If someone keeps choosing an authoritarian and likes the authoritarian even more when he does authoritarian stuff, then maybe they just . . . like authoritarianism?
It has been hard for me to accept so many Americans (including family and friends) actually want a dictator to force their dominance and world view on me and others. They are historically illiterate , not realizing the boot will eventual be put on their necks too. We have to resist this fascist movement .
This is a very defensive piece. A better approach is taken by Edward Luce in the Financial Times:
It is easy to dismiss the 45 per cent or more of America that would vote for Donald Trump as mad or bad. There are plenty of both, but Democrats are delusional if they think that saying so again and again is the way to get Joe Biden re-elected. I have written about the liberal world’s intellectual shortsightedness on this question on many occasions, most recently here. Any attempt to do so gets instantly discounted as special pleading or, worse — giving comfort and succour to the enemy. That is how a hermetically-sealed universe helps to perpetuate some of the resentments that fuel Trump. You cannot keep telling people that they are idiots or racists and expect that they will see the light and change their vote. Is the American left in the business of defeating Trump, or merely of feeling unsullied when he wins? I sometimes wonder.
In the 1980s, people who study cults say there were about 3,000 cults of one kind or another in the U.S., with a total membership of up to 1 million. These included cults such as the "Moonies," and the Jonestown congregation (and we know how that ended).
Now, we are faced with a staggering 70 million deranged cult members who vote and sacrifice themselves, even go to their deaths or to jail, for the maniacal street preacher Trump. These people have yet to be systematically studied, and at this point there is no time to study them.
There is only time to mobilize better than them, and deprive their psychopathic - I mean this quite literally, he meets all the needed DSMN-5 criteria - immoral and lawless 'leader.'
We can, and I think we should study these cultists as best we can later - even though they are usually paranoid, averse to science and reasoning, and so may balk at being part of a study.
For now, we have to focus on beating them at the ballot box, because we can't count on judges like Eileen Cannon, or business world schmucks like Jamie Diamond who would sell his democracy down the river for a better tax rate - to do what needs to be done.
Trump is a monster, and he surrounds himself with monsters, and he brings the worst out in them, and he will f&*$%#k our country up for a generation if not forever, unless we can keep his greedy, incompetent, malicious bum out of the White House for good.
"2. Guardrails" for democracy - ONLY work on law-abiding people who want democracy - NOT MAGAts, or tfg.
And This is one strong reason 14-3 does not call for a vote!
(Good people need to be thinking of contingencies; but also need to listen well to others with different view (including R's!) and make strategic alliances to win the future, not just today's battles. Anyone who is unwilling to listen carefully and compromise strategically with others' 'less good' (but survivable) views, in the name of larger coalition building, is not helping preserve the Republic. )
I'm a few days late but wanted to express a few thoughts. One thing that I've seen others mention is that media like the NY Times have been hammered for years for having a liberal bias. So, as those critics intended, the natural reaction is to bend over backward to be "fair" to the other side, which in this case are the right-wing MAGA types. Is that a good thing? Well no, not in this case, but I think it is understandable.
Second, on the topic of Trump supporters just liking authoritarianism: It occurs to me that this is another pernicious impact of the "big lie". Something like 70% of Republican voters and 40% of ALL voters think the election was "stolen" in some fashion. Well, if you truly believe the election was stolen, then you already think you live in a quasi-authoritarian state. Right? What Trump tried to do - overthrow a free and fair election - MAGAs think Biden already did. So they think democracy has already ended and just want their guy in control of things rather than the evil liberal. Yet another reason why McConnell (and other GOP senators) needed to step up. But as we know, they chickened out, with a few exceptions.
The one part that has always bothered me and I don't understand is how MAGA voters can think Democrats are able to just steal elections, but also think that their vote matters and that they can elect Donald Trump in 2024.
It is very reasonable to the guardrails did not hold, or they held just barely - like, they kept the car of democracy from tumbling all the way down a sheer rock-strewn cliff into the sea, but that car is still hanging at the top, has not been properly rescued and refurbished, and we don’t yet know if that car will be back on the road in ‘24.
Trump was only 1 Mike Pence away from throwing the transition of power into chaos, and exploiting that chaos by running teams of fake electors into DC to further sow confusion. Or, he was only 1 flunky Attorney General way from an ‘official’ pronouncement that the ‘20 election had been ‘rigged’ against him, with even more white nationalist Brownshirts in the streets.
