Joe Perticone, congratulations on writing one of the very best pieces of “you are there” reportage I have read this year. You have explained the Kennedy phenomenon to me better than anyone else has.
The common denominator between Trump's and Kennedy's crowd— they are both terrified by a world that seems/is out of control.
They are both terrified by a world that they do not understand because they are constantly looking backward. The difference between Old Convicted Felon and RFK, Jr.' "vision" is how far in the past they look. RFK, Jr. wants the "glorious 60s" while OCF wants to go 100 years further than that, back when men were men, women knew their place, in the kitchen, pregnant and making dinner, and there was no talk about "equal rights" for anyone who "did not belong".
Perticone continues to impress. The Bulwark was smart as hell to snatch him up. There’s not a bad writer or a bullshit thinker at this joint, but I agree with you that this piece is FIRE!
Kathleen we keep crossing paths today! I totally agree with your sentiment on this article. I remember as a little girl staying up with my mother to watch Jaqueline Kennedy host a televised tour of the White House. It was grand! I’d seen the White House many times since my grandparents lived in D.C. but I’d never been inside. That’s the time the Kennedy family was our royalty. The family history is truly sketchy for sure, but the image Jack and Jaqueline created was like watching a fairytale. Because that’s exactly what it was. RFK jr is deeply involved in that fantasy and between him and Trump’s fantasy of raping and pillaging the peasants, supported by the like of Phil McGraw and delusional “Blue MAGA” liberals is not a viable option for voters.
Yep, Jack and Jackie sure did look good. Many have stressed that JFK was the first president of the TV era, when it became extremely important to look well on the tube. Pretty people like Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and movie star Ronald Reagan have had a definite advantage over ugly people like LBJ and Nixon.
He lost his uncle and his father to violence. I'm sure that effects person. But I'm sorry that because of his name, family connections and money he can insert himself in politics inspite of his being inadequate. He offered to campaign with Biden and Harris and they turned him down. I don't know what price he was asking. But then going to Trump shows a desire to be relevant and absolutely no political convictions.
I appreciate Joe's highlighting of nostalgia as a driving factor of Trump and Kennedy's popularity. And Kathleen - "terrified by a world that seems/is out of control" is just as apt.
Interestingly, when I look back at the Great Recession in the 00s, it was clear that people blamed big business and the government - and this sentiment was the direct cause of the anti-government Tea Party movement. Then came the George Floyd protests and the progressive backlash against Trump - which led to the anti-woke movement. And when you think about it, the anti-woke movement really manifested itself as an anti-modern culture movement.
So - a significant group of Americans, motivated by nostalgia and fear of the modern world, feel betrayed by their governing bodies, rules-based capitalism and their fellow citizens. And then in walks Trump and Kennedy….suddenly the lurch towards authoritarianism on the extreme right and left doesn't seem so surprising.
What to say? If Kennedy thinks his agenda will have any real place in a trump administration, he is even more nuts than he already seems. Trump is going to be very busy signing exec orders for project 2025. There won't be much left of the Health department. Any regulations on food, water, air will be a thing of the past. Kennedy, like most of the American public, doesn't understand that Project 2025 is a real plan, that hundreds of people are working on it as he speaks...recruiting magas to replace Civil Servants, writing administrative orders, etc.... that the Heritage Foundation is not just whistling dixie. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial. They might want to look at how the Federalist Society undermined the supreme court, with the help of trump and mcConnell. They don't talk about what they are gong to do... they just do it. I just wish the American people were smarter than this. I'm just praying that Kamala will win.
Kennedy and Trump are both con men although their styles are different. Each thinks he can use the other to further their own ambitions. Both think they have the relationship under control but in reality, neither does. The difference is that Kennedy will become disillusioned first because he has less to lose.
I had a client “Dr.”Phil’s staff tried to blackmail to get on his show. Fortunately, I was able to remind the staff of legal repercussions if they continued. The man is a creepy shyster.
