I worked for a company owned by a Chabad guy with mostly UltraOrthodox clients for over five years. I dealt with many men who owned property or businesses yet received public assistance or their families who they supported did. Williamsburg has a higher poverty rate than average in NYC and it's not because of the hipsters that live there. The stereotypes are real
"Israel just provides an additional permission structure to back Trump." Sorry, there is no permission structure possible for putting Trump back in office. All patriots oppose Trump.
On the topic of the 2000 pound bomb holdup, I have two questions. First, how many targets does Hamas have that are impervious to smaller weapons? Second, has anyone polled the JAG corps for their assessment of Israel's culpability for Gaza's civilian casualties?
The first question responds to Saletan's point, which isn't allowing comments, that Hamas's use of human shields does not justify a lack of concern for collateral damage. However that should not be the end of the story. It is true that Hamas targets that are susceptible to Hellfire missiles should not be targeted with 2000 pound bombs in order to spare the surrounding civilians, even if there is no legal justification for their presence. However, it does not follow from that that if Hamas is in a 50 meter deep bunker that Israel should rule out using large blast radius weapons no matter how limited such weapons' capability is at penetrating such bunkers.
The second question gets at whether or not people making such balances are consulted, or if Biden is only consulting those who only look at the collateral damage.
most of the Jewish Democrats who leave Biden will do so bc of antisemitism on the Left. It is awful and horrendous, and Biden’s FP is subordinate to these haters. Writing has been on the wall for months.
The NYT Sunday Magazine had a long article chronicling how Israel has allowed an armed group of extreme right-wing ultra-orthodox to terrorize the Palestinians in the West Bank, destroy their homes and kill them if they got in the way, without facing any consequences from the law. This process has been going on for 25 years. The object of these people is to eliminate all Palestinians — from the river to the sea.
Yes, the rich, mostly orthodox Jews, like the Adelson family, have always been extreme pro-Israel, right or wrong. Like meany billionaires, they feel they are never wrong, no matter how many people get killed in the process. As a Jew who lost many great uncles and cousins in the holocaust, I am sickened by Israel’s murderous behavior. I guess the message of “Never Again,” means “unless we do it.” Netanyahu, Trump, and Putin are leaders with the same father.
Even the shrewd Jewish lobby can now be duped. Ready to swallow this newest "mishigas" have they willingly forgotten that DJT is not "pro" anything? He is only pro "Trump".
Jewish businessmen or businesswomen have been so angered by President Biden's ultimatum to cut off weapon gifting to Israel if IDF troops move strong into Rafah, that they have promised the Trump campaign, or already given the Trump campaign, millions of dollars. They have also promised, 'more will be on the way.'
Trump and his acolytes have promised to help Israelis and will continue to help all their righteous causes, without insinuating that future help will come at a price. Maybe those words have not been spoken, but when it comes to gentlemen's agreements, much is understood without words.
Given Trump's proclivity for chaos, what could go wrong with this latest back scratching agreement? Does Israel double down? Do millions of American Jews see the orange glow of an epiphany and nudge Trump across the finish line into the WH again?
Does the heinous Christian prophecy of the Apocalypse finally come to fruition... a massive war via Israel, finally bring ultimate destruction to our planet?
Does pay for play work here... in spite of the Republican love of isolationism?
I am hesitant to write this comment but — think it is useful for this audience to get a look “under the tent” so to speak.
Until 2019 I was a “National Leader” in the Republican Jewish Coalition. The title conveyed that I contributed at least four figures to the organization annually.
I am, politically, a fiscal conservative and a social moderate. That fit well into the RJC for many years. Two annual meetings were opportunities to meet both politicians and fellow successful business people in an exchange of ideas to strengthen America and expand opportunities here while maintaining a strong national defense.
A part of that faith in the USA as the “indispensable nation” was our steadfast commitment to Israel as both a “Jewish Homeland” born out of the blood of martyrs over 5000 years of recorded history — including my grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins — but, also, a thriving democracy in a sea of medieval autocracies.
