This is what happens when there is no sentencing passed for a criminal with 34 indictments. It essentially becomes his get-out-of-jail-free card. From there, they're allowing him to reign chaos on every level of our democracy. To virtually destroy this country, eradicate our Constitution, and take away our rights. Speaking strictly for myself, as a veteran, this would become a major poke in the eye of all our military who made the ultimate sacrifice for absolutely nothing. I was very fortunate to not have lost a son or daughter like other parents who have lost their child. I was very fortunate that I didn't lose my (now ex) husband (USAF Ret. 0-5) during his time in the cockpit. I was very fortunate that nothing happened to me when I deployed to the ME with my entire squadron because of a skirmish with Iran that nearly took us to war, and I mean within a hair's breadth. Unfortunately, just days prior to my deployment, eight US servicemen were lost because of a downed helicopter and transport plane shot down during an attempt to rescue the 66 embassy hostages. Sacrifice! To keep this country free of totalitarianism and dictators. To keep our democracy strong and just, as our forefathers wanted.
Every last man and woman who fought and lost their lives since the Revolutionary War will have been for nothing, if the likes of Trump is not held accountable for his crimes. Is allowed to think the rule of law doesn't apply to him. Is allowed to destroy our elections process by not allowing certification of who the clear winner is or will be. I'm barely hanging on to a shred of my usually optimistic views, praying that this is nothing more than just a whisper in the wind of what's to come. I'm counting on our Justice system in Washington, D.C. to do what's RIGHT. Here's to you, Jack Smith, for your selfless works to make that happen.
This is fear porn. How EXACTLY does a challenger with no evidence of any fraud be declared the winner?? By whom? The courts? This is a silly article. Explain exactly how that happens, in realistic detail.
Glenn, you’d be surprised how easy it would be to create delay. If there is enough delay and confusion, there is a backup plan for presidential elections: Having the election decided in the House of Representatives, with each state getting one vote. If an election gets thrown into the House of Representatives, because of the number of states whose Republican members of Congress outnumber Democrats in their delegation, the Republicans win.
You apparently missed every article, op Ed, and pundit discussion bearing on this issue since 1/6/2020.
You think certification of votes is a guarantee, including in red state legislatures?
If Pence had not certified the 2020 election results, there is a fair chance that would have left the election decision to reps at the state level. Who could have easily have voted Trump in. Game. Set. Match.
I want one of the Big Lie chuckleheads to answer one simple question for me: Did the 100+ gop poll watchers in every district, across every county, and across several states simply roll over and allow the dem poll watchers to steal votes from the guy they wanted to win? And then remain silent about it?
These a**holes are (hopefully) dead enders and at some point in the future 12-20 years the USA will have a sane center-right party again. Where are the Dwight Eisenhower and Gerald Ford types the GOP need?
"...at some point in the future 12-20 years..." HOW do we get from here to there w/o coming apart at the seams, Given our -- inherently FRAGILE! -- "structure" needing at last a modicum of "Good Will" to work...
I agree. I'm not sure it will happen that soon but I would like to see it before I leave this mortal coil (I'm 70). I don't even have to see the end of MAGA, just the beginning of the end.
I think it's actually worse than what A.B. says in this article. Under the Constitution, state legislatures get to decide how electoral are selected. For about 150 years now, state legislatures have passed laws giving that authority to the voters. There are some court cases that say that once the election is held, a state legislature can't take back that authority, i.e. they can't pass a bill after the election overriding the voters' wishes. But those precedents could be overturned. After all, the Constitution pretty clearly says the state legislature gets to decide and it doesn't say they can't take back that authority after the election.
I don't know how to feel about this, except that I refuse to give up. If the elections results show Kamala won and she will lose because of certifications, then why bother? This possibility as a done deal is dangerous, it will bring us back to the doom and gloom before Kamala. It is a possibility, they will try, but it is not a done deal. We don't know about the outcome. There are many options there to counteract this steal effort by Republicans. Besides, Biden will still be president for almost three months after the election. I refuse, I repeat to think that everything is lost before it is.
Jeannette, very few serious people believe that this non-certification nonsense has a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding. I suspect it is getting some media attention mostly because of its absurdity and the light it sheds on today's ludicrous GOP. A few moment's reflection will restore your conviction that our great country's future could never be toppled by 70 zealots attempting such a pathetic ruse. Yes, the Democrats may well have to rely on our legal system to deal with this nonsense, but the system won't be blown down by such a slight breeze.
While I hope you're right, no reasonable person thought Roe would be overturned or that the president has pretty much complete immunity either but here we are.
