I’m a retired Army Counterterrorism/Counterintelligence officer (‘73-‘94). The good General’s comments sum up so well the horror, frustration, and anger I’ve felt ever since this scandal began. We can disagree on domestic/foreign policy issues, but this willful, mendacious betrayal of his oath and the national interests is beyond…
I’m a retired Army Counterterrorism/Counterintelligence officer (‘73-‘94). The good General’s comments sum up so well the horror, frustration, and anger I’ve felt ever since this scandal began. We can disagree on domestic/foreign policy issues, but this willful, mendacious betrayal of his oath and the national interests is beyond the pale. Anyone who forgives or covers for his behavior in this situation is a pathetic creature who will be kept free only by the efforts of people with far better character than them.
AMEN AMEN AMEN. You speak with knowledge and experience, as does the General. Your truths must be more widely circulated to counteract the misinformation and self-serving lies spouted by traitor tRump.
I cannot believe the people making excuses for this orange traitor. They call themselves "true patriots" - making a mockery of those words. They can wrap themselves up in all the American flags, but they are dead wrong. This former president betrayed his country and the people he was obligated to protect, even them.
Thank you for your service and assessment. Hopefully others in the service feel likewise and place their emphasis on the oath they swore to protect and serve the Constitution. That they similarly find this man as vile and threatening to the future of our Republic is an essential need for our well being, and that of our children and grandchildren.
Thank you, Mr. Cannon, for your voice here. Are you able to speak to why so many active-duty and retired military have gone to the extreme, why they would ever support someone like trump in the first place, and how we can begin to bring them back closer to the center? I know it's a lot to ask, but it is something that has perplexed me for several years now.
I’ve wondered about this myself. I put it down to: 1) Separate world from The civilian life; 2) Chain of command and expectations that you follow orders and don’t question them; and 3) Lack of appreciation of what a vibrant, free society should look like.
It's likely because the military has an authoritarian structure. One obeys without question the orders of the superiors. No voting allowed. So it tends to attract people comfortable with that order.
It works well for the military but not so much with the rest of society.
Since the military went "all voluntary" in the early 70's, it has become decidedly more right of center, especially among officers and non-coms. Without mandatory service (the draft), the military, as a whole, no longer reflects the U.S. population.
I am fully in agreement with your position. Yet I also know well a retired Air Force colonel, a veteran of two wars (Korea and Vietnam), and a fine, kind, generous person in so many ways BUT also someone for whom no one and nothing can be too conservative, and for whom whatever Donald Trump does, as long as the letter "R" remains next to his name, cannot be wrong. It is the conundrum we face in a nation of 300+ million people, that no matter how logical and self-evident something seems to be to us, others will see it very differently based on circumstances and personal beliefs. It is at once both the strength and the weakness of our democracy in action.
I have a relative who sounds exactly the same--Air Force colonel but maybe just served in Vietnam. Same blindness--repeating what he hears on Fox about the "socialists." (I asked him if he likes his social security checks in response.) These R folks still think of themselves as conservative, but the GOP is now anything but that. "R" now means radical. Most of what I hear from their ilk is pure anarchism and treason (Bannon is the poster boy for this). May the scales fall from their eyes indeed.
Agreed, though I prefer to think that the R now stands for reactionary. And Bannon is definitely treasonous, but he’s no anarchist. He actively supports totalitarianism. He loves Putin and has served as an actual advisor to dictators like Orban and would-be dictators like Trump and Balsonaro. His dream is a totalitarian state where he alone has the King’s ear.
"... others will see it very differently based on circumstances and personal beliefs." And, I would add, where they get their news and information. After three years of active duty in the Army, I can attest that there were and are those with Eagles or Stars on their shoulders who are morons. Many dayroom TVs are permanently tuned to Fox on the orders of the brass.
I couldn't agree with you more. As a retired military guy myself, I just find it unbelievable that anyone who has been in the military could read this indictment and try to defend Trump.
MAGA has their pre-conceived "answers" (i.e. Trump is innocent; this is a witch hunt) and they spend their days cherry-picking news to pretend like their argument is supported. FoxNews is more than happy to provide that to them...
