Hey Tim, do you think the SS yelled “ Donald Duck” Ha! Maybe too soon, but really When you indulge in violent rhetoric for 8plus years, sometimes it comes back and bites you in the Ass! I have zero fucks to give, especially after you think about all the Lives that have died from his hate speeches, remember when he said immigrants were invading and a young wingnut drove four hours from Dallas to Elpaso to kill 22 people at a Walmart! Or the 13 Jews at a synagogue, Let’s not forget Buffalo NY where 10 black people lost their lives! He’s never gonna stop encouraging violence, I give him 2 weeks and he’ll be right back at it. Truth believe me.
Why are we calling it political violence? No, seriously I question this. The shooter is a blank canvas but for the firearm he used. He could easily be an opportunist who sought posthumous fame by shooting the nearest political figure and who wanted to go out in a blaze of so-called glory. Shot by Secret Service, how cool is that? Better than being some loser shooting himself in his parent's basement.
In the light of the assassination attempt, I feel even more strongly that a ticket with Whitmer and Shapiro should be considered. If arrived at through a transparent process and achieving full support of Biden and Harris, this would generate excitement and have a good chance of winning.
I think Harris would have an important role to play as a senior cabinet member, perhaps Attorney General.
This election is an absolute catastrophe. Everything that could have gone wrong has gone wrong. It feels like a runaway train without a driver, who the hell knows where it will end up. At this point, I have to tune it out for my own sanity.
The fact that Sam Stein would need to write that 'Political Violence is not the Answer' demonstrates the level of mental dysfunction and simple mindedness to which the country has descended, especially about violence and political violence that has been an integral part of American culture for centuries.
The most disheartening and sickening aspect of all the rhetoric in past days about gun attack on Donald Trump, is absolute refusal by any senior or all politicians in the Republican Party to abjectly denounce those withing their ranks who have publicly called for "political violence" on several occasions as means for gaining power and control going forward.
Equally as unbelievable is silence and cowardice from any and all Democrats in not severely admonishing, even condemning Republicans for this bigotry and acquiescence to vitriol of violence. No statement has been made by senior Democrats against declaration by Republican representative Collins in insanely attributing the attack as an order from Biden.
President Biden has repeatedly called for the Nation to Come Together. "No One" is listening, which bespeaks a complete disconnect with the reality of permanent fracture America is experiencing.
I live in hope. I’m taking a few deep breaths right now with the expectation that the Democrats and the Never Trump Republicans WILL be bringing your thoughts to life. I have a heavy sense of doom, I’m sick with anxiety, and damned tired of it. I’m old and feel now is my last chance to ‘save the country’ for the next two or three generations. I know I’m not alone. I believe our wishes for a ‘deadly’ serious and powerful response will happen, but right now might be a good time to let the Rs hang themselves here in my hometown.
Somehow the electorate, regular people, need to have it explained that if TFG is elected, the country won’t be saying “well, that didn’t work well, maybe we should elect a Democrat in 2028”. It will be too late to do anything about anything that TFG’s administration sets in motion. No chance to say “oops, let’s try again”. Too late. How would we bring NATO back, ever get justice for anyone, ever hold another free and fair election? These are the thoughts that keep me up at night. Literally.
Every year for the past thirty years I have heard Americans talking about need to "fight for Freedom and Democracy", much as Martin Luther King Jr indicated and practiced fighting vigorusly and relentlessly alongside hundreds of thousands of down trodden blacks and other disenfranchised Americans for their right to Vote and for acceptance as true equals in this society.
What Happened?
Hope is an aspiration that has no current lifespan or currency in this country of hate and violence for past 200 plus years. That observation maybe one reason that almost every person with whom I am acquainted and/or related from several other western developed nation are almost unanimous in thinking that Democrats will succumb to the onslaught of Donald Trump's MAGA disruptors this November, with only hope in their minds.
I hope all these folks and with whom I agree to a large extent are totally wrong, but the acquiescence to defeat and subjugation of a new dictator type authoritarian existence of America is logically much stronger.
Every one of my family and friends (with significant exception of my own husband) and neighbors is aware of the dreadful position the country is in. But they all have hope that you are wrong. Here in Wisconsin we have been under minority rule since the ugly endless term of Scott Walker, yet we still managed to elect a liberal state Supreme Court justice in a landslide. Women and young people turned out in droves and bitch slapped a smug Republican leadership. My continued hope is with women and young people in November. Especially with that hate monger Vance on the ticket with Trump. If the backlash against greed, hate, misogyny and toxic testosterone levels gains strength, the Republic will be safe. I see cracks in the patriarchy.
