Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
THAT is what socialism is.
State funded post secondary education is NOT that. Neither is universal health care, or social security.
One of the things that REALLY pisses me off is how the GoP has managed to shift the definition of socialism over the years and how many people unthinkingly buy into that shift to a greater or lesser degree.
You are so right. The people who run for office should be forced to pass a test in civics and political social theory, because if they believe the nonsense they are spouting they are clueless.
I get your point, but the highest paid state employee in my state works for a university. I fully grant that state schools aren't socialism under the current system, but if the education was provided for a state set price, how do we define a state run institution that is producing and distributing that education? How do we define current public schools for K-12 in this country?
I am willing to bet that that highest paid employee is a football coach. Which says something about our value systems. I could be wrong, but from I have seen the odds are in my favor.
Education is a public good. It is in the interest of the state to provide public goods at reasonable cost (including taxation as part of that reasonable cost). It is about as pragmatic as you get.
This is an expansive view of what governments should do, but it is based on what were once the values of the Whig (and then Republican) government.
There are a number of things that are public goods that the government provides--a court system, law enforcement, a military, interstate highways, dams, bridges, water/flood control.. and so on. This is (these days, it was not always so) seen as both right and proper.
Public schools are a public good... because it is cheaper on a per capita basis to provide it through taxation than for individual families to pay for it... and the benefits resound through the nation and national economy.
Public schools are not the only schools.
State universities are not the only universities.
If you REALLY want to get down to brass tacks, then EVERY state is a socialist state as all states (even pre-state societies) regulate. Although, to be SUPER precise, only democratic states (paying attention to the word community) qualify.
People tend to ignore that part as regulation is ubiquitous--and thus the definition collapses most cogently into the ownership of the means of production and distribution. Which we are, in most cases VERY far from.
Oh, I know it is a football coach. It's that way in almost all of the states with even remotely serious college football.
And yeah, it speaks very poorly to our value system. Hell, the fact that we've let athletics and education continue so entwined in this country is a problem in my book. One we have about zero chance of solving, but a problem nonetheless. And I say that as someone who devotes all of his fall Saturdays to college football (well, now that the kids don't have their own sports on Saturdays much).
I really doubt that the farmers in North Dakota, etc., who had free state schools cared that some 21st century pol would call free college socialism. They saw it as an investment in the future of their children and their state - something most current Rs are against.
Well, it is socialistic. Thing is, that isn't some absolute evil. There are things in our society that hyper capitalism isn't the best solution for.
Well, actually, it isn't socialistic.
Socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
THAT is what socialism is.
State funded post secondary education is NOT that. Neither is universal health care, or social security.
One of the things that REALLY pisses me off is how the GoP has managed to shift the definition of socialism over the years and how many people unthinkingly buy into that shift to a greater or lesser degree.
You are so right. The people who run for office should be forced to pass a test in civics and political social theory, because if they believe the nonsense they are spouting they are clueless.
I get your point, but the highest paid state employee in my state works for a university. I fully grant that state schools aren't socialism under the current system, but if the education was provided for a state set price, how do we define a state run institution that is producing and distributing that education? How do we define current public schools for K-12 in this country?
I am willing to bet that that highest paid employee is a football coach. Which says something about our value systems. I could be wrong, but from I have seen the odds are in my favor.
Education is a public good. It is in the interest of the state to provide public goods at reasonable cost (including taxation as part of that reasonable cost). It is about as pragmatic as you get.
This is an expansive view of what governments should do, but it is based on what were once the values of the Whig (and then Republican) government.
There are a number of things that are public goods that the government provides--a court system, law enforcement, a military, interstate highways, dams, bridges, water/flood control.. and so on. This is (these days, it was not always so) seen as both right and proper.
Public schools are a public good... because it is cheaper on a per capita basis to provide it through taxation than for individual families to pay for it... and the benefits resound through the nation and national economy.
Public schools are not the only schools.
State universities are not the only universities.
If you REALLY want to get down to brass tacks, then EVERY state is a socialist state as all states (even pre-state societies) regulate. Although, to be SUPER precise, only democratic states (paying attention to the word community) qualify.
People tend to ignore that part as regulation is ubiquitous--and thus the definition collapses most cogently into the ownership of the means of production and distribution. Which we are, in most cases VERY far from.
Oh, I know it is a football coach. It's that way in almost all of the states with even remotely serious college football.
And yeah, it speaks very poorly to our value system. Hell, the fact that we've let athletics and education continue so entwined in this country is a problem in my book. One we have about zero chance of solving, but a problem nonetheless. And I say that as someone who devotes all of his fall Saturdays to college football (well, now that the kids don't have their own sports on Saturdays much).
I mean, itтАЩs not even тАЬsocialisticтАЭ really unless the federal government is buying schools. ItтАЩs тАЬwelfare state-istic.тАЭ
I really doubt that the farmers in North Dakota, etc., who had free state schools cared that some 21st century pol would call free college socialism. They saw it as an investment in the future of their children and their state - something most current Rs are against.
Well comrade, you can see it in this very thread with that troll who just views college as a way of producing communists. ;)