Title 8 of the US Code contains a myriad of statutes penalizing illegal entry, reentry, transporting, harboring, etc of persons who are in the US without lawful permission. Depending on the facts, jail time ranges from effective probation to 20 years or more, with higher punishment for repeat offenders. Within these statutes, and, again, depending on the facts, there are many verbs which can be construed as applying to those who employ these undocumented persons. Should a “tough on illegal immigration” Department of Justice begin charging these employers with aiding and abetting or conspiring with the undocumented employees to violate and repeatedly violate federal law, the “broken” immigration system would be changed.
This obviously does not address the immediacy of the inhumane mass deportations, and unconscionable breakup of families that have been promised, but it 1) would illuminate the scope of the issues, and 2) provide avenues for questions during confirmation hearings.
I appreciate the insights of those interviewed here. Trump, Tom Homan, Stephen Miller - they're all likely dreaming about "shock and awe" - but they haven't read Mark Hertling's Bulwark piece today on that topic. You should. Then look again at what several of Adrian's interviewees said. People are preparing. There will be chaos, fog, cruelty, much uncertainty. I'm certain many will NOT be awed. Probably not even that shocked, because we can anticipate what may be coming.
Trump & MAGA, however, are self-certain & over-confident. They don't have the common sense of the Marine who sat next to Hertling in class and observed, “perhaps this professor who’s never worn the uniform doesn’t understand how tough it really is in combat” - by which I mean, Trump & his underlings haven't walked for days through jungle & desert; they haven't lived in the shadows or under the radar; they haven't gone hungry, sacrificed much for very little; survived on hope & prayer.
Some are awake at night because they are preparing themselves to survive new challenges. Many have become good at it. We shall see, brothers and sisters
I am seriously wanting to see what plans (if any) the Trump regimes has to track down and deport the 750,000 white European, Israeli and east Asian people who have overstayed their visas. Or is this, as it seems, all about brown and black people?
The real purpose of the mass deportations beyond their propaganda value is to land an inevitable case before the Supreme Court that will clarify the murky status of "illegal aliens" under the protections of the Constitution. Heretofore the courts have been as liberal as possible to protect as many as possible with due process protections. However there has never been a black and white affirmation of those rights for anyone not present with legal status. This will be the opportunity to get that clarity in a way that favors the Trump regime's program.
All Trump has to show the court is evidence that the concerns raised in this article have been anticipated and addressed like wrongful deportation. Whether such policies and procedures are effective or efficient would be the subject of litigation beyond the scope of the program itself.
Also one of the propaganda efforts of the Trump regime will be to televise and flood the social media with coverage of well orchestrated, planned and executed deportation events. First to signal they are serious and the more aggressive the enforcement the more the majority of Americans will feel like action is taking place to solve the problem. In other words the effectiveness of the program has less value than the messaging.
Also one of the contributors hinted at physical resistance and I am pretty sure that will actually feed into the already unfavorable attitudes of nativists. Remember that for Trump the obvious cruelty of any policy is a selling point and not a liability. Family separation will be considered a good thing by them.
Harley - "well orchestrated" LOL. One of the strategies is to outsource the efforts to local law enforcement, with incentives like homeland security funds and cop toys like hummers, body armor, drones, etc. When Barney Fife or the MAGA sheriff get this credit-carte-blanche go-ahead, it's likely that civil liberties will take a back seat (probably not even along for the ride). Of course, if anything really ugly gets out in the press, Tom Homan can blame the low-level cops for their over-enthusiasm, with Trump bleating on Fox that "Arrest 'em hard. I'll pay for their lawyers" - we've already seen that show, right? So we get the meanness & the fear and the administration gets a slightly plausible deniability, at least in his royal court media; mainstream will report as if legal niceties WERE intended, but just got a lost in carrying out the shock'n'awe. Best of both worlds for Trump.
Your thought about getting some issues before the Supremes - but of course!
"Your Rights" is a free app that helps people understand and assert their legal rights during an immigration-enforcement encounter. It explains how to prepare for a possible encounter, what one should and shouldn't do and say to law-enforcement personnel, what to do if detained, and how to document the incident. The app is easy to use and available in 12 languages. Please pass along the link to anyone who might benefit from it: https://your-rights.org.
