Why the cloak and dagger approach to communicating these first hand accounts of his derangement and narcissism? He actually said out loud that he would go after political and media figures if he is elected. Now is not the time to be coy. Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger are the only two right of center that apparently have the cojones to scream from the rooftops what a danger this man presents to the future of this country. He has destroyed the Republican party, if he is re-elected the sky is the limit for the irreversible damage he will bring to this magnificent country.
I don't know. The real question is who will stop him. MAGAs think he's god, or an entertainer, or whatever. They sadly believe him. Will we be in the position that the Germans were went Hitler took over and had his own private armies? Hitler demanded an oath from the military to support him no matter what he wanted. And too many of them refused to stop him even when they knew he was destroying Germany. . . . I never in my wildest nightmares thought a man like Trump would be able to destroy this country.
I agree that Pence, Bolton, Pompeo (?), other Cabinet members and Senators should speak out. Having former flag officers do so would set a bad precedent. We should want them to stay apolitical and have allegiance to their oath to the constitution. I would not want DJT sycophants like General Michael Flynn to give their opinion. Others are also speaking out. That is a slippery slope. We may need a totally a political military very soon. They must not obey unlawful orders (rounding up his opponents…) that DJT would demand.
Not sure how much respect these generals have. Why the tardy and low key leak to Woodward so he can hold onto it to sell books? Why don't they have the courage to stand up and speak?
I wonder if it’s courage or the something else you suggest. I ask my old college friends why Trump, they say they hate him, but they like his policies. By ‘policies’ they mean they like low taxes. I suggest the campaign slogan and the question to put to the generals should be “country over party & money.”
The one thing these men could do is to talk with Haley and convince her she shouldn’t go on the campaign trail with Trump, of which she is in negotiations.
Obviously Mattis understands the dangers of a second Trump presidency. Expressing his opinion to Woodward, as he reportedly did (in a presumably on-the-record email), seems to have all the same potential downsides{*} as making a public personal statement, and it has a much weaker effect. He's made strong anti-Trump statements in the past. What could be his reasoning in choosing to pull his punches this way now?{**}
The more I look at Woodward's wording in describing this, the vaguer and more convoluted it looks.
It also seems weird that a decorated senior military officer (Mark Milley) would "plead" with a journalist and imply that that journalist could "stop" Trump.
Woodward is a skilled and experienced guy and I'm sure an honest one, but something about all this just feels off. Where exactly the off-ness is in this chain of events and statements, I can't tell.
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{*} e.g. whatever military ethics constraints he may perceive, or political/business/social backlash, or personal safety
{**} Please don't tell me he's bad crazy stupid cowardly lalala; these smug little putdowns get us nowhere; he's probably braver than any 5 of us and he's obviously thought this through. His reasons may be bad or good but they're not that simplistic.
I don’t know, isn’t it a touch cowardly for Mattis to not speak out at this point. Is the threat grave enough to step up and do an interview or something, or is it just enough to be attributed in a book?
I imagine Mattis is held back by the long-standing tradition of military leaders being apolitical. One could argue that the threat Trump poses is bipartisan and apolitical in a sense, but I cannot blame an old school Marine General for abiding by a tenet like that.
Trump knows what accomplished leaders and Marines think of him. Makes him even crazier. Kelly and Mattis know he is a draft dodging coward who wants to be dictator. I grew up with a picture of Chesty Puller on the wall in our house. He would have spoken up over this threat. His son was maimed in Vietnam. Donny the Dodger nursed his mystery bone spurs and climbed into daddy’s pockets. Anything they can do they should do! Speak up!!
That’s the truth! Skipping the Belleau Wood ceremony is sacrilege to the Marines. Kelly went. “retreat hell!”
Mark Milley’s father fought on Iwo Jima and Saipan (that one was insane just not as well known) and Kelly lost his son in Afghanistan. They must loathe the concept of Trump. Speak up for that not some sense of military decorum. Same for Mattis.
I agree, Glenn. Mattis, Kelly and McMaster should be speaking out publicly and loudly rather than indirectly via Woodward. We visited Normandy in France this summer. Our trip included the excellent museum there which made abundantly clear why World Ward II, a war against fascism, had to be fought and won. We also saw the American cemetery there where more than 9000 people who thought democracy was worth fighting and dying for are buried. People who have served in leadership positions in the military know that their decisions will cost other people their lives, and they take that responsibility seriously. Eisenhower, who had to make the decision to invade Normandy wrote two letters before that battle, one if it should succeed and the other if it should fail. He took full responsibility for failure if that should happen. Contrast that with Trump who never takes responsibility for anything. If anything goes wrong, it is always someone else's fault. Trump skipped an earlier visit to an American cemetery in France, but he betrayed the trust of grieving families so he could have a photo op at Arlington National cemetery. He's a disgrace, and every military person should be making clear that he cannot be allowed to become commander in chief ever again.
