I reframe democracy issue. trump did take your control of your vote. he took your control on what kind of health care system you work what kind of schools you want. he think he your master the master are the american people that he endangers by trying to steal elections.
The image that always comes to my mind when I think of MAGA is a mob carrying pitchforks and lit torches, with ugly, distorted faces. Scary as hell. There is nothing clownish about it. It is the same zealotry that lead to gleeful torture during the Spanish Inquisition, burning women at the stake, and other historical spasms of extreme violence. Until this pent-up anger and rage blows itself out, it will be difficult times ahead. Hope for the best and plan for the worst.
Jeff Sharlet is an amazing guest. His grasp and explanation of Trumpism is so insightful. The man nailed what the bottom line is far MAGA - they like the hitting.
On JD's military service, it should be noted that this dude was an air wing POG, not a frontline Marine. In fact, I'd be surprised if he ever left the wire more than once or twice during his single deployment. He's about a year older than me and we both deployed to Iraq within the same service branch at about the same time (late '05/early '06), but this dude was at "camp cupcake" at Al Asad air base while I was sleeping on the floors of abandoned school buildings at makeshift infantry outposts. So if you ever see his Marine record touted about, just remember this dude did *not* have it hard out there. He was shitting out DFAC chow and getting warm showers, not getting by on 2 MREs a day and shitting into wag bags. He also managed to only get one deployment out of a whole 4-year contract. I--and many many others--caught x3 deployments during our 4-year contracts during the same time period. That dude skated during service.
maybe we need a Kerry-style "swift boat" reality check here, veterans for truth
ah, but who am I kidding, those were different times...hard to imagine someone suffering at all with voters for implied exaggeration, when there is so much flat-out lying that is accepted
Great interview w Jeff; I thought his assessment of the problem now being 'bottom up' rings particularly true (e.g. the anecdotes about local sheriffs seeing themselves as somehow outside of federal law; or the more radical views found on local school boards)
One thought occurred about better communicating the danger Trump poses, in particular to the independent/undecided voter -- and this is around how we describe Trump.
I think everyone recognizes calling him a Hitler equivalent is counterproductive (we lose credibility with moderate voter with an extreme comparison like this).
But I think there is the same counterproductive effect when we call him a fascist (or a 'soft fascist' as Tim was saying); not because it's not true, but because I think the average person who is not particularly educated doesn't understand how fascism is defined; if anything, for some (most?) there is probably an equivalence in their head between fascism = Nazism, and again you run into this loss of credibility/eye rolling from the people you are trying to persuade.
Even "authoritarian" is a bit of a tough sell to the average 'low information' voter (although it is better imo).
I don't think there is an easy answer here, but we need a shorthand way of describing the danger Trump poses, which balances risk of *appearing* to exaggerate (via associations voters have with certain words/phrases), vs the serious danger Trump poses, not just narrowly to the democratic process, but to the broader system of 3 independent branches of government.
Interesting analysis of JD Vance, the guy who gets to hit whoever he is incentivized to hit. I always judged him by his face. Pre beard it was soft, a little pudgy, and child like. I could see a boy who was bullied in school. He had that victim look. So when I read the book I saw him striking back at the people who laughed at him and teased him about his mom or grandmother. He's still doing it and he has been well rewarded for it.
I really enjoy listening to Jeff, but I did not finish his book. It was really angry compared to this even keeled guy I hear on podcasts. I even went back to figure out if it was the same guy that I stopped reading his book. Yup lol
I love whenever Jeff Sharlet comes on, great convo as always. To use Jeff's "boiling" metaphor but with a different comparison, we're in season 1 of House of the Dragon where the blood starts spilling but we haven't gotten to the full blown Targaryen civil war yet.
Thank you, Jeff, for the primer on antisemitic buzzwords.
I’m so exhausted with claims that we scream “antisemitism” whenever somebody criticizes Israel.
Bannon terrifies me.
BTW, “rode hard and put away wet” is a perfectly OK country/horse term. It’s not sexual, but applying it to a person is not nice because it means that person looks worn out.
It’s the same with “pumping a dry hole.” I watched Threads melt down over a post using the expression to mean pursuing a pointless path.
I hate to lose either expression because they’re so on point and evocative, but word policing from the Lefty Left means we will, I fear.
People don't read anymore; they've never seen a horse or a water or oil well pump in their lives, and they don't seem to talk with old people. The result is they do not understand common metaphors like the ones you identify and assume there is a sexual connotation at work. My grandma would have said "get your mind out of the gutter." I must note, however, that rode hard and put away wet is usually said in reference to a woman in reference to her physical appearance. That's not nice either.
I should have said that, because you’re right. It’s generally about a woman looking what my great-grandmother would have called “wore out.” People said it about Hillary all the time because of sexism.
Thank you Jeff for “Trump is a Drama Queen” comment. I would love to see that repeated. The rest of the segment scared me though. Uggh. I feel like I’m coming down with Mono.
I reframe democracy issue. trump did take your control of your vote. he took your control on what kind of health care system you work what kind of schools you want. he think he your master the master are the american people that he endangers by trying to steal elections.
trump want to cut social security and medicare may 2017.my source Washington post may 2017.
The image that always comes to my mind when I think of MAGA is a mob carrying pitchforks and lit torches, with ugly, distorted faces. Scary as hell. There is nothing clownish about it. It is the same zealotry that lead to gleeful torture during the Spanish Inquisition, burning women at the stake, and other historical spasms of extreme violence. Until this pent-up anger and rage blows itself out, it will be difficult times ahead. Hope for the best and plan for the worst.