Very few people will complain if Trump goes after the adjudicated criminals who are here illegally. That group is the low hanging fruit that Trump loves to feast on. It is a good bet that the rest of the 11 million undocumented folks, the ones working and contributing, will face little danger of being removed.
Interesting article, but I would avoid the "corporate-speak" of using the term "stakeholder" to just mean "person who is affected." Talk to Tim Miller.
Yes, it’s important to keep reporting the gulf between the administrations’s words and the reality, but it is also important to understand the definition of the terms used by the media, the legislators, and the administration who generally lump everyone crossing the southern border as “illegal.” Yes, those in your vignettes discuss legitimate fears of illegal migrants who are productive, law-abiding members of their community. What they do NOT discuss are the illegal migrants who are gang members, drug dealers, and other criminals who should be deported. If we could trust Tom Homan to prioritize the latter, and get the Congress to pass legislation dealing with the former (not just blindly calling for their deportation) we would be better served.
Huddled Masses is a welcome forum to discuss these issues. I urge you to continue these discussions, and provide useful data to quantify the truly illegal criminals, the “illegal’ but productive members of communities, and those awaiting some court adjudication who are in fact legal until found to be illegal.
The real focus should be on the Congress to sort out the morass of our immigration laws. Langford, Murphy, and Sinema made a great start, but unfortunately it wasn’t convenient for one of the candidates during the previous election cycle.
Perhaps a similar series as these conversations with members of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and Border Patrol agents on what they see as their responsibilities in executing the law. Then a series on Legislators about their responsibilities in creating the law.
With opinions from seven different persons, I expected at least a couple of the submissions to be receptive to at least some of the pro-deportation arguments. This article would be more interesting if not limited exclusively to those persons who are "losing sleep" over bad things that will/might happen.
I really appreciate Adrian‘s contributions. The incoming administration policies could possibly affect people that I know. It all depends on the definition of illegal that they choose to use that week. The inconsistent way in which the definitions will be applied and to whom will be what needs to get pointed out repeatedly. And when workers in the service industries and agricultural work begins to dwindle one of the responses should be hire MAGA.
Yes, I’m sure those unemployed MAGA autoworkers in Ohio are eager to move to Florida to pick tomatoes, or to Texas to work as a home health aide somewhere. Sure, there’s MAGA in both those states too, but those jobs are HARD! Just makes you think how bad it is where they came from that they’re willing to do it anyway.
Or is this all just another Trump ploy—throw fear at the Latinos, appease the racist Republicans (practically all), back down. I’m thinking that once Trumpers realize the sheer complexity of mass deportation, they will talk big and delay, another Trump specialty.
Sanctuary... the very history of the word applies to persecuted people of religious faith and we have lots of history of it being used to protect Christians. This MAGA cabal used Christianity as one of their bedrock values but they are not willing to follow the fundamental principles of that faith, taught by their Jesus if you read his words in the Bible. The duplicity is astounding. And their cult leader has no understanding or willingness to be a faithful follower of those teachings but duped the masses with his propaganda. And the real life impact on the victims may not be death but it will be making their lives a living hell on earth. The MAGA are ok with that.
This is from the Biden administration: The new figures released by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) do show some 13,000 non-citizens convicted of homicide were on its records and not in its custody. Do you support deporting those 13,000 who were convicted of homicide, considering the real life impact on their victims, or you don't view the victims of immigrants as victims? How far would your Christian faith would go?
You think it is ok to punish the population for the crimes of a small portion? How many US citizens are on the books as wanted and not in custody? The 13,000 could be dealt with under current laws.
what population punishment are you talking about? deporting criminals who illegally crossed the border and killed people here will save US millions of dollars instead of keeping them in custody or have them roam the streets, looking to commit more crime. Tell this people of LA who recently caught the illegal immigrant out on probation with a blow torch just about to set a pile of wood on fire in the fire zone. There is a big difference between seeking asylum from a prosecution for religious or political views and seeking asylum to commit crimes.
THG - I'm not sure what stats you're using. Please consider that deportation isn't necessarily the 1st step that occurs now, or is planned by Trump.
