn't just happen.
I remember reading that there is an Arab recognized Gazan entity that isn't Hamas. So it seems that current Gaza isn't an entity that even Arabs/Muslims recognize. So why the heck should Israel or any country deal with Hamas, as it seems to be nothing more than a terrorist Muslim entity? And why aren't Egypt, Jordan, etc. involved in telling Hamas to show the F* up and free their populations from their terror? Where is their pressure on Hamas to stop it the fighting?
"What was the intent of Jewish violence under the British Mandate?
In the 11 years leading up to the creation of the state of Israel in Palestine in 1948, Zionist extremists who lived in the territory of Palestine under the British Mandate used terrorism as a military strategy to accelerate the establishment of an independent Jewish state. Their violence was directed against the British authorities who governed Palestine and against the Palestinian indigenous population throughout Palestine. Over 57 violent attacks were carried out by Zionist terrorist groups (e.g. Haganah, Lehi, Irgun – ultra-nationalist groups from the far right wing of the Revisionist Zionist movement) killing over 5,000 Palestinians and dozens of British.[2] While Zionist terrorist groups assassinated UN personnel, murdered British officers and attacked British military headquarters to overthrow the Mandate, they terrorized Palestinian inhabitants in order to provoke mass flight, displacement and migration."
You should probably also read up on the Nakba. The history taught to Israeli children, and the diaspora is that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians just voluntarily chose to leave their ancestral homes during the 1948 war.
Yitzac Rabin himself freely admitted to ordering troops under his command to forcibly expel Palestinians from what is now considered Israel proper.
"Israeli militias expelled between 60,000 and 70,000 inhabitants of the two towns and refugees from nearby villages under direct orders from Yitzhak Rabin – who was at the time director of operations for Operation Dani – with David Ben-Gurion’s agreement. Those who sought shelter in the Lydda mosque were massacred. Between 80 and 176 people inside Dahmash Mosque were massacred with machine guns, grenades and rockets. Twenty-five were killed elsewhere."
I mean, the 'recognized' (for whatever worth that sort of international recognition is) quasi-state governmental authority over Gaza still belongs to Fatah and the PLO. But they were as ineffective in Gaza as they were in the West Bank, and Hamas seized control after factional war during 2006-2007.
But people deal with Hamas because despite the lack of international legitimacy, they are the ones de facto in control of Gaza, and they're not going away anytime soon. And they do have enough power to command that kind of attention, so what else can you do?
As for why Egypt, Jordan, et al aren't applying pressure, why should they? They're hardly brimming with sympathy for the Palestinians or for Israel. As long as they're not being attacked themselves, why stick your hand into that proverbial scorpion pit?
When you've got people on your borders attacking their neighbors on the other border, it kind of affects you as well. Bombs/planes/drones tend to go to places they're not supposed to. Also, from a religious standpoint, aren't they fellow Muslims? Do they not care about them starving, dying, hurting? Why are Americans caring more about people thousands of miles away, and threatening to inflict a fascist on the US, because they think our president has a magical wand to fix that mess, than the countries who claim to love their fellow Muslims and who have been involved in that mess for decades? Where is the pressure on Iran and Hamas from the Saudis, Qatar, etc.? Kind of ironic that the students are protesting schools and people that have no control over those countries, yet ignore embassies of Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iran, etc. who do have far more potential control than the US over Hamas.
Substitute "Russia" for "Hamas" in Will Silber's analysis, and you have an understanding of the war in Ukraine as well. Russia does not share our values--no matter what trump and MAGA say. The US and NATO must aid Ukraine all the way to victory, not set it up for a bad bargain.
Elham Farah was a Christian music teacher. She taught Gazan children to play the piano. When the bombs came, she sheltered with other Christians in the Church of the Holy Family. During a quiet moment, she left the church to see if her house was still standing, and an IDF soldier shot her in the leg. The people inside the church tried to help her, but every time they tried the IDF opened fire. She died slowly in the street. Later, an IDF tank rolled over her corpse.
In 1948 the circumstances of the creation of Israel were inevitably going to create an existential long term conflict. If a reasonable accommodation for the Palestinians had been created at that time there could have been a foundation set for an eventual coexistence. 76 years of progressive oppression have made that very difficult, maybe impossible. Perhaps a Mandela could emerge. Hamas is not going to ever dominate an independent Palestine as the US would never let that happen. Any Palestinian authority is going to care more about Palestinian rights than Israel has.
