Voting straight ticket is a lazy way to approach our balloting. Take the time to understand the platforms of each candidate you will vote for. Having an "R" after your name doesn't automatically make you a bad person, and having a "D" after doesn't imply that you are inherently good.
Voting straight ticket is a lazy way to approach our balloting. Take the time to understand the platforms of each candidate you will vote for. Having an "R" after your name doesn't automatically make you a bad person, and having a "D" after doesn't imply that you are inherently good.
Examples? Would you consider Joe Manchin a true blue (pardon the pun) Democrat? What about Sinema (prior to leaving the party) or Rep Cuellar? From the "R" side you have Adam Kinzinger who seemed to side with his constituency (and his internal moral code) over the Party. You might not always agree with Mitt Romney, but, he too, most often sides with his voters and follows his conscience rather than march in lockstep with the Rs. Or consider Larry Hogan as an example.
Schumer wouldn't be Majority Leader right now without Manchin and Sinema, which means much of Biden's policy agenda, and many appointments, also would not have happened.
I used to think like this. I've changed my mind. Here's why: You cannot trust a GOP majority to do the job it is meant to do as opposed to wasting our money playing childish games comprised of lies and hate and vengence. And every R elected is a step farther away from returning the GOP to being an actual responsible political party. Today's Rs need to be gone and R voters need to understand that in today's dangerous and complex world, those elected to high office need to be of high moral character, need to have some relevant experience, and need to be honest. Today's Rs do NOT fit that bill overall, so I will not vote for the best of them, because having them in the Majority is too destructive. Dear heaven, a half dozen or more of them HELPED the J6 MOB!!! And are still in OFFICE!!!
So, no. Voting against the Party of Hate until further notice because it is the only way to stop it!
So, IOW, your proposal is to vote against *anyone* with an "R" after their name because the Party is so corrupted. But, at the same time, you seem to feel that they can self-correct without voting for a decent R who would add to the efforts to clean up their act.
While every MAGAdroid claims to be a Republican, not all Republicans are MAGA. By your criteria someone like Adam Kinzinger should not serve in the House solely based on what his Party affiliation is, and that people like Joe Manchin or Henry Cuellar should be seated based on the D after their names.
I'm not trying to insult you, or implying that you are wrong in your beliefs, disagreement (and then compromise) is the very essence of a democracy - or in our case, a Constitutional Republic. I just believe that there are still some decent Repubs running for a political office, at the local, state and national levels, and these people deserve some support if the New GOP is to retain any semblance of a viable party with a future in American politics.
Sadly, yes. Because having Adam and Liz helped give Rs the majority, where they can do more damage (though they did remarkable damage in the minority too), and the only way to stop the Gohmerts and Hawleys is to stop the Rs from winning or stealing elections and giving themselves the majority despite their unpopular views and minority numbers overall. This should only take 8 years if it was really done right.
And they need a shock treatment, imho!
PS: R state legislatures are doing a TON of damage to voting rights nationwide too!!!!
Again, you would deny a normie the chance to work within the Republican Party in trying to resurrect the ruins we now see. The only way, IMO, to restore any integrity to the New GOP is to replace the Psychiatric Facility Escapee Caucus members with Republicans who understand the concept of legislation for the good of the entire country, and aren't just there to own the Libs and practice political theater targeting their rabid base. (These people do exist.) If the centrist wing of the New GOP is voted out of swing districts, all that will remain are the MAGAdroids from safe districts, and this will assuredly kill the Party.
Please do not interpret this as a push to vote R, but to consider looking at a moderate Republican rather than just voting Democrat since Dems can be extremists, too.
It really isn't imperative to vote out all Republicans to make the Dems the majority in the House, but it is essential for the Republicans to remain a viable party while ridding themselves of the bomb throwers. If there is no voice from the opposition then there is no real democracy. The only way that voice will be heard is by voting for them - should their position statements meld with your own stance.
I said it before, and I will say it again: just because you have a D after your name doesn't automatically make you one of the good guys. and having an R doesn't make you a villain.
Max, I don't know if it was intentional, but I am offended that you appear to castigate me as being a low-info voter: "I have and continue to educate myself on what’s going on[,]" as have I for done the same since '72 - and as I suggest in my post: I "Take the time to understand the platforms of each candidate [I] will vote for."
IMO, most newbies running for a political office join the party that is dominant in the jurisdiction in which they wish to run. In many cases the party chosen was/is an expediency and not necessarily representative of the true convictions of the potential candidate.