I share some of that anguish you expressed about the state of things in our country. Reality has become an unattractive thing to deal with realistically now? This is a great opportunity for Democrats. We could put our excessive fear and hopelessness aside, our wishes to master the situation with more niceness, not offending or provoking anyone by mentioning what is true, and keep retreating on the battlefields both at home and abroad. I want far more capable and wise leadership than Biden and his team provide, not because he isn’t “nice”, or trying to be careful, but because 1) he has never been capable enough on this level, in my opinion, and 2) he is showing far too much weakness and neurodegeneration to continue on for another term. We as Democrats must really be willing to grab the reins of reality and move forward confidently and clearly despite how unattractive and scary this reality can look.
Did anyone else hear a newscaster say the man who was killed at the rally was "caught in the crossfire"? An odd way to suggest how he was hit by a bullet that seems only to have come from one source.
I'm just wondering why the anchor would choose that phrase, not suggesting any conspiratorial cover-up of the bullets that hit the crowd.
In any event, I hope the final report, including autopsy and ballistic information, will be made public.
This assassination attempt *would* count as a mass shooting since 4 people were hit: Trump, the retired fire chief who died, and two others in critical condition at a hospital. That's four people shot (not including the shooter who was killed by USSS).
But yea, this country has a *men with guns* problem that isn't necessarily an age thing (the Vegas shooter was 67, the Maine shooter was 34, etc.). Women don't seem to be doing mass-shootings or assassination attempts or domestic violence killings anywhere close to the rates that men do. So it's not necessarily a gun problem as much as it is a men-with-guns-and-mental-health-issues problem.
Tim's right that Trump is very lucky. Everything is going his way. Now, one more blow to democracy and a gift to Trump: the documents case has been dismissed! Unbelievable!!! I'm sick to my stomach and having trouble dealing with all of this. I hate to say it but I think I've lost all hope of any good outcome in the near future.
How long before everybody starts to notice this whole horror was Republican on Republican violence with a weapon of war Republicans refuse to outlaw?
Democrats had nothing to do with any of it. It's not both sides.
And Trump haas a body count piling up behind him directly because of HIS rhetoric - El Paso, Pittsburg, Buffalo, The Capitol - and he must be called out on it every day.
We must not be intimidated or gaslit by fascist wannabes.
Yep, the mainstream media is totally both-sidesing playing Biden saying this and Trump saying that. How about the scores of violent rhetoric that has been preached by Trump’s minions all these years? Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh come to mind.
Allison Gill’s “The Daily Beans” podcast today played a clip of Alex Jones and guest basically saying how cool it would be if Trump were assassinated and then it would give them a real opportunity to go after everybody and install General Flynn. Seeing that this shooter was a registered Republican, it’s at least a credible theory that he was doing this as a response to a Republican fringe call to incite civil war.
Here’s the transcript from the Alex Jones interview:
“Ivan Raichlin, what happens if they steal it again? Or what happens if they kill Trump?
That's what I was gonna get to, the most dangerous course of action, right? That's the most dangerous course of action. I mean, I will say-
They've turned him into literally Obi-Wan Kenobi.
If they do that, option two behind Trump is gonna be so much better for us and so much worse for them.
I was about to say, if they kill him, that's the best case scenario. From a sick level, from a sick level beating him, oh, please kill him, which I don't, I mean, it's so good after that.
Oh, it's gonna be the best cleansing and the fastest cleansing that we've ever seen in my lifetime. I assess with almost certainty, with the highest level of confidence, that if they assassinate Trump, it is so game over for them, and it's gonna be so fast.
I'm actually scared of that, though. That's so explosive.
It is. That's why, I mean, it's basically, it's a warning to them, right? If they cross the Rubicon, you saw how popular he was, I mean, by just prosecuting him.
