JVL: "You may have noticed that some people have been unhappy that The Bulwark has been pursuing this conversation about Biden over the last week. I understand the feeling. Biden is a good man who has been a good president. He deserves better than the situation in which fate has placed him.
JVL: "You may have noticed that some people have been unhappy that The Bulwark has been pursuing this conversation about Biden over the last week. I understand the feeling. Biden is a good man who has been a good president. He deserves better than the situation in which fate has placed him.
"But for all my admiration of Biden, this moment is bigger than him. And because he is a patriot, I am certain he realizes understands that truth. The people who admire Biden owe him the loyalty of their candor. And by the way, that’s the kind of loyalty Biden wants: He never asked for a cult."
Probably the most moving statement I've read regarding our current predicament.
It remains the weirdest damn thing that The Bulwark and The Pod Save crew are linking arms and walking off the same cliff ("Biden might have to step down") for the same reason (the good of the country), without any whiff of bad faith or concern trolling. Like, this is just the Correct Position, and the connecting thread isn't any policy, it's just patriotism.
Anyway this would have blown my mind in 2015, but here we are. The sentiment in the parent post is 100% correct.
Just because you support Biden and want him to remain in the race doesn’t make you a cult member. It’s about weighing the damn odds. It’s condescending to categorize in such a way.
I don't think that's what JVL meant. We would be a cult if we all blindly coalesced around Biden and demanded fealty. We haven't. The people who still support Biden are just one side of the conversation right now, and aren't any more of a cult than those who want to move on.
Perhaps, but to some extent that's kind of the nature of arguing for a change in the status quo. The people who want to maintain it are going to run the gamut of respectfully disagreeing to being pissed at the change advocates for even having the discussion. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between the two, but that variation is what keeps us from being a cult.
At any rate, JVL is clearly sympathetic to the Biden stayers. I don't think he was saying that they were a cult, only that at some point things will likely progress to the point where insisting on supporting him against all good sense would be a cult-like way of thinking.
~"The poll also finds Vice President Kamala Harris within striking distance of Trump in a hypothetical matchup: 47% of registered voters support Trump, 45% Harris, a result within the margin of error that suggests there is no clear leader under such a scenario. Harris’ slightly stronger showing against Trump rests at least in part on broader support from women (50% of female voters back Harris over Trump vs. 44% for Biden against Trump) and independents (43% Harris vs. 34% Biden)."~
I'm good with the discussion, but only if more thought is brought to it than "Biden must step down." JVL has been doing that. Others are doing it more now
My only other hope is that the terms "gaslighting" and "bedwetting" can be retired
It's lazy *thinking*. It's the easy way out; to assign a derisive moniker to someone or something we don't like without having to honestly explore something at the price of our comfort.
My issue isn't the conversation it is that the discussion is a DISTRACTION from more important topics like the Imperial SCOTUS and Project 2025. None of us have any say in the step down or stay decision but as long as we're divided, Trump wins. We need to focus our energy where it matters.
The bottom line is that right now (as I'm typing this) Biden still is the nominee. If and when that changes, I'll adjust to supporting his replacement. But spinning our wheels and knocking heads is not helping the situation at all. Stop talking about Biden stepping down and maybe talk about the convicted felon, malignant narcissist, pathological liar who is ahead in the polls.
Thank you, Theresa, for this sane assessment of where we are. I’m sorry for the panicked Dems who in fact are destructive to the party itself.
When that poor excuse for a debate began I asked myself how can these two CNN monitors sit there and seriously face a convicted felon as a presidential candidate. I never watched CNN and as a result of these pathetic representatives I never will.
If the people we need to vote in order to win were exclusively motivated by those issues, like we are, then it would matter if Biden was even ambulatory. Those things that you mention are very important, but we have to convince the voters who don’t pay attention or care about those issues. If the issue was simply convincing people that Trump was dangerous, then I’d agree. They’ve seen him for 8 years and if they’re not convinced by now then I doubt we can do it by November. One thing we can control is nominating a younger more vigorous candidate. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t, but screaming about Row v Wade and presidential immunity is not working with this particular group.
