I agree that the interview with Russell Moore was terrific. I found his comments about conversations with pastors who cannot, in their own churches, sound like Jesus for fear of their parishioners calling them "too woke." All that turn-the-other-cheek" stuff is just weak...
They need to put butts in pews because those butts give the money…
I agree that the interview with Russell Moore was terrific. I found his comments about conversations with pastors who cannot, in their own churches, sound like Jesus for fear of their parishioners calling them "too woke." All that turn-the-other-cheek" stuff is just weak...
They need to put butts in pews because those butts give the money that keeps the church operating. Truth is great and all, but somebody's gotta pay the bills, right? I wished Moore had said he pointed this out to his pastor friends, but it sounds like he didn't. Jesus was poor, virtuous. Jesus cared about people. All people. Where did those ideas go?
This is specifically true of conservative churches, such as Southern Baptist or evangelical sects. Those Pastors are funded by the collection plate. Episcopalians, Methodists, not so much.
I don’t know where they disappeared because I must not have been paying attention. I still thought that stuff was true.
Jesus was not a capitalist. No amount of interpreting the OT patriarchs, kings and Job (whoever he was) will make that so. Jesus did actually say a lot of “woke” stuff, if you interpret basic principles of justice as “woke.”
I’m not going to change to fit the current milieu in White Ev Church circles. I could leave (the new American Anglicans are appealing) or I could stay and fight. I’ve chosen the latter. I will speak out and I will keep speaking out. We’re blessed to have a new young pastor is speaking out as well.
I was brought up going with (read: being dragged by) my mother 3x/week to the local Church of Christ. Dad, incredibly enough, was an atheist, yet he accompanied the family every Sunday morning, some Sunday nights and, rarely, on Wednesdays to evening services. Every preacher we had tried to "save" Dad, but he quickly and politely let them know they were wasting their time, and proceeded to genuinely befriend them. Once, during the reception after a wedding, officiated by the minister of the moment, Dad asked this preacher, "Bennie, do you really believe all the shit in your sermons?" This preacher, with a beer (GASP!) in hand, looked around the room to see if anyone was paying attention to him and Dad, and replied, "Lew, if these people knew what I really believe, they'd tar and feather me and ride me out of town in a rail." I have not one doubt that the same is true for all these mega-church con artists.
Makes me sad though I believe it. I have met Pastors and spoken with a couple who basically feel that the great swathes of the Bible should be torn out and thrown away. I’ve met an atheist pastor as well. Now many of those prefer the term minister or reverend and love the collar, but not all of them. Especially through the pandemic there were many, many pastors who questioned everything they believed and many left the church. Burn out is high.
The pastors that I’ve known well, truly believe. I’m sad for those attending churches where their ministers are just going through the motions but I get it.
Maybe these guys need to start looking into side gigs.
There's a shortage of carpenters in the US. Also the fishing industry needs a lot of immigrant labor, there's another potential side gig for these guys.
I agree that the interview with Russell Moore was terrific. I found his comments about conversations with pastors who cannot, in their own churches, sound like Jesus for fear of their parishioners calling them "too woke." All that turn-the-other-cheek" stuff is just weak...
They need to put butts in pews because those butts give the money that keeps the church operating. Truth is great and all, but somebody's gotta pay the bills, right? I wished Moore had said he pointed this out to his pastor friends, but it sounds like he didn't. Jesus was poor, virtuous. Jesus cared about people. All people. Where did those ideas go?
This is specifically true of conservative churches, such as Southern Baptist or evangelical sects. Those Pastors are funded by the collection plate. Episcopalians, Methodists, not so much.
Can confirm Episcopalian priests (American Anglicans, not so new) are salaried.
I don’t know where they disappeared because I must not have been paying attention. I still thought that stuff was true.
Jesus was not a capitalist. No amount of interpreting the OT patriarchs, kings and Job (whoever he was) will make that so. Jesus did actually say a lot of “woke” stuff, if you interpret basic principles of justice as “woke.”
I’m not going to change to fit the current milieu in White Ev Church circles. I could leave (the new American Anglicans are appealing) or I could stay and fight. I’ve chosen the latter. I will speak out and I will keep speaking out. We’re blessed to have a new young pastor is speaking out as well.
Tax the church?
I was brought up going with (read: being dragged by) my mother 3x/week to the local Church of Christ. Dad, incredibly enough, was an atheist, yet he accompanied the family every Sunday morning, some Sunday nights and, rarely, on Wednesdays to evening services. Every preacher we had tried to "save" Dad, but he quickly and politely let them know they were wasting their time, and proceeded to genuinely befriend them. Once, during the reception after a wedding, officiated by the minister of the moment, Dad asked this preacher, "Bennie, do you really believe all the shit in your sermons?" This preacher, with a beer (GASP!) in hand, looked around the room to see if anyone was paying attention to him and Dad, and replied, "Lew, if these people knew what I really believe, they'd tar and feather me and ride me out of town in a rail." I have not one doubt that the same is true for all these mega-church con artists.
Makes me sad though I believe it. I have met Pastors and spoken with a couple who basically feel that the great swathes of the Bible should be torn out and thrown away. I’ve met an atheist pastor as well. Now many of those prefer the term minister or reverend and love the collar, but not all of them. Especially through the pandemic there were many, many pastors who questioned everything they believed and many left the church. Burn out is high.
The pastors that I’ve known well, truly believe. I’m sad for those attending churches where their ministers are just going through the motions but I get it.
"It is hard to convince a man of something if his paycheck depends upon his not being convinced of it."
U. Sinclair
Looked it up: It was Sinclair, and here's the exact quote:
" It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
Orwell just said that he always said it. ;)
Maybe these guys need to start looking into side gigs.
There's a shortage of carpenters in the US. Also the fishing industry needs a lot of immigrant labor, there's another potential side gig for these guys.
What you did there...I saw it.
Excellent ideas. Nothing will teach humility faster than a day working as a carpenter.
It dovetails with Tim Alberta's article in The Atlantic. Confrontation and animus sells.