I agree. But I can't stop thinking about those poor, deluded "blue maga" rfk supporters. It is, I think, an interesting dichotomy to risk your mental & moral health while being desperate enough to hitch your Health for Everyone star to trump. Can you say "disappointed?"
The ridiculous assumption here by RFK’s followers is that Trump will somehow have a use for RFK once the election is over. Trump cares nothing about RFK’s policies. Trump only wants him for his sliver of votes and will cast him to the winds once his usefulness has exhausted itself. And all these RFK acolytes will once more be out in the cold. Where they should be.
Yes. He is a good con man. The amazing thing is that people continue to believe that they will be the one that he treats well. It’s like the woman who believes she can reform the philandering husband. Just look at how many people’ who have served him only to be thrown under the bus when they are no longer useful to him. Look at how he tosses aside Rudy, who’s an idiot and a criminal. But he gave everything to Trump and Trump could give 2 shots about him. So long Rudy. You’re no longer useful to me. He is a psychopath of the highest order.
What's always amazed me is that Trump was born into wealth, hasn't done a hard day's work in his life, grew up in NYC, hasn't shown the slightest interest in helping people less fortunate than he (and indeed has been sued for fraud and nonpayment of debts by those less fortunate folks), wouldn't be caught dead hobnobbing with those without money, and couldn't find Alabama on a map if you painted it red, and yet his supporters somehow view him as on their side. Just another piece of evidence for the con man that is Trump.
Speaking about not caring about people less fortunate than he is, Ivanka has been quoted by one of her acquaintances in college who had recommended that she read a book about the working class as saying "Why should I care about poor people?" That attitude was part of her upbringing.
As Republicans have spent decades hollowing out our public school systems, we are now seeing the results. Voters are frighteningly ignorant about so much. All the stuff I read that seems to malign Democrats for their education pisses me off; while not everyone needs or is suited for college, everyone does need a solid education through high school, and that should include civics.
“Well, I'm trusting that Robert knows that Trump is going to take his advice,” said Donna Bervinchak, a rally attendee. “I'm trusting that Robert is reading him because I don't have that trust [in Trump], but I do trust Robert Kennedy.” Well, Donna, Trump will kick RFK Jr. to the curb when Big Ag fills Trump's pockets with money.
I heard a report on NPR suggesting that exposure to small amounts of peanut butter/peanuts at an early age reduces the chances of allergies in later childhood.
The issue to me is that science is always developing and frequently wrong—case in point is hormones for pre-menopausal women. We follow the science knowing that knowledge isn’t static, and that too is terrifying for the RFK follower types.
Perhaps, and with immunology there are so many factors. I believe the hygiene hypothesis may also be a factor, but RFK is NOT the person to go to with anything health related.
You mean the excessive hygiene which won't let kids play in the dirt? But yeah, RFK Jr is the stopped clock that is occasionally correct, though hardly ever for the reasons he would state.
Choosy mothers were choosing Jif and the federal government was giving away ginormous containers of peanut butter as part of food aid (and price support for southern farmers). Oh, and Tinkerbell was selling Peter Pan to the masses. It took a while for scientists to figure out the cause of much childhood affliction.
To me, it seems both men, Trump and RFK Jr, have serious personality disorders. That could be a bonding factor. One of my husband’s nephews, mid-20’s, sort of incel-y, Libertarian, thinks he’s a lot smarter than he is (actually a pretty nice kid, just very dumb) was planning to vote for RFK Jr. He was one of those people who refused to get the Covid vaccine. A while back we had a family gathering and found out he’d gotten a new puppy and everyone wanted him to come and bring the puppy, but he couldn’t come because the puppy was too young to get its shots yet. I had to laugh. Lucky puppy gets to get his shots!
I want to assure RFK Jr that people had Tourette’s when we were kids because one of our friends had it. My mother, born in 1919, had severe asthma (she was once pronounced dead and brought back to life by an epinephrine shot to the heart a la Pulp Fiction, on the insistence of my father—luckily because I wouldn’t be here if he hadn’t). And let’s not forget small pox and polio!