But, for me, everything changed in 2019. The appearance of Donald Trump at the annual Las Vegas conference transformed a stimulating and elegant “soirée” into a “cult-like “tent revival” — over the “redesignation” of the Jerusalem US Consulate as the USA “embassy” to Israel while the principle embassy operations remained in Tel Aviv.
A native Californian and member of the “reformed” movement of Judaism — I remember witnessing some Orthodox traditions during my first national meeting and thinking to myself — “oh my, this is part of the “religious right” as Democrats are known to refer to Evangelicals.
But 2019 —this was an entirely different matter. My erstwhile co-conservatives and co-“congregants” turned, before, my eyes into the same band that had once turned from Moses to the worship of the Golden Calf
I have a long time friend who is a woman who has always been very active in the reformed Jewish community. She has also been very liberal on all matters in the US. She began opposing Trump and ridiculing the MAGA movement seven years ago and never let up until the war in Israel started and she went silent. She seemed anxious and confused and didn't want to talk about it. However, the only email we got regarding what was going on the Gaza was an article praising Elise Stefanik. Im my mind, if your stand with Elie Stefanik, you know something is wrong.
"“Every one of my friends started calling and asking, ‘What can I do for Donald Trump?’” Witkoff, a pro-Israel donor and fundraiser for Trump’s presidential campaign, told The Bulwark."
Here's a suggestion: commit Seppuku over a lack of honor (I don't often condone violence, even to one's self, but here I'm willing to make an exception). The lack of honor particularly applies Mr Witkoff and his fellow Jewish RINO travelers. I just can't grok why a Jewish person would contribute to and support an obvious antisemite. If they truly think that Trump [sic] won't eventually turn on them for no other reason than that they are Jewish, I have a couple of bridges up for sale... cheap (the first on the auction block is the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore). I'd bet the farm that as soon as TFG has sucked everything he can out of these deep-pocket folk he'll immediately throw them under the bus, throw them to the MAGA wolves who will be open to ruining these "uppity Jews who think that they have a place at the MAGA/New GOP's table."
-----
"“Given the sharp contrast between Donald Trump, who was the most pro-Israel president in history, versus Joe Biden, who rivals Jimmy Carter as the worst, we are confident that we will continue to make inroads in the Jewish vote for president,” said RJC executive director Matt Brooks."
I'm sorry to have to say this to you, Mr Brooks, but Trump [sic] was *not* "the most pro-Israel president in history," he has been the most pro Netanyahu [the Israeli Trump (sic)] POTUS, despite the chasm created when Bibi congratulated Pres Biden. The only reason I can think of that Brooks is placing Biden so low on his list of pro-Israel presidents is that he had the audacity to tell Netanyahu that he won't send 2000 and 500 pound bombs to further obliterate the Gaza infrastructure, other than that one thing Biden has been amongst the most pro-Israel politicians since he came to Washington (he has been a supporter of the state, not necessarily its leadership). I expect TFG to throw Israel under the bus once his butt buddy Bibi is unceremoniously booted from office, the MAGAdroids won't allow him to accept a Jewish state, considering their opinions of Jews in the first place.
I'll conclude by saying that, imo, any person who identifies as Jewish and supports a known Jew-hater like TFG has to be, by definition, self-hating.
Reasonable people can disagree about US-Israeli relations, Biden's recent move to curtail certain weapons from Israel, or any other policy issue involving the US and Israel. But as a Jewish American Zionist who detests both Bibi and Trump, I find Cliff Asness's comment that: “My ‘Never Again’ is trumping my ‘Never Trump’ these days” to be both trite and dangerous. The triteness lies in the simplistic phrasing of his rationale for being willing to consider Trump, which is nothing more than providing a permission structure for other wealthy Republican Jews (who want the tax breaks and lower regulation that Trump promises to them but don't want to admit it out loud) to justify their support of Trump. The danger lies in what they are really saying: i.e., there are issues more important to them than the irrefutable facts that Trump participated in the false electors schemes intended to subvert the lawful transfer of power after Biden's election, and Trump utterly failed to execute his duties as Commander in Chief on January 6th, as he did nothing for hours while the US Capitol was attacked. To take that position is to deny everything the US has enabled people like Asness to accomplish: wealth, power and the like, and it disgusts me.