My political history is not as an independent throughout. I was a Repub - I even served two years on my county's Republican Steering Committee - until 1986 when the stench of Neocons no longer just wafted out of Reagan's WH but flowed freely. I became a libertarian - in the non-pejorative sense as seen in the 20th Century. Since the early 2000s I have followed Conservative Liberalism (for those that think that this is not a thing try googling it).
I have not, nor do I plan to, vote without researching the candidates' positions in relation to my own, nor do I vote for propositions without understanding both the short and long term ramifications. I just believe that in order to take a responsible position it behooves one to do some digging prior to voting. (IMO, it was a lack of research both at the primary and at the general election levels that gave us the Apricot Arthropod. Even a simple look at his stances should have shown that there was no way he was qualified to be POTUS.)
"YOU started the convo by accusing anyone voting one party down the ballot as being too lazy to do research. And as I said, I read political article/books every day and see the Republican Party growing worse and worse which tells me I’m unlikely to ever vote for any R for the rest of my [sic]."
If you did the research and still vote straight ticket, then you are an exception to the rule. A predominant number of people, from either major party, believe that pulling the lever (or filling in a bubble on a ballot) for all candidates from one's tribe is the sound way to vote. It is these people who I would refer to as low-info - or no info - voters. I have no problem with you, or anyone else, who, after educating themselves of their various options, still thinks it is in their best interest to vote D or R all the way up and down the ballot.
As for the supposed leadership of the New GOP, especially in the House, it does show an incredible lack of desire to push back against the Apricot Arthropod: just like MyKevin, Scalise, Stefanic, Jordan, Comer... spend all of their time and energy defending the indefensible while ignoring their constituencies. When it comes to MTG and her dick pics, I've previously said that she should be sitting in a holding cell in the DC jail for violating laws in 46 states and DC regarding the use of revenge porn - and since she did not have approvals from either person in the pic that's exactly what her goal was, to seek revenge on anyone named Biden on behalf of the Tangerine Tyrant.
"As to R “newbies”, they either cede their power to whatever the experienced Rs demand or they have no seat at any table." At the national level, and to some extent the state level, you are correct that the newbies need to kowtow to the senior members (both in time serving in Congress and age) if they want to propose any legislation and get it to move. But I know a good number of Rs who have run and been elected at the local level who are in vocal opposition to the MAGAdroids and all of their tendencies to force their minority beliefs on the rest of us. These are the politicians who, in a few years, likely will be aiming for either state or national positions. They stand no chance to make a difference if they don't get some support from the home front.
FWIW, I have very strong feelings towards keeping our democracy alive and kicking, and that, in a nutshell, is why I think it is necessary to support non-MAGA Repubs in their quest to restore the New GOP to a sustainable, viable party.
BTW, as I look back over the last twenty years at least, I can count on one hand the number of Repubs I have voted for, and none were running at the national level. There are still some decent Republicans and they need the help of everyone if they are to take back their Party from the alt-right extremists.
I also believe that a third party needs to be established, but not in '24. Any third party candidate for POTUS will most likely draw a few Ds and Rs, but will ultimately hand the WH to the MAGAdroids. And most definitely, no one from the No Labels group should be allowed on any ballot until they show us who their biggest donors are - most of which seems to be Republican dark money.
This, too, will be my final response. In a democracy, or a Constitutional Republic, a difference of opinion is both expected and welcome. The right to have your say by how you vote is one of the highest freedoms we enjoy - unless you live in a ruby red state trying to disenfranchise your voice illegitimately.
I do not begrudge you your stance on straight party voting. You seem to have done your proverbial homework (even though it is not for me to say in a one to one dialog like this), and have come by your opinions honestly. I am not being condescending, I admire anyone willing to put in the time to have an informed opinion.
In the long run, you are not my target audience when I refer to those who vote blindly for their preferred tribe. IDK if you read the WaPo but there is a sub-demographic of commenters there that just repeat the major talking points of a story, putting what they consider key phrases in all caps, bold or both, sign off - almost always in all caps here - "REMEMBER VOTE ONLY BLUE IN 24" and then sit back to count the likes.
Anyway, I sincerely wish you luck on keeping Ohio at the very least purple and surviving JD Vance. BTW, my family originally hailed from NE Ohio; mostly Cleveland and Youngstown.
In normal times, I would agree with you that voting based on the candidates platform is the way to go. However in the current climate, voting for even a moderate R, if he/she wins,will mean another vote for a Republican Majority Leader, who will be forced to pander to the extreme right wing like MyKevin, even if he/she is not an extremist. Sure you might get Dinos like Manchin, but at least you won't get a cowardly Mitch waiting for the Ds to get rid of Trump for him
"VOTE DEM ALL DOWN THE BALLOTS"
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Voting straight ticket is a lazy way to approach our balloting. Take the time to understand the platforms of each candidate you will vote for. Having an "R" after your name doesn't automatically make you a bad person, and having a "D" after doesn't imply that you are inherently good.