Consider your example of someone convicted of murder. Are you saying they should go scott-free on that crime, they should just be deported? That's pretty generous of you. You realize that their home country may not recognize whatever court process occurred in the USA, nor carry out any legal punishment a US court ordered for the murder.
But if you say 1st punish them for murder here, then deport... then you're gonna pay to incarcerate possibly for life, or pay the costs of trying to pursue capital punishment if in a jurisdiction that allows. That's a diff discussion but you can find stats on that cost (not inexpensive).
Note that the private prison industry is fair excited about the expansion opportunities for imprisoning more people on immigration charges. When it comes to "millions of dollars" you ain't seen nothin yet.
I did a little digging on this number and found that while 13,000 non citizens are not detained by ICE, they may well be in custody by federal, state or local LE. For instance, Zacarias Moussaoui (9/11) is not in ICE custody; he is in high security prison in Colorado and is counted among the 13,000. 13,000 convicted non citizen murderers are not 'roaming the streets.' That Mr Trump would use this misleading data point is not surprising, he's a known and frequent liar.
Alondra - great point. So let's take Moussaoui as an example: all in favor of deporting him somewhere, where we'll have NO say over whether he stays in custody? Even if his terrorist days are winding down due to age & being out of the loop, what's his influence & propaganda value on the loose somewhere?
Similar issues apply to many convicted foreign nationals in US lock-up - "deportation" can easily mean "turning them loose outside the US." Is that always sensible strategy for the safety & security of Americans?
The unknown counterpoint between words and reality is, in this case, well worth noting. The potential for tremendous damage, collateral and otherwise, is there.
the chink in their armor is the economic side effects which theyre ignoring or even lying about. they think they can handle everything else and even the worst imagery imaginable ain't gonna do it (in their minds).
Title 8 of the US Code contains a myriad of statutes penalizing illegal entry, reentry, transporting, harboring, etc of persons who are in the US without lawful permission. Depending on the facts, jail time ranges from effective probation to 20 years or more, with higher punishment for repeat offenders. Within these statutes, and, again, depending on the facts, there are many verbs which can be construed as applying to those who employ these undocumented persons. Should a “tough on illegal immigration” Department of Justice begin charging these employers with aiding and abetting or conspiring with the undocumented employees to violate and repeatedly violate federal law, the “broken” immigration system would be changed.
This obviously does not address the immediacy of the inhumane mass deportations, and unconscionable breakup of families that have been promised, but it 1) would illuminate the scope of the issues, and 2) provide avenues for questions during confirmation hearings.
I appreciate the insights of those interviewed here. Trump, Tom Homan, Stephen Miller - they're all likely dreaming about "shock and awe" - but they haven't read Mark Hertling's Bulwark piece today on that topic. You should. Then look again at what several of Adrian's interviewees said. People are preparing. There will be chaos, fog, cruelty, much uncertainty. I'm certain many will NOT be awed. Probably not even that shocked, because we can anticipate what may be coming.
Trump & MAGA, however, are self-certain & over-confident. They don't have the common sense of the Marine who sat next to Hertling in class and observed, “perhaps this professor who’s never worn the uniform doesn’t understand how tough it really is in combat” - by which I mean, Trump & his underlings haven't walked for days through jungle & desert; they haven't lived in the shadows or under the radar; they haven't gone hungry, sacrificed much for very little; survived on hope & prayer.
Some are awake at night because they are preparing themselves to survive new challenges. Many have become good at it. We shall see, brothers and sisters
I am seriously wanting to see what plans (if any) the Trump regimes has to track down and deport the 750,000 white European, Israeli and east Asian people who have overstayed their visas. Or is this, as it seems, all about brown and black people?
Harley - I'm thinking that there's one o'them rhetorical questions 😉
The real purpose of the mass deportations beyond their propaganda value is to land an inevitable case before the Supreme Court that will clarify the murky status of "illegal aliens" under the protections of the Constitution. Heretofore the courts have been as liberal as possible to protect as many as possible with due process protections. However there has never been a black and white affirmation of those rights for anyone not present with legal status. This will be the opportunity to get that clarity in a way that favors the Trump regime's program.
