Here's a legit question I have to ask myself nowadays:
If I am in my local neighborhood (Aurora, CO) with my Venezuelan wife who has legal permanent residency, and I'm legally concealed carrying a pistol (which I do), and a group of six men in masks approach us and put my wife in cuffs and start taking her to a van while saying they're po…
Here's a legit question I have to ask myself nowadays:
If I am in my local neighborhood (Aurora, CO) with my Venezuelan wife who has legal permanent residency, and I'm legally concealed carrying a pistol (which I do), and a group of six men in masks approach us and put my wife in cuffs and start taking her to a van while saying they're police but refusing to show badges or give names, should I be drawing down on this group as they physically abduct my wife like they're one of the gangs from a "Taken" movie?
From a purely legal standpoint, you’re entitled to use reasonable force in the defense of others but that line is very precarious indeed and depends entirely on the good faith and reasonableness of all parties involved. That’s the hypothetical situation in a hypothetically democratic system. As JVL noted, we don’t live there anymore. If you want to stay alive, don’t brandish your weapon unless it’s a matter of life or death. If you intervene verbally and you’re handled by the goons, make sure you inform them you are armed and comply with all commands. You might survive the encounter or you might not. It’s a coin flip. Otherwise, prepare to be a martyr.
How long until Bad Actors copycat these techniques and start abducting people and selling them into slavery or worse? Why didn't you fight back? Gee, I dunno, they said they were ICE, and we thought we could work it through the legal system?
You get idiots from MAGA claiming the Bill of Rights only applies to US citizens. How do we know the people being deported aren't US citizens? Prove it in a court of law, or it's just a suspicion. That's not an activist judge telling you to pause. That's a judge asking you to follow core tenets of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.
"How long until Bad Actors copycat these techniques and start abducting people and selling them into slavery or worse?"
I am white and my half sister is half white half Mexican, and she looks Mexican. We were both born here. This is keeping me up at night, as well as the probable escalations we'll see soon. "Luckily" she doesn't have a Spanish last name. I have asked her to start carrying a copy of her birth certificate in her purse and to get me a copy to carry as well. I'm trying to not be paranoid too early but I am so afraid for her. It is only a matter of time until they drop the immigration pretext and just start grabbing citizens too.
Variation on this: my husband is a GC holder. We now have a lawyer in our phone for when he travels and I (also a lawyer) am staying up to speed on ways to not simply know what to say, but how to make sure if he is taken, we can *track and find him.* Too many of these stories have this line in them: their lawyer doesn’t know where they are.
This is absolutely a legitimate question. Laws differ on how LEOs have to identify themselves, but of course, the laws rarely apply in these situations.
Best bet is probably to coordinate with lawyers beforehand and have your response ready so that if she's abducted you have a pre-existing legal plan that can be deployed.
This conversation just broke me. It's all been looking really bad and managing it all is tough, but I usually maintain composure. But there's something about you two, here in the comments like always, discussing something so horrific. It's so normal and familiar, almost comforting, except in this one grotesque way. Having to game out the various permutations of the abduction and defense of your wife... This shouldn't be real.
I am a lawyer, in Michigan, and my best legal/practical/personal safety advice is to conceal-carry your cellphone, fully charged, and be trained on how to quickly take video.
Seriously; just think of the number of cases of recent ICE abuse that we AREN'T talking about, because there was (a) no on-scene video and (b) no lawyers at the ready to file for TRO's and habeas.
I am glad we are talking about this Tufts case, and I just want to pause the discussion to thank and praise everyone who, at perhaps some personal risk, made the effort to record the event and get the video into the hands of people to make it public.
This scary and disgusting situation couldn't get much worse, although the one way it might have been worse is if it had turned into a gunfight with a dead conceal-carry husband, and Fox News hosts screaming (illegitimately) about violence against CBP/ICE cops "while making a lawful arrest."
By the way; since I live near the U.S. - Canada border (much love to my wonderful Canadian neighbors), I obtained a "Passport card" when I last renewed my U.S. Passport. It looks like a driver's license, except it contains your passport info.
You need your real passport, if you are traveling abroad. But the card works if you are traversing the Ambassador Bridge to go get some new hockey gear or Indian food or Canadian beer in Windsor, Ontario.