This piece of MAGA seems to have truly taken hold when Conway elevated lies to "alternative facts" and to have gone downhill from there. But, then, if a Republican prior to that had any values, much less any core values, or any core, any true center, they would have rejected her statement as well as TFG's lies and crimes.
I wonder how many of the MAGA's defending Trump have actually read the indictment and understand the inconvenient facts? I suspect very few and those who have will fall back on their equivalent of "well I don't always like his tweets" and move to "well it wasn't great but he shouldn't be prosecuted because something something HIlary something something Biden."
Spot on. Most of them rely upon Fox to "curate" the report for them.
Clearly the Fox business model knows this and loves it. The Dominion case demonstrated that they'll even proffer lies if it helps their bottom line and retains its viewership.
Ironic. I’m a former naval aviator, although I was too young for Vietnam, many officers and senior enlisted wore the green, yellow and red striped Vietnam Service Medal. Nobody knows who went in trump’s place when his daddy had a tenant podiatrist write the bone spurs letter. Draftees had a 30% casualty rate. Did the man trump forced to go come back alive? In one piece? Sane?
Trump lost my vote (I was GOP at the time) when he dissed McCain about being captured. Even more than the whole being a veteran thing...what bothered me the most was that someone who hadn't served could be so callous and ignorant to say something like that. I knew he was not someone I wanted in charge of our nukes.
So...it's really hard for me to see vets stick up for him after that. They still HATE with a passion...Jane Fonda because she peacefully protested against the Vietnam war....but can forgive Trump for actually dissing someone who nearly lost their life while serving their country?
I agree with what you said except for the characterization of Jane Fonda. It wasn't just that she protested the war. It was because she did it by going to North Vietnam. That photo of her sitting in an NVA anti-aircraft gun emplacement was a killer.
I'm really glad you pointed that out. I had forgotten the part about her going to North Vietnam. Yah...I didn't like that at all and that was pretty thoughtless. You know that she has since apologized.
Measure that against that Trump gave North Korean leader a couple of summits in front of the world. If Obama had done that...we'd still be hearing about it. Nuff said...
Thanks for reminding about the reason they called her Hanoi Jane.
Truly. McCain was an authentic hero and suffered greatly for his country. He was politically too conservative for my taste, but he was a man of honour and integrity and always worthy of respect. The ignorant foul abuse that tRump heaped upon him was obscene and a perfect reveal of the sick mind of the man who seeks another presidency.
My sentiments exactly. McCain was a war hero and an honorable man. I feel similarly about Liz Cheney and Adam Kissinger - both exuding integrity and grave concern for our democracy. That being said, I would never vote for any of them because of their conservative policies.
Remember that he did take a Purple Heart that was offered by a veteran. Said that he always wanted one and this was the easiest way for him to get it. That and dogging Khizr Khan when Khan talked about the death of his son, who was in the military.
Too many examples of unfitness, for any role in government, much less Commander in Chief.
You kind of described my dad. He is more anti-Democrat than pro-Trump (I think and hope), so will vote for anyone with an R. He's retired Army and deeply cares about the military.
I will not disagree with your perspective. He was an officer in the Vietnam War and predates boomers. He sees that the world has changed in a way that he does not like or understand and, as he told me, this is not what he fought in the Vietnam war for. His side of our political conversations have always focused on how bad/stupid/dangerous/destructive the Democrats are. Apparently Obama wanted to get rid of the military and FDR was a lousy president because of Social Security. I can't recall him praising Republicans, though. Perhaps it's supposed to be obvious that they are better. Whether he's dupe, deliberate in his views or just a person of a particular time can be debated.
I voted for her as well, because I thought that she would do as well as any other capable person, not because she'd be the first woman president. And her opponent was Trump, which made it even easier. From everything I read about him and his history, there was no way I could have ever voted for him.
Hillary said that Bill was the only guy who ever made her laugh. I think they were very simpatico. I don't see Melania saying the same thing about Trump.
Charlie,
I’m a retired Army Counterterrorism/Counterintelligence officer (‘73-‘94). The good General’s comments sum up so well the horror, frustration, and anger I’ve felt ever since this scandal began. We can disagree on domestic/foreign policy issues, but this willful, mendacious betrayal of his oath and the national interests is beyond the pale. Anyone who forgives or covers for his behavior in this situation is a pathetic creature who will be kept free only by the efforts of people with far better character than them.
