I don't think Biden should pardon anyone else. Yes, it will be a slap in the face that he abused his powers to save his family and not the country. But two wrongs do not make a right.
Biden's ego (helped) put us in this position. He shouldn't have the luxury of further breaking rules and norms, leaving further consequences for the rest of us down the road, to make up for his mistakes.
By consequences, I do *not* mean that Trump's abuses will be Biden's fault, nor that there is a moral equivalence between Biden and Trump and their abuses of power. Not at all. But once norms are broken they are bloody difficult to restore, and we continue the death spiral.
Re: voters who chose to ignore any contradictory info about Trump - There’s a difference between voting for the leopards without knowing they like to eat faces, and watching a leopard tear your neighbor’s face off and saying “no I refuse to believe reality I just like their spots”
When they have regrets I’ll be here to remind them that autocrats don’t give up power easily.
Also so many morons who think presidents magically improve economies. Tom Nichols is right. We are desperately bored and yearning for conflict and destruction :/
I just read Kim Wehle's excellent article on Hunter's pardon which ameliorates some of my fury at Bulwarks take on the issue. By the way Kim's article is kind of buried at this point. Comer and his henchmen had more than enough time to nail Hunter. Joe went out of his way to let MAGA Weiss do his dirtiest for 5 whole years. And this is what they come up with, gun form and late payment of taxes with interest and penalties. Then Trump's promise to give Hunter Biden the death penalty. Oh, he was just joking? Trump is about to take office as the President of the United States, I don't think "just kidding" is a good enough excuse.
Sorry Andrew but there can't be any hypocrisy when the rule of law doesn't apply to the rich and powerful. We live in an oligarchy whether any of us like it or not. Put your heads down, use a VPN and take care of your family. There's nothing else to do anymore.
To begin with, before you accuse Biden of hypocrisy, please give us the facts. How many American citizens are subject to a special prosecutor? How many people who have paid their late taxes and interest and penalties in full are still subject to prosecution and imprisonment? How many people who have lied on a gun application in which there is no injury are subject to prosecution and imprisonment? Before pundits write their nonsense, provide us with facts; otherwise one has as much credibility as the drunk guy in the bar sitting next to you.
Re: Biden’s pardon of his son Hunter. This is not that complicated, and all of the people who are shocked, shocked! that Biden would do such a thing only need ask themselves: if it were your son, what would you do? Hunter Biden would have faced years of litigation, likely bankrupting him. MAGA would destroy him and his family. Honestly, I hope that Biden pardons every person that the MAGA ghouls have named as targets. This is not about “principles” but about shielding as many as possible from authoritarians that have no principles.
I can't listen to Sonny go on about dispensing with ethics as soon as they become inconvenient, and I can't believe multiple people are quoting him. He's not wrong, but this is the guy who said he DGAF about the BONKERS Thomas/Alito corruption. He just...meh, idc, just couldn't get upset about it, who cares? That guy has no credibility with me. Sorry, Andrew.
Regarding Biden and pardons: I appreciate that there are powerful arguments on either side but, given Trump's intentions to seek retribution I'm leaning strongly in favor of Biden extending pardons to those that have been singled out by Trump. Another thought: maybe Biden ought to pardon Trump as well. As abhorrent as the idea of Trump getting away with his crimes might be, the Federal cases against him are likely dead and extending a pardon to him could make mute the inevitable Republican howls regrading the other pardons.
Trump is a sadist and a torturer. His picks will be the same. Trump was looking forward to putting Hunter on a cross behind prison walls and telling JBiden:
"See you can't do a thing about it," a mini version of Otto Warmbier
The Federal Bureau of Prisons has already shown how it will behave. Don't forget how Barr and Trump treated Cohen. Mssrs. Bulwark, Miller, Egger, et.al. Forget the screeds about hypocrisy. Write something productive.
I personally don't know any Dems who think Biden was wrong to pardon Hunter. It's mostly a media "both sides" fabrication. Hunter is a huge screw-up but his persecution is simply MAGA trying to punish Joe for winning in 2020.
Just wait until these rubes find out that Trump cares not a wit about their economic distress and is solely interested in enacting revenge at anyone who had the temerity to criticize him.
