Trump and Vance are pioneering a form of politics where American power means nothing, everything is bad, and politicians focus on tearing people down—and getting other Americans to do the same. Plus, the challenge of defining freedom, why conservative Jews are giving Trump a pass on his antisemitism, and a good and insightful poll on the presidential race.
Timothy Snyder joins Tim Miller.
show notes
Snyder's new book, "On Freedom"
Sidney Blumenthal's piece on Trump's Hitlerian logic
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Hope you put out something on this:
Town hall: Latinos Ask… Donald Trump Responds
Question is roughly: "What mistakes have you done and what have you learned from it?"
https://www.youtube.com/live/F3tvZi5fTZw?t=3160s
Answer is just what you might predict
Thank you very much for this interview Tim's. I would appreciate more content on the Bulwark with people like this who have thought deeply about particular issues. I found the discussion on freedom starting at about the 35 minute mark to be particularly insightful - of course, I would hope that it would be insightful given that it's the title of the guest's book. For someone who is paying close attention to the race and listening to the Bulwark pretty much every day it's useful to get the in-depth perspective of the concept of freedom given how the Harris campaign has co-opted it from the Trump Republicans. Thanks for a very interesting interview - plan to listen to it again.
After prepping my east coast Florida home for Milton, I finally had the chance to view this episode. Thank you for such a thoughtful interview with Timothy Snyder. Both of you bring me hope. And thanks for the shout out to Florida, where the wind is howling and the palm fronds are flying and the hurricane has not yet arrived.
Sherry, I wish you the best. Please take care. Let us know you're ok. I'll be sending positive energy.
Thank you Tim's. This was a heavy but thoughtful topic on Freedom. I had to re listen a few times to get it (running on the treadmill at the same time probably wasn't the best activity in hindsight).
I was a little surprised though Tim that you couldn't say more at the end. I know you might consider Tim S views 'typical college leftie stuff' but this heavy and critical thinking is what is required if mindset shift and deprogramming of a good 30% of US political views needs to happen. Freedom and hows it understood and framed is critical. You correctly pointed out that Harris campaign had surface touched these concepts. But your wrap up was flat, and you've given more gushing thanks to friendly journos than to gents like Tim S who are really trying to do their bit to keep facism at bay.
Look I know your comms background means you probably hard wired revert to making the message simpler. And that's a great talent it is. And your show is the highlight of my listening week (I love your style, authenticity and points of view) but I don't think we should be lazy in not acknowledging complex points that need more stewing over. I hope you take this feedback as intended. I really admire the work bulwark does. Please don't stop!!!
tim!
i'm in tampa, so i'll play the milton victim card to get you to answer this question:
according to prevailing political wisdom, why does shapiro have to BE ON THE TICKET to best secure PA's electoral votes?
*why isn't working "off the ticket" just as
effective? snugs to toulouse!💚💚🤞🏽🤞🏽
thank you!
all is good; i live in a lower-class neighborhood, but it's the beverly hills of hurricanes LOL... i'm very lucky.
lost power and some patio fencing. most villas (like a condo) in my complex didn't even lose a shingle. trees down blocking my main road (himes in tampa).
i'm so "high" up, we're not even assigned a flood zone: A-F and we're X.
tampa didn't get the 100% direct hit we were expecting, but others are worse off as a result.😵😖
my dad and step-mom lost everything in helene, and are staying with me till they find housing.
mr. rogers says, "look for the helpers."
all i ask is be a helper. 😘
Steph, good luck and best wishes! I hope you get through with no damage. Please let us know. I'm sure we will all be thinking about you.
Wonderful discussion with Tim Snyder. His writing is full of insights and plays to the best of the human experience without sugar-coating the full spectrum of human nature. Please have him back on again as soon as possible.
