A fundamental dynamic in right-wing media is: "The MSM are lying to you! We have the real truth here!"
It's an enticing message. Believing oneself to have found a source of hidden knowledge is addictive. And it's not irrational per se to think that some stories that deserve to be told are not being reported by most media outlets.
When Trump started his first campaign, I saw a lot of references to "media lies about Trump," but what struck me was the readiness of right-wing media to portray him as radically different from the way he presented himself in public - not to mention the reported history of his many scams and cruelties. According to Trumpist media, I should not believe what my own ears and eyes tell me when I am directly observing Trump, but instead trust the self-appointed enunciators of the Real Truth.
It's the apotheosis of contrarianism as fundamental doctrine, and MAGA-world is deeply infected with it. They thrive on it, So they insist that the most glaringly obvious facts about Trump - aggressive selfishness, casual cruelty, contempt for rules, lack of conscience, absence of empathy, admiration for ruthless dictators - are merely "lies about Trump," or stories invented to justify an irrational "hate."
And the more evidence is presented to demonstrate the truth of the alleged "lies about Trump," the more deeply the MAGAs dig in, claiming it shows how vast and sinister are the forces they're up against, and feeling themselves to be heroic for rejecting what they have chosen to disbelieve.
Joe Rogan might have simply decided that he was a loyal foot soldier on Team Trump and that any interview of Kamala would help her. In fact, I strongly suspect that’s exactly what happened, the last few days.
Kamala and her team dearly want her to “go on Rogan!!”, trust me. If she doesn’t, it won’t be because *they* chose not to.
If he's blocking them out, they should openly request in public to receive equal time with Trump. This would leave no doubt as to whether Rogan's being a stooge.
One minute ago, at 1:01 pm EDT, Kamala Harris concluded a televised statement emphasizing Gen. John Kelly's statements in the NY Times and Atlantic magazine interviews. It was broadcast in full on MSNBC and is sure to be prominent in today's news cycle. Bill, your wish is answered. The Vice President comes through for us again!
To the extent they bother to defend this (rather than just crying "fake news") I predict MAGA will coalesce around painting Kelly as a rigid establishmentarian who doesn't really "get" Trump's mode of "shaking things up" and "thinking outside the box" and "questioning sacred cows," causing him to distort Trump's bold thought experiments into some "pro-Nazi" message (imagine!). Kelly will then be chided for breaking Trump's confidence and "airing dirty laundry." The president, we'll be told, must have the freedom to explore unorthodox/controversial ideas in private without getting tattled on. 🙄
TIL that when Trump entered the presidency, he didn't know that Congress had the power to override a presidential veto.
Just one more example of the deep ignorance of the man that millions of people - some of them not actually stupid - have credited with the special wisdom and understanding to "save America."
Trump doesn't care about abortion. He cares about the issue going away. Susan B. Anthony grinding her teeth doesn't bother his molars.
What young women should worry about is him hitting the links and leaving it in Vance's hands. He, Mike Johnson and those types would ban abortion yesterday and start working on contraception limits, and outright bans.
People use "bans" and it's not clear what they mean. Virtually every country has gestational limits on abortion. Most have, by their legislature, drawn the line at 15 weeks. Is that a "ban." Probably 95% of abortions happen in the first 15 weeks.
Trump, when he talks about America or his “many people” is actually only talking about white, mainly male, Christians. No one else exists—why he is that one-eyed man in the land of the blind.
OK...I give up. I don't care who they line up for their "dissing trump" message....how many they line up...and no matter how compelling the story...most MAGAs will vote for him anyway.
In my 8 years of posting on FoxNews, the ONLY time that I saw his supporters sort of turn on him is when he went forth with a budget that basically was bipartisan and increased the debt. They were saying stuff like "he's just like all the rest" and "he didn't change a thing".
Even 1/6 wasn't as bad...mostly because it happened without it initially being blamed on him so people could freely complain about it...without it being attributable to Trump. Once the Dems started saying things...then it became partisan and they instinctively began defending Trump...and 1/6 in the process.
MAGAs think he was very wrong to promote the Covid vaccines. Otherwise, their attitude is what I recall a fan saying in 2016: "There's nothing he could do that would make me stop supporting him."