Trump is transactional. Saudi Arabia has already given his son in law $2 billion and I am sure there is a lot more money to be had. Trump is for sale to highest bider. If American Jewish interests think they can rely on Trump to be more favorable to Israel than President Biden; then, I'd say it is a gamble. Trump is not a man of his word on anything. Trust is not in his vocabulary.
American Jews overwhelmingly vote Democratic. Despite dismay over recent announcements, it isn't going to make one bit of difference come November. Biden has shown us where he stands. We stand with Biden.
I wish I shared your confidence in the Jewish Democratic vote. It won't matter in NY or CA, where Biden will easily win. But there are +400,000 Jewish voters in PA, +140,000 in GA, +120,000 in AZ, +85,000 in MI and almost 80,000 in NV. A small shift in Jewish Democratic voting in these states can make the difference between victory and defeat for Biden in November, given how tight these races were in 2020. It worries me.
American Jews are mostly Democrats. A lot of big Jewish donors have been Republicans. This has always been true. I’ve never known whether they’re soulless morons who think evangelicals really like them or just focused on tax cuts.
It’s nice that Trump will have someone to pay his legal fees, because that’s where the money is going. If campaign money matters, he will never touch Biden financially.
Bibi is נָבָל, an evil, corrupt
man and that’s why rich Republican Jews support him. Camel. Needle eye. And so on. He’s their only hope to buy their way in.
None of this is new. We Jews in red states continue to inveigh against these people and envy those in blue states. “Never again” doesn’t mean what they think it does. In today’s world at least some of them would fund the Nazis.
I would like to think that most American Jews see Trump as a wannabe Hitler, and will vote accordingly.
I worked for a company owned by a Chabad guy with mostly UltraOrthodox clients for over five years. I dealt with many men who owned property or businesses yet received public assistance or their families who they supported did. Williamsburg has a higher poverty rate than average in NYC and it's not because of the hipsters that live there. The stereotypes are real
"Israel just provides an additional permission structure to back Trump." Sorry, there is no permission structure possible for putting Trump back in office. All patriots oppose Trump.
Please remember to add the fact that Netanyahu is a close personal friend of Jared Kushner’s father.
On the topic of the 2000 pound bomb holdup, I have two questions. First, how many targets does Hamas have that are impervious to smaller weapons? Second, has anyone polled the JAG corps for their assessment of Israel's culpability for Gaza's civilian casualties?
The first question responds to Saletan's point, which isn't allowing comments, that Hamas's use of human shields does not justify a lack of concern for collateral damage. However that should not be the end of the story. It is true that Hamas targets that are susceptible to Hellfire missiles should not be targeted with 2000 pound bombs in order to spare the surrounding civilians, even if there is no legal justification for their presence. However, it does not follow from that that if Hamas is in a 50 meter deep bunker that Israel should rule out using large blast radius weapons no matter how limited such weapons' capability is at penetrating such bunkers.
The second question gets at whether or not people making such balances are consulted, or if Biden is only consulting those who only look at the collateral damage.
most of the Jewish Democrats who leave Biden will do so bc of antisemitism on the Left. It is awful and horrendous, and Biden’s FP is subordinate to these haters. Writing has been on the wall for months.
Biden is not in any way subordinate to left-wing antisemites.
The NYT Sunday Magazine had a long article chronicling how Israel has allowed an armed group of extreme right-wing ultra-orthodox to terrorize the Palestinians in the West Bank, destroy their homes and kill them if they got in the way, without facing any consequences from the law. This process has been going on for 25 years. The object of these people is to eliminate all Palestinians — from the river to the sea.
Yes, the rich, mostly orthodox Jews, like the Adelson family, have always been extreme pro-Israel, right or wrong. Like meany billionaires, they feel they are never wrong, no matter how many people get killed in the process. As a Jew who lost many great uncles and cousins in the holocaust, I am sickened by Israel’s murderous behavior. I guess the message of “Never Again,” means “unless we do it.” Netanyahu, Trump, and Putin are leaders with the same father.