I also don't understand how Trump doing better in large states is good news for anyone but him. Absent some countervailing evidence that swing states are leaning more towards Harris (and the available evidence seems to be going the other way, with Pennsylvania on knife's edge, the Wisconsin Senate race tightening and the stories about scary internal polling in Michigan) all this means is that Trump is on track to win the EC and do better than ever in the popular vote, perhaps with coattails.
Another (fascist) opportunity to use this oh so applicable exit tune:
https://youtu.be/Q49BjlSOCGE?si=QLXbEGyzp_sd0H0b
I'm so tired of hearing people like Tim's email friend equate anti-semitism on the left with that on the right. He's not center right. He's out there. How many of these college protestors are elected Democratic officials? What impact do they have on policy? The answer is none. They call Biden Genocide Joe. This is silly and a rerun of the defund the police lie that many Bulwarkers helped promote. Acting like campus protestors are comparable to the Republican presidential nominee is lunacy and people need to stop.
Great pod! Love the Tims!
Attorney Andrew Seidel also came out with another book in 2022 called the “American crusade: How the Supreme Court is weaponizing religious freedom”
Please again have him as a guest on your podcast. I am sure he would be happy to do it .
Tim there is a book
“The Founding Myth: Why Christian Nationalism is In- American” written by Andrew L. Seidel written in 2019
He is a constitutional attorney at the Freedom from Religion Foundation
He has been trying to ring this alarm, bell for many years
Please please have him as a guest on your podcast
He should be out there talking more
I saw him years ago on MSNBC
I think he was on Fox once
Statistics were never my strong point. I got totally confused by Tim's discussion of the polls. Trump up by 15 points in places but overall the polling looks good for Harris? Can someone please explain it to me because it sounded very scary and discouraging even though Tim was saying otherwise.
The way I took it was that, if Trump is gaining national popular vote numbers in polling because he's gaining ground in securely blue states, then scary national popular vote numbers are less worrisome in their Electoral College implications. Extra Trump voters in California or New York don't give Trump more Electoral College votes in those states than are already baked into the forecasts for THIS election. Sort of the inverse of why any growing support for Dems in my home state of Missouri would mean nothing for what Missouri delivers to the Electoral College.
But for future elections? If the number of Trumpist voters in California and New York continue to rise and Trump and/or his acolytes are still at it in 2028, Never Trumping begins to look like a forever war (unless of course Trump wins this time out and begins purging people like all of us).
Hoping for the best here.
Thank you! Now I get it!
Of course, ANY increasing numbers of Trump voters anywhere gives me hives.
Thank you for this expanded conversation on the nature of freedom. I did student teaching in Sydney 25 years ago, and my landlady’s partner was a lawyer who taught me for the first time a similar concept of how unfettered freedom can inhibit personal liberty. One of the main takeaways I never forgot was “yes, in America everyone is more free to do whatever they want, but do most people have the resources, security and opportunity to do what they want”.
In this time of intense daily poll watching and day to day news that will be irrelevant by midnight, I appreciate a conversation that will be interesting and meaningful any time in the future. Thank you Tims!
This was a fantastic episode. It’s a clear-eyed take on Trump and MAGA.
Related to this, I’d like to recommend another important book on this situation: Brian Gruber's most recent book - link below. It is good to remember it can and could happen in the US, just like across Europe.
https://www.amazon.com/My-Fabulous-Fascist-Summer-Vacation/dp/B0DJBQH9MQ/ref=sr_1_1
Thank you for this GREAT episode! I wish Kaitlan Collins and others would listen!
I think there are three major stories that have risen to the top in this election:
1. The clear gender gap that has opened between progressivism and Trumpism (or however you want to define that trainwreck)
2. The role of antisemitism- or on a more basic level how is antisemitism expressed in our politics across the board and
3. The open expression of transphobia
As the parent of an incredibly well adjusted 19 year-old trans son, I’ve been horrified by the wide acceptance of the dehumanization of transgender people. I’m even more horrified by the transphobia demonstrated by people who identify as LGB. It smacks of “I got mine, you get yours.” The political ads in Texas paid for and sponsored by GOP candidates openly embrace transphobia and spread disinformation.
