0:00
/
25:04
Transcript
0:00
SPEAKER 1
Hey guys, welcome back to The Bulwark. I am joined by Congressman Ro Khanna of California to talk all things Doge. We are going to get into that right away. Congressman, thanks so much for joining us. I really appreciate it. Let me just start out sort of generally.
0:15
What is your understanding of what Doge is going to do and what it can do?
0:22
SPEAKER 2
My understanding is that they will be providing recommendations to the Congress and to the president for how to make government more effective and to cut waste, fraud, and abuse from government. What I have said is when it comes to Social Security, when it comes to Medicare, I will oppose with every fiber of my being any cut.

Ro Khanna Wants Musk to Disclose His Finances

The Silicon Valley Democrat has embraced DOGE. But he sees the conflicts of interest, too.

NO CONGRESSIONAL DEMOCRAT has been as willing to accept and oblige Elon Musk in his MAGA turn as Rep. Ro Khanna.

The Californian, whose district includes Silicon Valley, has encouraged his fellow party members not to decamp from Musk’s platform, X. He’s praised Musk as a disruptive force for good in the electric vehicle and space industries. And he’s spoken about his desire to work collaboratively with Musk’s “Department of Government Efficiency” as it looks to slash $2 trillion from government expenditures.

But even Khanna has qualms about the world’s richest man making a febrile foray into national politics. In an interview with The Bulwark, Khanna called for Musk and his DOGE co-chief, Vivek Ramaswamy, to ensure that the public was aware of conflict of interests in their work by disclosing their finances. Musk, for one, has numerous federal contracts tied to various companies, among them SpaceX and Starlink.

“I think there should be transparency. I think he would have to do the same financial disclosures that I have to do, that the presidents need to do. I think there should be complete transparency in those interests and he should recuse himself if there is a conflict of interest,” Khanna said. “I just assumed that they would put them through a financial disclosure process and conflict-of-interest process. I mean, absolutely that. That to me strikes me as a very reasonable request.”

Here at The Bulwark, we’re not for the Red Team or the Blue Team—we’re just for democracy. If that sounds like you, join us.

Musk has not released comprehensive information on his finances, while Ramaswamy did put out tax information as part of his Republican presidential primary run. A spokesperson for “DOGE” declined to comment.

Good-government groups, ethicists, and even fellow entrepreneurs have warned that DOGE creates a morass of conflicts. And while Musk has promised that the still-inchoate, quasi-governmental cost cutters will post “all actions” online, the Trump transition team has only said the entity will be “compliant with all legal guidelines related to conflicts of interest.” But it is not yet clear if DOGE will be structured as a government body that would require them to comply with such guidelines—or as some sort of non-profit, outside consultant group exempt from them.

While the potential for corruption has troubled Democrats, their primary concern is what DOGE will do to actual governance. Musk has hinted at targeting a host of different agencies and expenditures, from outdated IT to full elimination of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and the National Institutes of Health. The debate within the party is over whether to try and shape the cuts and reforms that DOGE proposes or to dismiss it entirely. In a separate interview, Rep. Brendan Boyle (D-Pa.) called the entity “a complete joke,” that, in reality, had the power of two rich men with a joint Twitter account.

“There is no Department of Government Efficiency. Just tweeting out that you are creating a department is not the way it works,” Boyle said.

Khanna disagrees. He was “not confident” that DOGE wouldn’t end up suggesting reforms or cuts to major entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare. But it was precisely for that reason, he argued, that Democrats should be at the table, fighting to protect fundamental interests.

“We have to be willing to cross party lines to put the American people first, being vigilant, understanding that there are going to be places to oppose, and understanding that there’s some risk,” he explained. “But what’s the alternative? That we just all retreat to our camps and never be willing to cross the aisle to look for common ground?”

Khanna ultimately did not have a nihilistic view of what DOGE might do, arguing that Congress would have final say on pay cuts and that legal challenges would likely derail any dramatic efforts by the Trump administration to rescind federal expenditures or dramatically fire career officials.

But he was less sanguine about his party’s ability to navigate rocky political waters.

Democrats, after all, used to embrace the tech entrepreneurial class. And Musk, in turn, once identified as a Democrat. Philosophical differences may have intervened—most notably when Joe Biden excluded Tesla from an electric vehicle summit because the company opposed both the president’s Build Back Better initiative and unionization efforts at its plants. But Khanna said he believed the current fissures could have been avoided.

“What I would have done is of course I would have invited him to the summit and I would have sat him next down to UAW probably, to [the union’s president] Sean Fain,” said Khanna. “And you know, Elon would have probably found that funny, but I would have said, ‘Elon, you know, when are we going to get Sean Fain to unionize?’ I mean, my point is: Don’t exclude, challenge, that’s leadership. And so now maybe we would have still lost him, at least you’re being honest about your perspective.”

Share

Discussion about this video

User's avatar
ARW's avatar

Yet another reason for me to leave the Democratic Party. Absolutely useless - if not actually harmful. They can't seem to help being drawn to the right-wing magnetic pole.

Expand full comment
Spencer $ Sally Jones's avatar

Rep Khanna makes sense when he offers that up-to-date IT infrastructure and a revised Pentagon ordering system could save a great deal of money. Of course the Republicans have blocked new IRS systems and many in Congress have favorite military suppliers in their Districts. Seems like a good idea to

control our anxiety and use our power where it can make the most good.

Expand full comment
ERNEST HOLBURT's avatar

Who exactly is Musk and Vivek to be given so much power? Musk took over Twitter and it is now a mess worth only a fraction of when he bought it. I have driven behind self-driving Waymo cabs, but never a Tesla Robocab. Tesla sales are not increasing, and it is losing market share. Musk and Vivek have literally no credibility for their role in finding government waste. DOGE is a ploy to get government funds into his pockets and government agencies off of Musk's back.