I heard variations on that theme that were slightly qualified, e.g. "as long as he builds the wall." But in the end, Trumpers are a cult of unconditional hero-worship.
It’s funny (not in a haha way) about how quickly the German general conversation in MAGA land has gone from “Trump didn’t say that biased media blah blah” to Fox News hosts saying “yeah but it it’s not that big of a deal he didn’t really mean Nazis”. It was predictable that this is the direction it would take, but the speed at which it happened was amazing.
Prepare for an onslaught of Republicans on cable TV calling Kelly a disgusting pig loser. Trump didn’t say Hitler and if he did he meant a different Hitler and if he meant Hitler so what and actually he has a point as Hitler did make the trains run on time and anyone who disagrees is a lunatic left enemy of the people. The only needle this will move is the one on my blood pressure monitor.
Regardless of who wins there are now two Americas: (1) a rural, religious, high school educated agricultural and factory working class one, and (2) the other an urban/suburban secular college educated professional knowledge-worker one. Of course there's overlap and some mixing of the two, but in a broad macro sense I think that's descriptive of where we are now. If the former wins the White House it's going to be emotionally devastating, catastrophic even, for those of us who live in the cities, not to mention the threat to our democracy. Personally I'm not looking forward to having Cletus and the bar stool bros and their crazy geezer leader and his entourage of Wafffen-SS lording it over me. But know one thing, the relatively small number of urban counties that will have voted for Kamala produce almost 70% of the country's GDP. Enjoy the culture, night life, affluence, and wealth that our blue enclaves afford us. And also enjoy the disappointment of the Trump supporters who place their hopes in Trump giving them a better life , only to find out that once more they've been conned.
Hasn’t the rural and urban divide existed since the Industrial Revolution? I think we’re seeing the result of new online media monetizing anger and resentments via engagement and attention. Media and political leaders on the right are taking advantage of people’s natural fear of rapid change.
Democrats need to build coalitions and you can’t do that by putting people down. You’re playing the same culture war game as Republicans - “they” hate you, “they” want to ruin your way of life.
Rural blue-collar people are a great deal more complex than that.
It is possible to support Harris and the ideals she stands for without indulging in cultural bias and putdowns.
The contempt and condescension of group #2 towards group #1 has played a large role in driving them towards Trump. It is not helping now. It accomplishes nothing and does a great deal of harm.
I'll say frankly that if, God forbid, the toxic and dysfunctional situation ever arose in which I would have to choose between those two groups, I would stand with group #1.
Could we please do this without putting down entire cultures and ways of life?
That is a completely false statement and I find it deeply offensive.
If you can't have the decency to avoid bigoted statements, at least have the intellectual depth, and the political competence, to distinguish between social/cultural groups and political movements (and within the latter, between the rank and file and the leadership). It is not much to ask.
This sort of attitude is driving people into the Trump camp.
Those are valid points Edward. I live in a small "city"--although as someone who has lived in major "real" cities, it doesn't seem like one--that is adamantly Republican. So, if I go full bore dystopian, I would envisage, if he wins, that life will continue much as it has. Our schools will teach watered-down Americentric history while also destroying our children's ability to write accurately and do math. Prices will remain the same except if the tariffs really ARE enacted. In which case we will only have about 10 different, more expensive, brands to choose from and none of them will be made outside of the US. We'll grumble but as long as gas is less than our current $3.50/gal, we'll still be able to fill up our tanks. Hopefully the e coli McDonald's stuff won't hit our city. We might see more military at our border 15 miles down the road but, hey, that will be good for local businesses, right? They'll need more housing but that's fine, Washington will lift any water restrictions so we'll have ten more years left before our aquifer is gone. Being in our 70s, hopefully we'll be dead by then. Whatever is going on in Washington won't make a difference to us unless our local Army Fort goes high alert (it's one of the Intelligence hubs) because the world is coming to an end. We'll know when the bomb hits, probably not long beforehand because Trump's cronies--maybe he will give control of the military to Musk--will be asleep at the switch, or have pressed the switch too early. But, no, life won't really change much for us.
