0:00
/
16:42
Transcript
0:00
SPEAKER 2
Hey everyone, I'm JVL here with my Bulwark colleague, Will Sommer, and RFK Jr. has gotten himself in a little bit of hot water. He made the controversial statement via tweet that the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine is the best way to prevent measles. And this has made his supporters want to set their hair on fire. Well,
0:38
it's like a guy comes out and is like, water is wet and a bunch of insane people lose their damn minds. Will, can you explain to me what is going on in this insane asylum that we call America?
0:51
SPEAKER 1
Yeah, I mean, this really tells you where we've come to now. I mean, so RFK obviously is a famous anti-vaccine activist, vaccine critic. And of course, he now runs HHS. The anti-vax people were thrilled and they thought, you know, basically this is our king and he's going to shut down all the vaccines.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s tepid support of the MMR vaccine amid a measles outbreak in Texas that’s lead to the deaths of two children has spurred backlash from his supporters. Jonathan V. Last and Will Sommer break it down.

Leave a comment

As always: Watch, listen, and leave a comment. Bulwark+ Takes is home to short videos, livestreams, and event archives exclusively for Bulwark+ members.

Don’t care for video? Use the controls on the left side of the player to toggle to audio.

Add Bulwark+ Takes feed to your player of choice, here.

Discussion about this video

User's avatar
Cosmic Debris's avatar

Do you remember when Michele Obama was the cheerleader for healthier Americans? She was vilified for trying to get us to eat healthier foods and get more exercise.

And now we have a cheerleader from the conspiracy theory crowd in power. Irony, no?

And the anti Fluoride nonsense goes back to the 1950’s and 1960’s when it was a recruiting tool for the John Birch crowd. My father went up against those loons in our small Ohio town. Is this some sort of recycling?

Expand full comment
Roderick's avatar

When the MAGA inquisition begins, don't float on water or you'll be burned at the stake.

Expand full comment
MAP's avatar
Apr 8Edited

Crazies on the left do not consider themselves to be Dems or members of the Dem party. In fact they hate us, which is proof of the horseshoe theory.

And no, Dems do not welcome or even give credence to the loons on the far left. Conservatives laughed at theirs behind closed doors while remaining mum in public—until they took over the party.

Believing in conspiracies is fun and you can find a community. That is the real problem with Americans; they feel too isolated and alone. Finding comfort among people who think they way you do is like a coming home. Movies, television shows, and novels centered on conspiracy theories—look at the recent success of Paradise on Hulu (now coming to ABC and full disclosure, I enjoyed it)—are perennial hits.

And there really are some conspiracies. I am constantly reminded of HRC and the "vast right wing conspiracy." She was absolutely correct but was absolutely pilloried and laughed out for telling the truth. Much of what the right was doing then was hidden to the general public, not because it was done in secret (though some of it was, especially the funding) but because people don't dig deeper into the connections. They didn't know about ALEC for years (and many still don't). Look at Project 2025; a conspiracy to undo the federal govt and bring us christian nationalism that was done in the open.

Of course those aren't nearly as much fun as the sensational like "the Clintons killed Vince Foster" or "1/6 was a false flag operation done by the FBI and the deep state."

Expand full comment
Mia Valdes's avatar

Great chemistry between Will and JVL! Wit and intelligence...can't beat it for communicating effectively.

Expand full comment
Wolfpack Dem's avatar

This is what I have been chewing over in my head for some time now. It's tactically smart from Trump, but was only possible because he has nary a shred of human decency or morality.

I've always vaguely referred to it as (probably read it somewhere, but just don't recall) the rule of 10%. As in, you can get 10% of the public to believe almost anything. That is indeed (as Will noted) well-illustrated by the anti-vaccine/modern medicine kooks AND the 9-11 truthers. Not really ideologically based. Just insane person stuff.

Trump 2024 is the first person to really, REALLY commit to "I will let society burn/children die in order to get 100% of the crazy vote."