Jeff Sharlet is an amazing guest. His grasp and explanation of Trumpism is so insightful. The man nailed what the bottom line is far MAGA - they like the hitting.
Jeff was great guest. Appreciate the point that November is not the end or start if journey but a milestone.
“The pleasure of hating.” I think this is one of the most succinct explanations of Trumpism.
Jeff Sharlet is such a gem, thanks for having him on to cut through the noise and provide his insight!
On JD's military service, it should be noted that this dude was an air wing POG, not a frontline Marine. In fact, I'd be surprised if he ever left the wire more than once or twice during his single deployment. He's about a year older than me and we both deployed to Iraq within the same service branch at about the same time (late '05/early '06), but this dude was at "camp cupcake" at Al Asad air base while I was sleeping on the floors of abandoned school buildings at makeshift infantry outposts. So if you ever see his Marine record touted about, just remember this dude did *not* have it hard out there. He was shitting out DFAC chow and getting warm showers, not getting by on 2 MREs a day and shitting into wag bags. He also managed to only get one deployment out of a whole 4-year contract. I--and many many others--caught x3 deployments during our 4-year contracts during the same time period. That dude skated during service.
maybe we need a Kerry-style "swift boat" reality check here, veterans for truth
ah, but who am I kidding, those were different times...hard to imagine someone suffering at all with voters for implied exaggeration, when there is so much flat-out lying that is accepted
Great interview w Jeff; I thought his assessment of the problem now being 'bottom up' rings particularly true (e.g. the anecdotes about local sheriffs seeing themselves as somehow outside of federal law; or the more radical views found on local school boards)
One thought occurred about better communicating the danger Trump poses, in particular to the independent/undecided voter -- and this is around how we describe Trump.
I think everyone recognizes calling him a Hitler equivalent is counterproductive (we lose credibility with moderate voter with an extreme comparison like this).
But I think there is the same counterproductive effect when we call him a fascist (or a 'soft fascist' as Tim was saying); not because it's not true, but because I think the average person who is not particularly educated doesn't understand how fascism is defined; if anything, for some (most?) there is probably an equivalence in their head between fascism = Nazism, and again you run into this loss of credibility/eye rolling from the people you are trying to persuade.
Even "authoritarian" is a bit of a tough sell to the average 'low information' voter (although it is better imo).
I don't think there is an easy answer here, but we need a shorthand way of describing the danger Trump poses, which balances risk of *appearing* to exaggerate (via associations voters have with certain words/phrases), vs the serious danger Trump poses, not just narrowly to the democratic process, but to the broader system of 3 independent branches of government.
Interesting analysis of JD Vance, the guy who gets to hit whoever he is incentivized to hit. I always judged him by his face. Pre beard it was soft, a little pudgy, and child like. I could see a boy who was bullied in school. He had that victim look. So when I read the book I saw him striking back at the people who laughed at him and teased him about his mom or grandmother. He's still doing it and he has been well rewarded for it.
Yeah, I resonated with that insight as well.
JD projects his own rage and inferiority complexes in his every public statement.
Grow up feeling less-than/deprived? Rail against the elites, even after you’ve become one of them. Promote policies to make deprivation the norm.
Come from a broken home? Rail against no fault divorce.
I really enjoy listening to Jeff, but I did not finish his book. It was really angry compared to this even keeled guy I hear on podcasts. I even went back to figure out if it was the same guy that I stopped reading his book. Yup lol
I love whenever Jeff Sharlet comes on, great convo as always. To use Jeff's "boiling" metaphor but with a different comparison, we're in season 1 of House of the Dragon where the blood starts spilling but we haven't gotten to the full blown Targaryen civil war yet.
Thank you, Jeff, for the primer on antisemitic buzzwords.
I’m so exhausted with claims that we scream “antisemitism” whenever somebody criticizes Israel.
Bannon terrifies me.
BTW, “rode hard and put away wet” is a perfectly OK country/horse term. It’s not sexual, but applying it to a person is not nice because it means that person looks worn out.
It’s the same with “pumping a dry hole.” I watched Threads melt down over a post using the expression to mean pursuing a pointless path.
I hate to lose either expression because they’re so on point and evocative, but word policing from the Lefty Left means we will, I fear.
Yeah, hard agree on the rode-hard-put-up-wet comment. It’s a thing in OK and a good way to kill a horse. (Dry hole—same.)
People don't read anymore; they've never seen a horse or a water or oil well pump in their lives, and they don't seem to talk with old people. The result is they do not understand common metaphors like the ones you identify and assume there is a sexual connotation at work. My grandma would have said "get your mind out of the gutter." I must note, however, that rode hard and put away wet is usually said in reference to a woman in reference to her physical appearance. That's not nice either.
Totally agree that these are metaphors from a certain time, and we are losing them…
I should have said that, because you’re right. It’s generally about a woman looking what my great-grandmother would have called “wore out.” People said it about Hillary all the time because of sexism.
Yes, grew up hearing these terms in the same context in small town Texas in the 60’s-70’s.
Good interview with Jeff. He presents a good view into the appeal of MAGA. His insights along with Chris Arnade are invaluable.
Thank you Jeff for “Trump is a Drama Queen” comment. I would love to see that repeated. The rest of the segment scared me though. Uggh. I feel like I’m coming down with Mono.