Many of the objections to the 2020 election results were based on voting safeguards put in place due to Covid. For example mail ballots, etc. initiated in states by governors or other officials rather than legislatures. That was the argument by my Republican congressman who voted against certification of the election. With no Covid or unusual circumstances I'm not sure what basis there would be to claim fraud in 2024.
In 2020, they claimed that dead people voted. They claimed illegals voted. They claimed people voted multiple times. They claimed ballots made from ballot were shipped in from China. They claimed Venezuela hacked the Dominion Voting Machines. None of these claims had any evidence to support them. So, I'm pretty sure they won't have any problem coming up with a basis to challenge the election.
My point was that some in Congress believed in irregularities due to new voting safeguards in place due to Covid. These were generally not the fringe Maga politicians. Though possibly all Republicans have no credibility.
There is no bar low enough to imagine what Trump or his acolytes would do. I can imagine local boards refusing to certify and even destroying ballots because they believe the ballots were fake. If there are no ballots do you start over or does the state legislature step in to declare a winner? Let’s work together to preserve our democracy. Elections only work because the loser concedes.
I'm an attorney, believe in our legal system, and I am nowhere near as optimistic as you are.
State judges can be very ambitious and very partisan, maybe more than federal judges. I could see a judge wanting to please Trump to possibly get a federal judicial appointment down the road.
I have to assume that the Democrats will be ready to instantly challenge this non-certification nonsense when it occurs with carefully crafted court filings. Rather than repeatedly reading how the non-certifications will cause "chaos" and a "constitutional crisis," I'd love to read about how this will actually play out in all likelihood. I don't believe our system would crack under this idiotic form of pressure, but I can imagine an unhealthy delay as the courts restore order.
I’m wondering if the fake electors in Arizona recently cooperating and others being charged will make any of the corrupt electors think twice about doing the same? Thoughts?
They won't have to do that scheme this time. Local officials can throw the election into turmoil by refusing certification. Or state legislatures could override the popular vote in their state. None of these would be crimes. Wouldn't be right, or ethical, or moral, but a crime? No.
This is what happens when there is no sentencing passed for a criminal with 34 indictments. It essentially becomes his get-out-of-jail-free card. From there, they're allowing him to reign chaos on every level of our democracy. To virtually destroy this country, eradicate our Constitution, and take away our rights. Speaking strictly for myself, as a veteran, this would become a major poke in the eye of all our military who made the ultimate sacrifice for absolutely nothing. I was very fortunate to not have lost a son or daughter like other parents who have lost their child. I was very fortunate that I didn't lose my (now ex) husband (USAF Ret. 0-5) during his time in the cockpit. I was very fortunate that nothing happened to me when I deployed to the ME with my entire squadron because of a skirmish with Iran that nearly took us to war, and I mean within a hair's breadth. Unfortunately, just days prior to my deployment, eight US servicemen were lost because of a downed helicopter and transport plane shot down during an attempt to rescue the 66 embassy hostages. Sacrifice! To keep this country free of totalitarianism and dictators. To keep our democracy strong and just, as our forefathers wanted.
Every last man and woman who fought and lost their lives since the Revolutionary War will have been for nothing, if the likes of Trump is not held accountable for his crimes. Is allowed to think the rule of law doesn't apply to him. Is allowed to destroy our elections process by not allowing certification of who the clear winner is or will be. I'm barely hanging on to a shred of my usually optimistic views, praying that this is nothing more than just a whisper in the wind of what's to come. I'm counting on our Justice system in Washington, D.C. to do what's RIGHT. Here's to you, Jack Smith, for your selfless works to make that happen.
This is fear porn. How EXACTLY does a challenger with no evidence of any fraud be declared the winner?? By whom? The courts? This is a silly article. Explain exactly how that happens, in realistic detail.
Glenn, you’d be surprised how easy it would be to create delay. If there is enough delay and confusion, there is a backup plan for presidential elections: Having the election decided in the House of Representatives, with each state getting one vote. If an election gets thrown into the House of Representatives, because of the number of states whose Republican members of Congress outnumber Democrats in their delegation, the Republicans win.
You apparently missed every article, op Ed, and pundit discussion bearing on this issue since 1/6/2020.
You think certification of votes is a guarantee, including in red state legislatures?
If Pence had not certified the 2020 election results, there is a fair chance that would have left the election decision to reps at the state level. Who could have easily have voted Trump in. Game. Set. Match.
You are exactly right AB. The Court will not save us because five of the nine Justices are firmly in Trump’s pocket.
I want one of the Big Lie chuckleheads to answer one simple question for me: Did the 100+ gop poll watchers in every district, across every county, and across several states simply roll over and allow the dem poll watchers to steal votes from the guy they wanted to win? And then remain silent about it?
this makes me sick to my stomach. the next 6 months are going to be scary...