I don't always carry my Passport card, but I very often do. More so lately. I am right now. I personally think it would be a chore and an annoyance to always carry my actual Passport, but I completely understand why some people would.
I'm not sure this solves the hypothetical problem of someone copycatting this approach and using it for "more criminal" means like human abduction. How do you tell legitimate LEOs from criminals?
You find out after the fact that they've been kidnapped by someone who isn't law enforcement? That's... not good.
I know this is the best choice, and it is the one I am pre-committing to (I have my immigration lawyer's number ready to go). The fucked up part for me is that I'm a combat veteran with C-PTSD and every ounce of my prefrontal cortex and right amygdala are going to be pushing me into "protect mode" if something like this were ever to occur. We all know what we'd like to do in theory when we're not in the heat of a moment with milliseconds to make a decision, but we don't ever know how we're actually going to react until we're in the moment itself. That's the kind of shit I worry about in my personal case.
I wonder about this from the perspective of the woman being kidnapped. Even the first person approaching me like that would put me on full alert. Then the second and third person surrounding me, wearing masks, I would be freaking the fuck out. I couldn’t stop myself from physically fighting (C-PTSD here as well). It would be an instant reaction. And screaming.
I am surprised by the calmness of the two detainees we’ve seen being arrested like this. These guys could’ve bought those badges on Amazon.
What do people think about fighting on purpose, if you’re the one being arrested when you’re alone?
Some time ago I read about a someone conducting a group discussion on personal safety where the participants were asked what they did routinely to protect themselves whenever they went out. The men all looked baffled and every woman there had at least two precautions.
I can't imagine how any woman being grabbed on the street by a strange man, let alone several strange men, wouldn't think she was at risk of being raped, but the shock of what is happening can have different effects. Some will probably freeze, especially now when it's early days yet and people think they still have legal recourse. Speaking as a rape victim (it was many years ago) I made a conscious decision at the time not to fight because I thought he would kill me if I resisted, but figured (correctly, as it turns out) that I could get away once it was over if I moved fast enough. I believe many more women than we like to imagine make such calculations but as a culture we prefer dead rape victms to live ones who are somehow complicit in the assaults if they don't end up on an autopsy table
All of which is to say that fighting for your life may well get you shot by one of these knuckleheads - I'm assuming they're armed - but on the other hand who knows where they're taking you? In any event it's something to think about ahead of time and mentally prepare for.
It's illegal to impersonate law enforcement/government officials/ICE agents/etc., yet men* get ahold of a janky badge, uniform, lights and pull women over all the time. I'll let y'all fill in the rest. I routinely drive 150 miles+ for a doc appointment or for work and this is why I conceal carry.
Travis, I'd do the following in this order: call the police, then my lawyer (or have lawyer call 911), set my phone to record,,demand identification (ask your lawyer for the legal cite re: LEO/ICE duty to ID), and depending on what they say, let them know you're armed (in TX we have to disclose that immediately). Now here's the really hard part, speak in a calm, non-threatening manner.
I have C-PTSD, too, for different reasons so I get how your brain is in go mode. All I can say is that it would be *really* hard for me not to use the Remington .22 that's on my person whenever I leave my house. **OTOH, I'm also a lawyer so I know that pulling a gun on ICE agents is asking to be violently arrested, at a minimum, up to a shootout.**
JVL, would y'all still have my back if I were arrested under these circumstances?
*I've *never* heard of a woman pulling this stunt in my 15 years of criminal defense practice.
The unfortunate reality is that you would likely be shot and probably killed in a fullisade of gunfire (multiple rounds from the agents present, plus the misses that are going off to who knows where), because (from what I have seen) LEO fire discipline sucks.
One of the reasons that I do not carry a gun is because of this. I do not live in a high threat area, so I am not really concerned with personal defense. I AM concerned about using a weapon and having to deal with the consequences, because I AM the type of person that if I have the weapon, its coming out in a case like this.
And I am a REALLY good shot, I practice. Probably more than most LEOs do.
“Pre-lawyering”. Yesterday I wrote that just thinking about DOGE sniffing the voter rolls made me feel “pre-violated”. I have run similar tapes in my mind as Travis describes. Maybe we all need to pre-install a red alert app on our phones and have a finger poised over the panic button on the screen whenever we go out; the app would be pre-loaded with our pre-lawyer.