Examples? Would you consider Joe Manchin a true blue (pardon the pun) Democrat? What about Sinema (prior to leaving the party) or Rep Cuellar? From the "R" side you have Adam Kinzinger who seemed to side with his constituency (and his internal moral code) over the Party. You might not always agree with Mitt Romney, but, he too, most often sides with his voters and follows his conscience rather than march in lockstep with the Rs. Or consider Larry Hogan as an example.
Bottom line: vote the *person*, not the Party.
fnord
Schumer wouldn't be Majority Leader right now without Manchin and Sinema, which means much of Biden's policy agenda, and many appointments, also would not have happened.
I used to think like this. I've changed my mind. Here's why: You cannot trust a GOP majority to do the job it is meant to do as opposed to wasting our money playing childish games comprised of lies and hate and vengence. And every R elected is a step farther away from returning the GOP to being an actual responsible political party. Today's Rs need to be gone and R voters need to understand that in today's dangerous and complex world, those elected to high office need to be of high moral character, need to have some relevant experience, and need to be honest. Today's Rs do NOT fit that bill overall, so I will not vote for the best of them, because having them in the Majority is too destructive. Dear heaven, a half dozen or more of them HELPED the J6 MOB!!! And are still in OFFICE!!!
So, no. Voting against the Party of Hate until further notice because it is the only way to stop it!
So, IOW, your proposal is to vote against *anyone* with an "R" after their name because the Party is so corrupted. But, at the same time, you seem to feel that they can self-correct without voting for a decent R who would add to the efforts to clean up their act.
While every MAGAdroid claims to be a Republican, not all Republicans are MAGA. By your criteria someone like Adam Kinzinger should not serve in the House solely based on what his Party affiliation is, and that people like Joe Manchin or Henry Cuellar should be seated based on the D after their names.
I'm not trying to insult you, or implying that you are wrong in your beliefs, disagreement (and then compromise) is the very essence of a democracy - or in our case, a Constitutional Republic. I just believe that there are still some decent Repubs running for a political office, at the local, state and national levels, and these people deserve some support if the New GOP is to retain any semblance of a viable party with a future in American politics.
fnord
Sadly, yes. Because having Adam and Liz helped give Rs the majority, where they can do more damage (though they did remarkable damage in the minority too), and the only way to stop the Gohmerts and Hawleys is to stop the Rs from winning or stealing elections and giving themselves the majority despite their unpopular views and minority numbers overall. This should only take 8 years if it was really done right.
And they need a shock treatment, imho!
PS: R state legislatures are doing a TON of damage to voting rights nationwide too!!!!
Again, you would deny a normie the chance to work within the Republican Party in trying to resurrect the ruins we now see. The only way, IMO, to restore any integrity to the New GOP is to replace the Psychiatric Facility Escapee Caucus members with Republicans who understand the concept of legislation for the good of the entire country, and aren't just there to own the Libs and practice political theater targeting their rabid base. (These people do exist.) If the centrist wing of the New GOP is voted out of swing districts, all that will remain are the MAGAdroids from safe districts, and this will assuredly kill the Party.
Please do not interpret this as a push to vote R, but to consider looking at a moderate Republican rather than just voting Democrat since Dems can be extremists, too.
It really isn't imperative to vote out all Republicans to make the Dems the majority in the House, but it is essential for the Republicans to remain a viable party while ridding themselves of the bomb throwers. If there is no voice from the opposition then there is no real democracy. The only way that voice will be heard is by voting for them - should their position statements meld with your own stance.
I said it before, and I will say it again: just because you have a D after your name doesn't automatically make you one of the good guys. and having an R doesn't make you a villain.
fnord
Kinzinger and Cheney voted for and supported Trump in 2020.
They need to be made a rump party until they figure their shit out.
Max, I don't know if it was intentional, but I am offended that you appear to castigate me as being a low-info voter: "I have and continue to educate myself on what’s going on[,]" as have I for done the same since '72 - and as I suggest in my post: I "Take the time to understand the platforms of each candidate [I] will vote for."
IMO, most newbies running for a political office join the party that is dominant in the jurisdiction in which they wish to run. In many cases the party chosen was/is an expediency and not necessarily representative of the true convictions of the potential candidate.