And the guardrails did not at all hold Trump in check, because the seditious swine is just weeks away from clinching the Republican nomination for President, based on his boneheaded voters, the Republican leaders who are terrified by the voters, and based on Trump’s tireless appetite for both lying and threatening.
Reading this way late, JVL, but just need to say I have been a Times subscriber for over 40 years and their treatment of Trump is appalling. I have just started to skip over every Trump article and it is so true about the nauseating portrayal of Trump voters and the lack of inclusion of anything about Biden voters. I doubt the New York Times is getting clicks from people in Iowa or Texas or anywhere that has the people who show up in full Trump regalia to cheer every nonsensical word that comes out of his mouth. Why are they doing this? I wish someone had the answer. Thank you for everything you write. And thank God for The Bulwark. As a Democrat who initially just wanted to hear the other side, I have moved closer and closer to the centrist beliefs that I find here.
I can’t believe I turn to The Bulwark for political commentary. As a progressive it’s shocking to me that this is where I hear the most reasoned discourse about the world we’re now living in.
Much of the issue with the both siderist Trump and MAGA coverage coming from the New York Times and other major media outlets like CNN comes from the way that journalists are trained. Journalists are supposed to be objective and observant and their job is to report on important events and trends without editorializing. Opinions are only supposed to be expressed by columnists and letters to the editor. They also need stuff to write about or broadcast and the easiest way to generate content is to repeat and recycle the same themes over and over again. I also think that there is a lot of sensitivity within the mainstream media to being accused of having a liberal bias. It seems that the New York Times is going out of its way to prove that they're 'objective' and not 'biased' by normalizing Trump and his supporters.
I have read the entire thing. However, you are not only reading the law; you are reading into the law, between the lines as it were, (not the plain text) and then creating hypotheticals that smuggle in unsupported premises. It is silly to call citing an introductory paragraph that states the purpose of the law "cherry picking". I have never been a Democrat or a Republican. I do not care about Democrats winning elections. I care about the best candidate winning elections. However, it is hard to believe that anyone who is or was a Democrat would give credence to anything from right-wing propaganda. Best practice is to avoid all propaganda whether from the left or the right..
At this juncture the most important thing is to help make sure Trump loses. Then you can go back to your pet projects.
wow. the article makes a lot of important points and I agree .. so do alot of the comments here, also agree. But allow me to state that what underlies all of this, what has pushed these people into faoming-at-the-mouth ignorance, and what has pressured the MSM to embrace "False Equivelancy", and what is at the very root of this entire movement is fox news and the right wing misinformation juggernaught. Since its inception, Fox News has sought to undermine democracy and to delegitimize the "other party" (democrats). Think about that; DELEGITIMIZE the other side.
What these people (the maga's) believe is because it's pounded into their heads 23 1/2 hours every day, for thirty years now. They hear it from their friends, family, church, community and school. Every military base or office and every state office, and every bar and restaurant they frequent plays Fox News ALL THE TIME. "Democrats want open borders!". "Democrats want to take away your hamburgers, your trucks, your guns, your way of life." "Democrats kill babies and molest children. Democrats want to turn you gay, indoctrinate your children and replace you with brown people. Democrats are not legitimate Americans, not legitimate voters and only win because they cheat." This is what they hear hour after hour, every day because this is the mission of Fox. These beliefs have become their culture and their identities. "It's us against them, and America needs a 'red'ceaser' ; a strongman to extinguish the illegitimates and "take back" our country". (as in: it's ours not theirs). Until we can hold political advertisements and media that calls itself "news" to a standard of verifiable truth, nothing will change.
MAGA is the end result of millions of people having been fed pure propaganda, falsely presented as news (a la Fox News) for decades. Most Trump supporters probably don't get their information from any sources outside the right-wing media nubble.
But I don't think it's simply a matter of "changing" MAGA voters. I think we need to try to understand what motivates them so that we can DEAL with them effectively. If you don't understand the process you can't control the product. If we can try to understand why they think the way they do, there is some chance at overcoming them. I think this is the real issue cuz you are correct, there is probably little chance of changing many of their minds - not in this lifetime, anyway...
I don't think JS was too dark. I think he was entirely realistic. I fully expect Biden to win, but also that there will be another insurrection...or worse...before he is sworn in. The other guy tells us everyt day that that is what will happen. So does whatserface from Upstate New York. Stefanik. Ugh.