That’s a version of what I’ve been doing daily with my daughter for years. Since I live alone, I text her every morning. If she doesn’t hear from me she checks in. We even share a safe word, for “help!”.
I remember after 9/11 there was a brief interest in human microchips as we use for pets, to enable identification of the deceased, and location of survivors. My mind is going there again. Ah, but that would just cause them to ‘wand’ us and start cutting. I hate having these thoughts!
Around 2003 I had a friend who self implanted a dog microchip in his hand and used it to wave in front of the lock on his front door to get in! He loved it
That’s hilarious! I remember a news story from probably 15 years ago of a tech freak who had a fairly large device installed in the back of his neck; it looked quite sore, and he abandoned his experiment fairly soon.
I would point out that there's a 50% chance you typed this comment on a device which allows the government to track you. Cell phone location data is used regularly to establish where a suspect was at a given time.
Good point. But when they grab people off the street, I’m guessing they confiscate their phones (location devices) so your loved ones have no information. In my fantasy, the hidden chip still works - but that assumes a battery and range, which probably isn’t feasible . . . for now. Which means microchips can’t really be functional trackers even for the government. Back when the anti-vaxers thought there was a microchip small enough to go through a small gauge needle and STILL have that level of capability, I thought “if only!” There really is no recourse for those being nabbed.
And that’s why the idea died. But the government can only track you that way if they know you have a chip. But like I wrote; wanding as they do to dogs. The idea needs a lot of work! I’m not even a sci-fi fan, so someone else needs to work on it.
"Best bet is probably to coordinate with lawyers beforehand and have your response ready so that if she's abducted you have a pre-existing legal plan that can be deployed."
Since you aren’t MAGA, but you are a cis white male (I’m assuming from your profile), it’s a tough call. If you draw in this hypothetical, you’re getting killed, and your wife is still getting detained, but I admire how you’re thinking ahead to the political fallout and how you can best be of service to the cause even after you’re gone.
Make sure you have lots of TV-ready imagery on public social media and friends who can speak on you and your wife’s behalf. If you ever voted for Trump, or were ever a die-hard Republican, make sure they know that and will mention it to reporters (but urge them not to characterize your Republicanism — and certainly not mention never-Trumpers or, say, The Bulwark).
If you have any former friends you’ve lost touch with (perhaps intentionally on your part) who are MAGA — and especially if they are or are close to any MAGA influencers or electeds at any level, touch base if you can in a way that won’t tip them off you’ve gone turncoat. Then maybe, just maybe, your case will be one that someone takes up as a “maybe this is going a *liiiitle* too far?” moment.
(Sorry for the gallows humor around something so serious, but you got me yesterday, turnabout is only fair. I mean, to be serious, this is why we don’t want immigration enforcement mixed with other law enforcement, and why increased plainclothes-takedown for nonviolent offenses paired with citizen concealed carry is such an explosive mix. It’s why SWATting results in tragedy. I’d suggest you listen to some more extensive examples of what Black folks call “the talk” that go beyond traffic stops, or attorneys who have made videos along the same lines. You’re essentially in a suspect class now, and acting as if you’re still the majority member you were could be mortally dangerous.)
I thought all the Second Ammendment fetishists taught that the Holocaust only happened because the folks being rounded up refused to shoot back. If we're being consistent with the NRA's teaching, you have a moral duty to be a cop killer.
It now strikes me, where are all the Second Ammendment Tree of Liberty folks? I thought our private arsenals warded off tyrants.
I hate so much that any of this comment can be remotely relevant.
Now the private arsenals are most likely to enable tyrants, rather than ward them off. No wonder they fought gun control; some of them surely saw this scenario coming.
In Texas, 18yo AmCits don't even need a license to concealed carry. The tactics that ICE are using here on *legal* immigrants are just begging for an accidental shootout with an AmCit who is carrying concealed.
Yes, that was my point. Plus, as a woman, there are other atrocities to consider. As a former educator, I never would’ve seen myself as a gun owner…but here we are, living the unimaginable.
Certainly not the guy who captured it on video, although of course we are thankful that he did, like the guy who videoed the cops beating Rodney King in LA. Evidence of law enforcement cruelty.
While watching it, I was wondering why he didn't call the cops and say a woman is being abducted on the street in front of my apt?