All Trump has to show the court is evidence that the concerns raised in this article have been anticipated and addressed like wrongful deportation. Whether such policies and procedures are effective or efficient would be the subject of litigation beyond the scope of the program itself.
Also one of the propaganda efforts of the Trump regime will be to televise and flood the social media with coverage of well orchestrated, planned and executed deportation events. First to signal they are serious and the more aggressive the enforcement the more the majority of Americans will feel like action is taking place to solve the problem. In other words the effectiveness of the program has less value than the messaging.
Also one of the contributors hinted at physical resistance and I am pretty sure that will actually feed into the already unfavorable attitudes of nativists. Remember that for Trump the obvious cruelty of any policy is a selling point and not a liability. Family separation will be considered a good thing by them.
Harley - "well orchestrated" LOL. One of the strategies is to outsource the efforts to local law enforcement, with incentives like homeland security funds and cop toys like hummers, body armor, drones, etc. When Barney Fife or the MAGA sheriff get this credit-carte-blanche go-ahead, it's likely that civil liberties will take a back seat (probably not even along for the ride). Of course, if anything really ugly gets out in the press, Tom Homan can blame the low-level cops for their over-enthusiasm, with Trump bleating on Fox that "Arrest 'em hard. I'll pay for their lawyers" - we've already seen that show, right? So we get the meanness & the fear and the administration gets a slightly plausible deniability, at least in his royal court media; mainstream will report as if legal niceties WERE intended, but just got a lost in carrying out the shock'n'awe. Best of both worlds for Trump.
Your thought about getting some issues before the Supremes - but of course!
"Your Rights" is a free app that helps people understand and assert their legal rights during an immigration-enforcement encounter. It explains how to prepare for a possible encounter, what one should and shouldn't do and say to law-enforcement personnel, what to do if detained, and how to document the incident. The app is easy to use and available in 12 languages. Please pass along the link to anyone who might benefit from it: https://your-rights.org.
Thank you, David! That's indeed a good resource. Educational for EVERYONE, not just immigrants or others at risk.
Very few people will complain if Trump goes after the adjudicated criminals who are here illegally. That group is the low hanging fruit that Trump loves to feast on. It is a good bet that the rest of the 11 million undocumented folks, the ones working and contributing, will face little danger of being removed.
Optimistic
This is an outstanding newsletter. I'm so glad The Bulwark is focusing on this important issue.
Interesting article, but I would avoid the "corporate-speak" of using the term "stakeholder" to just mean "person who is affected." Talk to Tim Miller.
Yes, it’s important to keep reporting the gulf between the administrations’s words and the reality, but it is also important to understand the definition of the terms used by the media, the legislators, and the administration who generally lump everyone crossing the southern border as “illegal.” Yes, those in your vignettes discuss legitimate fears of illegal migrants who are productive, law-abiding members of their community. What they do NOT discuss are the illegal migrants who are gang members, drug dealers, and other criminals who should be deported. If we could trust Tom Homan to prioritize the latter, and get the Congress to pass legislation dealing with the former (not just blindly calling for their deportation) we would be better served.
Huddled Masses is a welcome forum to discuss these issues. I urge you to continue these discussions, and provide useful data to quantify the truly illegal criminals, the “illegal’ but productive members of communities, and those awaiting some court adjudication who are in fact legal until found to be illegal.
The real focus should be on the Congress to sort out the morass of our immigration laws. Langford, Murphy, and Sinema made a great start, but unfortunately it wasn’t convenient for one of the candidates during the previous election cycle.
Perhaps a similar series as these conversations with members of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and Border Patrol agents on what they see as their responsibilities in executing the law. Then a series on Legislators about their responsibilities in creating the law.
With opinions from seven different persons, I expected at least a couple of the submissions to be receptive to at least some of the pro-deportation arguments. This article would be more interesting if not limited exclusively to those persons who are "losing sleep" over bad things that will/might happen.
I really appreciate Adrian‘s contributions. The incoming administration policies could possibly affect people that I know. It all depends on the definition of illegal that they choose to use that week. The inconsistent way in which the definitions will be applied and to whom will be what needs to get pointed out repeatedly. And when workers in the service industries and agricultural work begins to dwindle one of the responses should be hire MAGA.