A "reasonable accommodation" was offered in 1948. The Israelis accepted it, the Palestinians rejected it. As they did every other "reasonable accommodation" offered ever since. Here's the timeline, if you're interested:
--In 1948, the Palestinians rejected the UN Partition Plan that the Israelis accepted.
-- The 1979 Egypt-Israel peace negotiations offered the Palestinians autonomy, which would almost certainly have led to full independence.
-- The Oslo agreements of the 1990s laid out a path for Palestinian independence, but the process was derailed by terrorism.
-- In 2000, Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to create a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank.
-- In 2008, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert offered to withdraw from almost the entire West Bank and partition Jerusalem on a demographic basis.
Everything you write about Hamas is true. Why, then, did the Netanyahu government finance them? Anyone could have told Netanyahu that he was playing with fire, and likely did. But he knew better.
Nothing good can happen in Gaza as long as Netanyahu and Sinwar are running their respective shows.
So what I truly don’t understand at this point after months of fighting in Gaza, why don’t the Israelis yet have collaborators among the Gazans lined up to run start running things and to do some of the fighting? How do you get to an unconditional surrender of Hamas without creating a local opposition? They don’t need a truly mass movement, just offer some perks like getting families out and dangle some offers of Israeli citizenship and they’d start getting volunteers. Even the Russians can find collaborators in Ukraine, but it doesn’t look like Israel is even making the most minimal effort in Gaza.
I used to think that people with views such as WIll's were dehumanizing people who surely just wanted the same things that I'd want. Now I feel like things aren't so simple. Regardless, it's a hard problem. There are 2,000,000 people in Gaza, and they may or may not agree with Hamas, but, for the most part, I don't think that they are going to blame Hamas for what Israel has been doing. They are going to blame Israel. I'm worried that what is happening is only going to further radicalize a new generation. I don't know the solution, but not all problems can be solved through the military--Vietnam, for instance. I'm not sure what Will thinks that we were supposed to do there. It happened before I was born, but my understanding is that, regardless of whether someone supported the war, the conflict had become a stalemate, and continuing to send soldiers there was becoming untenable for us.
It is one thing to understand the difficulties in fighting Hamas. It is another to read the disgusting comments made by Israeli leaders about the Palestinian people... suggesting that it's OK to eliminate them, making it OK to kill them...and seeing the bombing that is clearly aimed at killing them, ruining their orchards, vineyards, crop fields... all the evidences of intended genocide, not allowing water and food in which is too obviously aimed at Palestinians.
Hamas and the Israeli right have a great deal in common: both are autocratic, corrupt, racist, and violent; neither gives a damn about Palestinians.
Yep. Also it was just an absolute sinkhole for US blood and treasure. We didn’t have any other strategy. I’m not even blaming them. It’s just that (1) their was political consensus to leave, (2) we had no better ideas of what different to do and (3) even if we had a “different idea” we had so poisoned the well with the afghans that I’m not sure we could execute a perfect strategy.
The ending in Afghanistan was etched in stone the day that the Bush Administration went in there. What should have been a police action became a hopeless, futile occupation.
It’s definitely clear in retrospect. I probably should have known it before it happened.
What is so frustrating is listening to people now saying we should have stayed longer. I mean, the government we put into effect collapsed before we could even evacuate. That’s how awful it was.
I get wanting to do better but, man, we weren’t capable of doing it.
Who could possibly base a presidential vote on campus protests? I find all the hand wringing over "Biden must condemn campus protests to save the moderate vote". If we lived in a well informed and serious society it wouldn't matter bc all the discussions would be "Trump must admit he lost and agree to respect the results of the 2024 vote to have a chance with moderate voters" which leads me to the conclusion that we deserve a demented narcissistic crazy man bc of the fact he's even seriously being considered by enough people he has a legit shot to win.... 'Merica is doomed I'm moving l...
"It’s important to remind ourselves that terrorist organizations do not have our values, even if we wish they did."
Funny that Selber doesn't note the irony of his Israeli apologist stance in making this statement. Newsflash: neither does Israel or the IDF. His selective registering of human suffering is pretty transparently racist.
So does Selber think Israel shares our common Western-style liberal values? If so, Selber needs to read a book once in a while.
Shared values, huh? Okay, riddle me this, do these actions reflect Western-style values?