I’m 56. Which means I was in high school during the AIDS crisis of the 80s where homophobia was rampant.
I listen to your podcast daily. I attended the live podcast in Dallas last month. Do you think you could devote at least one show to this moral contagion of transphobia?
I literally fear for my child’s life every day. I’m paying a fortune to send him to college out of state. Trump and Musk are doubling down (I hate that turn of phrase) on the “woke mind virus.” This is an issue of human rights.
Good show. Thanks for the kind words about us in FL, we are ALL very nervous about this one...it's insane.
Tim - you’re very thoughtful to add the note at the end of the pod regarding your opening conversation with Kaitlin Collins. But from my POV, people should just know that. You’re both political reporters, it’s like an ongoing nightmarish Olympics, what will you do when it’s coconut time, will we all go back to our normal hobbies, will we take time to learn a second language, read the classics, enjoy lower blood pressure, become reacquainted with ease and possibly boredom at (some of) the news… just wanted to say that I’m sure most listeners understood the banter. But again, you’re incredibly thoughtful to continue to address the concerns of those who reach out. ✌️
Yes. This. In moments of hopefulness, I have thought about this space here that has provided an outlet to release some of my angst, and how I will feel about it if my wildest dreams ever come true and we get back to reasonable, principled, non-existential differences of opinion. I would miss this, so I can identify with the sentiments expressed in the Tim/Kaitlin conversation. But I'd miss the rule of law and values of the country more so I'll figure it out, as will they.
Agreed on all points. I thought it was clear what they meant but always appreciate a thoughtful clarification. I also understand the desire to stay here in this time, before the election where he isn’t President and can’t be President yet. If he wins we will long for these days again
You have fascinating guests, Tim. I am always shocked by how willing people are to surrender their personal volition and agency and "obey in advance", as Professor Snyder expresses it. Thank you for providing this thought-provoking content, day after day. I'm constantly impressed by both the quantity and the quality.
This jives with books like Ordinary Men that people are so driven by the need to fit in that they will do almost anything to avoid being labeled outcasts.
This is excellent. I fight for freedom every single day in Texas. I resonated with every word of this. Thank you Tim, and everyone at the Bulwark.
Superb. Thank you. I need to get started on his book.
This was awesome.
Speaking as an anti-trump Jew (and an extremely orthodox one in my personal practice), the reason so many in my community give trump’s obvious anti-semitism a pass is because they (correctly) perceive left-wing anti-semitism as a direct threat to Jewish life in Israel and in American in the short term. Post 7/10 many Jews will vote entirely on the question of safety for them and their family and I think that the trump term was good for Jews (without whitewashing). Again, I’m not saying Jews should vote for him, I’m just explaining why many will (including my friends and family), and why I think they’re reasonable. When you go through life worried about your physical safety, about the safety of your kids (I don’t let the kids go to the park on their own anymore because both they and I have been accosted in the streets too many times in the past year, and once assaulted), you start looking out for short term security as the primary focus. It’s an instinct. Most of us who are visibly Jewish are currently in that space. The culprits are left wing anti-semites (I’m sorry, I’m meant to say anti-zionists).
Thank you for sharing, and for so perfectly capturing this moment of danger for Jews in America. I'm so sorry for what you and your family have gone through over this very difficult past year. עם ישראל חי
Is handing over power to the drunk, delusional uncle whose racism towards Muslims is stronger than his racism towards Jews really the answer? His bumbling foreign policy will not make Jewish people safer.
Exceptionally good one. Will definitely pick up his book because the whole "freedom from" lens is the only lens I've known for such a long time.
Came here to add to SEC Talk: Hook Em 🤘🏻
I really like snyder and I find his analysis useful but I struggle with his Ukraine analysis.