I love that you have the optimism to expect Biden to win. I'm personally very afraid that we are going for a coin toss and I don't like those odds one bit.
Jonathan, did you see Jennifer Rubin’s post in her subscriber letter? She said similar things about the authoritarian cult following Trump, and she actually said much of the media coverage was nonsense. Here’s the link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/01/12/media-trump-cult/
JVL is exactly right. Trump isn't the main problem--his voters are. They have shown us time and time again that they refuse to hear facts that don't align with their preferred narrative, they have no respect for the law or law enforcement unless it is beating or hurting people they don't like, they embrace white supremacy and are giddy about it, they love authoritarianism. It is time we start telling the truth about how deranged and dangerous they are instead of trying to "both sides" this election as if it is something normal.
They are deranged, dangerous, and delusional. God help us all.
MAGA is the perfect example of a cult. It is centered around a charismatic leader (Trump has a sort of dark charisma) and its members uncritically believe everything he says and will do anything he asks them to. If Trump asked these people to sacrifice their first born or drink Kool Aid laced with cyanide many of them would literally do so. And, most importantly, they send him money, which he really needs.
Trump also gives them permission to be their worst selves, telling them that they don't have to learn anything new or make any effort to better themselves. By telling the MAGA hats that any area of their lives they find wanting is due to someone taking something from them (immigrants, liberal elites, woke academics, trans people) Trump gives them affirmation and validation for their beliefs and choices. These idiots believe that Trump truly cares about them, which he absolutely doesn't. To Trump his followers are primarily a cash cow and stage props at his rallies, and of course they're expected to turn out to vote for him, even if they would risk freezing to death in the frigid Iowa winter.
Trump's voters are absolutely the problem. It's not as though Trump rose out of a swamp one day and walked into the White House. No, tens of millions of people voted for him because they believe his nonsense and hate speech appeals to them because they are profoundly ignorant or just bad people (or both). I could care less if some rubes cash in their disability checks to fund Trump's lavish lifestyle and his legal defenses. The really infuriating thing is that the MAGA cultists' toxic belief system has profound effects on the rest of us.
It has been hard for me to accept so many Americans (including family and friends) actually want a dictator to force their dominance and world view on me and others. They are historically illiterate , not realizing the boot will eventual be put on their necks too. We have to resist this fascist movement .
This is a very defensive piece. A better approach is taken by Edward Luce in the Financial Times:
It is easy to dismiss the 45 per cent or more of America that would vote for Donald Trump as mad or bad. There are plenty of both, but Democrats are delusional if they think that saying so again and again is the way to get Joe Biden re-elected. I have written about the liberal world’s intellectual shortsightedness on this question on many occasions, most recently here. Any attempt to do so gets instantly discounted as special pleading or, worse — giving comfort and succour to the enemy. That is how a hermetically-sealed universe helps to perpetuate some of the resentments that fuel Trump. You cannot keep telling people that they are idiots or racists and expect that they will see the light and change their vote. Is the American left in the business of defeating Trump, or merely of feeling unsullied when he wins? I sometimes wonder.
In the 1980s, people who study cults say there were about 3,000 cults of one kind or another in the U.S., with a total membership of up to 1 million. These included cults such as the "Moonies," and the Jonestown congregation (and we know how that ended).
Now, we are faced with a staggering 70 million deranged cult members who vote and sacrifice themselves, even go to their deaths or to jail, for the maniacal street preacher Trump. These people have yet to be systematically studied, and at this point there is no time to study them.
There is only time to mobilize better than them, and deprive their psychopathic - I mean this quite literally, he meets all the needed DSMN-5 criteria - immoral and lawless 'leader.'
We can, and I think we should study these cultists as best we can later - even though they are usually paranoid, averse to science and reasoning, and so may balk at being part of a study.
For now, we have to focus on beating them at the ballot box, because we can't count on judges like Eileen Cannon, or business world schmucks like Jamie Diamond who would sell his democracy down the river for a better tax rate - to do what needs to be done.
Trump is a monster, and he surrounds himself with monsters, and he brings the worst out in them, and he will f&*$%#k our country up for a generation if not forever, unless we can keep his greedy, incompetent, malicious bum out of the White House for good.
Ah. The Catch-22:
"2. Guardrails" for democracy - ONLY work on law-abiding people who want democracy - NOT MAGAts, or tfg.
And This is one strong reason 14-3 does not call for a vote!