Why is that tactically smart? It took his "base" up to 45% (because I believe in a hard 40% floor each way based on ideology). He just needed "permission structures" and various hand-waving to nudge that up from 45 to the 49-50 range. That's way easier than doing the same starting from 40%.

VP Harris, on the other hand, started from 40%. She almost got there, and certainly did a way better persuasion job than Trump did. But his head start was decisive, because he very plausibly sold that he would give the crazies what they wanted.

And because the crazies delivered for him, he will return the favor. Just like with the Prosperity Gospel evangelicals.

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Expand full comment
Kelliann K's avatar

JVL’s face when Israel comes up! Priceless!

Expand full comment
Bruce Lawrence's avatar

RFK Jr. told us that the MMR vaccine is effective, but he didn't say it's safe! I suspect that, after a second death, he might see it as the lesser evil in this context. But he will never recommend it in a non-pandemic context.

Expand full comment
Jennifer VN's avatar

New poll- which voice is worse to listen to: Jr or Saur? I thank the Gods for closed captions

Expand full comment
Christine Tachner's avatar

A third type of MAHA is via the Autism Mom route. I lost a couple old friends that way. I saw it coming years ago, and so Nicole Shanahan did not surprise me.

Expand full comment
Kelliann K's avatar

I remember frigging Don Imus talking about this endlessly too with his pretend doctor wife.

Expand full comment
Carrie's avatar

I am really surprised that RFK Jr went to Texas at all. Pleased that he showed a little bit of empathy? maybe some rational thinking about vaccines? Dead children might have that effect.

But, please, no, Will, on the Dems embracing conspiracy theories. I hope that was a joke!

Expand full comment
Reldas's avatar

"I affirm as my conviction that class laws, placing capital above labor, are more dangerous to the Republic at this hour than chattel slavery in the days of its haughtiest supremacy. Labor is prior to and above capital, and deserves much higher consideration." — Abraham Lincoln

Expand full comment
Jan Dorsett's avatar

One of my all-time favorite quotes! Lincoln had his finger on the pulse. Dang, where’s our Lincoln today?

Expand full comment
Martin Cosentino's avatar

Jan, he just made a historic record breaking speech in the Senate - and may run for president in 2028.

His name is Cory Booker and he will crush the MAGATS!!

Expand full comment
Sherm's avatar

Chomsky didn't argue that 9/11 was a conspiracy; he argued that it was an expected consequence of US actions overseas. In other words, it wasn't "they hate us for our freedom," it was "they hate us because the CIA helped take their freedom." One can disagree with that (I find it a bit simplistic) but comparing it to someone who thinks 'Jews did 9/11' is a pretty gross mischaracterization of the argument.

Expand full comment
Gary McGee's avatar

"Chomsky" didn't say sh about 911. That's a line someone throws out to try to sound smart. Having said that, maybe someone said what you said. You make some interesting points. Next time, I would like to hear what Sherm thinks. You got this buddy. No need for universal grammer among friends. ...and any reasonable discussion against a conspiracy has got my vote.

Expand full comment
Sherm's avatar

There was literally an entire book of Chomsky saying stuff about 9/11 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/9-11_(book)

Expand full comment
Christine Tachner's avatar

Thank you, Will, for wading through this dreck and saving us the psychic damage. How do you not let it get to you? I’d have a stroke. 🤯

Expand full comment
Rich Willson's avatar

“Three can keep a secret if two are dead”

Ben Franklin

There are no real conspiracy theories, for most there is an explanation and most importantly people always talk

Expand full comment
Gary McGee's avatar

Rich, seriously, did Ben really say that? That is bad ass.

Expand full comment
Rich Willson's avatar

Yup, the founders didn’t mess around as the King of England wanted them dead

Expand full comment
Jan Dorsett's avatar

My question, too. It’s harder and harder these days to know!!!!!