So much to wonder about, and few answers. I think the man making the video had a pretty good read in the situation; the masks, the conversation, the slow process didn’t mimic an actual kidnapping. And I’m guessing he knew the woman’s risk factors for attracting ICE, although that’s pure conjecture.
I’ve had similar videos running through my mind of a scenario where private security is involved, which is now a higher percentage of our high-end citizens and politicians. Trump has threatened so many Democratic politicians; let’s say Adam Schiff’s security responds as expected to a kidnapping? In my imagination, that’s when the hot civil war starts.
Also, as a very weird side note; what a time for actual old fashioned kidnappers.
I am so sorry our country has descended into this state of crisis for us immigrants, legal or otherwise. Please stay safe there. We need your witty and insightful comments to get through however long it takes.
But if I get killed by what turn out to be law enforcement officers while trying to protect my wife then I have now condemned my wife to the worst of all outcomes:
- I'm not alive to call the immigration lawyers
- I'm not alive to provide income to pay for said immigration lawyers
- Even if my immigration lawyers were on retainer and somehow got word after the fact, they're going to have a real hard time finding out where she is being detained/moved
- My wife ends up back in Venezuela through no fault of her own--potentially with pit stops along the way in places like Panama or El Salvador--and has no way of getting justice with nobody to support her claims.
That's your frontal cortex working. Keep thinking of all those reasons and you'll be in good shape if the heat of the moment comes. But - you don't want to make that moment an expectation. Do what you can each day to stay in the present moment.
Here's a legit question I have to ask myself nowadays:
If I am in my local neighborhood (Aurora, CO) with my Venezuelan wife who has legal permanent residency, and I'm legally concealed carrying a pistol (which I do), and a group of six men in masks approach us and put my wife in cuffs and start taking her to a van while saying they're police but refusing to show badges or give names, should I be drawing down on this group as they physically abduct my wife like they're one of the gangs from a "Taken" movie?
This is America now?
From a purely legal standpoint, you’re entitled to use reasonable force in the defense of others but that line is very precarious indeed and depends entirely on the good faith and reasonableness of all parties involved. That’s the hypothetical situation in a hypothetically democratic system. As JVL noted, we don’t live there anymore. If you want to stay alive, don’t brandish your weapon unless it’s a matter of life or death. If you intervene verbally and you’re handled by the goons, make sure you inform them you are armed and comply with all commands. You might survive the encounter or you might not. It’s a coin flip. Otherwise, prepare to be a martyr.
I've had you and your family on my mind since this all started. Stay safe, brother.
Thanks 🙏
I would not use a weapon but I would clutch my wife and scream bloody blue murder.
This is a great question.
How long until Bad Actors copycat these techniques and start abducting people and selling them into slavery or worse? Why didn't you fight back? Gee, I dunno, they said they were ICE, and we thought we could work it through the legal system?
You get idiots from MAGA claiming the Bill of Rights only applies to US citizens. How do we know the people being deported aren't US citizens? Prove it in a court of law, or it's just a suspicion. That's not an activist judge telling you to pause. That's a judge asking you to follow core tenets of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.
"How long until Bad Actors copycat these techniques and start abducting people and selling them into slavery or worse?"
I am white and my half sister is half white half Mexican, and she looks Mexican. We were both born here. This is keeping me up at night, as well as the probable escalations we'll see soon. "Luckily" she doesn't have a Spanish last name. I have asked her to start carrying a copy of her birth certificate in her purse and to get me a copy to carry as well. I'm trying to not be paranoid too early but I am so afraid for her. It is only a matter of time until they drop the immigration pretext and just start grabbing citizens too.
The irony of the gun nuts screaming about resisting tyranny, but when it arrives they’re the ones cheering for it.
But we all knew that was bullshit.
Variation on this: my husband is a GC holder. We now have a lawyer in our phone for when he travels and I (also a lawyer) am staying up to speed on ways to not simply know what to say, but how to make sure if he is taken, we can *track and find him.* Too many of these stories have this line in them: their lawyer doesn’t know where they are.
“Contracted” out perhaps
This is absolutely a legitimate question. Laws differ on how LEOs have to identify themselves, but of course, the laws rarely apply in these situations.
Best bet is probably to coordinate with lawyers beforehand and have your response ready so that if she's abducted you have a pre-existing legal plan that can be deployed.
