"Staying home" is the unfortunate story of American democracy, at least in last 100 years. 60-65% turnout should be considered shameful, it's not a democracy. As long as POTUS are elected by less than 1/3 of the eligible voters, all the debate and complaining is just whistling in the wind. It's minority government, and all you're going to get. Maybe what an apathetic citizenry deserves. Great book everyone who cares should read: "White Poverty" by William Barber (has all the numbers and a core reason behind "minority rule."
My biggest fear is that democrats will stay home. Biden has many accomplishments and is a consequential president, but Trump and his cult are loud and they are liars. They not only have the constant lies that Trump tells, but they have Fox, OAN, Newsmax, the War Room, etc. what do we have that spreads the truth regarding the Biden democratic record? Biden’s handlers need to be fired because we are not going to win unless we have another candidate!
My main concern regarding Biden actually is not whether he is up to governing for the next four years. The accomplishments of last three years, with only a few exceptions (Afghanistan withdrawal), have provided ample evidence that he has a team that is capable of shepherding him and us through another term with better than average results. My big worry is that Biden the candidate is not capable of beating Trump. Those who say otherwise are ignoring the the polls, including those in the all important swing states where he is losing by a lot. The very fact that the race is so close when one of the candidates is a criminal sociopath - a twice impeached convicted felon - is disputing the claim that Joe Biden is the best candidate to take on Trump. Sure it's risky to change horses in mid-stream, but weigh that against the risk that is staring us in the face - Biden is currently losing to Trump, the numbers have not moved much in months, and we are running out time.
I joined the Bulwark in response to a wonderful article by Cathy Young/Charlie Sikes entitled, ‘The Hinge of Fate’ published shortly after the’22 Russian invasion of Ukraine. It seems we are at a similar moment now where the future of the free world hangs very much in the balance. We all know what we saw in Thursday’s debate and Bob Woodward is very much on mark in saying we MUST learn the ‘How and Why’ of this immediately to plan next steps. We have all seen the effects on family members aging and this experience that many of us have had over decades should point us towards some very specific questions. I am not a doctor and will only relate experiences of my mother’s illness as it relates to these questions.
As my mother’s cognition failed, we sought every kind of test and she was found negative for Altheimers and many other specific dementias. In the end a number off doctors explained to us that her diminishment was more likely the result of many small events that they called ‘micro-strokes ‘.They said that the vascular problems that run in our family especially a tendency towards aneurism could cause tiny pieces of arterial plaque to float free and become lodged in the very smallest blood vessels in the brain causing a number of tiny almost imperceptible stroke like events. These are individually almost impossible to diagnose but their effect is cumulative. Over time, as my mother lost recognition of me as anyone other than the nice young man who brought her milkshakes, everyone in our family accepted this explanation. It fit every aspect of the progression of her disease.
I recount our experience not as uninformed amateur diagnoses for the President but to point us towards questions that need be comprehensively answered immediately. These are in nature utterly different than the general findings of even the most thorough standard physical medical examination. The President needs to undergo all five major types of brain scan repeatably of a period of several weeks. The most important of these would be the CT Angiography which would show any variation in circulation within the brain over time. The question that needs to be answered is not whether the President is a healthy 81 year old, but rather are there any detectable accumulating changes in brain circulation over time in the brain or other anomaly that could suggest changes in cognition. These questions are made all the more urgent by the fact that the President suffered a life-threatening aneurism decades ago and should be counted as member of a high-risk group in this regard
.
The answer to these questions would go some way towards answering at least the ‘How’ that Bob Woodward posits and point to a prognosis for the President. Anything less would indicate only further gaslighting from members of this administration.
If Democrats were given to conspiracy theories, there would be rumour flying that a Republican dirty tricks operative somehow managed to drug Biden's food or drink in Atlanta.
I really enjoy reading the bulwark. On this point about biden dropping out you are falling short. Game plan the rest of it out. What happens between when he drops out and election day. Look around all the corners and tell us what you see. Will it be summer 1968 all over again? Or will the cats be herded in time to save us from dictatorship? Can democrats take the house and senate thereby providing a bulwark against trump and the maga scotus? There has to be more than just drop out.