When I get[…]”
From The Daily Beans: The Unthinkable, Jul 15, 2024
Thank you for this guys. I was looking forward to hearing your reactions, which I know were tough to prepare in light of there not being a whole lot of information. But Tim, just in case anyone is trying to cancel you, you are absolutely right that Trump is the luckiest SOB ever. If only all the news outlets could stop running that damn martyr image of him!! No one deserves to be shot at. But Trump himself is responsible for creating this environment. I look forward to The Bulwark staying strong in the aftermath of the assassination and not allowing Republicans to spout their BS about Dems being at fault for what happened. Trump is a threat, plain and simple.
Tim, it is "grown up" to expect actions to have consequences. Many times they're visited on bystanders but sometimes they graze the ear of an instigator.
I have noticed your usage of the phrase "light authoritarianism" for a while and you used it again in this podcast. However, I do not think that you have made an effective case that Trump / Republicans plan for LIGHT authoritarianism.
January 6th was not light authoritarianism, it was an attempted coup and an attempt to establish a dictatorship.
Trump telling Esper to send troops to shoot protestors does not sound "light".
Trump saying former members of his administration and other should be executed does not sounds light.
The project 2025 plan to cause all government workers to swear allegiance to Trump instead of the constitution does not sound light.
Plans to invoke the insurrection act and send troops to take over police stations in democratic cities on the first day of Trump’s second term does not sound light.
In short a great deal of what Trump did, attempted to do and plans to does sound light. These previous actions and plans sound like hard authoritarianism / dictatorship.
Also, the supreme court making president immune does not sound light.
Other presenters on the Bulkwark and other places repeatedly say that Trump has previously either done or tried to do everything he said he would do. Now the supreme court has given and project 2025 will give him massive and possibly unlimited power to implement his plans. If he exercises this power, is this not the definition of hard authoritarianism / dictatorship?
Please make your counter case. I would very much like to hear it.
Are you just calling it “light” in an effort to turn down the temperature or can you make an actual case? I am hoping and prayer there is a solid case for “light”.
To be clear in this context I am in no way advocating for violence, but I also believe we must be real about the risks and what we need to do and peaceful democratic means are the answer.
Hey Tim, do you think the SS yelled “ Donald Duck” Ha! Maybe too soon, but really When you indulge in violent rhetoric for 8plus years, sometimes it comes back and bites you in the Ass! I have zero fucks to give, especially after you think about all the Lives that have died from his hate speeches, remember when he said immigrants were invading and a young wingnut drove four hours from Dallas to Elpaso to kill 22 people at a Walmart! Or the 13 Jews at a synagogue, Let’s not forget Buffalo NY where 10 black people lost their lives! He’s never gonna stop encouraging violence, I give him 2 weeks and he’ll be right back at it. Truth believe me.
Why are we calling it political violence? No, seriously I question this. The shooter is a blank canvas but for the firearm he used. He could easily be an opportunist who sought posthumous fame by shooting the nearest political figure and who wanted to go out in a blaze of so-called glory. Shot by Secret Service, how cool is that? Better than being some loser shooting himself in his parent's basement.
In the light of the assassination attempt, I feel even more strongly that a ticket with Whitmer and Shapiro should be considered. If arrived at through a transparent process and achieving full support of Biden and Harris, this would generate excitement and have a good chance of winning.
I think Harris would have an important role to play as a senior cabinet member, perhaps Attorney General.
This election is an absolute catastrophe. Everything that could have gone wrong has gone wrong. It feels like a runaway train without a driver, who the hell knows where it will end up. At this point, I have to tune it out for my own sanity.
Tim, you did me in with Buffalo Springfield. Oh my heart. I remember that day in Ohio and the news cover photo is burned on my retinas. Oh man.
The fact that Sam Stein would need to write that 'Political Violence is not the Answer' demonstrates the level of mental dysfunction and simple mindedness to which the country has descended, especially about violence and political violence that has been an integral part of American culture for centuries.
The most disheartening and sickening aspect of all the rhetoric in past days about gun attack on Donald Trump, is absolute refusal by any senior or all politicians in the Republican Party to abjectly denounce those withing their ranks who have publicly called for "political violence" on several occasions as means for gaining power and control going forward.
Equally as unbelievable is silence and cowardice from any and all Democrats in not severely admonishing, even condemning Republicans for this bigotry and acquiescence to vitriol of violence. No statement has been made by senior Democrats against declaration by Republican representative Collins in insanely attributing the attack as an order from Biden.
President Biden has repeatedly called for the Nation to Come Together. "No One" is listening, which bespeaks a complete disconnect with the reality of permanent fracture America is experiencing.