BTW, last summer the NYT had a good article about the rhetorical misinformation technique used by RFK Jr—including elements of truth and then a lot credible-sounding research that is actually unproven and flawed. It’s on purpose and insidious. He is a self-serving liar.
It never ceases to amaze me that Jr has anything more than 1,000 supporters. Whereas many politicians strive to have something that everybody can like, Jr seems to have something that everybody can detest.
I guess MAGA and JFK Jr followers have two things in common. One is their allegiance to their cult leaders, and the other being their attraction to conspiracy theories. So, if each of their dear leaders tell them the other is okay, their followers will decide that they can find a common thread in each other's conspiracy theories.
Joe, until you wrote about them, I would have "Blue MAGAs" as the typo of a color-blind writer. Hard to say "thanks" for the clarification of that term when one knows what type of wide-eyed follower of the most flippy Kennedy there ever was is who is being IDed. RFK Jr. will just wind up being like all the Republicans in 2016, believing "he" can control/correct the Orangeutan only to learn that is the fastest way to being ignored unless you stop that sort of shenanigans and drink the Kool-Aid.
"His frailties and quirks, the tragedy and oddness, are all proof that modernity can take a toll, and that modern life is not all it is cracked up to be." You nailed the RFK Jr. vibe.
Oh, c'mon. Give "modernity" a break. You can't blame RFK on it. The guy experimented with drugs as a teen, eats unclean food, was raised as a Kennedy to think he was extraordinary, and may just have ordinary health issues.
He was a heroin addict for about 12 years. He’s also an admitted sex addict. He cheated on his wives and one of them died of suicide. He’s an incredibly damaged person.
“So surround yourself with people who know more than you do about things, right? That’s not too hard.”
If you are drumpf, all you have to do is step out on the sidewalk and chose every other person who walks by. It's not hard at all.
As for all those diseases that Jr. never heard of, it just shows how neglected his education was.
Narcolepsy was named in 1880. Tourette Syndrome was named in 1885. ADHD was described in 1902 although under a different name. Autism was named in 1911. The other vague conditions he mentioned like tics and language delay have been noticed since forever. Peanut allergies along with other food allergies have also been known since forever. That Jr. thinks they're something new reflects on him, not on the conditions.
Which is worse---listening to a Tucker Carlson interview or a Dr. Phil interview? The guy is a regressive creep dressed up as a common sense guru. He hawks useless health products just like the rest of those right wing loons.
Check out Josh Barro's brilliant "all the Kennedys suck" Substack today. Although he seems to think that liberals admire the Kennedy "dynasty," it's only a few aging center-left journalists and politicos.
Apropos of RFKJr. saying he'd “never heard of a peanut allergy," I'd never heard of plate tectonics. Or auto-immune disorders. Or calculus. Did those things therefore not exist? That phrase is one of my favorite indicators that the speaker is an idiot (#1 is "It's just common sense"; #2 is "I've always believed" unless followed by "...but I was so wrong").
The less understanding of facts, the more pliable one is. That’s not a sign of strength or something that is admirable. It is a far cry from scientists that change their opinion based on evidence and new discoveries. And for that radiologist, I would joke with my medical colleagues that one who finishes at the bottom of his medical school class is still called Doctor.
Joe Perticone, congratulations on writing one of the very best pieces of “you are there” reportage I have read this year. You have explained the Kennedy phenomenon to me better than anyone else has.
The common denominator between Trump's and Kennedy's crowd— they are both terrified by a world that seems/is out of control.
They are both terrified by a world that they do not understand because they are constantly looking backward. The difference between Old Convicted Felon and RFK, Jr.' "vision" is how far in the past they look. RFK, Jr. wants the "glorious 60s" while OCF wants to go 100 years further than that, back when men were men, women knew their place, in the kitchen, pregnant and making dinner, and there was no talk about "equal rights" for anyone who "did not belong".
Perticone continues to impress. The Bulwark was smart as hell to snatch him up. There’s not a bad writer or a bullshit thinker at this joint, but I agree with you that this piece is FIRE!