Expand full comment
monoview21's avatar

give them time and they will expose themselves...... or in the circular firing squad, they will end it for themselves.

Expand full comment
Wendy's avatar

Dying at Will calling RFK’s supporters his “fans”🤣🤣🤣

Expand full comment
James Glover's avatar

Will Sommer is the embodiment of JVL's "put a quarter into the machine" metaphor when you ask him about some right wing figure or right wing drama on the internet.

Expand full comment
jpg's avatar

MAHA is the merging of the Idaho end of timers and the California Goopers (as in Gwyneth Paltrow).

Expand full comment
Rick G's avatar

RFKjr Tweeted that under duress.

Expand full comment
James Woodruff's avatar

You guys can drop 15min shows every 5min and I’ll figure out a way to listen, lol. My conspiracy theory is that the Wormwood comic by Ben Templesmith is real, Kennedy is actually dead and being driven by a necromancer worm. They don’t want you to know.

Expand full comment
Gary McGee's avatar

James, that is the only conspiracy theory I will consider prescribing to. You sir, have a movie script if you play this right...

Expand full comment
Wendy's avatar

🤣🤣🤣👏

Expand full comment
DJ's avatar

Will is right that the left should raise the salience of Epstein.

For a while I've thought about starting a site to track Republican pedophiles. It seems like at least once a week a minister or legislator or police officer gets busted for it.

Expand full comment
monoview21's avatar

Great idea! That will keep you busy. When was a non MAGApublican implicated for prostitution, pedophilia. rape/sexual assault?

Expand full comment
Lawrence Evers's avatar

Have noticed a large number of Substack posts claiming the loss to Trump was due to Musk and Starlink. This is an extension of the claims of the vast voter suppression by the Republicans resultin in Kamelas loss. Seems that the right isn't alone in seeking to blame negative outcomes on nefarious actors rather than their own shortcomings.

Expand full comment
Gary McGee's avatar

Lawrence, thank you for talking about Starlink. I would hope the next Democrat president, or (fantasy) old school Republican President would nationalize Starlink on day-one of their Administration. If Musk wants to rant on X about it, he can do it from Leavenworth. Or, he could be deported. In one of his cars to outer space to the asteroid belt as an Ambassador of the United States. ...it gets me to sleep at night.

Expand full comment
Jan's avatar

Please, out of respect for his father, do not call this nut job RFK. He is RFK Jr. Jr!

Expand full comment
Wendy's avatar

We should for real start referring to him as just “Junior” without context🤣

Expand full comment
Robin Sandberg's avatar

He’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t

Expand full comment
Emy Donavan's avatar

“A Susie Wiles Joint” 🤣🤣🤣

Expand full comment
Minna Barrett's avatar

Because RFKjr’s antivaxxers followers are low information fools. What can we say. Polio-gone; measles-mumps-rubella-gone when vaccines are universal; diphtheria-gone; whooping cough-gone; should we decide that living in the Middle Ages was good for humans?

Cool-let’s beg for the Bubonic Plague to return??? What!!!!! What is wrong with murykkkans and the fools like RFKjr who can’t get any profile unless he does something dangerous, unscientific and demented.

Expand full comment
Jan's avatar

Tomorrow RFKJr will flip. Why are you even discussing this?

Expand full comment
Sky 777's avatar

Worm Brain has supporters? Really? Besides the Worm? Who knew?

Expand full comment
Betsyann Thornton's avatar

Look, stop with the Worm Brain name calling. The worm died. It starved to death. R.I.P. Chad!🙏🏽❤️‍🩹🌷

Expand full comment
Sky 777's avatar

Nope. The Worm is still with him and thus with us. Worm will live on in infamy.

Expand full comment
Reldas's avatar

My sister-in-law loves him more than Trump.

Expand full comment
Gary McGee's avatar

As we all know, you can't pick your family (especially the in-laws). Hang in there.

Expand full comment