1) Israel is the country that came up with the "enhanced interrogation techniques" (i.e. torture), that the CIA used as its manual of operations.
2) Freedom of speech? Only if you're a Jewish Israeli. MULTIPLE Jewish cabinet members and even Natanyahu have OPENLY called for genocide in Gaza. Israeli AG has done fuck all about it. Yet any Arab Israeli that posts any message that could possibly be interpreted as defending Palestians will be IMMEDIATELY arrested and detained without any process, by Israeli police for the vague crime of "incitement". In fact, the Israeli government can detain Palestinians (and only Palestians) for months without access to a court--the government won't even tell their families whether their loved one is detained, much less where, and SUPER much less giving them access to lawyers.
3) Israel/IDF have killed over 100 journalists, mostly Arab in the 7 months of the war, which needs to be contrasted by the fact that in 8 YEARS of the war in Iraq, being a country with no properly functioning government at the time, a total of 150 journalists were killed.
4) How's about the fact that Israel has LITERALLY provided not a fucking grain of rice in humanitarian aid to Gaza? Their largesse ends at ALLOWING international aid agencies to provide aid, and even then the IDF is literally murdering aid workers on the regular. To date, more than 202 aid workers have been killed by the IDF.
5) How's about the fact that the Israeli cabinet just voted UNANIMOUSLY to shut down Al-Jazeera? Not only that they raided their offices in the West Bank.
6) Or how's about the fact that the IDF has indiscriminately bombed Gaza to the extent that 35k residents of Gaza have been killed, 70% of whom are women and children.
Selber, if you honestly think that Israeli conduct in this war accords with our values, I strongly disagree. Go frack off to North Korea if those are the values you admire.
"It’s important to remind ourselves that terrorist organizations do not have our values, even if we wish they did."
Neither does the Israeli right. That’s what’s so excruciating: nobody involved is worth a damn.
Let's Go Knicks!
Hamas may or may not survive. It will, in the end, make no difference. Israel cannot continue to oppress a people, as they have, without another Hamas rising out of the ashes. Just like Irgun or the Stern Gang, a savagely oppressed people will spawn a violent resistance which operates outside of conventional morals believing that they have no alternative. Until the Palestinians are given the human rights and opportunities that are the God-given birthright of all men, there will be no peace. If Israel continues the policies of the current government, and, seemingly the popular will, they will cement their position as a global pariah as vile as the South African apartheid regime.
You’re right as far as it goes. But, what reason is there to think that the leadership of an independent Palestine would care about human rights? Palestine under Hamas would be about as free as Spain under Franco.
Sadly, as with all Bulwark commentators, the likes of Will Selber should probably keep their mouths shut until they inform themselves on the overall history and context of Israeli propaganda they are lapping up, probably due to some deep seated racism. For for the love of god, you have access to Will Salentan, just ask him questions and LISTEN.
"We prevented our Afghan allies from launching offensive operations but promised them help fighting an “active defense” campaign. In turn, the Taliban launched a brutal assassination campaign that targeted Afghan Air Force pilots, commandos, activists, and journalists."
Fun fact, you know how many journalists died in the entire 20 year war in Afghanistan? 65.
You know how many journalists have been killed by the IDF in 6 MONTHS? At least 100.
How about aid workers? To date, the IDF has slaughtered 224 aid workers in Gaza.
Jesus, Bulwark contributors, please grow a moral spine before this conflict is over. You're losing ALL credibility fast.
Yeah I don't agree with them either but I'm pretty sure they have a moral spine and credibility.
Also pretty sure Jesus has not got a lot to do with this.
I would generally agree but now that I've been paying for a membership for two years (and have gifted subscriptions to at least a dozen friends) I'm seeing some fundamental moral deficits in their coverage.
Hints:
1) Bulwark only covered the war in Gaza at the initial phases of the war when Israel was rightly and righteousnessly counter-attacking a brutal terrorist attack by Hamas terrorists.
2) However, once public opinion turned around mid-November, the Bulwark just coincidentally happened to stop caring about the war. Seriously, look it up, the Bulwark said fuck all about the war in Gaza from around mid-November until the end of April--a good month after it became clear this would be a significant electoral issue for young Democrats. Bulwark ... crickets.
3) Most disgraceful conduct is won by JVL who has been so intentionally obtuse on the issue that he's not even trying to hide that he regards Muslims/Arabs as subhuman.