Hey, Tim, what happens between when he releases his delegates and the convention? A number of candidates throw their hats in the ring, start making speeches, tour the country to meet voters/press the flesh. We have to stop being so spooked 50+ years later about what happened in Chicago. The D party stalwarts need to stop coddling Biden, and shoveling sand before our eyes. We know what we saw, and it’s unacceptable on so many levels. If the top of the ticket drags the down ballot races, then we are totally screwed. It’s time for Ds to hike up their pants, and behave like the adults they’ve shown themselves to be in 2018, 2020 and 2022.
That is the other question. How does releasing delegates work? Do they go back into the pool for a clean do over or does he throw his delegates behind a candidate which would surely make that candidate the nominee? How can the money he has raised to date be used for another candidate? I only used 1968 as an example wondering when in history an open convention for one party has resulted in a successful election. Maybe it will be. Maybe all the worry is all in the before times like when being a felon was disqualifying. Maybe the spectacle of an open convention will be the key to defeating the spectacle of a criminal opponent. Maybe is why I hoped the bulwark writers who have experience and insight into these things would go several steps beyond biden must step down.
My initial reaction to the debate was absolute shock and extreme disappointment. We expected and needed Biden to rise to the occasion and he just didn't. But I've calmed down now. He's the D's candidate and if he chooses not to step down we are riding that horse across the finish line. And if he doesn't make the next 4 years, that would be sad but OK. None of us is guaranteed to be here in four years. If I get pushback from Republicans my stance is going to be "I'd rather support a good man who has some bad days than a bad man who has no good days."
The GOP are standing by a horrible, seditious, felonious, truly vicious man no matter what.
We should stand by a deeply good, competent, empathic public servant no matter if he has some debate glitches, but is doing a fine job. Standing by him and his team.
Jeffrey, it wasn’t ‘some debate glitches’: Biden’s been showing physical and mental decline for the past year or so, and Thursday night’s ‘glitches’ were not only sad, but also scary. If Biden cannot make it through a 90-minute debate without a teleprompter and a friendly audience, how can he keep up in the pressurized campaign sprint? There’s so much talent in the D pool, and many are still too spooked of the completely f’g-up 1968 convention. Really? C’mon, Ds, get aggressive, bold, in your face. Rs, although completely loony and mendacious, do it every day and 2x on Sunday.
Hi Joe Biden supporters! A note that we should all be donating whatever we can to Joe and Kamala by June 30th, they will be reporting out campaign contributions and it's important. You know the MAGAs are donating like crazy because they just LOVE their convicted felon.
Bill and Andy, I love you, but you all at the Bulwark need to take this wreck of an article down. You know what's notably missing from this article? WHO should replace Joe and what their path to win would be. Joe is the incumbent with a great record, he has incredible ties to the unions, he has a great and long history with the African American community. he has beaten Trump before. He's already hosted a killer event in NC since the debate. Whitmer, Newsom, and Shapiro have not been tested on the national stage. Sorry, but Harris wouldn't win. Maybe that's why the DNC has Biden as the candidate -- he has the best chance of WINNING. Maybe you could spend more digital ink talking about Joe's great record and what we all can be doing to support him? And on Trump's abysmal lying throughout the debate? This LEAD article is completely unhelpful to the cause.
He's also scaring the Orange Snake. BTW, the political cartoons from the MAGAs are still very muted, as are most of the MAGA comments. And they're pushing the replace Biden meme, which leads me to think they're afraid of Biden.
I hope you have really, really, really thought about this.
1. Be prepared to have every word you wrote/said to be scrutinized/faked/manipulated by Rs
2. Be prepared to have everything bad that had happened during your political or business life be scrutinized/faked/manipulated by Rs, and used as a reason to impeach you.
3. Be prepared to have every adult child followed, their bank and business records subpoenaed and put on trial in Congress by MTG, Jim Jordan, etc.
4. Be prepared to have every gift you've ever given, every trip you've ever taken to be a considered a bribe, a phony business deal, etc. and a reason to impeach you and imprison the recipients of said gifts.
5. Be prepared to have your children, grandchildren spied upon, their personal phones/computers/diaries stolen and used against you.
6. Be prepared to be labeled a demon, an enemy of the state, a pedo, a child killer, and everything vile under the sun.
7. Be prepared for anything and everything that could possibly destroy your life, your family's lives and your friends - heck, everyone you ever knew or talked to.