Tom Cannon
Asheville, NC
Well said sir!
AMEN AMEN AMEN. You speak with knowledge and experience, as does the General. Your truths must be more widely circulated to counteract the misinformation and self-serving lies spouted by traitor tRump.
Thank you, Mr. Cannon, for your service.
I cannot believe the people making excuses for this orange traitor. They call themselves "true patriots" - making a mockery of those words. They can wrap themselves up in all the American flags, but they are dead wrong. This former president betrayed his country and the people he was obligated to protect, even them.
The betrayal, just like the stupid, burns.
Thank you for your service and assessment. Hopefully others in the service feel likewise and place their emphasis on the oath they swore to protect and serve the Constitution. That they similarly find this man as vile and threatening to the future of our Republic is an essential need for our well being, and that of our children and grandchildren.
Excellent response. Thank You
Thank you, Mr. Cannon, for your voice here. Are you able to speak to why so many active-duty and retired military have gone to the extreme, why they would ever support someone like trump in the first place, and how we can begin to bring them back closer to the center? I know it's a lot to ask, but it is something that has perplexed me for several years now.
MM,
I’ve wondered about this myself. I put it down to: 1) Separate world from The civilian life; 2) Chain of command and expectations that you follow orders and don’t question them; and 3) Lack of appreciation of what a vibrant, free society should look like.
Tom
It's likely because the military has an authoritarian structure. One obeys without question the orders of the superiors. No voting allowed. So it tends to attract people comfortable with that order.
It works well for the military but not so much with the rest of society.
Since the military went "all voluntary" in the early 70's, it has become decidedly more right of center, especially among officers and non-coms. Without mandatory service (the draft), the military, as a whole, no longer reflects the U.S. population.
I am fully in agreement with your position. Yet I also know well a retired Air Force colonel, a veteran of two wars (Korea and Vietnam), and a fine, kind, generous person in so many ways BUT also someone for whom no one and nothing can be too conservative, and for whom whatever Donald Trump does, as long as the letter "R" remains next to his name, cannot be wrong. It is the conundrum we face in a nation of 300+ million people, that no matter how logical and self-evident something seems to be to us, others will see it very differently based on circumstances and personal beliefs. It is at once both the strength and the weakness of our democracy in action.
I have a relative who sounds exactly the same--Air Force colonel but maybe just served in Vietnam. Same blindness--repeating what he hears on Fox about the "socialists." (I asked him if he likes his social security checks in response.) These R folks still think of themselves as conservative, but the GOP is now anything but that. "R" now means radical. Most of what I hear from their ilk is pure anarchism and treason (Bannon is the poster boy for this). May the scales fall from their eyes indeed.
Agreed, though I prefer to think that the R now stands for reactionary. And Bannon is definitely treasonous, but he’s no anarchist. He actively supports totalitarianism. He loves Putin and has served as an actual advisor to dictators like Orban and would-be dictators like Trump and Balsonaro. His dream is a totalitarian state where he alone has the King’s ear.
Yes, we boomers are indeed dying in droves, and I’m trying not to take sentiments like yours personally. ;-)
"... others will see it very differently based on circumstances and personal beliefs." And, I would add, where they get their news and information. After three years of active duty in the Army, I can attest that there were and are those with Eagles or Stars on their shoulders who are morons. Many dayroom TVs are permanently tuned to Fox on the orders of the brass.
I couldn't agree with you more. As a retired military guy myself, I just find it unbelievable that anyone who has been in the military could read this indictment and try to defend Trump.
MAGA has their pre-conceived "answers" (i.e. Trump is innocent; this is a witch hunt) and they spend their days cherry-picking news to pretend like their argument is supported. FoxNews is more than happy to provide that to them...
This piece of MAGA seems to have truly taken hold when Conway elevated lies to "alternative facts" and to have gone downhill from there. But, then, if a Republican prior to that had any values, much less any core values, or any core, any true center, they would have rejected her statement as well as TFG's lies and crimes.
I wonder how many of the MAGA's defending Trump have actually read the indictment and understand the inconvenient facts? I suspect very few and those who have will fall back on their equivalent of "well I don't always like his tweets" and move to "well it wasn't great but he shouldn't be prosecuted because something something HIlary something something Biden."