I'll argue the point. As of October 8, 2023, Israeli cabinet ministers were openly and proudly announcing that they were blockading Gaza, cutting off all electricity, food, water, medicine, and fuel to 2.2 MILLION civilians in Gaza as a negotiating tactic. This a clear war crime (collective punishment) that was ironically widely used by Nazis (i.e. they'd execute a dozen random civilians for every Nazi soldier killed).
Here's where the Bulwark, but JVL in particular get extra ... special.
Mid-November, and I believe it was JVL's final post before resuming in April, he glossed over any Israeli wrongdoing.
When I pointed out that the war crime of collective punishments was being routinely committed, JVL actually replied to the comment, saying he'd admit that Israel was committing the war crime of collective punishments if it were proven to be the case.
I immediately pointed out AND QUOTED government cabinet officials in Israel blatantly admitting to the blockade as a negotiating strategy.
JVL's response: silence.
I've called him out on it at least a dozen times, he's never been able to live up to his promise. He just ignores the criticism which is be fine with if the bloody islamaphobist would just STFU and stop commenting on a topic where he's evidently biased.
Oh not only that, I've added him to an FB messenger group where I cut-and-paste content from the ISRAELI newspaper, Haaretz.
He's never bothered to read any article. JVL isn't just obtuse, he's aggressively ignorant.
Second clue that the Bulwark staff isn't particularly committed to Western-style liberal values is that, with the exception of Saletan, they all worship at the feet of Reagan.
No matter how hard I try, Bulwark contributors are utterly incapable of comprehending that the Reagan administration was a straight-line to Trumpism. That alone should cause you to question their ACTUAL adherence to the values of a liberal democracy.
Look comparing the situation in Israel to our situation(s) in Vietnam and Afghanistan is just dumb. American forces aren't on the ground and the problem isn't that Israel is losing the war: it's not. It's losing the peace, which is worse.
"[T]ragic World Central Kitchen strike ..."
It takes some pretty significant Israeli apologism to refer to the World Central Kitchen strike as a "tragedy". I think "intentional murder" is the apt term. Let me document why:
1) The three vehicles were clearly marked both on their sides and roofs as World Central Kitchen aid vehicles.
2) The three vehicles were travelling a route previously approved by the IDF, and at the time approved by the IDF.
3) The IDF chose to intentionally target an aid convoy. Why? Because their flawed intelligence was that ONE occupant was a Palestinian terrorist (which turned out to be totally false).
4) Not only that, when the drone struck the first vehicle, thankfully killing no one, the occupants of the remaining two vehicles were in direct contact with the IDF telling them that they had "erroneously" bombed an approved aid convoy.
5) IDF ignored the communication and bombed the second vehicle, again, miraculously killing no one. WCK workers AGAIN contacted the IDF to plead that they stop bombing the convoy.
6) Nevertheless, once all the injured passengers of the first two vehicles were transferred to the remaining vehicle, an Israeli drone, bombed the vehicle, killing everyone inside.
Would you refer to the Holocaust as a "tragedy"? Or would you call it the intentional genocide of Jewish civilians?
I'm genuinely puzzled as to why every single contributor to the Bulwark with the exception of Will Saletan, may as well be working for the Israeli propaganda department. JVL being the worst offender in so far as he's intentionally obtuse when people such as myself are giving them all the resources they need to bloody arrive at an informed position without any effort.
The FIRST strike on the WCK convoy might be rated as a tragedy. The SECOND and THIRD(!!!) were murder. Couldn’t agree with you more.
Absolutely crazy that the IDF didn't lose any credibility in this insane attack.
I am not that knowledgeable about the founding of Israel, but the Bulwark readership is usually quite well-informed. Does anyone know why a Palestinian state wasn't created alongside the state of Israel? Why the powers that be at the time carved out one set of land and called it Israel, and didn't carve another set of boundaries and call it Palestine?
Even this is massively reductionist, but here goes:
In the 1940s, the whole area was a British colonial area. Britain eventually decides to wash its hands of the whole region along similar decolonization efforts, and there is a partition plan to divide it up into a Jewish state and an Arab state, with Jerusalem itself being an international neutral city. That's interrupted by the 1948 war, and arguably, you don't have a state of Israel at that time, you have various Jewish groups that coalesce into a state during/after the war. But when the dust clears, Israel has won the war, and controls the internationally recognized parts of Israel. The West Bank is (mostly) controlled by Jordan, and Gaza is controlled by Egypt, who had waded into the conflict.