I really want to give Ukraine more (to be fair I have no understanding of (1) war strategy and (2) what we have to give). However, snyder seems to understand the politics of the situation. There is just no world in which (1) the USA gives more than it already has and (2) is able to ever give enough for Ukraine to “win” the war. No matter what happens in November, the one thing I’m confident of is that republicans will take at least one house of congress. There is no world where the aid package we give Ukraine isn’t substantially smaller than what the Republican congress delayed for 6 months 4 months ago. There is also no chance that (1) Ukraine gets admitted to nato (Hungary gets a vote) and (2) that Americans will ever sign a security deal where Americans fight for Ukrainians. Those wishes are just not politically feasible
We could double the effectiveness of our aid to Ukraine if we would stop limiting how Ukraine could use Western weapons. Also, timing matters: If we had not dithered for months before delivering systems that Ukraine requested, they could have hit the Russians while they were down. In every case, whether intentionally or not, Biden allowed the Russians to recover and regroup before approving new weapons systems, allowing opportunities to pass.
The Biden administration, like most Democrats, is ambivalent about the exercise of US power. They are scared to death of being compared to the people they hate most in the world: Neocons.
Bruce, please show your work. Double? It would marginally help. Timing ? Come on Bruce. Do you think the military is Costco? Not all of what they want or need is available or staged in other theaters. I find it so anointing that ex-republicans now sound like dems where everything that happens is America’s fault. Ukraine has made MASSIVE mistakes in this war and hasn’t course corrected fast enough. Kursk was a terrible mistake. Not drafting people a year ago was a massive mistake. Not drafting 18 year olds was a massive mistake.
Obviously we could have done better in someways but let’s be clear it would have helped on the margins. Don’t get me wrong, that’s important. However it wouldn’t have won the war.
This is all besides the point though. That wasn’t what I wasn’t commenting on. It’s what happens post election. The aid will be smaller likely much smaller. Ukraine needs to make a strategy with that in my mind.
Really, a cat food ad interrupting such a sober discussion of death in Ukraine.
This was my second dose of Snyder today (Jen Rubin’s Green Room). Benefited from both discussions given how meaty the topic is. Ending on the beauty of no one approach being definitively correct while a blended approach might lead to a more fruitful outcome was music to my ears. We are free to make mistakes in policy decisions. The key is maintaining freedom as the assessment tool that then infuses us with the freedom to change a mistaken course hopefully for the better. (Reminds me of Madiba K. Dennie’s inclusive constitutionalism.)
The MAGA focus on a cartoonish version of masculinity lines up with their views of strength, wealth, class, and intellect. The fact is that masculinity is one of those attributes in which people whow actually possess it rarely feel the need to talk about it.
I forget where I heard this, but I think it applies: "Trump is a poor man's idea of a rich man. A stupid man's idea of a smart man. And a weak man's idea of a strong man."
Interesting. I’ve always thought of it as a construct.
Great conversation between the Tims. I read some of Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism essay today and was truly struck by how perfectly his 14 points aligned to MAGA's words and deeds... it was like reading the horoscope from hell.
What a wonderful, thoughtful conversation!
Love Timothy Snyder. Love Tim Miller too, of course.
I know, Christie, so many Tims, so little time.
Thank you for the great and insightful talk with Tim Snyder! Also you guys have probably had Ruy Texeira on before but even if you have it would be a great interview here or over on the Focus Group podcast!
God no. That guys is constantly dead wrong. I highly recommend you listen to the conversation between ruy and Ezra Klein to see just how he has absolutely no evidence for any of his “theories” (fyi they are just things he wants/likes and just works backwards to say it’s popular).
I will, thanks! Ezra Klein is great —
I was one of the Bulwark listeners who lost my mind listening to Texiera on the Bulwark last year. His thinking and talking felt dishonest somehow - don't remember the details but it is all in the comments....Douthatian? https://www.thebulwark.com/p/orange-man-bad-is-not-enough-with
Teixiera? God no, please no.