For most of us daily life will go on, and that factors into my survival strategy in a Trump world. As a practical matter my life intersects with that of the government maybe once a year when I pay my taxes and every ten to fifteen years when I might receive a minor traffic citation. The rest of the time what goes on in DC doesn't affect me much. If they mess with SS and Medicare it will be a different story, but other than that, meh, and besides the stock market has been very, very good to me so even that is minimal. The short version is that if I narrow my focus to pretty much only what is within my immediate field of vision and ignore the chaos going on outside it, my life will go on just fine minus the anger and frustration I felt since Trump and the MAGAs arrived on the scene. So, a total disconnect from the news and politics equals peace and quiet.
Chris Sununu on CNN fails the test again. He is the absolute worst. What an embarrassment. (Of course my inside voice has much more colorful words to describe him)
Sununu, like a few others, have this arrogance of "Yah...I know what's going on with other side, but you guys (i.e. the left) are handling it all wrong".
So...apparently it's up to the Left to do it correctly because the GOP didn't? (Obviously)
It's not only misplaced arrogance, but he's playing both sides when we're in a race that might elect a complete Fascist?!! That's some pretty bold unapologetic behavior in my book.
Trump’s outreach to young voters reminds me of Bernie Sanders in 2016. The Bernie bros made a lot of noise but so many pundits were reminding people that they are very unreliable voters. I hope that unreliability sinks the Trump campaign.
To my untrained eye, it seems that Kamala is making more inroads with reliable voting blocs. I know who I would rather be on Election Day, time will tell if that’s the correct analysis.
Maybe the constant harping by Tim did the trick on John Kelly! Hopefully this breaks the dam for a select few others. I'm sure the Harris campaign will incorporate this.
A fundamental dynamic in right-wing media is: "The MSM are lying to you! We have the real truth here!"
It's an enticing message. Believing oneself to have found a source of hidden knowledge is addictive. And it's not irrational per se to think that some stories that deserve to be told are not being reported by most media outlets.
When Trump started his first campaign, I saw a lot of references to "media lies about Trump," but what struck me was the readiness of right-wing media to portray him as radically different from the way he presented himself in public - not to mention the reported history of his many scams and cruelties. According to Trumpist media, I should not believe what my own ears and eyes tell me when I am directly observing Trump, but instead trust the self-appointed enunciators of the Real Truth.
It's the apotheosis of contrarianism as fundamental doctrine, and MAGA-world is deeply infected with it. They thrive on it, So they insist that the most glaringly obvious facts about Trump - aggressive selfishness, casual cruelty, contempt for rules, lack of conscience, absence of empathy, admiration for ruthless dictators - are merely "lies about Trump," or stories invented to justify an irrational "hate."
And the more evidence is presented to demonstrate the truth of the alleged "lies about Trump," the more deeply the MAGAs dig in, claiming it shows how vast and sinister are the forces they're up against, and feeling themselves to be heroic for rejecting what they have chosen to disbelieve.
There is no good purpose for taking cheap shots at Biden. He is not running and he will be a private citizen in three months.
Regarding Rogan:
Joe Rogan might have simply decided that he was a loyal foot soldier on Team Trump and that any interview of Kamala would help her. In fact, I strongly suspect that’s exactly what happened, the last few days.
Kamala and her team dearly want her to “go on Rogan!!”, trust me. If she doesn’t, it won’t be because *they* chose not to.
If he's blocking them out, they should openly request in public to receive equal time with Trump. This would leave no doubt as to whether Rogan's being a stooge.
Trumps horrific behavior around vets transcends generations. This was my Memorial Day Tribute to what Trump is all about.
https://open.substack.com/pub/macro4micro/p/memorial-day-ponderings-for-donny?r=or4an&utm_medium=ios
One minute ago, at 1:01 pm EDT, Kamala Harris concluded a televised statement emphasizing Gen. John Kelly's statements in the NY Times and Atlantic magazine interviews. It was broadcast in full on MSNBC and is sure to be prominent in today's news cycle. Bill, your wish is answered. The Vice President comes through for us again!