You'll note that there is no indigenous Palestinian state in that trifecta. Since that point, the West Bank and Gaza have shifted who has been occupying them, but the Palestinians themselves have never been in political sovereignty unless you want to argue Gaza post 2005. And they've never developed any of the institutions normally associated with statehood.
In 1948 the Jews accepted the UN partition plan, the Palestinians didn't. Instead, they called on the surrounding Arab states to invade to destroy the resulting Jewish state. They tried, and failed. The decision not to set up a Palestinian state at that time was an Egyptian and Jordanian decision. The war didn't just happen.
I remember reading that there is an Arab recognized Gazan entity that isn't Hamas. So it seems that current Gaza isn't an entity that even Arabs/Muslims recognize. So why the heck should Israel or any country deal with Hamas, as it seems to be nothing more than a terrorist Muslim entity? And why aren't Egypt, Jordan, etc. involved in telling Hamas to show the F* up and free their populations from their terror? Where is their pressure on Hamas to stop it the fighting?
Umm because they have the Israeli hostages.
Also, in fairness have you read about the terrorist history of the Israeli military??
https://www.cjpme.org/fs_023
"What was the intent of Jewish violence under the British Mandate?
In the 11 years leading up to the creation of the state of Israel in Palestine in 1948, Zionist extremists who lived in the territory of Palestine under the British Mandate used terrorism as a military strategy to accelerate the establishment of an independent Jewish state. Their violence was directed against the British authorities who governed Palestine and against the Palestinian indigenous population throughout Palestine. Over 57 violent attacks were carried out by Zionist terrorist groups (e.g. Haganah, Lehi, Irgun – ultra-nationalist groups from the far right wing of the Revisionist Zionist movement) killing over 5,000 Palestinians and dozens of British.[2] While Zionist terrorist groups assassinated UN personnel, murdered British officers and attacked British military headquarters to overthrow the Mandate, they terrorized Palestinian inhabitants in order to provoke mass flight, displacement and migration."
You should probably also read up on the Nakba. The history taught to Israeli children, and the diaspora is that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians just voluntarily chose to leave their ancestral homes during the 1948 war.
Yitzac Rabin himself freely admitted to ordering troops under his command to forcibly expel Palestinians from what is now considered Israel proper.
"Israeli militias expelled between 60,000 and 70,000 inhabitants of the two towns and refugees from nearby villages under direct orders from Yitzhak Rabin – who was at the time director of operations for Operation Dani – with David Ben-Gurion’s agreement. Those who sought shelter in the Lydda mosque were massacred. Between 80 and 176 people inside Dahmash Mosque were massacred with machine guns, grenades and rockets. Twenty-five were killed elsewhere."
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/15/the-nakba-five-palestinian-towns-massacred-75-years-ago
I mean, the 'recognized' (for whatever worth that sort of international recognition is) quasi-state governmental authority over Gaza still belongs to Fatah and the PLO. But they were as ineffective in Gaza as they were in the West Bank, and Hamas seized control after factional war during 2006-2007.
But people deal with Hamas because despite the lack of international legitimacy, they are the ones de facto in control of Gaza, and they're not going away anytime soon. And they do have enough power to command that kind of attention, so what else can you do?
As for why Egypt, Jordan, et al aren't applying pressure, why should they? They're hardly brimming with sympathy for the Palestinians or for Israel. As long as they're not being attacked themselves, why stick your hand into that proverbial scorpion pit?
When you've got people on your borders attacking their neighbors on the other border, it kind of affects you as well. Bombs/planes/drones tend to go to places they're not supposed to. Also, from a religious standpoint, aren't they fellow Muslims? Do they not care about them starving, dying, hurting? Why are Americans caring more about people thousands of miles away, and threatening to inflict a fascist on the US, because they think our president has a magical wand to fix that mess, than the countries who claim to love their fellow Muslims and who have been involved in that mess for decades? Where is the pressure on Iran and Hamas from the Saudis, Qatar, etc.? Kind of ironic that the students are protesting schools and people that have no control over those countries, yet ignore embassies of Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iran, etc. who do have far more potential control than the US over Hamas.
Substitute "Russia" for "Hamas" in Will Silber's analysis, and you have an understanding of the war in Ukraine as well. Russia does not share our values--no matter what trump and MAGA say. The US and NATO must aid Ukraine all the way to victory, not set it up for a bad bargain.