Trump knows what accomplished leaders and Marines think of him. Makes him even crazier. Kelly and Mattis know he is a draft dodging coward who wants to be dictator. I grew up with a picture of Chesty Puller on the wall in our house. He would have spoken up over this threat. His son was maimed in Vietnam. Donny the Dodger nursed his mystery bone spurs and climbed into daddy’s pockets. Anything they can do they should do! Speak up!!
That’s the truth! Skipping the Belleau Wood ceremony is sacrilege to the Marines. Kelly went. “retreat hell!”
Mark Milley’s father fought on Iwo Jima and Saipan (that one was insane just not as well known) and Kelly lost his son in Afghanistan. They must loathe the concept of Trump. Speak up for that not some sense of military decorum. Same for Mattis.
I agree, Glenn. Mattis, Kelly and McMaster should be speaking out publicly and loudly rather than indirectly via Woodward. We visited Normandy in France this summer. Our trip included the excellent museum there which made abundantly clear why World Ward II, a war against fascism, had to be fought and won. We also saw the American cemetery there where more than 9000 people who thought democracy was worth fighting and dying for are buried. People who have served in leadership positions in the military know that their decisions will cost other people their lives, and they take that responsibility seriously. Eisenhower, who had to make the decision to invade Normandy wrote two letters before that battle, one if it should succeed and the other if it should fail. He took full responsibility for failure if that should happen. Contrast that with Trump who never takes responsibility for anything. If anything goes wrong, it is always someone else's fault. Trump skipped an earlier visit to an American cemetery in France, but he betrayed the trust of grieving families so he could have a photo op at Arlington National cemetery. He's a disgrace, and every military person should be making clear that he cannot be allowed to become commander in chief ever again.
Does maga ignore these kinds of statements or believe it’s a conspiracy targeting their leader? Either way, pretty convincing evidence of a CULT if this doesn’t shake them in the least.
Poor misled sheep. Sorry, not poor, mostly just stupid. Sorry, not sorry.
Is it just the reflexive "don't mess with politics" that gets demanded of high level military? Mattis served in a political position; so did Kelly. WHY, WHY can they not publicly speak out?!
Seems like the October Surprise everyone was waiting for to take down a presidential candidate.
Why has it not been on the front pages every day? Why has the media not questioned Trump, his campaign staff, prominent Republican and Democratic politicians?
Mattis, Milley, et. al need to understand that telling Woodard is as good as saying nothing. It leaves those Republicans we need to save democracy the opening to say, "if they really meant it they'd say it aloud so either Woodard made it up or they said it to get into his book." I literally had those words said to me earlier today by a Bush supporter. Not a MAGA If these men believe that Trump is as serious a threat as they have shared with Woodard then these "leaders" must speak loudly against this fascist, most dangerous man. It's mind boggling. They aren't leaders if they stand for nothing.
In the part of people's brains that senses fear, lust, hate, fragility, and fantasy; which doesn't come close to the frontal cortex, sees Trump as a "ticket" to personal strength and power...yes, and even a perverse spiritual, other-worldly kind of power.
This part of the brain doesn't take messages from the rational part. It's the part that makes naive youngsters fall in love with criminals, or psychopaths...because it's exciting. It's the part of the brain that causes people to fall for quick money scams (think Madoff), or likes to watch people fistfight.
It doesn't matter if the thrill makes sense, because it feels so expansive and BIG. It's the "bigger than life" part of the thrill that convinces the rational part of your brain that you'll live forever, or that you're King of the World.
Trump has tapped into this part of many brains. He doesn't have to make sense. (Who needs that when you just get high off his fumes?)
How did the best educated and most cultured people in Europe fall for Hitler? You think it was because they were in terrible shape? Not so fast. The Great Depression was going on and everybody was in tough shape. No excuse there.
Hitler made Germans feel indomitable, tough, big, 'best there ever was.'
Guess what else is housed in this part of the brain? "Immortality!"
If Trump wins, Woodward is near the top of list of people I will never forgive. Along with the rest of those cowardly generals. Do they imagine Trump won’t come after them if he’s back in power?
