Regardless of the rape charge, TFG HAS been found guilty of lying in public about a woman whom he assaulted. Not that anyone ever should have doubted that TFG is a scoff-law liar, but here we have a jury, selected by both sides, including his (late) current mouth-piece, pronouncing it for all and sundry to hear and know. This is NOT just the lying press or the damned Democrats. These are impartial, fair, unbiased citizens making a legal judgement, convinced, not beyond a reasonable doubt, enough for a conviction and financial penalty to the defamed.
Sexual battery and defamation were the torts that were in front of the jury, and they found him liable on both. There were no questions put to them where they didnтАЩt think he did it.
My understanding was that she accused him of rape, as well, which the jury did not find him liable for. Axios' reporting appears to bear that out (https://www.axios.com/2023/05/09/trump-verdict-e-jean-carroll-lawsuit-damages): "The jury found that Trump did sexually abuse Carroll but did not determine that he raped her."
That is a very poorly written bullet point in a larger summary. There is no such thing as тАЬrapeтАЭ in a civil tort. He was being sued for sexual battery/abuse and defamation, and the jury found for the plaintiff on both counts. Saying a civil jury didnтАЩt find that he raped her is roughly as disingenuous as saying OJ SimpsonтАЩs civil jury didnтАЩt find that he murdered Nicole and Ron. This jury finding that Trump sexually battered her is the same equivalent as that one finding that OJ wrongfully caused their deaths.
I'm not trying to be argumentative; I simply want to be accurate. On Twitter, Adam Klasfeld (of LawandCrime.com) has a photo of the jury's verdict form. It reads, in part: "Did Ms. Carroll prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, that 1. Mr. Trump raped Ms. Carroll?" and the line beside "No" is checked.
Addendum: ok, now I get what happened. The judge gave the jury the option to find him liable for any of three levels of sexual assault -- rape, sexual battery, or forcible touching from most to least severe. So that they decided he wasnтАЩt liable for rape wasnтАЩt a declaration of innocence, they just went for the middle severity of the three. ThatтАЩs why the тАЬforcible touchingтАЭ mark is blank, they were going down the list in severity until they got to тАЬyes,тАЭ and rape required them to believe it was more likely than not he forcibly penetrated her with (cringe... ahem) le champignon orange, and they just werenтАЩt willing to go that far.
NPR is reporting the same thing, actually. I stand corrected. He was found liable for sexual battery but not rape. I will back down to a statement that IтАЩm not sure how, based on her testimony, they concluded one and not the other, but that is indeed what they found, and thatтАЩs kinda bad reporting on the rest of the mediaтАЩs part for glossing that over.
OT: In E. Jean Carroll's civil case against TFG, he's been found liable for all charges EXCEPT rape. She's been awarded ~$5 million.
Regardless of the rape charge, TFG HAS been found guilty of lying in public about a woman whom he assaulted. Not that anyone ever should have doubted that TFG is a scoff-law liar, but here we have a jury, selected by both sides, including his (late) current mouth-piece, pronouncing it for all and sundry to hear and know. This is NOT just the lying press or the damned Democrats. These are impartial, fair, unbiased citizens making a legal judgement, convinced, not beyond a reasonable doubt, enough for a conviction and financial penalty to the defamed.
Sexual battery and defamation were the torts that were in front of the jury, and they found him liable on both. There were no questions put to them where they didnтАЩt think he did it.
My understanding was that she accused him of rape, as well, which the jury did not find him liable for. Axios' reporting appears to bear that out (https://www.axios.com/2023/05/09/trump-verdict-e-jean-carroll-lawsuit-damages): "The jury found that Trump did sexually abuse Carroll but did not determine that he raped her."
That is a very poorly written bullet point in a larger summary. There is no such thing as тАЬrapeтАЭ in a civil tort. He was being sued for sexual battery/abuse and defamation, and the jury found for the plaintiff on both counts. Saying a civil jury didnтАЩt find that he raped her is roughly as disingenuous as saying OJ SimpsonтАЩs civil jury didnтАЩt find that he murdered Nicole and Ron. This jury finding that Trump sexually battered her is the same equivalent as that one finding that OJ wrongfully caused their deaths.
I'm not trying to be argumentative; I simply want to be accurate. On Twitter, Adam Klasfeld (of LawandCrime.com) has a photo of the jury's verdict form. It reads, in part: "Did Ms. Carroll prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, that 1. Mr. Trump raped Ms. Carroll?" and the line beside "No" is checked.
I know some here don't like Twitter as a source, but it's the only one I could find, and Mr. Klasfeld is a reputable journalist. The document can be viewed at: https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1656037991066812440/photo/1
Addendum: ok, now I get what happened. The judge gave the jury the option to find him liable for any of three levels of sexual assault -- rape, sexual battery, or forcible touching from most to least severe. So that they decided he wasnтАЩt liable for rape wasnтАЩt a declaration of innocence, they just went for the middle severity of the three. ThatтАЩs why the тАЬforcible touchingтАЭ mark is blank, they were going down the list in severity until they got to тАЬyes,тАЭ and rape required them to believe it was more likely than not he forcibly penetrated her with (cringe... ahem) le champignon orange, and they just werenтАЩt willing to go that far.
Yeah, that's what I read. Glad you got to the bottom of it; I wasn't comfortable getting into it in that detail.
The explanation I received was that as she didnтАЩt actually view his penile insertion the rape charge was denied and sexual abuse accepted.
NPR is reporting the same thing, actually. I stand corrected. He was found liable for sexual battery but not rape. I will back down to a statement that IтАЩm not sure how, based on her testimony, they concluded one and not the other, but that is indeed what they found, and thatтАЩs kinda bad reporting on the rest of the mediaтАЩs part for glossing that over.