I live in hope. I’m taking a few deep breaths right now with the expectation that the Democrats and the Never Trump Republicans WILL be bringing your thoughts to life. I have a heavy sense of doom, I’m sick with anxiety, and damned tired of it. I’m old and feel now is my last chance to ‘save the country’ for the next two or three generations. I know I’m not alone. I believe our wishes for a ‘deadly’ serious and powerful response will happen, but right now might be a good time to let the Rs hang themselves here in my hometown.
Somehow the electorate, regular people, need to have it explained that if TFG is elected, the country won’t be saying “well, that didn’t work well, maybe we should elect a Democrat in 2028”. It will be too late to do anything about anything that TFG’s administration sets in motion. No chance to say “oops, let’s try again”. Too late. How would we bring NATO back, ever get justice for anyone, ever hold another free and fair election? These are the thoughts that keep me up at night. Literally.
Every year for the past thirty years I have heard Americans talking about need to "fight for Freedom and Democracy", much as Martin Luther King Jr indicated and practiced fighting vigorusly and relentlessly alongside hundreds of thousands of down trodden blacks and other disenfranchised Americans for their right to Vote and for acceptance as true equals in this society.
What Happened?
Hope is an aspiration that has no current lifespan or currency in this country of hate and violence for past 200 plus years. That observation maybe one reason that almost every person with whom I am acquainted and/or related from several other western developed nation are almost unanimous in thinking that Democrats will succumb to the onslaught of Donald Trump's MAGA disruptors this November, with only hope in their minds.
I hope all these folks and with whom I agree to a large extent are totally wrong, but the acquiescence to defeat and subjugation of a new dictator type authoritarian existence of America is logically much stronger.
Every one of my family and friends (with significant exception of my own husband) and neighbors is aware of the dreadful position the country is in. But they all have hope that you are wrong. Here in Wisconsin we have been under minority rule since the ugly endless term of Scott Walker, yet we still managed to elect a liberal state Supreme Court justice in a landslide. Women and young people turned out in droves and bitch slapped a smug Republican leadership. My continued hope is with women and young people in November. Especially with that hate monger Vance on the ticket with Trump. If the backlash against greed, hate, misogyny and toxic testosterone levels gains strength, the Republic will be safe. I see cracks in the patriarchy.
I share some of that anguish you expressed about the state of things in our country. Reality has become an unattractive thing to deal with realistically now? This is a great opportunity for Democrats. We could put our excessive fear and hopelessness aside, our wishes to master the situation with more niceness, not offending or provoking anyone by mentioning what is true, and keep retreating on the battlefields both at home and abroad. I want far more capable and wise leadership than Biden and his team provide, not because he isn’t “nice”, or trying to be careful, but because 1) he has never been capable enough on this level, in my opinion, and 2) he is showing far too much weakness and neurodegeneration to continue on for another term. We as Democrats must really be willing to grab the reins of reality and move forward confidently and clearly despite how unattractive and scary this reality can look.
Did anyone else hear a newscaster say the man who was killed at the rally was "caught in the crossfire"? An odd way to suggest how he was hit by a bullet that seems only to have come from one source.
I'm just wondering why the anchor would choose that phrase, not suggesting any conspiratorial cover-up of the bullets that hit the crowd.
In any event, I hope the final report, including autopsy and ballistic information, will be made public.
This assassination attempt *would* count as a mass shooting since 4 people were hit: Trump, the retired fire chief who died, and two others in critical condition at a hospital. That's four people shot (not including the shooter who was killed by USSS).
But yea, this country has a *men with guns* problem that isn't necessarily an age thing (the Vegas shooter was 67, the Maine shooter was 34, etc.). Women don't seem to be doing mass-shootings or assassination attempts or domestic violence killings anywhere close to the rates that men do. So it's not necessarily a gun problem as much as it is a men-with-guns-and-mental-health-issues problem.
Yep. Great final theme. History may not repeat, but it rhymes, with a dynamite melody.
Tim's right that Trump is very lucky. Everything is going his way. Now, one more blow to democracy and a gift to Trump: the documents case has been dismissed! Unbelievable!!! I'm sick to my stomach and having trouble dealing with all of this. I hate to say it but I think I've lost all hope of any good outcome in the near future.