Kathleen we keep crossing paths today! I totally agree with your sentiment on this article. I remember as a little girl staying up with my mother to watch Jaqueline Kennedy host a televised tour of the White House. It was grand! I’d seen the White House many times since my grandparents lived in D.C. but I’d never been inside. That’s the time the Kennedy family was our royalty. The family history is truly sketchy for sure, but the image Jack and Jaqueline created was like watching a fairytale. Because that’s exactly what it was. RFK jr is deeply involved in that fantasy and between him and Trump’s fantasy of raping and pillaging the peasants, supported by the like of Phil McGraw and delusional “Blue MAGA” liberals is not a viable option for voters.
Yep, Jack and Jackie sure did look good. Many have stressed that JFK was the first president of the TV era, when it became extremely important to look well on the tube. Pretty people like Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and movie star Ronald Reagan have had a definite advantage over ugly people like LBJ and Nixon.
He lost his uncle and his father to violence. I'm sure that effects person. But I'm sorry that because of his name, family connections and money he can insert himself in politics inspite of his being inadequate. He offered to campaign with Biden and Harris and they turned him down. I don't know what price he was asking. But then going to Trump shows a desire to be relevant and absolutely no political convictions.
I appreciate Joe's highlighting of nostalgia as a driving factor of Trump and Kennedy's popularity. And Kathleen - "terrified by a world that seems/is out of control" is just as apt.
Interestingly, when I look back at the Great Recession in the 00s, it was clear that people blamed big business and the government - and this sentiment was the direct cause of the anti-government Tea Party movement. Then came the George Floyd protests and the progressive backlash against Trump - which led to the anti-woke movement. And when you think about it, the anti-woke movement really manifested itself as an anti-modern culture movement.
So - a significant group of Americans, motivated by nostalgia and fear of the modern world, feel betrayed by their governing bodies, rules-based capitalism and their fellow citizens. And then in walks Trump and Kennedy….suddenly the lurch towards authoritarianism on the extreme right and left doesn't seem so surprising.
What to say? If Kennedy thinks his agenda will have any real place in a trump administration, he is even more nuts than he already seems. Trump is going to be very busy signing exec orders for project 2025. There won't be much left of the Health department. Any regulations on food, water, air will be a thing of the past. Kennedy, like most of the American public, doesn't understand that Project 2025 is a real plan, that hundreds of people are working on it as he speaks...recruiting magas to replace Civil Servants, writing administrative orders, etc.... that the Heritage Foundation is not just whistling dixie. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial. They might want to look at how the Federalist Society undermined the supreme court, with the help of trump and mcConnell. They don't talk about what they are gong to do... they just do it. I just wish the American people were smarter than this. I'm just praying that Kamala will win.
Kennedy and Trump are both con men although their styles are different. Each thinks he can use the other to further their own ambitions. Both think they have the relationship under control but in reality, neither does. The difference is that Kennedy will become disillusioned first because he has less to lose.
Trump thinks his relationship with Putin is under control. Kennedy thinks his relationship with Trump is under control. Both are wrong.
Add Dr. Phil to the list. I bet Oprah is regretting every second she listened to him.
I had a client “Dr.”Phil’s staff tried to blackmail to get on his show. Fortunately, I was able to remind the staff of legal repercussions if they continued. The man is a creepy shyster.
I agree. But I can't stop thinking about those poor, deluded "blue maga" rfk supporters. It is, I think, an interesting dichotomy to risk your mental & moral health while being desperate enough to hitch your Health for Everyone star to trump. Can you say "disappointed?"
It's sad that so many people ignore Project 2025. It's like the novel It Can't Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis.
The ridiculous assumption here by RFK’s followers is that Trump will somehow have a use for RFK once the election is over. Trump cares nothing about RFK’s policies. Trump only wants him for his sliver of votes and will cast him to the winds once his usefulness has exhausted itself. And all these RFK acolytes will once more be out in the cold. Where they should be.