"But the pardon also betrays a deep worry that Republicans wouldn’t stop coming after Biden’s family until they had extracted their pound of flesh—that we are past the point of saving the institutional legitimacy of our system of justice."
How about Trump issuing an executive order vacating all pardons granted during the previous administration? Sound ridiculous and impossible? By the time it gets litigated out and the Supreme Court probably has rationalized why that is a legitimate reading of the Constitution Trump can have wreaked havoc over the lives of many of his enemies.
There is no coming back from this so Biden is acting rationally in issuing his pardon of Hunter he KNOWS what will be coming.
That is also why he must pardon Trump, his coconspirators and the January 6 insurrectionists. Follow Lincoln's path of Amnesty and Reconstruction. At least it will disarm Trump's use of the pardon as a tool of propaganda for the short term. Also Jack Smith's reports need to published BEFORE Trump takes office.
Pardon him, for what purpose? So Trump can say, “Look, everyone! Biden pardoned me, so clearly I did nothing wrong! Time to do it all again, and then some!”???
A pardon is not an exoneration. If anything it says in spite of this pardon the pardoned person was a criminal. Especially if/when Jack Smith releases his damning report on Trump's crimes.
Do you seriously think MAGA is going to make that distinction? No matter how many times we explain things to them, they take Trump at his word. If he gets pardoned, he is going to shout from the rooftops that he never did anything wrong to begin with, it was all a political hit job, and he got pardoned because he’s innocent. And MAGA is going to lap it up. Pardoning him gets us nothing.
He will do that anyway. What MAGA thinks doesn’t matter… it is what the rest of the world sees. And not pardoning gets us nothing except to allow Trump to claim he has vindicated himself and the unjustly convicted patriots.
He himself will never need a pardon (not even a self-pardon) because the Federal Courts have never convicted him and will never convict him. So Biden giving him a pardon (along with the release of Jack Smith’s damning reports) makes it clear Trump was guilty and needed to be pardoned
There is a HUGE difference between pardoning Hunter and pardoning others on Trump's enemies list. Hunter has been convicted and investigated to death already. Comer came up with nothing. Weiss has been investigating and prosecuting Hunter Biden since 2018 and all serious analysis of the prosecutions conclude that Hunter was treated as much or more aggressively and unfairly as anyone else who committed the crimes he did. More importantly, after all the investigation, no viable charges have surfaced let alone been brought.
This must be contrasted with others on Trump's enemies list. They have not been accused of any crime or even criminally investigated that we know of. Andrew is right that they should not be subjected to abuse by the justice system. However, they won't be convicted unless they actually are guilty of something because there are still enough checks in the system. But President Biden preemptively pardoning them not only deprives these good people the opportunity of being able to clear their names by dismissal or acquittal of bogus charges, it allows Trump and MAGA world to scream "SEE THEY WERE GUILTY" forever. Trump gets his vengeance without even firing a bogus shot.
Everyone knows from what Hunter is being pardoned. Pardoning others on the enemies list would allow Trump and his cronies falsely to define them as criminals. This is wrong.
Disagree. MAGA will define Cheney and Milley and Hutchinson and McCabe and Harris as criminals with or without pardons. WITH, they have some protection. Nothing is stopping Biden from making a very candid statement about WHY he is issuing the pardons. (He owes us that candor, after omitting it from his statement re: Hunter's pardon.)
In a normal world sure, but subjecting these people to prosecution and investigation is the punishment, years of their lives, their money, professional lives, all damaged.
Yes of course it's MAGA's point. But they already have suffered death threats and other upheaval and costs. And it will continue whether pardoned or not, and pardoning might even make it worse. Just an educated guess, but if these honorable people were asked, they very well would refuse a get out of jail free card and stand on their record and character. I know that I would want that to be my legacy whatever the costs rather than being unfairly smeared for eternity.
Huey Long was good, tho
I don't think Biden should pardon anyone else. Yes, it will be a slap in the face that he abused his powers to save his family and not the country. But two wrongs do not make a right.