It will all boil down to “I don’t care” for them. It’s impermeable.
Spot on. Most of them rely upon Fox to "curate" the report for them.
Clearly the Fox business model knows this and loves it. The Dominion case demonstrated that they'll even proffer lies if it helps their bottom line and retains its viewership.
Fox is an example of capitalism consuming itself.
As the saying goes, when they hang the first capitalist there will be two others there bidding to supply the rope
Ironic. I’m a former naval aviator, although I was too young for Vietnam, many officers and senior enlisted wore the green, yellow and red striped Vietnam Service Medal. Nobody knows who went in trump’s place when his daddy had a tenant podiatrist write the bone spurs letter. Draftees had a 30% casualty rate. Did the man trump forced to go come back alive? In one piece? Sane?
Tuck Frump.
Trump lost my vote (I was GOP at the time) when he dissed McCain about being captured. Even more than the whole being a veteran thing...what bothered me the most was that someone who hadn't served could be so callous and ignorant to say something like that. I knew he was not someone I wanted in charge of our nukes.
So...it's really hard for me to see vets stick up for him after that. They still HATE with a passion...Jane Fonda because she peacefully protested against the Vietnam war....but can forgive Trump for actually dissing someone who nearly lost their life while serving their country?
I agree with what you said except for the characterization of Jane Fonda. It wasn't just that she protested the war. It was because she did it by going to North Vietnam. That photo of her sitting in an NVA anti-aircraft gun emplacement was a killer.
I'm really glad you pointed that out. I had forgotten the part about her going to North Vietnam. Yah...I didn't like that at all and that was pretty thoughtless. You know that she has since apologized.
Measure that against that Trump gave North Korean leader a couple of summits in front of the world. If Obama had done that...we'd still be hearing about it. Nuff said...
Thanks for reminding about the reason they called her Hanoi Jane.
Some people did stupid stuff when they were young, and admit it. And apologize.
"Nuff said..."
Yep.
Truly. McCain was an authentic hero and suffered greatly for his country. He was politically too conservative for my taste, but he was a man of honour and integrity and always worthy of respect. The ignorant foul abuse that tRump heaped upon him was obscene and a perfect reveal of the sick mind of the man who seeks another presidency.
My sentiments exactly. McCain was a war hero and an honorable man. I feel similarly about Liz Cheney and Adam Kissinger - both exuding integrity and grave concern for our democracy. That being said, I would never vote for any of them because of their conservative policies.
Remember that he did take a Purple Heart that was offered by a veteran. Said that he always wanted one and this was the easiest way for him to get it. That and dogging Khizr Khan when Khan talked about the death of his son, who was in the military.
Too many examples of unfitness, for any role in government, much less Commander in Chief.
List of Trump's cruelty, indecency, immorality, amorality, etc. would fill pages. We individually can't remember them all.
A decent person, no. A decent person would likely have pulled this guy up on the stage and shown him some appreciation, praise and honor.
It’s so weird to me. I hope at some point the scales fall from their eyes.
FoxNews is definitely tickling itching ears these days...
You kind of described my dad. He is more anti-Democrat than pro-Trump (I think and hope), so will vote for anyone with an R. He's retired Army and deeply cares about the military.
I will not disagree with your perspective. He was an officer in the Vietnam War and predates boomers. He sees that the world has changed in a way that he does not like or understand and, as he told me, this is not what he fought in the Vietnam war for. His side of our political conversations have always focused on how bad/stupid/dangerous/destructive the Democrats are. Apparently Obama wanted to get rid of the military and FDR was a lousy president because of Social Security. I can't recall him praising Republicans, though. Perhaps it's supposed to be obvious that they are better. Whether he's dupe, deliberate in his views or just a person of a particular time can be debated.
I voted for her as well, because I thought that she would do as well as any other capable person, not because she'd be the first woman president. And her opponent was Trump, which made it even easier. From everything I read about him and his history, there was no way I could have ever voted for him.
Hillary said that Bill was the only guy who ever made her laugh. I think they were very simpatico. I don't see Melania saying the same thing about Trump.
I love your last sentence. It's just perfect. And thanks for your service.
Ms. Fall,
Thank you, and I’m happy to still be here.
Tom
The tom nichols approach.