Trump's superpower is his ability to convince people he will reward them, unlike everyone else from whom he has wanted something in the past.
"his ability to convince people he will reward them" - just another way of saying "con man".
Yes. He is a good con man. The amazing thing is that people continue to believe that they will be the one that he treats well. It’s like the woman who believes she can reform the philandering husband. Just look at how many people’ who have served him only to be thrown under the bus when they are no longer useful to him. Look at how he tosses aside Rudy, who’s an idiot and a criminal. But he gave everything to Trump and Trump could give 2 shots about him. So long Rudy. You’re no longer useful to me. He is a psychopath of the highest order.
What's always amazed me is that Trump was born into wealth, hasn't done a hard day's work in his life, grew up in NYC, hasn't shown the slightest interest in helping people less fortunate than he (and indeed has been sued for fraud and nonpayment of debts by those less fortunate folks), wouldn't be caught dead hobnobbing with those without money, and couldn't find Alabama on a map if you painted it red, and yet his supporters somehow view him as on their side. Just another piece of evidence for the con man that is Trump.
Speaking about not caring about people less fortunate than he is, Ivanka has been quoted by one of her acquaintances in college who had recommended that she read a book about the working class as saying "Why should I care about poor people?" That attitude was part of her upbringing.
As Republicans have spent decades hollowing out our public school systems, we are now seeing the results. Voters are frighteningly ignorant about so much. All the stuff I read that seems to malign Democrats for their education pisses me off; while not everyone needs or is suited for college, everyone does need a solid education through high school, and that should include civics.
The Republican plan has been to get rid of civics for decades. Keep the populace ignorant of their power.
Incredible reporting.
“Well, I'm trusting that Robert knows that Trump is going to take his advice,” said Donna Bervinchak, a rally attendee. “I'm trusting that Robert is reading him because I don't have that trust [in Trump], but I do trust Robert Kennedy.” Well, Donna, Trump will kick RFK Jr. to the curb when Big Ag fills Trump's pockets with money.
At root is the belief in magical people rather than institutions.
What an ignorant jackass that man is. He never heard of a peanut allergy when he was a kid because PEOPLE WITH PEANUT ALLERGIES DIED! What a buffoon.
Peanut allergies is maybe the ONE area where RFK is onto somethign. There is actually a legitimate case to be made that fear of peanut allergies increased the incidence of peanut allergies. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/introducing-peanut-infancy-prevents-peanut-allergy-into-adolescence
I heard a report on NPR suggesting that exposure to small amounts of peanut butter/peanuts at an early age reduces the chances of allergies in later childhood.
The issue to me is that science is always developing and frequently wrong—case in point is hormones for pre-menopausal women. We follow the science knowing that knowledge isn’t static, and that too is terrifying for the RFK follower types.
Perhaps, and with immunology there are so many factors. I believe the hygiene hypothesis may also be a factor, but RFK is NOT the person to go to with anything health related.
You mean the excessive hygiene which won't let kids play in the dirt? But yeah, RFK Jr is the stopped clock that is occasionally correct, though hardly ever for the reasons he would state.
Choosy mothers were choosing Jif and the federal government was giving away ginormous containers of peanut butter as part of food aid (and price support for southern farmers). Oh, and Tinkerbell was selling Peter Pan to the masses. It took a while for scientists to figure out the cause of much childhood affliction.
To me, it seems both men, Trump and RFK Jr, have serious personality disorders. That could be a bonding factor. One of my husband’s nephews, mid-20’s, sort of incel-y, Libertarian, thinks he’s a lot smarter than he is (actually a pretty nice kid, just very dumb) was planning to vote for RFK Jr. He was one of those people who refused to get the Covid vaccine. A while back we had a family gathering and found out he’d gotten a new puppy and everyone wanted him to come and bring the puppy, but he couldn’t come because the puppy was too young to get its shots yet. I had to laugh. Lucky puppy gets to get his shots!