Expand full comment
Bmore's avatar

What will happen when USA foreign interests conflict with musk’s business interest?

Expand full comment
Bruce Whitney's avatar

I laughed out loud when I heard Rep Khanna saying that Musk should provide a financial disclosure statement. Like Donald Trump gives a rat's ass about any of his henchmen providing financial disclosure. Since Trump didn't voluntarily provide such disclosure, why would the epitome of a rules-do-not-apply-to-me oligarch like Musk even consider for one second providing a financial disclosure statement?

Expand full comment
ruserious's avatar

Hit rewind - 12 trillion dollars of wealth in his district. Enough said. Sam please keep fighting the good fight and asking the key questions over and over again as needed.

Expand full comment
Tony Vernon's avatar

I am not 100% certain of this, but I'm willing to bet that a very significant amount of Elon's wealth and income put him at the top of ALL Federal contractors. The idea that this man can do ANYTHING related to Federal spending is ludicrous on the face of it. Please dear God let Elon go back to technology innovation, something that he excels at, and get the everloving fuck out of politics. Rant over.

Expand full comment
Michelle Martin's avatar

Absolutely done with Ro Khan! Wow....sad....

Expand full comment
Jesse K's avatar

There've been a few people over the past 10 or so years that I strongly disliked off the bat and was later proven right - JD Vance, Andrew Yang, and most recently, Ro Khanna. Dude seems shady af and his seeming idolization of Elmo at this point in time is something to behold.

Expand full comment
Ben Gruder's avatar

So much wrong here: The idea that giving an ambassadorship to France to powerful/connected people (a long standing bi-partisan practice) is equivalent to turning a blind eye to an oligarch that has US defense by the balls being a close advisor to POTUS himself and in charge of planning all manner of government expenditures across the board with wild and obvious conflicts of interest, is playing into the whole false equivalence that has supported and excused Trumpism from the jump. How sweet that Rho thinks Dems have to overturn Citizen's United (by what, wishcraft?) in order to be able to have an opinion about a singularly powerful man-child having a corrupt POTUS's ear. Dems should not accept PAC money? Sure, that'll keep Musk et al from being alienated from the Democratic party. /s

Expand full comment
Ben Gruder's avatar

MAGA, for all its supposed populisim, believes certain select people should be immune from having to meet the requirements regular people must meet. Financial disclosures, while fine for normal people in regular administrations, are seen as too burdensome for oligarchs; they are special and considered deserving of special consideration: They shouldn't have to sacrifice anything in order to work in the White House; they are too important to be bothered with such things. Especially THIS upcoming white house, where the Dear Leader Savior Trump shouldn't have to follow any rules or norms at all.

Expand full comment
Kimberly Gallant's avatar

I would expect Financial disclosures? Just like the president or congress? What rock has he been living under? Ffs. The conflict of interest segment was beyond delulu. This was embarrassing

Expand full comment
Kimberly Gallant's avatar

He sounds like such a fan boy

Expand full comment
Tina's avatar

Not impressed

Expand full comment
Christina's avatar

Holy crap, 2016 called and it would like it’s strategy back. There’s a lot that I don’t know, but I know for sure that this is not the way for Dems to win back power. This is embarrassing for Khanna.

I think it’s absolutely insanity for any Democrats to help sanitize these wackadoodles by focusing only on the narrow strip of things they could, maybe, agree on if all the things line up juuuust right and barely caveat the universe of divide on stuff that’s terrible, bonkers, or both.

Expand full comment
Heather's avatar

Not to mention just ignore all the obvious conflicts of interest just because you have a relationship with someone - ie Musk. Just because you like or admire someone doesn't mean they are necessarily a good person or good for the country!

Expand full comment
ruhRoh's avatar

I totally appreciate and share the sentiment, perspective, and many ideas Congressman Khanna expressed for improving fed efficiency and innovation, but they seem mostly idyllic and wishcast-y when it will come to execution. There are no emerging counterbalances to corruption that any of us can see...at least none with any legal or political efficacy (aka teeth).

If we get lucky (lol talk about wishes) with some morally upstanding wizards behind these curtains, there are a lot of really great examples the government is already doing along this entire front! They just need to identify, support, and replicate these programs across other agencies using the exact kinds of feds and civilians who pulled them off already. And keep those people while they're at it.

For reference check out NASA's SEWP, USDA'S STRATUS, or DHS's ADaPTS, which I also offer as a challenge to Sam's assertion all govt IT sucks 😄

This was a really great interview, and again appreciate what the Congressman had to say - this is exactly the right attitude and approach IMO; and that approach also includes challenging tactics and being pragmatic, as Sam was doing throughout. Ty as always Bulwark crew!

Expand full comment
Jennifer's avatar

The more he talks (and tweets) the less impressed I am with Ro Khanna.

Expand full comment
Jill Boyer-Lehnert's avatar

Over the last week, there were two Republican Congressmen on C-Span Washington Journal (one was Kevin Bacon) and they were talking about Social Security reform and they want to work with Democrats. Rep. Bacon even admitted that they want to “share the blame” so not to give an advantage to either party. In other words, they want to cut Social Security, get a few gullible Democrats to join in and make it Bipartisan.

Expand full comment
Richard Campbell's avatar

“Why yes, Sam, I can work with this hotbed of corruption if the corruption is good for the American people.”

Expand full comment
Richard Campbell's avatar

I’m going to swear. Don’t let Mona see this.

Holy fuck this guy is either a total fucking idiot, or looking to feather his own fucking bed. Musk SHOULD NOT BE PART OF FUCKING DOGE!!! It is a MASSIVE FUCKING CONFLICT OF INTEREST!

Expand full comment