8. And BTW, this will be done not only by your enemies, but those who purport to care about your health and well being.
9. Make certain that you will never, ever, fall off a bike, trip over a word, make a mistake that millions of us make daily, catch a cold, admit you're tired from jet lag, break your ankle.
10. And lastly, you MUST with every word you say, every action you do, must be PERFECT so you can overpower your enemies with the Sword of Justice and the Cloak of Invincibility with your mind.
All of the above, if you decide to accept it, will happen as it is currently happening to Joseph R Biden.
As the wags say, “Politics ain’t beanbag”. If you want to climb to the top, you have to be willing to take a lot of abuse, backbiting, jealousy, name-calling, lies about your record, and more. Are you saying, Eva, that younger, more vibrant candidates should be very very afraid of big, bad Trump, and cower in fear?
They're already afraid of the violence, the abuse, the impeachment threats, etc., etc., etc. And they're in the Republican party. If they weren't, they would have kicked the lying felon "OLD MAN" who really is incoherent to the curb. They didn't. Instead, they wear red ties and show up at his felony trial. But, it seems, a good many people here are terrified of anyone making a mistake or taking a fall, and now thinking of abandoning the only one who has beaten the Orange Snake.
Love this, thank you. Tired of all the hand wringing. Joe is not just a good but a GREAT candidate, we need to realign behind him. P.s. we should all be donating by June 30, they'll be reporting campaign earnings and it's important. You know the MAGAs, they've been donating like crazy. They love their convicted felon!
Just saw a headline in passing that Biden raised something like $14million after the debate. Also starting to see comments on other sites that Biden got stronger as the debate went on, so if you only saw the end, it would be clear Biden won.
In a world driven by optics - this was a disaster.
I can stipulate all the reasons we should stick with Biden, they are all valid and true and loyal and wholesome.
And yet- my fear, like Bill and many others at the Bulwark, is how this debate performance will impact the slim margins we were already falling behind with.
My suspicion is that this will further sink a stalling campaign.
I don't want it to. I wish America could deal with nuance and logic, but it doesn't.
Amen, Steve. People know what they say, and they saw a feeble, halting, slack-jawed Biden. I’m sure all of us has has relatives or friends who suddenly age 10 years in 1. I doubt, and this is just a guess, that no one wants to see another event like the debate, or any other instances of Joe Biden looking confused and, let’s name it, in mental decline.
Andrew… the reason why people say who Harris isn’t because of what you mentioned… she’s not unpopular because of poor Rhetorical skills… it’s because she has either chosen or been coached to be wooden as possible as to not offend white American voters… especially lots of men who don’t care for smart and tough women… women of color who act this way are called. Uppity… this is uncomfortable for white peoples to say and admit but we have hundreds of years in this country that shows it’s the case… the entire notion of doing a pivot on a campaign 4 months from voting is just crazy and spreadsheet type stuff… only people who have spent their entire lives in politics, who can see eliminating say social security or Medicare as a number on a spreadsheet are the only people who can’t see how regular voters would be harmed by such a move. To think you would have an open primary type thing at the convention and then everyone would pull up their big boy/girl pants and get on board with some nominee is just fantasy stuff… you would be asking all the potential candidates and their supporters to then have the voting habits of…. Black folks who have held their noses and voted for people they didn’t like and or knew didn’t give a rip about them and their situations for all but 2 or 3 cycles… I know black folks could do it… I’m skeptical that other groups could…
I am too. I was thinking about this a little while ago. It would only be one of the two states who know the candidate. Do the swing voters know the other plus WI? I think a candidate from the Midwest, a governor, has a very good chance of winning all three. And throw in Gov Pritzker in IL, next door to both WI & MI.
"Staying home" is the unfortunate story of American democracy, at least in last 100 years. 60-65% turnout should be considered shameful, it's not a democracy. As long as POTUS are elected by less than 1/3 of the eligible voters, all the debate and complaining is just whistling in the wind. It's minority government, and all you're going to get. Maybe what an apathetic citizenry deserves. Great book everyone who cares should read: "White Poverty" by William Barber (has all the numbers and a core reason behind "minority rule."