You are right that those are the important topics. But the ideology needs to be in power to effectual a plan for those very things you are concerned about. We can not address those issues if Biden loses either his acuity or the election. The moderates are not activated by what they are seeing and NEED a reason to show up. This conversation is not a sideshow. It is the show.
This needs to be talked about because it is about beating Trump. If Biden can’t do it he needs to step aside and that is priority 1,2, and 3,m; everything else flows from beating MAGA so questions about Biden are the first order of the day. An effective nominee could be out there running against Trump and rogue SCOTUS, the fact that Biden isn’t barnstorming on these topics daily across the country says a heck of a lot.
"the fact that Biden isn’t barnstorming on these topics daily across the country says a heck of a lot."
Right? A short, solemn speech-by-teleprompter is all we've heard since Monday. Given his need to be seen vigorously defending democracy and campaigning against Trump, the fact that he's still not doing these things is exacerbating the problem. This isn't going away. It will only get worse, I fear, until he steps aside.
I think I have a say. I'm a lifelong Democrat and donor. The candidate who's nominated - and Biden is the presumptive nominee until he's nominated at the convention by the delegates - represents the Democratic Party. Both my Senator and Representative are Democrats and will hear from me and all the members of the party.
Sure. I would vote for the GHOST of Joe Biden (or a small child, or a bag of hammers, or a pile of excrement) over Trump 15/10 times. But we also have a responsibility to field a) someone who can do the job for the full term (I think the chances that Joe can are very low) and b) someone who can beat Trump (today, not in the past). I 1000% "vote blue no matter who," but part of what defines decent people is trying to make good choices, even when it's really hard. IF he's the candidate, I will work like hell to elect him. But first we need to determine whether he SHOULD be that candidate. Realism =/= bedwetting.
JVL: "You may have noticed that some people have been unhappy that The Bulwark has been pursuing this conversation about Biden over the last week. I understand the feeling. Biden is a good man who has been a good president. He deserves better than the situation in which fate has placed him.
"But for all my admiration of Biden, this moment is bigger than him. And because he is a patriot, I am certain he realizes understands that truth. The people who admire Biden owe him the loyalty of their candor. And by the way, that’s the kind of loyalty Biden wants: He never asked for a cult."
Probably the most moving statement I've read regarding our current predicament.
For real. I did not make it out of item 1. with dry eyes and that is a testament to both Joe Biden and JVL.
I agree. Thank you JVL
It remains the weirdest damn thing that The Bulwark and The Pod Save crew are linking arms and walking off the same cliff ("Biden might have to step down") for the same reason (the good of the country), without any whiff of bad faith or concern trolling. Like, this is just the Correct Position, and the connecting thread isn't any policy, it's just patriotism.
Anyway this would have blown my mind in 2015, but here we are. The sentiment in the parent post is 100% correct.
It really is weird. I credit Biden for being such a good potus that he brought people together.
Just because you support Biden and want him to remain in the race doesn’t make you a cult member. It’s about weighing the damn odds. It’s condescending to categorize in such a way.
I don't think that's what JVL meant. We would be a cult if we all blindly coalesced around Biden and demanded fealty. We haven't. The people who still support Biden are just one side of the conversation right now, and aren't any more of a cult than those who want to move on.
There are some people lashing out at the conversation itself, at anyone entertaining the idea of moving forward without Biden as nominee.
Perhaps, but to some extent that's kind of the nature of arguing for a change in the status quo. The people who want to maintain it are going to run the gamut of respectfully disagreeing to being pissed at the change advocates for even having the discussion. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between the two, but that variation is what keeps us from being a cult.
At any rate, JVL is clearly sympathetic to the Biden stayers. I don't think he was saying that they were a cult, only that at some point things will likely progress to the point where insisting on supporting him against all good sense would be a cult-like way of thinking.
The odds are not that bad!