Because he's had the words, the knowledge ages ago, and kept his mouth shut until he wrote a book. This, all of this, should have been screamed from the headlines in January, not 2 weeks before the election. Maybe, just maybe, Trump would never have been the nominee. I'm willing to bet Woodward has all kinds of dirt on most of the Trump kissers and he's waiting until he writes another book!
I’m glad Woodward has had this kind of access to Trump and knowledgeable people in Trump’s “administration” or this message and many others would never be known to the American public. That said, Woodward sitting on the information until the 11th (12th?!) hour when he knows more than most of us what a threat Trump was as president and what an exponentially greater threat he/Vance/Project 2025 are NOW is just wrong in my view. MANY people have already voted and the election is (unbelievably) days away, and Woodward had this information, wrote a book, waited through an editing process, and finally let some of the info from the book out at this late hour. And Woodward is just one of the many people who have done this sort of thing, KNOWING how precarious this time is for our country and our democracy. I’m glad the book is being released and the information is coming out. And, I’m appalled that the US is in the ridiculous position of having a convicted felon/rapist/conman having almost half of this huge country’s population in his thrall, and the race being even close with such a wonderful, hopeful, genuine, female true public servant running against him. Go Kamala!!!
I’ve thought of that but some people have already voted…. I’m no expert; I’m just thinking that even releasing it a month or two earlier might have helped. Mostly I’m objecting to people hanging on to information that could literally CHANGE THIS COUNTRY FROM A DEMOCRACY TO AN AUTOCRACY for personal, individual gain. Are we so far to the end of the Individualist-Collectivist spectrum that most Americans will choose the personal benefit over the common good most/all of the time? I hope not…
I agree with you, Gail, the threat Trump et al pose(s) is as plain as day. And yet I know SO MANY people personally who have been sucked in to that black hole and will not be swayed away from their cult. I’m talking about people who are some combination of intelligent, educated, devout, Christian, religious, and who I’ve always thought to be reasonable, caring people. Before 2015-2016 I guess I thought American democracy and government just took care of itself - it was not something I paid much attention to. As soon as Trump was an actual contender for president I got very engaged and have stayed hypervigilent about American politics for 9 years. But the people I know who are Trumpers have either gotten their “information” from right-wing “news”, their churches, or Facebook/social media (or all of these) and, most importantly, don’t fact check any of their “trusted sources.” They are not proactively seeking information like you did. And, most baffling to me, they don’t seem to question even the most outlandish allegations if they come from THEIR sources (and won’t believe the most reasonable claims or rebuttals from “other” sources)! I know Woodward sitting on information is just one of a million things that might make a difference in this race, but I’ll take anything that will change any Trump-clouded mind or sway any undecided voter to reason and reality.
Woodwards book is important. General Mattis statement is important.
But why do people need this in order to understand what is going on?
Project 2025 has made the republican agenda very clear, and that trump is their ticket to getting a white christian nationalist government established in the US. Trump's words and actions were definitively fascist in his first administration. I am not a political genius, but I was distressed enough to google definitions of fascism in 1917, after a few months of seeing what trump was doing. I found study on fascism which defined 14 characteristics of fascism, and applying trumps words and actions to each of these definitions, saw that he clearly fits ALL of these. If I as a private citizen could see this, surely people with more experience and in positions of power could see it. Project 2025 spelled it out in 922 pages of specific steps that could be taken to change this country from a republic to a white christian nationalist government under trump. Black and white, crystal clear. Are our leaders and citizens not willing to face and deal with the truth!!!???
There was an expression I often heard from military members: When the going gets tough, the tough get going. I am afraid that these flag rank officers have forgotten that axiom, just as they seem to have forgotten that cowardice in the face of the enemy CAN be a court-martial offense. And refusing to tell the American public what they all know from their time "in the Situation Room" with the Orange Buffoon is cowardice and the last thing one expects from one who has been a position where he could have been required, at the drop of the proverbial hat, to order troops under his command into harm's way for the benefit of the nation each of them sworn to defend.
Well, I understand the gist of your post, but those “Generals & Admirals” had A LOT to lose if they exposed their angst or revealed Top Secret conversations.
At least their pensions for life long service, likely their freedom.
Remember Reality Winner?
Convicted, served 5 years in prison for one time release of a suppressed document that substantiated Russian efforts to help trump reach the presidency.