My biggest fear is that democrats will stay home. Biden has many accomplishments and is a consequential president, but Trump and his cult are loud and they are liars. They not only have the constant lies that Trump tells, but they have Fox, OAN, Newsmax, the War Room, etc. what do we have that spreads the truth regarding the Biden democratic record? Biden’s handlers need to be fired because we are not going to win unless we have another candidate!
My main concern regarding Biden actually is not whether he is up to governing for the next four years. The accomplishments of last three years, with only a few exceptions (Afghanistan withdrawal), have provided ample evidence that he has a team that is capable of shepherding him and us through another term with better than average results. My big worry is that Biden the candidate is not capable of beating Trump. Those who say otherwise are ignoring the the polls, including those in the all important swing states where he is losing by a lot. The very fact that the race is so close when one of the candidates is a criminal sociopath - a twice impeached convicted felon - is disputing the claim that Joe Biden is the best candidate to take on Trump. Sure it's risky to change horses in mid-stream, but weigh that against the risk that is staring us in the face - Biden is currently losing to Trump, the numbers have not moved much in months, and we are running out time.
If you read the transcript, it might change a lot of minds about how Biden did, and it surely highlights how crazy, disjointed and bizarre TFG was.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/read-biden-trump-debate-rush-transcript/index.html
No one who isn’t already voting Biden is reading the transcript.
Ok, don’t. Just assume the worst and create more chaos.
The ‘Hinge of Fate’ Redux
I joined the Bulwark in response to a wonderful article by Cathy Young/Charlie Sikes entitled, ‘The Hinge of Fate’ published shortly after the’22 Russian invasion of Ukraine. It seems we are at a similar moment now where the future of the free world hangs very much in the balance. We all know what we saw in Thursday’s debate and Bob Woodward is very much on mark in saying we MUST learn the ‘How and Why’ of this immediately to plan next steps. We have all seen the effects on family members aging and this experience that many of us have had over decades should point us towards some very specific questions. I am not a doctor and will only relate experiences of my mother’s illness as it relates to these questions.
As my mother’s cognition failed, we sought every kind of test and she was found negative for Altheimers and many other specific dementias. In the end a number off doctors explained to us that her diminishment was more likely the result of many small events that they called ‘micro-strokes ‘.They said that the vascular problems that run in our family especially a tendency towards aneurism could cause tiny pieces of arterial plaque to float free and become lodged in the very smallest blood vessels in the brain causing a number of tiny almost imperceptible stroke like events. These are individually almost impossible to diagnose but their effect is cumulative. Over time, as my mother lost recognition of me as anyone other than the nice young man who brought her milkshakes, everyone in our family accepted this explanation. It fit every aspect of the progression of her disease.
I recount our experience not as uninformed amateur diagnoses for the President but to point us towards questions that need be comprehensively answered immediately. These are in nature utterly different than the general findings of even the most thorough standard physical medical examination. The President needs to undergo all five major types of brain scan repeatably of a period of several weeks. The most important of these would be the CT Angiography which would show any variation in circulation within the brain over time. The question that needs to be answered is not whether the President is a healthy 81 year old, but rather are there any detectable accumulating changes in brain circulation over time in the brain or other anomaly that could suggest changes in cognition. These questions are made all the more urgent by the fact that the President suffered a life-threatening aneurism decades ago and should be counted as member of a high-risk group in this regard
.
The answer to these questions would go some way towards answering at least the ‘How’ that Bob Woodward posits and point to a prognosis for the President. Anything less would indicate only further gaslighting from members of this administration.
If Democrats were given to conspiracy theories, there would be rumour flying that a Republican dirty tricks operative somehow managed to drug Biden's food or drink in Atlanta.
The delusional “read the transcript” and “Trump actually lost” rationalizations are no better
I really enjoy reading the bulwark. On this point about biden dropping out you are falling short. Game plan the rest of it out. What happens between when he drops out and election day. Look around all the corners and tell us what you see. Will it be summer 1968 all over again? Or will the cats be herded in time to save us from dictatorship? Can democrats take the house and senate thereby providing a bulwark against trump and the maga scotus? There has to be more than just drop out.