How long before everybody starts to notice this whole horror was Republican on Republican violence with a weapon of war Republicans refuse to outlaw?
Democrats had nothing to do with any of it. It's not both sides.
And Trump haas a body count piling up behind him directly because of HIS rhetoric - El Paso, Pittsburg, Buffalo, The Capitol - and he must be called out on it every day.
We must not be intimidated or gaslit by fascist wannabes.
Yep, the mainstream media is totally both-sidesing playing Biden saying this and Trump saying that. How about the scores of violent rhetoric that has been preached by Trump’s minions all these years? Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh come to mind.
Allison Gill’s “The Daily Beans” podcast today played a clip of Alex Jones and guest basically saying how cool it would be if Trump were assassinated and then it would give them a real opportunity to go after everybody and install General Flynn. Seeing that this shooter was a registered Republican, it’s at least a credible theory that he was doing this as a response to a Republican fringe call to incite civil war.
Here’s the transcript from the Alex Jones interview:
“Ivan Raichlin, what happens if they steal it again? Or what happens if they kill Trump?
That's what I was gonna get to, the most dangerous course of action, right? That's the most dangerous course of action. I mean, I will say-
They've turned him into literally Obi-Wan Kenobi.
If they do that, option two behind Trump is gonna be so much better for us and so much worse for them.
I was about to say, if they kill him, that's the best case scenario. From a sick level, from a sick level beating him, oh, please kill him, which I don't, I mean, it's so good after that.
Oh, it's gonna be the best cleansing and the fastest cleansing that we've ever seen in my lifetime. I assess with almost certainty, with the highest level of confidence, that if they assassinate Trump, it is so game over for them, and it's gonna be so fast.
I'm actually scared of that, though. That's so explosive.
It is. That's why, I mean, it's basically, it's a warning to them, right? If they cross the Rubicon, you saw how popular he was, I mean, by just prosecuting him.
When I get[…]”
From The Daily Beans: The Unthinkable, Jul 15, 2024
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-daily-beans/id1473747182?i=1000662233291
This material may be protected by copyright.
Akshuallly - this was a mass shooting as defined by four or more people shot - Trump, the guy who was killed, and the two others critically wounded.
Thank you for this guys. I was looking forward to hearing your reactions, which I know were tough to prepare in light of there not being a whole lot of information. But Tim, just in case anyone is trying to cancel you, you are absolutely right that Trump is the luckiest SOB ever. If only all the news outlets could stop running that damn martyr image of him!! No one deserves to be shot at. But Trump himself is responsible for creating this environment. I look forward to The Bulwark staying strong in the aftermath of the assassination and not allowing Republicans to spout their BS about Dems being at fault for what happened. Trump is a threat, plain and simple.
Tim, it is "grown up" to expect actions to have consequences. Many times they're visited on bystanders but sometimes they graze the ear of an instigator.
Tim,
I have noticed your usage of the phrase "light authoritarianism" for a while and you used it again in this podcast. However, I do not think that you have made an effective case that Trump / Republicans plan for LIGHT authoritarianism.
January 6th was not light authoritarianism, it was an attempted coup and an attempt to establish a dictatorship.
Trump telling Esper to send troops to shoot protestors does not sound "light".
Trump saying former members of his administration and other should be executed does not sounds light.
The project 2025 plan to cause all government workers to swear allegiance to Trump instead of the constitution does not sound light.
Plans to invoke the insurrection act and send troops to take over police stations in democratic cities on the first day of Trump’s second term does not sound light.
In short a great deal of what Trump did, attempted to do and plans to does sound light. These previous actions and plans sound like hard authoritarianism / dictatorship.
Also, the supreme court making president immune does not sound light.
Other presenters on the Bulkwark and other places repeatedly say that Trump has previously either done or tried to do everything he said he would do. Now the supreme court has given and project 2025 will give him massive and possibly unlimited power to implement his plans. If he exercises this power, is this not the definition of hard authoritarianism / dictatorship?
Please make your counter case. I would very much like to hear it.
Are you just calling it “light” in an effort to turn down the temperature or can you make an actual case? I am hoping and prayer there is a solid case for “light”.
To be clear in this context I am in no way advocating for violence, but I also believe we must be real about the risks and what we need to do and peaceful democratic means are the answer.
I've said it many times, he is the luckiest s.o.b. in American history, it's become glaringly apparent this year.