This conversation just broke me. It's all been looking really bad and managing it all is tough, but I usually maintain composure. But there's something about you two, here in the comments like always, discussing something so horrific. It's so normal and familiar, almost comforting, except in this one grotesque way. Having to game out the various permutations of the abduction and defense of your wife... This shouldn't be real.
I am a lawyer, in Michigan, and my best legal/practical/personal safety advice is to conceal-carry your cellphone, fully charged, and be trained on how to quickly take video.
Seriously; just think of the number of cases of recent ICE abuse that we AREN'T talking about, because there was (a) no on-scene video and (b) no lawyers at the ready to file for TRO's and habeas.
I am glad we are talking about this Tufts case, and I just want to pause the discussion to thank and praise everyone who, at perhaps some personal risk, made the effort to record the event and get the video into the hands of people to make it public.
This scary and disgusting situation couldn't get much worse, although the one way it might have been worse is if it had turned into a gunfight with a dead conceal-carry husband, and Fox News hosts screaming (illegitimately) about violence against CBP/ICE cops "while making a lawful arrest."
By the way; since I live near the U.S. - Canada border (much love to my wonderful Canadian neighbors), I obtained a "Passport card" when I last renewed my U.S. Passport. It looks like a driver's license, except it contains your passport info.
You need your real passport, if you are traveling abroad. But the card works if you are traversing the Ambassador Bridge to go get some new hockey gear or Indian food or Canadian beer in Windsor, Ontario.
I don't always carry my Passport card, but I very often do. More so lately. I am right now. I personally think it would be a chore and an annoyance to always carry my actual Passport, but I completely understand why some people would.
U.S. Passport card:
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/need-passport/card.html
I'm not sure this solves the hypothetical problem of someone copycatting this approach and using it for "more criminal" means like human abduction. How do you tell legitimate LEOs from criminals?
You find out after the fact that they've been kidnapped by someone who isn't law enforcement? That's... not good.
Oh, that makes sense.
I know this is the best choice, and it is the one I am pre-committing to (I have my immigration lawyer's number ready to go). The fucked up part for me is that I'm a combat veteran with C-PTSD and every ounce of my prefrontal cortex and right amygdala are going to be pushing me into "protect mode" if something like this were ever to occur. We all know what we'd like to do in theory when we're not in the heat of a moment with milliseconds to make a decision, but we don't ever know how we're actually going to react until we're in the moment itself. That's the kind of shit I worry about in my personal case.
I wonder about this from the perspective of the woman being kidnapped. Even the first person approaching me like that would put me on full alert. Then the second and third person surrounding me, wearing masks, I would be freaking the fuck out. I couldn’t stop myself from physically fighting (C-PTSD here as well). It would be an instant reaction. And screaming.
I am surprised by the calmness of the two detainees we’ve seen being arrested like this. These guys could’ve bought those badges on Amazon.
What do people think about fighting on purpose, if you’re the one being arrested when you’re alone?
Some time ago I read about a someone conducting a group discussion on personal safety where the participants were asked what they did routinely to protect themselves whenever they went out. The men all looked baffled and every woman there had at least two precautions.
I can't imagine how any woman being grabbed on the street by a strange man, let alone several strange men, wouldn't think she was at risk of being raped, but the shock of what is happening can have different effects. Some will probably freeze, especially now when it's early days yet and people think they still have legal recourse. Speaking as a rape victim (it was many years ago) I made a conscious decision at the time not to fight because I thought he would kill me if I resisted, but figured (correctly, as it turns out) that I could get away once it was over if I moved fast enough. I believe many more women than we like to imagine make such calculations but as a culture we prefer dead rape victms to live ones who are somehow complicit in the assaults if they don't end up on an autopsy table
All of which is to say that fighting for your life may well get you shot by one of these knuckleheads - I'm assuming they're armed - but on the other hand who knows where they're taking you? In any event it's something to think about ahead of time and mentally prepare for.
Travis I hate that you and your family face this prospect. It’s illegal and unconstitutional.
It's illegal to impersonate law enforcement/government officials/ICE agents/etc., yet men* get ahold of a janky badge, uniform, lights and pull women over all the time. I'll let y'all fill in the rest. I routinely drive 150 miles+ for a doc appointment or for work and this is why I conceal carry.