Hey, Tim, what happens between when he releases his delegates and the convention? A number of candidates throw their hats in the ring, start making speeches, tour the country to meet voters/press the flesh. We have to stop being so spooked 50+ years later about what happened in Chicago. The D party stalwarts need to stop coddling Biden, and shoveling sand before our eyes. We know what we saw, and it’s unacceptable on so many levels. If the top of the ticket drags the down ballot races, then we are totally screwed. It’s time for Ds to hike up their pants, and behave like the adults they’ve shown themselves to be in 2018, 2020 and 2022.
That is the other question. How does releasing delegates work? Do they go back into the pool for a clean do over or does he throw his delegates behind a candidate which would surely make that candidate the nominee? How can the money he has raised to date be used for another candidate? I only used 1968 as an example wondering when in history an open convention for one party has resulted in a successful election. Maybe it will be. Maybe all the worry is all in the before times like when being a felon was disqualifying. Maybe the spectacle of an open convention will be the key to defeating the spectacle of a criminal opponent. Maybe is why I hoped the bulwark writers who have experience and insight into these things would go several steps beyond biden must step down.
My initial reaction to the debate was absolute shock and extreme disappointment. We expected and needed Biden to rise to the occasion and he just didn't. But I've calmed down now. He's the D's candidate and if he chooses not to step down we are riding that horse across the finish line. And if he doesn't make the next 4 years, that would be sad but OK. None of us is guaranteed to be here in four years. If I get pushback from Republicans my stance is going to be "I'd rather support a good man who has some bad days than a bad man who has no good days."
Don’t calm down. Don’t rationalize. Don’t “pray he gets better at campaigning”. Your first response was right.
The GOP are standing by a horrible, seditious, felonious, truly vicious man no matter what.
We should stand by a deeply good, competent, empathic public servant no matter if he has some debate glitches, but is doing a fine job. Standing by him and his team.
Jeffrey, it wasn’t ‘some debate glitches’: Biden’s been showing physical and mental decline for the past year or so, and Thursday night’s ‘glitches’ were not only sad, but also scary. If Biden cannot make it through a 90-minute debate without a teleprompter and a friendly audience, how can he keep up in the pressurized campaign sprint? There’s so much talent in the D pool, and many are still too spooked of the completely f’g-up 1968 convention. Really? C’mon, Ds, get aggressive, bold, in your face. Rs, although completely loony and mendacious, do it every day and 2x on Sunday.
Btw really brave of Tim to disable the comments on his article.
Biden talk less and carry a big stick. My only advice...
Hi Joe Biden supporters! A note that we should all be donating whatever we can to Joe and Kamala by June 30th, they will be reporting out campaign contributions and it's important. You know the MAGAs are donating like crazy because they just LOVE their convicted felon.
Bill and Andy, I love you, but you all at the Bulwark need to take this wreck of an article down. You know what's notably missing from this article? WHO should replace Joe and what their path to win would be. Joe is the incumbent with a great record, he has incredible ties to the unions, he has a great and long history with the African American community. he has beaten Trump before. He's already hosted a killer event in NC since the debate. Whitmer, Newsom, and Shapiro have not been tested on the national stage. Sorry, but Harris wouldn't win. Maybe that's why the DNC has Biden as the candidate -- he has the best chance of WINNING. Maybe you could spend more digital ink talking about Joe's great record and what we all can be doing to support him? And on Trump's abysmal lying throughout the debate? This LEAD article is completely unhelpful to the cause.
He's also scaring the Orange Snake. BTW, the political cartoons from the MAGAs are still very muted, as are most of the MAGA comments. And they're pushing the replace Biden meme, which leads me to think they're afraid of Biden.
Dear Candidate to replace Biden:
I hope you have really, really, really thought about this.
1. Be prepared to have every word you wrote/said to be scrutinized/faked/manipulated by Rs
2. Be prepared to have everything bad that had happened during your political or business life be scrutinized/faked/manipulated by Rs, and used as a reason to impeach you.
3. Be prepared to have every adult child followed, their bank and business records subpoenaed and put on trial in Congress by MTG, Jim Jordan, etc.
4. Be prepared to have every gift you've ever given, every trip you've ever taken to be a considered a bribe, a phony business deal, etc. and a reason to impeach you and imprison the recipients of said gifts.