To the extent they bother to defend this (rather than just crying "fake news") I predict MAGA will coalesce around painting Kelly as a rigid establishmentarian who doesn't really "get" Trump's mode of "shaking things up" and "thinking outside the box" and "questioning sacred cows," causing him to distort Trump's bold thought experiments into some "pro-Nazi" message (imagine!). Kelly will then be chided for breaking Trump's confidence and "airing dirty laundry." The president, we'll be told, must have the freedom to explore unorthodox/controversial ideas in private without getting tattled on. 🙄
TIL that when Trump entered the presidency, he didn't know that Congress had the power to override a presidential veto.
Just one more example of the deep ignorance of the man that millions of people - some of them not actually stupid - have credited with the special wisdom and understanding to "save America."
Trump doesn't care about abortion. He cares about the issue going away. Susan B. Anthony grinding her teeth doesn't bother his molars.
What young women should worry about is him hitting the links and leaving it in Vance's hands. He, Mike Johnson and those types would ban abortion yesterday and start working on contraception limits, and outright bans.
People use "bans" and it's not clear what they mean. Virtually every country has gestational limits on abortion. Most have, by their legislature, drawn the line at 15 weeks. Is that a "ban." Probably 95% of abortions happen in the first 15 weeks.
Mike Johnson? I'd bet zero weeks.
Trump, when he talks about America or his “many people” is actually only talking about white, mainly male, Christians. No one else exists—why he is that one-eyed man in the land of the blind.
OK...I give up. I don't care who they line up for their "dissing trump" message....how many they line up...and no matter how compelling the story...most MAGAs will vote for him anyway.
In my 8 years of posting on FoxNews, the ONLY time that I saw his supporters sort of turn on him is when he went forth with a budget that basically was bipartisan and increased the debt. They were saying stuff like "he's just like all the rest" and "he didn't change a thing".
Even 1/6 wasn't as bad...mostly because it happened without it initially being blamed on him so people could freely complain about it...without it being attributable to Trump. Once the Dems started saying things...then it became partisan and they instinctively began defending Trump...and 1/6 in the process.
MAGAs think he was very wrong to promote the Covid vaccines. Otherwise, their attitude is what I recall a fan saying in 2016: "There's nothing he could do that would make me stop supporting him."
I heard variations on that theme that were slightly qualified, e.g. "as long as he builds the wall." But in the end, Trumpers are a cult of unconditional hero-worship.
It’s funny (not in a haha way) about how quickly the German general conversation in MAGA land has gone from “Trump didn’t say that biased media blah blah” to Fox News hosts saying “yeah but it it’s not that big of a deal he didn’t really mean Nazis”. It was predictable that this is the direction it would take, but the speed at which it happened was amazing.
Yep...just like the Dems are completely overblowing 1/6. It was a march that got a little out of hand.
Prepare for an onslaught of Republicans on cable TV calling Kelly a disgusting pig loser. Trump didn’t say Hitler and if he did he meant a different Hitler and if he meant Hitler so what and actually he has a point as Hitler did make the trains run on time and anyone who disagrees is a lunatic left enemy of the people. The only needle this will move is the one on my blood pressure monitor.
Everyone who is committed to defending Trump must inevitably take the position that honorable people are their enemies.
Regardless of who wins there are now two Americas: (1) a rural, religious, high school educated agricultural and factory working class one, and (2) the other an urban/suburban secular college educated professional knowledge-worker one. Of course there's overlap and some mixing of the two, but in a broad macro sense I think that's descriptive of where we are now. If the former wins the White House it's going to be emotionally devastating, catastrophic even, for those of us who live in the cities, not to mention the threat to our democracy. Personally I'm not looking forward to having Cletus and the bar stool bros and their crazy geezer leader and his entourage of Wafffen-SS lording it over me. But know one thing, the relatively small number of urban counties that will have voted for Kamala produce almost 70% of the country's GDP. Enjoy the culture, night life, affluence, and wealth that our blue enclaves afford us. And also enjoy the disappointment of the Trump supporters who place their hopes in Trump giving them a better life , only to find out that once more they've been conned.
Hasn’t the rural and urban divide existed since the Industrial Revolution? I think we’re seeing the result of new online media monetizing anger and resentments via engagement and attention. Media and political leaders on the right are taking advantage of people’s natural fear of rapid change.