Travis, I'd do the following in this order: call the police, then my lawyer (or have lawyer call 911), set my phone to record,,demand identification (ask your lawyer for the legal cite re: LEO/ICE duty to ID), and depending on what they say, let them know you're armed (in TX we have to disclose that immediately). Now here's the really hard part, speak in a calm, non-threatening manner.
I have C-PTSD, too, for different reasons so I get how your brain is in go mode. All I can say is that it would be *really* hard for me not to use the Remington .22 that's on my person whenever I leave my house. **OTOH, I'm also a lawyer so I know that pulling a gun on ICE agents is asking to be violently arrested, at a minimum, up to a shootout.**
JVL, would y'all still have my back if I were arrested under these circumstances?
*I've *never* heard of a woman pulling this stunt in my 15 years of criminal defense practice.
The unfortunate reality is that you would likely be shot and probably killed in a fullisade of gunfire (multiple rounds from the agents present, plus the misses that are going off to who knows where), because (from what I have seen) LEO fire discipline sucks.
One of the reasons that I do not carry a gun is because of this. I do not live in a high threat area, so I am not really concerned with personal defense. I AM concerned about using a weapon and having to deal with the consequences, because I AM the type of person that if I have the weapon, its coming out in a case like this.
And I am a REALLY good shot, I practice. Probably more than most LEOs do.
We are going to see some version of that story in this administration. I pray it is not yours. 🙏 (sincere emoji)
Can't say "LIKE", only "understood."
My question is since the detention facility in Louisiana is privately owned, isn’t there a chance that these masked people aren’t ICE at all?
Which company owns it?
The GEO Group from what I understand.
Thank you.
“Pre-lawyering”. Yesterday I wrote that just thinking about DOGE sniffing the voter rolls made me feel “pre-violated”. I have run similar tapes in my mind as Travis describes. Maybe we all need to pre-install a red alert app on our phones and have a finger poised over the panic button on the screen whenever we go out; the app would be pre-loaded with our pre-lawyer.
That’s a version of what I’ve been doing daily with my daughter for years. Since I live alone, I text her every morning. If she doesn’t hear from me she checks in. We even share a safe word, for “help!”.
I remember after 9/11 there was a brief interest in human microchips as we use for pets, to enable identification of the deceased, and location of survivors. My mind is going there again. Ah, but that would just cause them to ‘wand’ us and start cutting. I hate having these thoughts!
Around 2003 I had a friend who self implanted a dog microchip in his hand and used it to wave in front of the lock on his front door to get in! He loved it
That’s commitment to key-free living.
That’s hilarious! I remember a news story from probably 15 years ago of a tech freak who had a fairly large device installed in the back of his neck; it looked quite sore, and he abandoned his experiment fairly soon.
Microchips would allow the government to track us. NO WAY
I would point out that there's a 50% chance you typed this comment on a device which allows the government to track you. Cell phone location data is used regularly to establish where a suspect was at a given time.
Good point. But when they grab people off the street, I’m guessing they confiscate their phones (location devices) so your loved ones have no information. In my fantasy, the hidden chip still works - but that assumes a battery and range, which probably isn’t feasible . . . for now. Which means microchips can’t really be functional trackers even for the government. Back when the anti-vaxers thought there was a microchip small enough to go through a small gauge needle and STILL have that level of capability, I thought “if only!” There really is no recourse for those being nabbed.
And that’s why the idea died. But the government can only track you that way if they know you have a chip. But like I wrote; wanding as they do to dogs. The idea needs a lot of work! I’m not even a sci-fi fan, so someone else needs to work on it.
Also record everything.
THIS, ALL CAPS AND BOLD:
"Best bet is probably to coordinate with lawyers beforehand and have your response ready so that if she's abducted you have a pre-existing legal plan that can be deployed."
Since you aren’t MAGA, but you are a cis white male (I’m assuming from your profile), it’s a tough call. If you draw in this hypothetical, you’re getting killed, and your wife is still getting detained, but I admire how you’re thinking ahead to the political fallout and how you can best be of service to the cause even after you’re gone.
Make sure you have lots of TV-ready imagery on public social media and friends who can speak on you and your wife’s behalf. If you ever voted for Trump, or were ever a die-hard Republican, make sure they know that and will mention it to reporters (but urge them not to characterize your Republicanism — and certainly not mention never-Trumpers or, say, The Bulwark).