Biden's ego (helped) put us in this position. He shouldn't have the luxury of further breaking rules and norms, leaving further consequences for the rest of us down the road, to make up for his mistakes.
By consequences, I do *not* mean that Trump's abuses will be Biden's fault, nor that there is a moral equivalence between Biden and Trump and their abuses of power. Not at all. But once norms are broken they are bloody difficult to restore, and we continue the death spiral.
Re: voters who chose to ignore any contradictory info about Trump - There’s a difference between voting for the leopards without knowing they like to eat faces, and watching a leopard tear your neighbor’s face off and saying “no I refuse to believe reality I just like their spots”
When they have regrets I’ll be here to remind them that autocrats don’t give up power easily.
Also so many morons who think presidents magically improve economies. Tom Nichols is right. We are desperately bored and yearning for conflict and destruction :/
I just read Kim Wehle's excellent article on Hunter's pardon which ameliorates some of my fury at Bulwarks take on the issue. By the way Kim's article is kind of buried at this point. Comer and his henchmen had more than enough time to nail Hunter. Joe went out of his way to let MAGA Weiss do his dirtiest for 5 whole years. And this is what they come up with, gun form and late payment of taxes with interest and penalties. Then Trump's promise to give Hunter Biden the death penalty. Oh, he was just joking? Trump is about to take office as the President of the United States, I don't think "just kidding" is a good enough excuse.
Sorry Andrew but there can't be any hypocrisy when the rule of law doesn't apply to the rich and powerful. We live in an oligarchy whether any of us like it or not. Put your heads down, use a VPN and take care of your family. There's nothing else to do anymore.
I’ve talked to many people in my large circle and although anecdotal no one gives a F*** about the pardon. Please move on :)
To begin with, before you accuse Biden of hypocrisy, please give us the facts. How many American citizens are subject to a special prosecutor? How many people who have paid their late taxes and interest and penalties in full are still subject to prosecution and imprisonment? How many people who have lied on a gun application in which there is no injury are subject to prosecution and imprisonment? Before pundits write their nonsense, provide us with facts; otherwise one has as much credibility as the drunk guy in the bar sitting next to you.
Re: Biden’s pardon of his son Hunter. This is not that complicated, and all of the people who are shocked, shocked! that Biden would do such a thing only need ask themselves: if it were your son, what would you do? Hunter Biden would have faced years of litigation, likely bankrupting him. MAGA would destroy him and his family. Honestly, I hope that Biden pardons every person that the MAGA ghouls have named as targets. This is not about “principles” but about shielding as many as possible from authoritarians that have no principles.
I can't listen to Sonny go on about dispensing with ethics as soon as they become inconvenient, and I can't believe multiple people are quoting him. He's not wrong, but this is the guy who said he DGAF about the BONKERS Thomas/Alito corruption. He just...meh, idc, just couldn't get upset about it, who cares? That guy has no credibility with me. Sorry, Andrew.
Regarding Biden and pardons: I appreciate that there are powerful arguments on either side but, given Trump's intentions to seek retribution I'm leaning strongly in favor of Biden extending pardons to those that have been singled out by Trump. Another thought: maybe Biden ought to pardon Trump as well. As abhorrent as the idea of Trump getting away with his crimes might be, the Federal cases against him are likely dead and extending a pardon to him could make mute the inevitable Republican howls regrading the other pardons.
Trump is a sadist and a torturer. His picks will be the same. Trump was looking forward to putting Hunter on a cross behind prison walls and telling JBiden:
"See you can't do a thing about it," a mini version of Otto Warmbier
The Federal Bureau of Prisons has already shown how it will behave. Don't forget how Barr and Trump treated Cohen. Mssrs. Bulwark, Miller, Egger, et.al. Forget the screeds about hypocrisy. Write something productive.
I personally don't know any Dems who think Biden was wrong to pardon Hunter. It's mostly a media "both sides" fabrication. Hunter is a huge screw-up but his persecution is simply MAGA trying to punish Joe for winning in 2020.
Very true.
Just wait until these rubes find out that Trump cares not a wit about their economic distress and is solely interested in enacting revenge at anyone who had the temerity to criticize him.