Democrats need to build coalitions and you can’t do that by putting people down. You’re playing the same culture war game as Republicans - “they” hate you, “they” want to ruin your way of life.
Here's the freaking irony: DFL...Democratic Farmer-Labor party.
What the hell happened ?
Rural blue-collar people are a great deal more complex than that.
It is possible to support Harris and the ideals she stands for without indulging in cultural bias and putdowns.
The contempt and condescension of group #2 towards group #1 has played a large role in driving them towards Trump. It is not helping now. It accomplishes nothing and does a great deal of harm.
I'll say frankly that if, God forbid, the toxic and dysfunctional situation ever arose in which I would have to choose between those two groups, I would stand with group #1.
Could we please do this without putting down entire cultures and ways of life?
This election you are having to pick between (1) and (2). Vote your conscience.
That is a completely false statement and I find it deeply offensive.
If you can't have the decency to avoid bigoted statements, at least have the intellectual depth, and the political competence, to distinguish between social/cultural groups and political movements (and within the latter, between the rank and file and the leadership). It is not much to ask.
This sort of attitude is driving people into the Trump camp.
And it is not what the Harris camp stands for.
Those are valid points Edward. I live in a small "city"--although as someone who has lived in major "real" cities, it doesn't seem like one--that is adamantly Republican. So, if I go full bore dystopian, I would envisage, if he wins, that life will continue much as it has. Our schools will teach watered-down Americentric history while also destroying our children's ability to write accurately and do math. Prices will remain the same except if the tariffs really ARE enacted. In which case we will only have about 10 different, more expensive, brands to choose from and none of them will be made outside of the US. We'll grumble but as long as gas is less than our current $3.50/gal, we'll still be able to fill up our tanks. Hopefully the e coli McDonald's stuff won't hit our city. We might see more military at our border 15 miles down the road but, hey, that will be good for local businesses, right? They'll need more housing but that's fine, Washington will lift any water restrictions so we'll have ten more years left before our aquifer is gone. Being in our 70s, hopefully we'll be dead by then. Whatever is going on in Washington won't make a difference to us unless our local Army Fort goes high alert (it's one of the Intelligence hubs) because the world is coming to an end. We'll know when the bomb hits, probably not long beforehand because Trump's cronies--maybe he will give control of the military to Musk--will be asleep at the switch, or have pressed the switch too early. But, no, life won't really change much for us.
For most of us daily life will go on, and that factors into my survival strategy in a Trump world. As a practical matter my life intersects with that of the government maybe once a year when I pay my taxes and every ten to fifteen years when I might receive a minor traffic citation. The rest of the time what goes on in DC doesn't affect me much. If they mess with SS and Medicare it will be a different story, but other than that, meh, and besides the stock market has been very, very good to me so even that is minimal. The short version is that if I narrow my focus to pretty much only what is within my immediate field of vision and ignore the chaos going on outside it, my life will go on just fine minus the anger and frustration I felt since Trump and the MAGAs arrived on the scene. So, a total disconnect from the news and politics equals peace and quiet.
Kinda like the good Germans.
Yup! This!
Chris Sununu on CNN fails the test again. He is the absolute worst. What an embarrassment. (Of course my inside voice has much more colorful words to describe him)
Sununu is quite capable of going full Vance or full Gabbard. He just hasn't calculated that that is the best course for him yet.
Sununu, like a few others, have this arrogance of "Yah...I know what's going on with other side, but you guys (i.e. the left) are handling it all wrong".
So...apparently it's up to the Left to do it correctly because the GOP didn't? (Obviously)
It's not only misplaced arrogance, but he's playing both sides when we're in a race that might elect a complete Fascist?!! That's some pretty bold unapologetic behavior in my book.
Trump’s outreach to young voters reminds me of Bernie Sanders in 2016. The Bernie bros made a lot of noise but so many pundits were reminding people that they are very unreliable voters. I hope that unreliability sinks the Trump campaign.
To my untrained eye, it seems that Kamala is making more inroads with reliable voting blocs. I know who I would rather be on Election Day, time will tell if that’s the correct analysis.
Maybe the constant harping by Tim did the trick on John Kelly! Hopefully this breaks the dam for a select few others. I'm sure the Harris campaign will incorporate this.