(Good people need to be thinking of contingencies; but also need to listen well to others with different view (including R's!) and make strategic alliances to win the future, not just today's battles. Anyone who is unwilling to listen carefully and compromise strategically with others' 'less good' (but survivable) views, in the name of larger coalition building, is not helping preserve the Republic. )
I'm a few days late but wanted to express a few thoughts. One thing that I've seen others mention is that media like the NY Times have been hammered for years for having a liberal bias. So, as those critics intended, the natural reaction is to bend over backward to be "fair" to the other side, which in this case are the right-wing MAGA types. Is that a good thing? Well no, not in this case, but I think it is understandable.
Second, on the topic of Trump supporters just liking authoritarianism: It occurs to me that this is another pernicious impact of the "big lie". Something like 70% of Republican voters and 40% of ALL voters think the election was "stolen" in some fashion. Well, if you truly believe the election was stolen, then you already think you live in a quasi-authoritarian state. Right? What Trump tried to do - overthrow a free and fair election - MAGAs think Biden already did. So they think democracy has already ended and just want their guy in control of things rather than the evil liberal. Yet another reason why McConnell (and other GOP senators) needed to step up. But as we know, they chickened out, with a few exceptions.
The one part that has always bothered me and I don't understand is how MAGA voters can think Democrats are able to just steal elections, but also think that their vote matters and that they can elect Donald Trump in 2024.
It is very reasonable to the guardrails did not hold, or they held just barely - like, they kept the car of democracy from tumbling all the way down a sheer rock-strewn cliff into the sea, but that car is still hanging at the top, has not been properly rescued and refurbished, and we don’t yet know if that car will be back on the road in ‘24.
Trump was only 1 Mike Pence away from throwing the transition of power into chaos, and exploiting that chaos by running teams of fake electors into DC to further sow confusion. Or, he was only 1 flunky Attorney General way from an ‘official’ pronouncement that the ‘20 election had been ‘rigged’ against him, with even more white nationalist Brownshirts in the streets.
And the guardrails did not at all hold Trump in check, because the seditious swine is just weeks away from clinching the Republican nomination for President, based on his boneheaded voters, the Republican leaders who are terrified by the voters, and based on Trump’s tireless appetite for both lying and threatening.
JVL delivers truth once again, fantastic writing and once again on point.
I just cancelled my NY Times subscription. The cooking app still rocks though :)
Reading this way late, JVL, but just need to say I have been a Times subscriber for over 40 years and their treatment of Trump is appalling. I have just started to skip over every Trump article and it is so true about the nauseating portrayal of Trump voters and the lack of inclusion of anything about Biden voters. I doubt the New York Times is getting clicks from people in Iowa or Texas or anywhere that has the people who show up in full Trump regalia to cheer every nonsensical word that comes out of his mouth. Why are they doing this? I wish someone had the answer. Thank you for everything you write. And thank God for The Bulwark. As a Democrat who initially just wanted to hear the other side, I have moved closer and closer to the centrist beliefs that I find here.
I can’t believe I turn to The Bulwark for political commentary. As a progressive it’s shocking to me that this is where I hear the most reasoned discourse about the world we’re now living in.
Well said. Thanks!
Much of the issue with the both siderist Trump and MAGA coverage coming from the New York Times and other major media outlets like CNN comes from the way that journalists are trained. Journalists are supposed to be objective and observant and their job is to report on important events and trends without editorializing. Opinions are only supposed to be expressed by columnists and letters to the editor. They also need stuff to write about or broadcast and the easiest way to generate content is to repeat and recycle the same themes over and over again. I also think that there is a lot of sensitivity within the mainstream media to being accused of having a liberal bias. It seems that the New York Times is going out of its way to prove that they're 'objective' and not 'biased' by normalizing Trump and his supporters.
I have read the entire thing. However, you are not only reading the law; you are reading into the law, between the lines as it were, (not the plain text) and then creating hypotheticals that smuggle in unsupported premises. It is silly to call citing an introductory paragraph that states the purpose of the law "cherry picking". I have never been a Democrat or a Republican. I do not care about Democrats winning elections. I care about the best candidate winning elections. However, it is hard to believe that anyone who is or was a Democrat would give credence to anything from right-wing propaganda. Best practice is to avoid all propaganda whether from the left or the right..