"But the pardon also betrays a deep worry that Republicans wouldn’t stop coming after Biden’s family until they had extracted their pound of flesh—that we are past the point of saving the institutional legitimacy of our system of justice."
How about Trump issuing an executive order vacating all pardons granted during the previous administration? Sound ridiculous and impossible? By the time it gets litigated out and the Supreme Court probably has rationalized why that is a legitimate reading of the Constitution Trump can have wreaked havoc over the lives of many of his enemies.
There is no coming back from this so Biden is acting rationally in issuing his pardon of Hunter he KNOWS what will be coming.
That is also why he must pardon Trump, his coconspirators and the January 6 insurrectionists. Follow Lincoln's path of Amnesty and Reconstruction. At least it will disarm Trump's use of the pardon as a tool of propaganda for the short term. Also Jack Smith's reports need to published BEFORE Trump takes office.
Pardon him, for what purpose? So Trump can say, “Look, everyone! Biden pardoned me, so clearly I did nothing wrong! Time to do it all again, and then some!”???
A pardon is not an exoneration. If anything it says in spite of this pardon the pardoned person was a criminal. Especially if/when Jack Smith releases his damning report on Trump's crimes.
Do you seriously think MAGA is going to make that distinction? No matter how many times we explain things to them, they take Trump at his word. If he gets pardoned, he is going to shout from the rooftops that he never did anything wrong to begin with, it was all a political hit job, and he got pardoned because he’s innocent. And MAGA is going to lap it up. Pardoning him gets us nothing.
He will do that anyway. What MAGA thinks doesn’t matter… it is what the rest of the world sees. And not pardoning gets us nothing except to allow Trump to claim he has vindicated himself and the unjustly convicted patriots.
He himself will never need a pardon (not even a self-pardon) because the Federal Courts have never convicted him and will never convict him. So Biden giving him a pardon (along with the release of Jack Smith’s damning reports) makes it clear Trump was guilty and needed to be pardoned
Sorry, not buying that line of thinking.
https://open.substack.com/pub/meidastouch/p/the-big-reason-why-hunters-pardon?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1wbr1r
There is a HUGE difference between pardoning Hunter and pardoning others on Trump's enemies list. Hunter has been convicted and investigated to death already. Comer came up with nothing. Weiss has been investigating and prosecuting Hunter Biden since 2018 and all serious analysis of the prosecutions conclude that Hunter was treated as much or more aggressively and unfairly as anyone else who committed the crimes he did. More importantly, after all the investigation, no viable charges have surfaced let alone been brought.
This must be contrasted with others on Trump's enemies list. They have not been accused of any crime or even criminally investigated that we know of. Andrew is right that they should not be subjected to abuse by the justice system. However, they won't be convicted unless they actually are guilty of something because there are still enough checks in the system. But President Biden preemptively pardoning them not only deprives these good people the opportunity of being able to clear their names by dismissal or acquittal of bogus charges, it allows Trump and MAGA world to scream "SEE THEY WERE GUILTY" forever. Trump gets his vengeance without even firing a bogus shot.
Everyone knows from what Hunter is being pardoned. Pardoning others on the enemies list would allow Trump and his cronies falsely to define them as criminals. This is wrong.
Disagree. MAGA will define Cheney and Milley and Hutchinson and McCabe and Harris as criminals with or without pardons. WITH, they have some protection. Nothing is stopping Biden from making a very candid statement about WHY he is issuing the pardons. (He owes us that candor, after omitting it from his statement re: Hunter's pardon.)
In a normal world sure, but subjecting these people to prosecution and investigation is the punishment, years of their lives, their money, professional lives, all damaged.
True. MAGA knows they're not guilty of anything, the upheaval and cost to them is the point.
Yes of course it's MAGA's point. But they already have suffered death threats and other upheaval and costs. And it will continue whether pardoned or not, and pardoning might even make it worse. Just an educated guess, but if these honorable people were asked, they very well would refuse a get out of jail free card and stand on their record and character. I know that I would want that to be my legacy whatever the costs rather than being unfairly smeared for eternity.
Navalny stuck to his guns and Trump's daddy had him executed. Let's protect the good people physically, then worry about legacy.