~"The poll also finds Vice President Kamala Harris within striking distance of Trump in a hypothetical matchup: 47% of registered voters support Trump, 45% Harris, a result within the margin of error that suggests there is no clear leader under such a scenario. Harris’ slightly stronger showing against Trump rests at least in part on broader support from women (50% of female voters back Harris over Trump vs. 44% for Biden against Trump) and independents (43% Harris vs. 34% Biden)."~
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/07/02/politics/cnn-poll-post-debate
I'm good with the discussion, but only if more thought is brought to it than "Biden must step down." JVL has been doing that. Others are doing it more now
My only other hope is that the terms "gaslighting" and "bedwetting" can be retired
Amen on the gaslighting and bedwetting. They are overused and it’s lazy writing.
It's lazy *thinking*. It's the easy way out; to assign a derisive moniker to someone or something we don't like without having to honestly explore something at the price of our comfort.
My issue isn't the conversation it is that the discussion is a DISTRACTION from more important topics like the Imperial SCOTUS and Project 2025. None of us have any say in the step down or stay decision but as long as we're divided, Trump wins. We need to focus our energy where it matters.
The bottom line is that right now (as I'm typing this) Biden still is the nominee. If and when that changes, I'll adjust to supporting his replacement. But spinning our wheels and knocking heads is not helping the situation at all. Stop talking about Biden stepping down and maybe talk about the convicted felon, malignant narcissist, pathological liar who is ahead in the polls.
Thank you, Theresa, for this sane assessment of where we are. I’m sorry for the panicked Dems who in fact are destructive to the party itself.
When that poor excuse for a debate began I asked myself how can these two CNN monitors sit there and seriously face a convicted felon as a presidential candidate. I never watched CNN and as a result of these pathetic representatives I never will.
If the people we need to vote in order to win were exclusively motivated by those issues, like we are, then it would matter if Biden was even ambulatory. Those things that you mention are very important, but we have to convince the voters who don’t pay attention or care about those issues. If the issue was simply convincing people that Trump was dangerous, then I’d agree. They’ve seen him for 8 years and if they’re not convinced by now then I doubt we can do it by November. One thing we can control is nominating a younger more vigorous candidate. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t, but screaming about Row v Wade and presidential immunity is not working with this particular group.
You are right that those are the important topics. But the ideology needs to be in power to effectual a plan for those very things you are concerned about. We can not address those issues if Biden loses either his acuity or the election. The moderates are not activated by what they are seeing and NEED a reason to show up. This conversation is not a sideshow. It is the show.
This needs to be talked about because it is about beating Trump. If Biden can’t do it he needs to step aside and that is priority 1,2, and 3,m; everything else flows from beating MAGA so questions about Biden are the first order of the day. An effective nominee could be out there running against Trump and rogue SCOTUS, the fact that Biden isn’t barnstorming on these topics daily across the country says a heck of a lot.
"the fact that Biden isn’t barnstorming on these topics daily across the country says a heck of a lot."
Right? A short, solemn speech-by-teleprompter is all we've heard since Monday. Given his need to be seen vigorously defending democracy and campaigning against Trump, the fact that he's still not doing these things is exacerbating the problem. This isn't going away. It will only get worse, I fear, until he steps aside.
I think I have a say. I'm a lifelong Democrat and donor. The candidate who's nominated - and Biden is the presumptive nominee until he's nominated at the convention by the delegates - represents the Democratic Party. Both my Senator and Representative are Democrats and will hear from me and all the members of the party.
I think we are capable of both topics at once.
Well I would actually like to see both being discussed. Instead it’s Biden is OLD 24/7.
I feel like I have two item on Trump and scotus just today? And like I do both topics pretty much every day for the last week?
Well, for me anti-Trump means anti-Trump and I'm going to pull the lever for the Democratic candidate. Every other concern pales in comparison.
Sure. I would vote for the GHOST of Joe Biden (or a small child, or a bag of hammers, or a pile of excrement) over Trump 15/10 times. But we also have a responsibility to field a) someone who can do the job for the full term (I think the chances that Joe can are very low) and b) someone who can beat Trump (today, not in the past). I 1000% "vote blue no matter who," but part of what defines decent people is trying to make good choices, even when it's really hard. IF he's the candidate, I will work like hell to elect him. But first we need to determine whether he SHOULD be that candidate. Realism =/= bedwetting.