At this juncture the most important thing is to help make sure Trump loses. Then you can go back to your pet projects.
wow. the article makes a lot of important points and I agree .. so do alot of the comments here, also agree. But allow me to state that what underlies all of this, what has pushed these people into faoming-at-the-mouth ignorance, and what has pressured the MSM to embrace "False Equivelancy", and what is at the very root of this entire movement is fox news and the right wing misinformation juggernaught. Since its inception, Fox News has sought to undermine democracy and to delegitimize the "other party" (democrats). Think about that; DELEGITIMIZE the other side.
What these people (the maga's) believe is because it's pounded into their heads 23 1/2 hours every day, for thirty years now. They hear it from their friends, family, church, community and school. Every military base or office and every state office, and every bar and restaurant they frequent plays Fox News ALL THE TIME. "Democrats want open borders!". "Democrats want to take away your hamburgers, your trucks, your guns, your way of life." "Democrats kill babies and molest children. Democrats want to turn you gay, indoctrinate your children and replace you with brown people. Democrats are not legitimate Americans, not legitimate voters and only win because they cheat." This is what they hear hour after hour, every day because this is the mission of Fox. These beliefs have become their culture and their identities. "It's us against them, and America needs a 'red'ceaser' ; a strongman to extinguish the illegitimates and "take back" our country". (as in: it's ours not theirs). Until we can hold political advertisements and media that calls itself "news" to a standard of verifiable truth, nothing will change.
MAGA is the end result of millions of people having been fed pure propaganda, falsely presented as news (a la Fox News) for decades. Most Trump supporters probably don't get their information from any sources outside the right-wing media nubble.
But I don't think it's simply a matter of "changing" MAGA voters. I think we need to try to understand what motivates them so that we can DEAL with them effectively. If you don't understand the process you can't control the product. If we can try to understand why they think the way they do, there is some chance at overcoming them. I think this is the real issue cuz you are correct, there is probably little chance of changing many of their minds - not in this lifetime, anyway...
I don't think JS was too dark. I think he was entirely realistic. I fully expect Biden to win, but also that there will be another insurrection...or worse...before he is sworn in. The other guy tells us everyt day that that is what will happen. So does whatserface from Upstate New York. Stefanik. Ugh.
I love that you have the optimism to expect Biden to win. I'm personally very afraid that we are going for a coin toss and I don't like those odds one bit.
Jonathan, did you see Jennifer Rubin’s post in her subscriber letter? She said similar things about the authoritarian cult following Trump, and she actually said much of the media coverage was nonsense. Here’s the link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/01/12/media-trump-cult/
@JVL: Snopes has a fact check on the 4 years and beyond - apparently it's taken out of context. Want to do a correction?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-four-years-beyond/
JVL is exactly right. Trump isn't the main problem--his voters are. They have shown us time and time again that they refuse to hear facts that don't align with their preferred narrative, they have no respect for the law or law enforcement unless it is beating or hurting people they don't like, they embrace white supremacy and are giddy about it, they love authoritarianism. It is time we start telling the truth about how deranged and dangerous they are instead of trying to "both sides" this election as if it is something normal.
They are deranged, dangerous, and delusional. God help us all.
MAGA is the perfect example of a cult. It is centered around a charismatic leader (Trump has a sort of dark charisma) and its members uncritically believe everything he says and will do anything he asks them to. If Trump asked these people to sacrifice their first born or drink Kool Aid laced with cyanide many of them would literally do so. And, most importantly, they send him money, which he really needs.
Trump also gives them permission to be their worst selves, telling them that they don't have to learn anything new or make any effort to better themselves. By telling the MAGA hats that any area of their lives they find wanting is due to someone taking something from them (immigrants, liberal elites, woke academics, trans people) Trump gives them affirmation and validation for their beliefs and choices. These idiots believe that Trump truly cares about them, which he absolutely doesn't. To Trump his followers are primarily a cash cow and stage props at his rallies, and of course they're expected to turn out to vote for him, even if they would risk freezing to death in the frigid Iowa winter.
Trump's voters are absolutely the problem. It's not as though Trump rose out of a swamp one day and walked into the White House. No, tens of millions of people voted for him because they believe his nonsense and hate speech appeals to them because they are profoundly ignorant or just bad people (or both). I could care less if some rubes cash in their disability checks to fund Trump's lavish lifestyle and his legal defenses. The really infuriating thing is that the MAGA cultists' toxic belief system has profound effects on the rest of us.