My political history is not as an independent throughout. I was a Repub - I even served two years on my county's Republican Steering Committee - until 1986 when the stench of Neocons no longer just wafted out of Reagan's WH but flowed freely. I became a libertarian - in the non-pejorative sense as seen in the 20th Century. Since the early 2000s I have followed Conservative Liberalism (for those that think that this is not a thing try googling it).
I have not, nor do I plan to, vote without researching the candidates' positions in relation to my own, nor do I vote for propositions without understanding both the short and long term ramifications. I just believe that in order to take a responsible position it behooves one to do some digging prior to voting. (IMO, it was a lack of research both at the primary and at the general election levels that gave us the Apricot Arthropod. Even a simple look at his stances should have shown that there was no way he was qualified to be POTUS.)
fnord
Max,
"YOU started the convo by accusing anyone voting one party down the ballot as being too lazy to do research. And as I said, I read political article/books every day and see the Republican Party growing worse and worse which tells me I’m unlikely to ever vote for any R for the rest of my [sic]."
If you did the research and still vote straight ticket, then you are an exception to the rule. A predominant number of people, from either major party, believe that pulling the lever (or filling in a bubble on a ballot) for all candidates from one's tribe is the sound way to vote. It is these people who I would refer to as low-info - or no info - voters. I have no problem with you, or anyone else, who, after educating themselves of their various options, still thinks it is in their best interest to vote D or R all the way up and down the ballot.
As for the supposed leadership of the New GOP, especially in the House, it does show an incredible lack of desire to push back against the Apricot Arthropod: just like MyKevin, Scalise, Stefanic, Jordan, Comer... spend all of their time and energy defending the indefensible while ignoring their constituencies. When it comes to MTG and her dick pics, I've previously said that she should be sitting in a holding cell in the DC jail for violating laws in 46 states and DC regarding the use of revenge porn - and since she did not have approvals from either person in the pic that's exactly what her goal was, to seek revenge on anyone named Biden on behalf of the Tangerine Tyrant.
"As to R “newbies”, they either cede their power to whatever the experienced Rs demand or they have no seat at any table." At the national level, and to some extent the state level, you are correct that the newbies need to kowtow to the senior members (both in time serving in Congress and age) if they want to propose any legislation and get it to move. But I know a good number of Rs who have run and been elected at the local level who are in vocal opposition to the MAGAdroids and all of their tendencies to force their minority beliefs on the rest of us. These are the politicians who, in a few years, likely will be aiming for either state or national positions. They stand no chance to make a difference if they don't get some support from the home front.
FWIW, I have very strong feelings towards keeping our democracy alive and kicking, and that, in a nutshell, is why I think it is necessary to support non-MAGA Repubs in their quest to restore the New GOP to a sustainable, viable party.
BTW, as I look back over the last twenty years at least, I can count on one hand the number of Repubs I have voted for, and none were running at the national level. There are still some decent Republicans and they need the help of everyone if they are to take back their Party from the alt-right extremists.
I also believe that a third party needs to be established, but not in '24. Any third party candidate for POTUS will most likely draw a few Ds and Rs, but will ultimately hand the WH to the MAGAdroids. And most definitely, no one from the No Labels group should be allowed on any ballot until they show us who their biggest donors are - most of which seems to be Republican dark money.
fnord
This, too, will be my final response. In a democracy, or a Constitutional Republic, a difference of opinion is both expected and welcome. The right to have your say by how you vote is one of the highest freedoms we enjoy - unless you live in a ruby red state trying to disenfranchise your voice illegitimately.
I do not begrudge you your stance on straight party voting. You seem to have done your proverbial homework (even though it is not for me to say in a one to one dialog like this), and have come by your opinions honestly. I am not being condescending, I admire anyone willing to put in the time to have an informed opinion.
In the long run, you are not my target audience when I refer to those who vote blindly for their preferred tribe. IDK if you read the WaPo but there is a sub-demographic of commenters there that just repeat the major talking points of a story, putting what they consider key phrases in all caps, bold or both, sign off - almost always in all caps here - "REMEMBER VOTE ONLY BLUE IN 24" and then sit back to count the likes.
Anyway, I sincerely wish you luck on keeping Ohio at the very least purple and surviving JD Vance. BTW, my family originally hailed from NE Ohio; mostly Cleveland and Youngstown.
fnord
In normal times, I would agree with you that voting based on the candidates platform is the way to go. However in the current climate, voting for even a moderate R, if he/she wins,will mean another vote for a Republican Majority Leader, who will be forced to pander to the extreme right wing like MyKevin, even if he/she is not an extremist. Sure you might get Dinos like Manchin, but at least you won't get a cowardly Mitch waiting for the Ds to get rid of Trump for him