These a**holes are (hopefully) dead enders and at some point in the future 12-20 years the USA will have a sane center-right party again. Where are the Dwight Eisenhower and Gerald Ford types the GOP need?
"...at some point in the future 12-20 years..." HOW do we get from here to there w/o coming apart at the seams, Given our -- inherently FRAGILE! -- "structure" needing at last a modicum of "Good Will" to work...
I agree. I'm not sure it will happen that soon but I would like to see it before I leave this mortal coil (I'm 70). I don't even have to see the end of MAGA, just the beginning of the end.
I think it's actually worse than what A.B. says in this article. Under the Constitution, state legislatures get to decide how electoral are selected. For about 150 years now, state legislatures have passed laws giving that authority to the voters. There are some court cases that say that once the election is held, a state legislature can't take back that authority, i.e. they can't pass a bill after the election overriding the voters' wishes. But those precedents could be overturned. After all, the Constitution pretty clearly says the state legislature gets to decide and it doesn't say they can't take back that authority after the election.
I don't know how to feel about this, except that I refuse to give up. If the elections results show Kamala won and she will lose because of certifications, then why bother? This possibility as a done deal is dangerous, it will bring us back to the doom and gloom before Kamala. It is a possibility, they will try, but it is not a done deal. We don't know about the outcome. There are many options there to counteract this steal effort by Republicans. Besides, Biden will still be president for almost three months after the election. I refuse, I repeat to think that everything is lost before it is.
Presidents have no control over how votes are counted at the state and local level.
Jeannette, very few serious people believe that this non-certification nonsense has a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding. I suspect it is getting some media attention mostly because of its absurdity and the light it sheds on today's ludicrous GOP. A few moment's reflection will restore your conviction that our great country's future could never be toppled by 70 zealots attempting such a pathetic ruse. Yes, the Democrats may well have to rely on our legal system to deal with this nonsense, but the system won't be blown down by such a slight breeze.
While I hope you're right, no reasonable person thought Roe would be overturned or that the president has pretty much complete immunity either but here we are.
This is my biggest most certain fear. So this article helps in bringing ut to light and showing what is being dine to coubter it. Thank you.
Many of the objections to the 2020 election results were based on voting safeguards put in place due to Covid. For example mail ballots, etc. initiated in states by governors or other officials rather than legislatures. That was the argument by my Republican congressman who voted against certification of the election. With no Covid or unusual circumstances I'm not sure what basis there would be to claim fraud in 2024.
In 2020, they claimed that dead people voted. They claimed illegals voted. They claimed people voted multiple times. They claimed ballots made from ballot were shipped in from China. They claimed Venezuela hacked the Dominion Voting Machines. None of these claims had any evidence to support them. So, I'm pretty sure they won't have any problem coming up with a basis to challenge the election.
My point was that some in Congress believed in irregularities due to new voting safeguards in place due to Covid. These were generally not the fringe Maga politicians. Though possibly all Republicans have no credibility.
There is no bar low enough to imagine what Trump or his acolytes would do. I can imagine local boards refusing to certify and even destroying ballots because they believe the ballots were fake. If there are no ballots do you start over or does the state legislature step in to declare a winner? Let’s work together to preserve our democracy. Elections only work because the loser concedes.
Which courts do you think will permit this?
HINT: None. Trump didn’t appoint these judges; they’re state-level. It will go just about as well for him as last time.
I'm an attorney, believe in our legal system, and I am nowhere near as optimistic as you are.
State judges can be very ambitious and very partisan, maybe more than federal judges. I could see a judge wanting to please Trump to possibly get a federal judicial appointment down the road.
And I’m also a lawyer.
Why didn’t they do that in 2020? Same scenario.
I have to assume that the Democrats will be ready to instantly challenge this non-certification nonsense when it occurs with carefully crafted court filings. Rather than repeatedly reading how the non-certifications will cause "chaos" and a "constitutional crisis," I'd love to read about how this will actually play out in all likelihood. I don't believe our system would crack under this idiotic form of pressure, but I can imagine an unhealthy delay as the courts restore order.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/08/08/donald-trump-georgia-election-reinvestigation/74715458007/
Thankfully presidential immunity will be in the hands of Biden this go around.
I’m wondering if the fake electors in Arizona recently cooperating and others being charged will make any of the corrupt electors think twice about doing the same? Thoughts?
They won't have to do that scheme this time. Local officials can throw the election into turmoil by refusing certification. Or state legislatures could override the popular vote in their state. None of these would be crimes. Wouldn't be right, or ethical, or moral, but a crime? No.