That was exactly my point. Marc Elias who has done such great work fighting gerrymandering has appeared to put his Liberal policies ahead of appreciation for Liz and Adam’s excellent work trying to hold Everyone to the Constitution & the Law. Ironic don’t you think?
That was exactly my point. Marc Elias who has done such great work fighting gerrymandering has appeared to put his Liberal policies ahead of appreciation for Liz and Adam’s excellent work trying to hold Everyone to the Constitution & the Law. Ironic don’t you think?
I get the appreciation for Liz Cheney's and Adam Kinzinger's work on the J6 committee. I share it.
But why this demand (and it is a demand) that everyone on the Left needs to similarly support them or they are bad allies.
Wouldn't the same logic demand that Marc Elias get the same appreciation from the Right for his successful work in court against Rudy and Jenna? Where is that support from Never Trumpists?
I mean we can go down the road of who is providing more support to whom in the fight against Trumpism. I think Democrats would come out very well in that conversation.
For example:
-Utah Democrats are foregoing running a candidate in Utah against Sen. Mike Lee to throw their support behind Evan McMullin.
-Wyoming Democrats are considering what they can do to help Cheney win her primary.
-Pelosi named Cheney and Kinzinger to the J6 Committee over the objections of McCarthy.
-Bennie Thompson and the other Democrats on the J6 Committee have made Cheney and Kinzinger the faces of the J6 Committee.
-Where they can, Democrats across the country are voting in Republican primaries to try and keep the most MAGA candidates off the ballot.
And on the Never Trump side we have . . . *crickets*. Or if not *crickets* we have daily attacks and eye rolling at how bad the Dems are at this or that and how the Dems are going to allow Trumpism to win because they aren't doing A or B correctly.
I've seen plenty of Never-Trump praise for the Utah Dems and the J6 Committee Dems. We don't really need more, because the more NTers praise Dems, the more they reduce their leverage among the swing voters that liberals need them to reach. I think a good strategy for *all* of us is for the NTers to continue to pick fights with signs of progressive Left willingness to leave votes on the table by rejecting a big-tent approach, while continuing to make Trumpism their central target. I think liberals, cynics and true believers alike, need to lay off the NTers and make some emergency compromises--the NTers have already come much further than liberals will have to.
If a segment of swing voters need to see Democrats attacked in order to consider not voting republican this year then I reject the idea that they were actually swing voters to begin with. They are republican who happen to be registered as independents.
"Swing voter", imo, is a useless term because in reality they don't actually swing all that much.
If they swing, Cynic, then they are by definition swing voters. I wasn't speaking of registered independents. There were plenty of registered Democrats who turned out to be swing voters in 2016, much to our dismay. They were targeted by Trump and he won as many as he needed. I agree with you that swinging voters isn't easy--they don't swing that often--but, as I'm sure you know, one swing is worth two votes, so it can be worth the effort to attract them. A portion of those who swing may also wind up switching longer-term, as any survey of MAGA faithful will reveal.
It's not that they need to see Democrats attacked, it's that they can see themselves as keeping part of their conservative identities when voting as the NTers urge them.
To further this point, it isn't just swing voters. It can be occasional voters or protest third party voters. A Trump voter who stays home may not be a +2, but it is a +1.
What I'd like to see rather than these attacks on democrats who many see as going to far is articles and points that put them into perspective as the small, but vocal minority that they are. Convince a wavering Trump voter that democrats aren't pure evil, they just have a 'whacky' fringe, and perhaps you convince him to stay home.
I agree, knowltok. I do think that NTers send both types of messages (+2 and +1) when they write about liberals as allies and urge that liberals distance the Democratic Party from progressive rhetoric and more extreme positions.
That was exactly my point. Marc Elias who has done such great work fighting gerrymandering has appeared to put his Liberal policies ahead of appreciation for Liz and Adam’s excellent work trying to hold Everyone to the Constitution & the Law. Ironic don’t you think?
I get the appreciation for Liz Cheney's and Adam Kinzinger's work on the J6 committee. I share it.
But why this demand (and it is a demand) that everyone on the Left needs to similarly support them or they are bad allies.
Wouldn't the same logic demand that Marc Elias get the same appreciation from the Right for his successful work in court against Rudy and Jenna? Where is that support from Never Trumpists?
I mean we can go down the road of who is providing more support to whom in the fight against Trumpism. I think Democrats would come out very well in that conversation.
For example:
-Utah Democrats are foregoing running a candidate in Utah against Sen. Mike Lee to throw their support behind Evan McMullin.
-Wyoming Democrats are considering what they can do to help Cheney win her primary.
-Pelosi named Cheney and Kinzinger to the J6 Committee over the objections of McCarthy.
-Bennie Thompson and the other Democrats on the J6 Committee have made Cheney and Kinzinger the faces of the J6 Committee.
-Where they can, Democrats across the country are voting in Republican primaries to try and keep the most MAGA candidates off the ballot.
And on the Never Trump side we have . . . *crickets*. Or if not *crickets* we have daily attacks and eye rolling at how bad the Dems are at this or that and how the Dems are going to allow Trumpism to win because they aren't doing A or B correctly.
But Elias and Winslow tweets are the problem.
I've seen plenty of Never-Trump praise for the Utah Dems and the J6 Committee Dems. We don't really need more, because the more NTers praise Dems, the more they reduce their leverage among the swing voters that liberals need them to reach. I think a good strategy for *all* of us is for the NTers to continue to pick fights with signs of progressive Left willingness to leave votes on the table by rejecting a big-tent approach, while continuing to make Trumpism their central target. I think liberals, cynics and true believers alike, need to lay off the NTers and make some emergency compromises--the NTers have already come much further than liberals will have to.
If a segment of swing voters need to see Democrats attacked in order to consider not voting republican this year then I reject the idea that they were actually swing voters to begin with. They are republican who happen to be registered as independents.
"Swing voter", imo, is a useless term because in reality they don't actually swing all that much.
If they swing, Cynic, then they are by definition swing voters. I wasn't speaking of registered independents. There were plenty of registered Democrats who turned out to be swing voters in 2016, much to our dismay. They were targeted by Trump and he won as many as he needed. I agree with you that swinging voters isn't easy--they don't swing that often--but, as I'm sure you know, one swing is worth two votes, so it can be worth the effort to attract them. A portion of those who swing may also wind up switching longer-term, as any survey of MAGA faithful will reveal.
It's not that they need to see Democrats attacked, it's that they can see themselves as keeping part of their conservative identities when voting as the NTers urge them.
To further this point, it isn't just swing voters. It can be occasional voters or protest third party voters. A Trump voter who stays home may not be a +2, but it is a +1.
What I'd like to see rather than these attacks on democrats who many see as going to far is articles and points that put them into perspective as the small, but vocal minority that they are. Convince a wavering Trump voter that democrats aren't pure evil, they just have a 'whacky' fringe, and perhaps you convince him to stay home.
I agree, knowltok. I do think that NTers send both types of messages (+2 and +1) when they write about liberals as allies and urge that liberals distance the Democratic Party from progressive rhetoric and more extreme positions.
great point