R Mercer - you’ve said a lot I agree with. But one group of MAGA guys is the frat boy/Barstool sports set. They aren’t really social conservatives in that alcohol, drugs, porn, and sexual adventuring are celebrated and key to the culture. In a variety of way not conservative at all - risk takers, profligate spenders and ostentatious if they have the wherewithal
R Mercer - you’ve said a lot I agree with. But one group of MAGA guys is the frat boy/Barstool sports set. They aren’t really social conservatives in that alcohol, drugs, porn, and sexual adventuring are celebrated and key to the culture. In a variety of way not conservative at all - risk takers, profligate spenders and ostentatious if they have the wherewithal
The social conservatism is in the treatment of women and those Other People.
Don't confuse adherence to Xtian sexual and social mores (which a lot of people historically paid lip service to and actually ignored, unless applying it to others) to the core of conservatism (how women are treated and who the Other is and how they are treated).
Christianity got turned into a justification for enslaving blacks, after all.
I think for some today that Christian is a label (as is conservative) largely stripped of its original meaning. Just as conservative doesn't define an agreed-upon set of principles anymore, Christian has little clear to denote. Somewhere in there, there's this guy from 2000 years ago but even who he was is up for grabs.
I generally don't yak about it but since we're discussing, I say I follow Jesus cuz I don't like the image most people lay on me if I say I'm a Christian. There are so many kinds of Christians but a very specific kind have kinda stolen the descriptor for themselves rather than using the lessons passed on from Jesus... who never enslaved anybody, but did mention loving your neighbor
Conservative does define an agreed upon set of principles, within the context of the society culture that is in play.
IOW, American conservatism has core principles. British conservatism has core principles, same with French... or Chinese, or Islamic.
These core principles aren't usually about economics or the specifics of government policy. Though economics comes into play.
American Establishment Conservatism (which ran from the 60s until Reagan) was supposedly about things like small government, low taxes, free markets.... but that was a facade put on traditional American conservatism--which was about nativism, racism, and male superiority. WF Buckley and a few others worked hard to shed that image--but that only lasted until the 90s.
The key to understanding conservatism and its principles/values is that it is primarily about maintaining privilege and the status quo, the existing power and economic structures.
R Mercer - you’ve said a lot I agree with. But one group of MAGA guys is the frat boy/Barstool sports set. They aren’t really social conservatives in that alcohol, drugs, porn, and sexual adventuring are celebrated and key to the culture. In a variety of way not conservative at all - risk takers, profligate spenders and ostentatious if they have the wherewithal
The social conservatism is in the treatment of women and those Other People.
Don't confuse adherence to Xtian sexual and social mores (which a lot of people historically paid lip service to and actually ignored, unless applying it to others) to the core of conservatism (how women are treated and who the Other is and how they are treated).
Christianity got turned into a justification for enslaving blacks, after all.
I think for some today that Christian is a label (as is conservative) largely stripped of its original meaning. Just as conservative doesn't define an agreed-upon set of principles anymore, Christian has little clear to denote. Somewhere in there, there's this guy from 2000 years ago but even who he was is up for grabs.
I generally don't yak about it but since we're discussing, I say I follow Jesus cuz I don't like the image most people lay on me if I say I'm a Christian. There are so many kinds of Christians but a very specific kind have kinda stolen the descriptor for themselves rather than using the lessons passed on from Jesus... who never enslaved anybody, but did mention loving your neighbor
Conservative does define an agreed upon set of principles, within the context of the society culture that is in play.
IOW, American conservatism has core principles. British conservatism has core principles, same with French... or Chinese, or Islamic.
These core principles aren't usually about economics or the specifics of government policy. Though economics comes into play.
American Establishment Conservatism (which ran from the 60s until Reagan) was supposedly about things like small government, low taxes, free markets.... but that was a facade put on traditional American conservatism--which was about nativism, racism, and male superiority. WF Buckley and a few others worked hard to shed that image--but that only lasted until the 90s.
The key to understanding conservatism and its principles/values is that it is primarily about maintaining privilege and the status quo, the existing power and economic structures.