BTW - she suffered way beyond normal imprisonment by trump’s direct orders. That’s a clue, people.
It is time for Mattis, Bolton, Milley, Pence and the rest of Trump's cabinet to sit in the lobby at Fox News until Bret Baier makes time to interview THEM. Let him try to play his stupid word games with those guys.
Can you imagine? (And I know this is wishcasting.)
"Gentlemen, over 71 million Americans, half the country, see Donald Trump as the right man to lead the country. Are they stupid?"
"Bret, I've been in the Situation Room with this man. I've seen how he thinks and how he makes decisions. None of those 71 million people can say that. I can say, after serving this country in uniform for 36 years, that I have NEVER seen a man this unstable put in a position of any authority. He would be unfit to lead a platoon in the US Army. He is unfit in every way for the Presidency."
Do that with every one of those guys.
I know it'll never happen, but it might make a difference if it did.
I respectfully disagree. If our leadership is silent because of potential MAGA threats we may as well admit defeat and give them the country. Then we can hide in our safe spaces and wait until it's our turn.
It'd be even better if it was Hannity or one of those fat, stupid, cosplayers who are always going on and on about the military, an institution about which they know nothing.
Milley's an imposing figure. He ought to do the interview standing up. Make Sean wave his pen around and slur out whatever nonsense he wants. Milley's not going to look intimidated. And he has no reason to be nice.
Trump knows what accomplished leaders and Marines think of him. Makes him even crazier. Kelly and Mattis know he is a draft dodging coward who wants to be dictator. I grew up with a picture of Chesty Puller on the wall in our house. He would have spoken up over this threat. His son was maimed in Vietnam. Donny the Dodger nursed his mystery bone spurs and climbed into daddy’s pockets. Anything they can do they should do! Speak up!!
That’s the truth! Skipping the Belleau Wood ceremony is sacrilege to the Marines. Kelly went. “retreat hell!”
Mark Milley’s father fought on Iwo Jima and Saipan (that one was insane just not as well known) and Kelly lost his son in Afghanistan. They must loathe the concept of Trump. Speak up for that not some sense of military decorum. Same for Mattis.
I agree, Glenn. Mattis, Kelly and McMaster should be speaking out publicly and loudly rather than indirectly via Woodward. We visited Normandy in France this summer. Our trip included the excellent museum there which made abundantly clear why World Ward II, a war against fascism, had to be fought and won. We also saw the American cemetery there where more than 9000 people who thought democracy was worth fighting and dying for are buried. People who have served in leadership positions in the military know that their decisions will cost other people their lives, and they take that responsibility seriously. Eisenhower, who had to make the decision to invade Normandy wrote two letters before that battle, one if it should succeed and the other if it should fail. He took full responsibility for failure if that should happen. Contrast that with Trump who never takes responsibility for anything. If anything goes wrong, it is always someone else's fault. Trump skipped an earlier visit to an American cemetery in France, but he betrayed the trust of grieving families so he could have a photo op at Arlington National cemetery. He's a disgrace, and every military person should be making clear that he cannot be allowed to become commander in chief ever again.
Does maga ignore these kinds of statements or believe it’s a conspiracy targeting their leader? Either way, pretty convincing evidence of a CULT if this doesn’t shake them in the least.
Poor misled sheep. Sorry, not poor, mostly just stupid. Sorry, not sorry.
Is it just the reflexive "don't mess with politics" that gets demanded of high level military? Mattis served in a political position; so did Kelly. WHY, WHY can they not publicly speak out?!
Oh c'mon General! Trump would never do anything fascistic. Well even if he did it would be completely legal, because if a President does it...
Seems like the October Surprise everyone was waiting for to take down a presidential candidate.
Why has it not been on the front pages every day? Why has the media not questioned Trump, his campaign staff, prominent Republican and Democratic politicians?
Mattis, Milley, et. al need to understand that telling Woodard is as good as saying nothing. It leaves those Republicans we need to save democracy the opening to say, "if they really meant it they'd say it aloud so either Woodard made it up or they said it to get into his book." I literally had those words said to me earlier today by a Bush supporter. Not a MAGA If these men believe that Trump is as serious a threat as they have shared with Woodard then these "leaders" must speak loudly against this fascist, most dangerous man. It's mind boggling. They aren't leaders if they stand for nothing.