5. Be prepared to have your children, grandchildren spied upon, their personal phones/computers/diaries stolen and used against you.
6. Be prepared to be labeled a demon, an enemy of the state, a pedo, a child killer, and everything vile under the sun.
7. Be prepared for anything and everything that could possibly destroy your life, your family's lives and your friends - heck, everyone you ever knew or talked to.
8. And BTW, this will be done not only by your enemies, but those who purport to care about your health and well being.
9. Make certain that you will never, ever, fall off a bike, trip over a word, make a mistake that millions of us make daily, catch a cold, admit you're tired from jet lag, break your ankle.
10. And lastly, you MUST with every word you say, every action you do, must be PERFECT so you can overpower your enemies with the Sword of Justice and the Cloak of Invincibility with your mind.
All of the above, if you decide to accept it, will happen as it is currently happening to Joseph R Biden.
As the wags say, “Politics ain’t beanbag”. If you want to climb to the top, you have to be willing to take a lot of abuse, backbiting, jealousy, name-calling, lies about your record, and more. Are you saying, Eva, that younger, more vibrant candidates should be very very afraid of big, bad Trump, and cower in fear?
They're already afraid of the violence, the abuse, the impeachment threats, etc., etc., etc. And they're in the Republican party. If they weren't, they would have kicked the lying felon "OLD MAN" who really is incoherent to the curb. They didn't. Instead, they wear red ties and show up at his felony trial. But, it seems, a good many people here are terrified of anyone making a mistake or taking a fall, and now thinking of abandoning the only one who has beaten the Orange Snake.
Love this, thank you. Tired of all the hand wringing. Joe is not just a good but a GREAT candidate, we need to realign behind him. P.s. we should all be donating by June 30, they'll be reporting campaign earnings and it's important. You know the MAGAs, they've been donating like crazy. They love their convicted felon!
A corpse is not a good candidate or a great candidate, as a prayer isn’t a good or great campaign strategy.
Just saw a headline in passing that Biden raised something like $14million after the debate. Also starting to see comments on other sites that Biden got stronger as the debate went on, so if you only saw the end, it would be clear Biden won.
Wish I could like this more than once!
:-) Thanks!
In a world driven by optics - this was a disaster.
I can stipulate all the reasons we should stick with Biden, they are all valid and true and loyal and wholesome.
And yet- my fear, like Bill and many others at the Bulwark, is how this debate performance will impact the slim margins we were already falling behind with.
My suspicion is that this will further sink a stalling campaign.
I don't want it to. I wish America could deal with nuance and logic, but it doesn't.
Amen, Steve. People know what they say, and they saw a feeble, halting, slack-jawed Biden. I’m sure all of us has has relatives or friends who suddenly age 10 years in 1. I doubt, and this is just a guess, that no one wants to see another event like the debate, or any other instances of Joe Biden looking confused and, let’s name it, in mental decline.
Andrew… the reason why people say who Harris isn’t because of what you mentioned… she’s not unpopular because of poor Rhetorical skills… it’s because she has either chosen or been coached to be wooden as possible as to not offend white American voters… especially lots of men who don’t care for smart and tough women… women of color who act this way are called. Uppity… this is uncomfortable for white peoples to say and admit but we have hundreds of years in this country that shows it’s the case… the entire notion of doing a pivot on a campaign 4 months from voting is just crazy and spreadsheet type stuff… only people who have spent their entire lives in politics, who can see eliminating say social security or Medicare as a number on a spreadsheet are the only people who can’t see how regular voters would be harmed by such a move. To think you would have an open primary type thing at the convention and then everyone would pull up their big boy/girl pants and get on board with some nominee is just fantasy stuff… you would be asking all the potential candidates and their supporters to then have the voting habits of…. Black folks who have held their noses and voted for people they didn’t like and or knew didn’t give a rip about them and their situations for all but 2 or 3 cycles… I know black folks could do it… I’m skeptical that other groups could…
I’m with Sarah, Gretchen and Josh!! Two swing states…BAM!!
I am too. I was thinking about this a little while ago. It would only be one of the two states who know the candidate. Do the swing voters know the other plus WI? I think a candidate from the Midwest, a governor, has a very good chance of winning all three. And throw in Gov Pritzker in IL, next door to both WI & MI.