Does maga ignore these kinds of statements or believe it’s a conspiracy targeting their leader? Either way, pretty convincing evidence of a CULT if this doesn’t shake them in the least.
Poor misled sheep. Sorry, not poor, mostly just stupid. Sorry, not sorry.
Is it just the reflexive "don't mess with politics" that gets demanded of high level military? Mattis served in a political position; so did Kelly. WHY, WHY can they not publicly speak out?!
Seems like the October Surprise everyone was waiting for to take down a presidential candidate.
Why has it not been on the front pages every day? Why has the media not questioned Trump, his campaign staff, prominent Republican and Democratic politicians?
Mattis, Milley, et. al need to understand that telling Woodard is as good as saying nothing. It leaves those Republicans we need to save democracy the opening to say, "if they really meant it they'd say it aloud so either Woodard made it up or they said it to get into his book." I literally had those words said to me earlier today by a Bush supporter. Not a MAGA If these men believe that Trump is as serious a threat as they have shared with Woodard then these "leaders" must speak loudly against this fascist, most dangerous man. It's mind boggling. They aren't leaders if they stand for nothing.
In the part of people's brains that senses fear, lust, hate, fragility, and fantasy; which doesn't come close to the frontal cortex, sees Trump as a "ticket" to personal strength and power...yes, and even a perverse spiritual, other-worldly kind of power.
This part of the brain doesn't take messages from the rational part. It's the part that makes naive youngsters fall in love with criminals, or psychopaths...because it's exciting. It's the part of the brain that causes people to fall for quick money scams (think Madoff), or likes to watch people fistfight.
It doesn't matter if the thrill makes sense, because it feels so expansive and BIG. It's the "bigger than life" part of the thrill that convinces the rational part of your brain that you'll live forever, or that you're King of the World.
Trump has tapped into this part of many brains. He doesn't have to make sense. (Who needs that when you just get high off his fumes?)
How did the best educated and most cultured people in Europe fall for Hitler? You think it was because they were in terrible shape? Not so fast. The Great Depression was going on and everybody was in tough shape. No excuse there.
Hitler made Germans feel indomitable, tough, big, 'best there ever was.'
Guess what else is housed in this part of the brain? "Immortality!"
Why the cloak and dagger approach to communicating these first hand accounts of his derangement and narcissism? He actually said out loud that he would go after political and media figures if he is elected. Now is not the time to be coy. Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger are the only two right of center that apparently have the cojones to scream from the rooftops what a danger this man presents to the future of this country. He has destroyed the Republican party, if he is re-elected the sky is the limit for the irreversible damage he will bring to this magnificent country.
Are we intellectually preparing ourselves for acceptance of a military junta when Trump gets too out of control if he is elected?
I don't know. The real question is who will stop him. MAGAs think he's god, or an entertainer, or whatever. They sadly believe him. Will we be in the position that the Germans were went Hitler took over and had his own private armies? Hitler demanded an oath from the military to support him no matter what he wanted. And too many of them refused to stop him even when they knew he was destroying Germany. . . . I never in my wildest nightmares thought a man like Trump would be able to destroy this country.
All this formality about an aging psychopathic narcissist is insane!
If they think we're in danger, shout it out!
This is not a question of what fork you use for salad!
I agree that Pence, Bolton, Pompeo (?), other Cabinet members and Senators should speak out. Having former flag officers do so would set a bad precedent. We should want them to stay apolitical and have allegiance to their oath to the constitution. I would not want DJT sycophants like General Michael Flynn to give their opinion. Others are also speaking out. That is a slippery slope. We may need a totally a political military very soon. They must not obey unlawful orders (rounding up his opponents…) that DJT would demand.
Not sure how much respect these generals have. Why the tardy and low key leak to Woodward so he can hold onto it to sell books? Why don't they have the courage to stand up and speak?
I wonder if it’s courage or the something else you suggest. I ask my old college friends why Trump, they say they hate him, but they like his policies. By ‘policies’ they mean they like low taxes. I suggest the campaign slogan and the question to put to the generals should be “country over party & money.”
The one thing these men could do is to talk with Haley and convince her she shouldn’t go on the campaign trail with Trump, of which she is in negotiations.
Flynn and Raiklin don't seem to have any qualms about not being apolitical.
Obviously Mattis understands the dangers of a second Trump presidency. Expressing his opinion to Woodward, as he reportedly did (in a presumably on-the-record email), seems to have all the same potential downsides{*} as making a public personal statement, and it has a much weaker effect. He's made strong anti-Trump statements in the past. What could be his reasoning in choosing to pull his punches this way now?{**}
The more I look at Woodward's wording in describing this, the vaguer and more convoluted it looks.
It also seems weird that a decorated senior military officer (Mark Milley) would "plead" with a journalist and imply that that journalist could "stop" Trump.
Woodward is a skilled and experienced guy and I'm sure an honest one, but something about all this just feels off. Where exactly the off-ness is in this chain of events and statements, I can't tell.