Even the shrewd Jewish lobby can now be duped. Ready to swallow this newest "mishigas" have they willingly forgotten that DJT is not "pro" anything? He is only pro "Trump".
Jewish businessmen or businesswomen have been so angered by President Biden's ultimatum to cut off weapon gifting to Israel if IDF troops move strong into Rafah, that they have promised the Trump campaign, or already given the Trump campaign, millions of dollars. They have also promised, 'more will be on the way.'
Trump and his acolytes have promised to help Israelis and will continue to help all their righteous causes, without insinuating that future help will come at a price. Maybe those words have not been spoken, but when it comes to gentlemen's agreements, much is understood without words.
Given Trump's proclivity for chaos, what could go wrong with this latest back scratching agreement? Does Israel double down? Do millions of American Jews see the orange glow of an epiphany and nudge Trump across the finish line into the WH again?
Does the heinous Christian prophecy of the Apocalypse finally come to fruition... a massive war via Israel, finally bring ultimate destruction to our planet?
Does pay for play work here... in spite of the Republican love of isolationism?
What say ye, Oh Bulwarkian prophets?
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=D59x6WeZ9t4&si=axQ6MmI8ULgOLrO8
I am hesitant to write this comment but — think it is useful for this audience to get a look “under the tent” so to speak.
Until 2019 I was a “National Leader” in the Republican Jewish Coalition. The title conveyed that I contributed at least four figures to the organization annually.
I am, politically, a fiscal conservative and a social moderate. That fit well into the RJC for many years. Two annual meetings were opportunities to meet both politicians and fellow successful business people in an exchange of ideas to strengthen America and expand opportunities here while maintaining a strong national defense.
A part of that faith in the USA as the “indispensable nation” was our steadfast commitment to Israel as both a “Jewish Homeland” born out of the blood of martyrs over 5000 years of recorded history — including my grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins — but, also, a thriving democracy in a sea of medieval autocracies.
But, for me, everything changed in 2019. The appearance of Donald Trump at the annual Las Vegas conference transformed a stimulating and elegant “soirée” into a “cult-like “tent revival” — over the “redesignation” of the Jerusalem US Consulate as the USA “embassy” to Israel while the principle embassy operations remained in Tel Aviv.
A native Californian and member of the “reformed” movement of Judaism — I remember witnessing some Orthodox traditions during my first national meeting and thinking to myself — “oh my, this is part of the “religious right” as Democrats are known to refer to Evangelicals.
But 2019 —this was an entirely different matter. My erstwhile co-conservatives and co-“congregants” turned, before, my eyes into the same band that had once turned from Moses to the worship of the Golden Calf
Had this time turned from God and Country to the worship of the “Orange God” with the KINGSIZED rear-end.
I flew home the following morning and announced my decision to renounce my GOP membership on my Sunday morning Salem Radio Network radio broadcast.
Cults are not “Jewish” —
I have a long time friend who is a woman who has always been very active in the reformed Jewish community. She has also been very liberal on all matters in the US. She began opposing Trump and ridiculing the MAGA movement seven years ago and never let up until the war in Israel started and she went silent. She seemed anxious and confused and didn't want to talk about it. However, the only email we got regarding what was going on the Gaza was an article praising Elise Stefanik. Im my mind, if your stand with Elie Stefanik, you know something is wrong.
"“Every one of my friends started calling and asking, ‘What can I do for Donald Trump?’” Witkoff, a pro-Israel donor and fundraiser for Trump’s presidential campaign, told The Bulwark."
Here's a suggestion: commit Seppuku over a lack of honor (I don't often condone violence, even to one's self, but here I'm willing to make an exception). The lack of honor particularly applies Mr Witkoff and his fellow Jewish RINO travelers. I just can't grok why a Jewish person would contribute to and support an obvious antisemite. If they truly think that Trump [sic] won't eventually turn on them for no other reason than that they are Jewish, I have a couple of bridges up for sale... cheap (the first on the auction block is the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore). I'd bet the farm that as soon as TFG has sucked everything he can out of these deep-pocket folk he'll immediately throw them under the bus, throw them to the MAGA wolves who will be open to ruining these "uppity Jews who think that they have a place at the MAGA/New GOP's table."