If you have any former friends you’ve lost touch with (perhaps intentionally on your part) who are MAGA — and especially if they are or are close to any MAGA influencers or electeds at any level, touch base if you can in a way that won’t tip them off you’ve gone turncoat. Then maybe, just maybe, your case will be one that someone takes up as a “maybe this is going a *liiiitle* too far?” moment.
(Sorry for the gallows humor around something so serious, but you got me yesterday, turnabout is only fair. I mean, to be serious, this is why we don’t want immigration enforcement mixed with other law enforcement, and why increased plainclothes-takedown for nonviolent offenses paired with citizen concealed carry is such an explosive mix. It’s why SWATting results in tragedy. I’d suggest you listen to some more extensive examples of what Black folks call “the talk” that go beyond traffic stops, or attorneys who have made videos along the same lines. You’re essentially in a suspect class now, and acting as if you’re still the majority member you were could be mortally dangerous.)
I thought all the Second Ammendment fetishists taught that the Holocaust only happened because the folks being rounded up refused to shoot back. If we're being consistent with the NRA's teaching, you have a moral duty to be a cop killer.
It now strikes me, where are all the Second Ammendment Tree of Liberty folks? I thought our private arsenals warded off tyrants.
I hate so much that any of this comment can be remotely relevant.
Now the private arsenals are most likely to enable tyrants, rather than ward them off. No wonder they fought gun control; some of them surely saw this scenario coming.
Republicans will embrace gun control for liberals and Dems.
The “Constitution for me not for thee” theory of governance.
In Texas, this is what I would (now) call survival.
In Texas, 18yo AmCits don't even need a license to concealed carry. The tactics that ICE are using here on *legal* immigrants are just begging for an accidental shootout with an AmCit who is carrying concealed.
Yes, that was my point. Plus, as a woman, there are other atrocities to consider. As a former educator, I never would’ve seen myself as a gun owner…but here we are, living the unimaginable.
Yea that Tufts U PhD student video is even more terrifying when you think about it from a woman's perspective.
Yes. Open season on women. What bystander would come to their aid during a kidnapping or even an assault?
Certainly not the guy who captured it on video, although of course we are thankful that he did, like the guy who videoed the cops beating Rodney King in LA. Evidence of law enforcement cruelty.
While watching it, I was wondering why he didn't call the cops and say a woman is being abducted on the street in front of my apt?
I wondered that too but I think if I were in his position I'd assume someone else would call and focus on getting clear footage
So much to wonder about, and few answers. I think the man making the video had a pretty good read in the situation; the masks, the conversation, the slow process didn’t mimic an actual kidnapping. And I’m guessing he knew the woman’s risk factors for attracting ICE, although that’s pure conjecture.
I’ve had similar videos running through my mind of a scenario where private security is involved, which is now a higher percentage of our high-end citizens and politicians. Trump has threatened so many Democratic politicians; let’s say Adam Schiff’s security responds as expected to a kidnapping? In my imagination, that’s when the hot civil war starts.
Also, as a very weird side note; what a time for actual old fashioned kidnappers.
This is wild. But so real.
Fuck, Travis. Damn.
I am so sorry our country has descended into this state of crisis for us immigrants, legal or otherwise. Please stay safe there. We need your witty and insightful comments to get through however long it takes.
Seems to me you have no choice but to defend your wife the best way you know how, as the circumstances insist.
Remember...
You weren't asked to be put in that position.
You were forced into it.
But if I get killed by what turn out to be law enforcement officers while trying to protect my wife then I have now condemned my wife to the worst of all outcomes:
- I'm not alive to call the immigration lawyers
- I'm not alive to provide income to pay for said immigration lawyers
- Even if my immigration lawyers were on retainer and somehow got word after the fact, they're going to have a real hard time finding out where she is being detained/moved
- My wife ends up back in Venezuela through no fault of her own--potentially with pit stops along the way in places like Panama or El Salvador--and has no way of getting justice with nobody to support her claims.
That's your frontal cortex working. Keep thinking of all those reasons and you'll be in good shape if the heat of the moment comes. But - you don't want to make that moment an expectation. Do what you can each day to stay in the present moment.
Your points are well taken and valid.
It's a horrible situation which has no good solution.