------
{*} e.g. whatever military ethics constraints he may perceive, or political/business/social backlash, or personal safety
{**} Please don't tell me he's bad crazy stupid cowardly lalala; these smug little putdowns get us nowhere; he's probably braver than any 5 of us and he's obviously thought this through. His reasons may be bad or good but they're not that simplistic.
I don’t know, isn’t it a touch cowardly for Mattis to not speak out at this point. Is the threat grave enough to step up and do an interview or something, or is it just enough to be attributed in a book?
I imagine Mattis is held back by the long-standing tradition of military leaders being apolitical. One could argue that the threat Trump poses is bipartisan and apolitical in a sense, but I cannot blame an old school Marine General for abiding by a tenet like that.
Not afraid to go into battle, but afraid to speak out against a tyrant?
Trump knows what accomplished leaders and Marines think of him. Makes him even crazier. Kelly and Mattis know he is a draft dodging coward who wants to be dictator. I grew up with a picture of Chesty Puller on the wall in our house. He would have spoken up over this threat. His son was maimed in Vietnam. Donny the Dodger nursed his mystery bone spurs and climbed into daddy’s pockets. Anything they can do they should do! Speak up!!
That’s the truth! Skipping the Belleau Wood ceremony is sacrilege to the Marines. Kelly went. “retreat hell!”
Mark Milley’s father fought on Iwo Jima and Saipan (that one was insane just not as well known) and Kelly lost his son in Afghanistan. They must loathe the concept of Trump. Speak up for that not some sense of military decorum. Same for Mattis.
I agree, Glenn. Mattis, Kelly and McMaster should be speaking out publicly and loudly rather than indirectly via Woodward. We visited Normandy in France this summer. Our trip included the excellent museum there which made abundantly clear why World Ward II, a war against fascism, had to be fought and won. We also saw the American cemetery there where more than 9000 people who thought democracy was worth fighting and dying for are buried. People who have served in leadership positions in the military know that their decisions will cost other people their lives, and they take that responsibility seriously. Eisenhower, who had to make the decision to invade Normandy wrote two letters before that battle, one if it should succeed and the other if it should fail. He took full responsibility for failure if that should happen. Contrast that with Trump who never takes responsibility for anything. If anything goes wrong, it is always someone else's fault. Trump skipped an earlier visit to an American cemetery in France, but he betrayed the trust of grieving families so he could have a photo op at Arlington National cemetery. He's a disgrace, and every military person should be making clear that he cannot be allowed to become commander in chief ever again.
Does maga ignore these kinds of statements or believe it’s a conspiracy targeting their leader? Either way, pretty convincing evidence of a CULT if this doesn’t shake them in the least.
Poor misled sheep. Sorry, not poor, mostly just stupid. Sorry, not sorry.
Is it just the reflexive "don't mess with politics" that gets demanded of high level military? Mattis served in a political position; so did Kelly. WHY, WHY can they not publicly speak out?!
Oh c'mon General! Trump would never do anything fascistic. Well even if he did it would be completely legal, because if a President does it...
Seems like the October Surprise everyone was waiting for to take down a presidential candidate.
Why has it not been on the front pages every day? Why has the media not questioned Trump, his campaign staff, prominent Republican and Democratic politicians?
Mattis, Milley, et. al need to understand that telling Woodard is as good as saying nothing. It leaves those Republicans we need to save democracy the opening to say, "if they really meant it they'd say it aloud so either Woodard made it up or they said it to get into his book." I literally had those words said to me earlier today by a Bush supporter. Not a MAGA If these men believe that Trump is as serious a threat as they have shared with Woodard then these "leaders" must speak loudly against this fascist, most dangerous man. It's mind boggling. They aren't leaders if they stand for nothing.
In the part of people's brains that senses fear, lust, hate, fragility, and fantasy; which doesn't come close to the frontal cortex, sees Trump as a "ticket" to personal strength and power...yes, and even a perverse spiritual, other-worldly kind of power.
This part of the brain doesn't take messages from the rational part. It's the part that makes naive youngsters fall in love with criminals, or psychopaths...because it's exciting. It's the part of the brain that causes people to fall for quick money scams (think Madoff), or likes to watch people fistfight.
It doesn't matter if the thrill makes sense, because it feels so expansive and BIG. It's the "bigger than life" part of the thrill that convinces the rational part of your brain that you'll live forever, or that you're King of the World.
Trump has tapped into this part of many brains. He doesn't have to make sense. (Who needs that when you just get high off his fumes?)
How did the best educated and most cultured people in Europe fall for Hitler? You think it was because they were in terrible shape? Not so fast. The Great Depression was going on and everybody was in tough shape. No excuse there.
Hitler made Germans feel indomitable, tough, big, 'best there ever was.'
Guess what else is housed in this part of the brain? "Immortality!"