In the part of people's brains that senses fear, lust, hate, fragility, and fantasy; which doesn't come close to the frontal cortex, sees Trump as a "ticket" to personal strength and power...yes, and even a perverse spiritual, other-worldly kind of power.
This part of the brain doesn't take messages from the rational part. It's the part that makes naive youngsters fall in love with criminals, or psychopaths...because it's exciting. It's the part of the brain that causes people to fall for quick money scams (think Madoff), or likes to watch people fistfight.
It doesn't matter if the thrill makes sense, because it feels so expansive and BIG. It's the "bigger than life" part of the thrill that convinces the rational part of your brain that you'll live forever, or that you're King of the World.
Trump has tapped into this part of many brains. He doesn't have to make sense. (Who needs that when you just get high off his fumes?)
How did the best educated and most cultured people in Europe fall for Hitler? You think it was because they were in terrible shape? Not so fast. The Great Depression was going on and everybody was in tough shape. No excuse there.
Hitler made Germans feel indomitable, tough, big, 'best there ever was.'
Guess what else is housed in this part of the brain? "Immortality!"
Thomas Paine correctly described it two-hundred and forty years ago…”summer soldiers and sunshine patriots.”
Speak up, Mattis! What greater service could you render unto your country than speaking up now?
While I agree that Mattis should speak publicly … the real question is, Would anyone listen? ‘Fraid not in these ensiled days.
While it's too little, almost too late, you never know who might pick up on his public statements and be a little bit influenced.
Only if it's covered everywhere. Right now, except for MSNBC, nobody seems to care.
If Trump wins, Woodward is near the top of list of people I will never forgive. Along with the rest of those cowardly generals. Do they imagine Trump won’t come after them if he’s back in power?
Why condemn Woodward??
Because he's had the words, the knowledge ages ago, and kept his mouth shut until he wrote a book. This, all of this, should have been screamed from the headlines in January, not 2 weeks before the election. Maybe, just maybe, Trump would never have been the nominee. I'm willing to bet Woodward has all kinds of dirt on most of the Trump kissers and he's waiting until he writes another book!
I’m glad Woodward has had this kind of access to Trump and knowledgeable people in Trump’s “administration” or this message and many others would never be known to the American public. That said, Woodward sitting on the information until the 11th (12th?!) hour when he knows more than most of us what a threat Trump was as president and what an exponentially greater threat he/Vance/Project 2025 are NOW is just wrong in my view. MANY people have already voted and the election is (unbelievably) days away, and Woodward had this information, wrote a book, waited through an editing process, and finally let some of the info from the book out at this late hour. And Woodward is just one of the many people who have done this sort of thing, KNOWING how precarious this time is for our country and our democracy. I’m glad the book is being released and the information is coming out. And, I’m appalled that the US is in the ridiculous position of having a convicted felon/rapist/conman having almost half of this huge country’s population in his thrall, and the race being even close with such a wonderful, hopeful, genuine, female true public servant running against him. Go Kamala!!!
But maybe releasing it now would have a greater effect ("October surprise")?
Maybe releasing it earlier would have strengthened Nikki or one of the saner Rs so we wouldn't be facing with an open demented fascist.
I’ve thought of that but some people have already voted…. I’m no expert; I’m just thinking that even releasing it a month or two earlier might have helped. Mostly I’m objecting to people hanging on to information that could literally CHANGE THIS COUNTRY FROM A DEMOCRACY TO AN AUTOCRACY for personal, individual gain. Are we so far to the end of the Individualist-Collectivist spectrum that most Americans will choose the personal benefit over the common good most/all of the time? I hope not…
I agree with you, Gail, the threat Trump et al pose(s) is as plain as day. And yet I know SO MANY people personally who have been sucked in to that black hole and will not be swayed away from their cult. I’m talking about people who are some combination of intelligent, educated, devout, Christian, religious, and who I’ve always thought to be reasonable, caring people. Before 2015-2016 I guess I thought American democracy and government just took care of itself - it was not something I paid much attention to. As soon as Trump was an actual contender for president I got very engaged and have stayed hypervigilent about American politics for 9 years. But the people I know who are Trumpers have either gotten their “information” from right-wing “news”, their churches, or Facebook/social media (or all of these) and, most importantly, don’t fact check any of their “trusted sources.” They are not proactively seeking information like you did. And, most baffling to me, they don’t seem to question even the most outlandish allegations if they come from THEIR sources (and won’t believe the most reasonable claims or rebuttals from “other” sources)! I know Woodward sitting on information is just one of a million things that might make a difference in this race, but I’ll take anything that will change any Trump-clouded mind or sway any undecided voter to reason and reality.