Yes, I’m sure those unemployed MAGA autoworkers in Ohio are eager to move to Florida to pick tomatoes, or to Texas to work as a home health aide somewhere. Sure, there’s MAGA in both those states too, but those jobs are HARD! Just makes you think how bad it is where they came from that they’re willing to do it anyway.
Or is this all just another Trump ploy—throw fear at the Latinos, appease the racist Republicans (practically all), back down. I’m thinking that once Trumpers realize the sheer complexity of mass deportation, they will talk big and delay, another Trump specialty.
Sanctuary... the very history of the word applies to persecuted people of religious faith and we have lots of history of it being used to protect Christians. This MAGA cabal used Christianity as one of their bedrock values but they are not willing to follow the fundamental principles of that faith, taught by their Jesus if you read his words in the Bible. The duplicity is astounding. And their cult leader has no understanding or willingness to be a faithful follower of those teachings but duped the masses with his propaganda. And the real life impact on the victims may not be death but it will be making their lives a living hell on earth. The MAGA are ok with that.
This is from the Biden administration: The new figures released by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) do show some 13,000 non-citizens convicted of homicide were on its records and not in its custody. Do you support deporting those 13,000 who were convicted of homicide, considering the real life impact on their victims, or you don't view the victims of immigrants as victims? How far would your Christian faith would go?
You think it is ok to punish the population for the crimes of a small portion? How many US citizens are on the books as wanted and not in custody? The 13,000 could be dealt with under current laws.
what population punishment are you talking about? deporting criminals who illegally crossed the border and killed people here will save US millions of dollars instead of keeping them in custody or have them roam the streets, looking to commit more crime. Tell this people of LA who recently caught the illegal immigrant out on probation with a blow torch just about to set a pile of wood on fire in the fire zone. There is a big difference between seeking asylum from a prosecution for religious or political views and seeking asylum to commit crimes.
THG - I'm not sure what stats you're using. Please consider that deportation isn't necessarily the 1st step that occurs now, or is planned by Trump.
Consider your example of someone convicted of murder. Are you saying they should go scott-free on that crime, they should just be deported? That's pretty generous of you. You realize that their home country may not recognize whatever court process occurred in the USA, nor carry out any legal punishment a US court ordered for the murder.
But if you say 1st punish them for murder here, then deport... then you're gonna pay to incarcerate possibly for life, or pay the costs of trying to pursue capital punishment if in a jurisdiction that allows. That's a diff discussion but you can find stats on that cost (not inexpensive).
Note that the private prison industry is fair excited about the expansion opportunities for imprisoning more people on immigration charges. When it comes to "millions of dollars" you ain't seen nothin yet.
I did a little digging on this number and found that while 13,000 non citizens are not detained by ICE, they may well be in custody by federal, state or local LE. For instance, Zacarias Moussaoui (9/11) is not in ICE custody; he is in high security prison in Colorado and is counted among the 13,000. 13,000 convicted non citizen murderers are not 'roaming the streets.' That Mr Trump would use this misleading data point is not surprising, he's a known and frequent liar.
Alondra - great point. So let's take Moussaoui as an example: all in favor of deporting him somewhere, where we'll have NO say over whether he stays in custody? Even if his terrorist days are winding down due to age & being out of the loop, what's his influence & propaganda value on the loose somewhere?
Similar issues apply to many convicted foreign nationals in US lock-up - "deportation" can easily mean "turning them loose outside the US." Is that always sensible strategy for the safety & security of Americans?
Maybe, just maybe, this ain't so simple
I read that also. That is the problem of using only part of the facts when trying to make a point. Thanks for highlighting this.
The unknown counterpoint between words and reality is, in this case, well worth noting. The potential for tremendous damage, collateral and otherwise, is there.
the chink in their armor is the economic side effects which theyre ignoring or even lying about. they think they can handle everything else and even the worst imagery imaginable ain't gonna do it (in their minds).
Kudos to The Bulwark for publishing this newsletter and kudos to Adrian for the writing. I look forward to each installment.
Agreed. I greatly appreciate the focus and depth of this newsletter on this issue. I hate that we need it, but I am grateful we have it.
Thank you Jane! That’s nice of you to say