I want to assure RFK Jr that people had Tourette’s when we were kids because one of our friends had it. My mother, born in 1919, had severe asthma (she was once pronounced dead and brought back to life by an epinephrine shot to the heart a la Pulp Fiction, on the insistence of my father—luckily because I wouldn’t be here if he hadn’t). And let’s not forget small pox and polio!
BTW, last summer the NYT had a good article about the rhetorical misinformation technique used by RFK Jr—including elements of truth and then a lot credible-sounding research that is actually unproven and flawed. It’s on purpose and insidious. He is a self-serving liar.
We are a nation of imbeciles.
It never ceases to amaze me that Jr has anything more than 1,000 supporters. Whereas many politicians strive to have something that everybody can like, Jr seems to have something that everybody can detest.
I guess MAGA and JFK Jr followers have two things in common. One is their allegiance to their cult leaders, and the other being their attraction to conspiracy theories. So, if each of their dear leaders tell them the other is okay, their followers will decide that they can find a common thread in each other's conspiracy theories.
Joe, until you wrote about them, I would have "Blue MAGAs" as the typo of a color-blind writer. Hard to say "thanks" for the clarification of that term when one knows what type of wide-eyed follower of the most flippy Kennedy there ever was is who is being IDed. RFK Jr. will just wind up being like all the Republicans in 2016, believing "he" can control/correct the Orangeutan only to learn that is the fastest way to being ignored unless you stop that sort of shenanigans and drink the Kool-Aid.
"His frailties and quirks, the tragedy and oddness, are all proof that modernity can take a toll, and that modern life is not all it is cracked up to be." You nailed the RFK Jr. vibe.
Oh, c'mon. Give "modernity" a break. You can't blame RFK on it. The guy experimented with drugs as a teen, eats unclean food, was raised as a Kennedy to think he was extraordinary, and may just have ordinary health issues.
He was a heroin addict for about 12 years. He’s also an admitted sex addict. He cheated on his wives and one of them died of suicide. He’s an incredibly damaged person.
Yes, it must be hard to be the stupid member of a prominent family.
“So surround yourself with people who know more than you do about things, right? That’s not too hard.”
If you are drumpf, all you have to do is step out on the sidewalk and chose every other person who walks by. It's not hard at all.
As for all those diseases that Jr. never heard of, it just shows how neglected his education was.
Narcolepsy was named in 1880. Tourette Syndrome was named in 1885. ADHD was described in 1902 although under a different name. Autism was named in 1911. The other vague conditions he mentioned like tics and language delay have been noticed since forever. Peanut allergies along with other food allergies have also been known since forever. That Jr. thinks they're something new reflects on him, not on the conditions.
Which is worse---listening to a Tucker Carlson interview or a Dr. Phil interview? The guy is a regressive creep dressed up as a common sense guru. He hawks useless health products just like the rest of those right wing loons.
I guess that's why he likes Trump. He identifies someone conning people to give you money for snake oil.
Check out Josh Barro's brilliant "all the Kennedys suck" Substack today. Although he seems to think that liberals admire the Kennedy "dynasty," it's only a few aging center-left journalists and politicos.
Apropos of RFKJr. saying he'd “never heard of a peanut allergy," I'd never heard of plate tectonics. Or auto-immune disorders. Or calculus. Did those things therefore not exist? That phrase is one of my favorite indicators that the speaker is an idiot (#1 is "It's just common sense"; #2 is "I've always believed" unless followed by "...but I was so wrong").
The less understanding of facts, the more pliable one is. That’s not a sign of strength or something that is admirable. It is a far cry from scientists that change their opinion based on evidence and new discoveries. And for that radiologist, I would joke with my medical colleagues that one who finishes at the bottom of his medical school class is still called Doctor.
"To be scientifically literate is to empower yourself to know when someone else is full of crap." - Neil Degrasse Tyson
In science it often happens that scientists say, "You know that's a really
good argument; my position is mistaken," and then they would actually
change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They
really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists
are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I
cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or
religion. -Carl Sagan