Woodwards book is important. General Mattis statement is important.
But why do people need this in order to understand what is going on?
Project 2025 has made the republican agenda very clear, and that trump is their ticket to getting a white christian nationalist government established in the US. Trump's words and actions were definitively fascist in his first administration. I am not a political genius, but I was distressed enough to google definitions of fascism in 1917, after a few months of seeing what trump was doing. I found study on fascism which defined 14 characteristics of fascism, and applying trumps words and actions to each of these definitions, saw that he clearly fits ALL of these. If I as a private citizen could see this, surely people with more experience and in positions of power could see it. Project 2025 spelled it out in 922 pages of specific steps that could be taken to change this country from a republic to a white christian nationalist government under trump. Black and white, crystal clear. Are our leaders and citizens not willing to face and deal with the truth!!!???
There was an expression I often heard from military members: When the going gets tough, the tough get going. I am afraid that these flag rank officers have forgotten that axiom, just as they seem to have forgotten that cowardice in the face of the enemy CAN be a court-martial offense. And refusing to tell the American public what they all know from their time "in the Situation Room" with the Orange Buffoon is cowardice and the last thing one expects from one who has been a position where he could have been required, at the drop of the proverbial hat, to order troops under his command into harm's way for the benefit of the nation each of them sworn to defend.
Well, I understand the gist of your post, but those “Generals & Admirals” had A LOT to lose if they exposed their angst or revealed Top Secret conversations.
At least their pensions for life long service, likely their freedom.
Remember Reality Winner?
Convicted, served 5 years in prison for one time release of a suppressed document that substantiated Russian efforts to help trump reach the presidency.
BTW - she suffered way beyond normal imprisonment by trump’s direct orders. That’s a clue, people.
It is time for Mattis, Bolton, Milley, Pence and the rest of Trump's cabinet to sit in the lobby at Fox News until Bret Baier makes time to interview THEM. Let him try to play his stupid word games with those guys.
Can you imagine? (And I know this is wishcasting.)
"Gentlemen, over 71 million Americans, half the country, see Donald Trump as the right man to lead the country. Are they stupid?"
"Bret, I've been in the Situation Room with this man. I've seen how he thinks and how he makes decisions. None of those 71 million people can say that. I can say, after serving this country in uniform for 36 years, that I have NEVER seen a man this unstable put in a position of any authority. He would be unfit to lead a platoon in the US Army. He is unfit in every way for the Presidency."
Do that with every one of those guys.
I know it'll never happen, but it might make a difference if it did.
Again everyone, this is NOT Necessary! It has all been spelled out for us, we don't need to make people who may be punished for talking more do so.
I respectfully disagree. If our leadership is silent because of potential MAGA threats we may as well admit defeat and give them the country. Then we can hide in our safe spaces and wait until it's our turn.
True. Roughly half the population seems to WANT a fascist dictator because they think he will punish the other half!
I like it. I see it as their duty...to protect and defend the constitution. Hell Yes.
Citizens already have all the information they need to vote against putting trump back in office.
True. Roughly half the population seems to WANT a fascist dictator because they think he will punish the other half!
True. And roughly half the population seems to WANT a fascist dictator because they think he will punish the other half!
It'd be even better if it was Hannity or one of those fat, stupid, cosplayers who are always going on and on about the military, an institution about which they know nothing.
Milley's an imposing figure. He ought to do the interview standing up. Make Sean wave his pen around and slur out whatever nonsense he wants. Milley's not going to look intimidated. And he has no reason to be nice.
Fox doesn't have the guts to produce this.
Absolutely true. And maybe their cowardice should be called out.
Dare them to do it.
Taunt them.
Make them address it.
Thank you Liz !!
Thank you Adam !!
Where are the other patriots ?
A little late for this; from all the generals and others that the right "might" listen to.