-----
"“Given the sharp contrast between Donald Trump, who was the most pro-Israel president in history, versus Joe Biden, who rivals Jimmy Carter as the worst, we are confident that we will continue to make inroads in the Jewish vote for president,” said RJC executive director Matt Brooks."
I'm sorry to have to say this to you, Mr Brooks, but Trump [sic] was *not* "the most pro-Israel president in history," he has been the most pro Netanyahu [the Israeli Trump (sic)] POTUS, despite the chasm created when Bibi congratulated Pres Biden. The only reason I can think of that Brooks is placing Biden so low on his list of pro-Israel presidents is that he had the audacity to tell Netanyahu that he won't send 2000 and 500 pound bombs to further obliterate the Gaza infrastructure, other than that one thing Biden has been amongst the most pro-Israel politicians since he came to Washington (he has been a supporter of the state, not necessarily its leadership). I expect TFG to throw Israel under the bus once his butt buddy Bibi is unceremoniously booted from office, the MAGAdroids won't allow him to accept a Jewish state, considering their opinions of Jews in the first place.
I'll conclude by saying that, imo, any person who identifies as Jewish and supports a known Jew-hater like TFG has to be, by definition, self-hating.
fnord
He is also mischaracterizing Carter.
Reasonable people can disagree about US-Israeli relations, Biden's recent move to curtail certain weapons from Israel, or any other policy issue involving the US and Israel. But as a Jewish American Zionist who detests both Bibi and Trump, I find Cliff Asness's comment that: “My ‘Never Again’ is trumping my ‘Never Trump’ these days” to be both trite and dangerous. The triteness lies in the simplistic phrasing of his rationale for being willing to consider Trump, which is nothing more than providing a permission structure for other wealthy Republican Jews (who want the tax breaks and lower regulation that Trump promises to them but don't want to admit it out loud) to justify their support of Trump. The danger lies in what they are really saying: i.e., there are issues more important to them than the irrefutable facts that Trump participated in the false electors schemes intended to subvert the lawful transfer of power after Biden's election, and Trump utterly failed to execute his duties as Commander in Chief on January 6th, as he did nothing for hours while the US Capitol was attacked. To take that position is to deny everything the US has enabled people like Asness to accomplish: wealth, power and the like, and it disgusts me.
Most Jews I know are pretty nuanced on this topic. They also aren't fans of Bibi or the extreme Israeli right.
Yes, my husband and his family plus several friends are Jewish and are Biden supporters.
Trump is transactional. Saudi Arabia has already given his son in law $2 billion and I am sure there is a lot more money to be had. Trump is for sale to highest bider. If American Jewish interests think they can rely on Trump to be more favorable to Israel than President Biden; then, I'd say it is a gamble. Trump is not a man of his word on anything. Trust is not in his vocabulary.
American Jews overwhelmingly vote Democratic. Despite dismay over recent announcements, it isn't going to make one bit of difference come November. Biden has shown us where he stands. We stand with Biden.
I wish I shared your confidence in the Jewish Democratic vote. It won't matter in NY or CA, where Biden will easily win. But there are +400,000 Jewish voters in PA, +140,000 in GA, +120,000 in AZ, +85,000 in MI and almost 80,000 in NV. A small shift in Jewish Democratic voting in these states can make the difference between victory and defeat for Biden in November, given how tight these races were in 2020. It worries me.
American Jews are mostly Democrats. A lot of big Jewish donors have been Republicans. This has always been true. I’ve never known whether they’re soulless morons who think evangelicals really like them or just focused on tax cuts.
It’s nice that Trump will have someone to pay his legal fees, because that’s where the money is going. If campaign money matters, he will never touch Biden financially.
Bibi is נָבָל, an evil, corrupt
man and that’s why rich Republican Jews support him. Camel. Needle eye. And so on. He’s their only hope to buy their way in.
None of this is new. We Jews in red states continue to inveigh against these people and envy those in blue states. “Never again” doesn’t mean what they think it does. In today’s world at least some of them would fund the Nazis.