I must be an outlier on that ( though that isn't surprising, I am on a lot of things...lol)
I like him
As a Jew I think the reason that many of my coreligionists focus on the antisemitism of the Left rather than the RIght is from a sense of abandonment. We thought we had friends and allies in the progressive Left but now feel alone and left wondering where to look for friends.
Respectfully, I think you’re adopting Republican’s framing that the progressive left defines the entire Democrat party. As Tim has mentioned a lot, this just isn’t true.
I know that there are many among the Democrats that have our back. Still its a troubling time. I am a strong supporter of Harris and main stream Democrats.
I strongly suspect you were never “on the left” if you can’t see the humanity in the Palestinian people who by all accounts are suffering more than we can imagine. They don’t even have food and water. Diseases are spreading, but Israel continues to bomb refugee camps, schools, and hospitals. What part of all that can anyone determine is not protestable?
What a lot of people including Joe Biden see is an Israeli government response that is way beyond precise or even considerate of the humanity of the civilians there, and in Lebanon too. This is repeated by aid workers, the UN, visiting doctors from the US and others. Your view that people who protest such destruction and killing as somehow antisemitic is an apparent justification for your own deep racism against Palestinians and other Arab people. And for the record, antiwar protests are an American tradition that go back decades. Especially on college campuses, but certainly not exclusively.
I do see the humanity of the Palestinians but very few of them return the favor. I also feel the humanity of Jews who were kicked out of Arab countries where their families lived for more than a thousand years. Israel took those in and now they represent a majority of Isrealis. And they tell stories of how they were treated. In the Arab world if a Jew had a dispute with an Arab they would always lose. Often they would tell their neighbors that the Jew had said something negative about the prophet and the axe would be waiting for them. Why hasnt the Arab world absorbed the Palestinians instead of using them for their own ends? I am not terribly sympathetic to folks that want me dead.
Shellina, what specifically in Lisa's comment led you to conclude that she does not see the humanity in the Palestinian people?
My reply about that was directed at "Jill" and it ended up under someone else's comment. It was not directed at Lisa.
Franklin Foer wrote a masterful cover story on this in the Atlantic.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/04/us-anti-semitism-jewish-american-safety/677469/
As a life long leftist who has known a whole lot of Jewish anti-Zionists (remember when they were called “self hating Jews”?), I would argue that, while this might be what some Jews are feeling, that doesn’t mean it’s based on reality. I think it’s more a result of the fact that a couple of pro-Bibi Jewish organizations are promoting the idea that any criticism of Israel from the left is equivalent to antisemitism, while they downplay right wing antisemitism.
I recently compared two stories in Jewish magazines about the attacks at City College: one didn’t say how many people were involved, which made it feel huge; the other said 30 people were involved, and pointed out how gigantic City College is.
The ultra-leftists (who to me are just neo-Stalinists) have never been anyone’s friend: they were claiming that “Zionism is racism” back in the 80s. The fact that a bunch of kids have gotten on board with them isn’t such a surprise to someone like me, who was a kid in the 60s and still thinks about how the brain doesn’t finish developing until one’s mid 20s.
I’m a shiksa and I find them scary too, but I think the tiny crew that showed up at the Democratic Convention also says something about their actual numbers.
The fact that many people on the left hate Bibi (including a considerable number of Israelis) doesn’t mean we are no longer “friends and allies” of the Jewish people. Bibi belongs in jail, and most of the people I know who agree with me are Jewish. And most of us are with the families of the hostages, who are fighting for a cease fire. We are more distressed about Israel turning into a rogue state than we are about idiot students chanting moronic slogans.
I am 67 And remember my parents using the term "self hating Jews." In a recent interview with Tim Miller on the Bulwarrk, Tim Snyder Back to way from a comparison of the relative Problem of right and left-wing anti semitismcomma making the point that we tend to see the anti-Semitism coming from the other side is worse period I agree with his premise About us feeling less of a threat from our own political cohort, but agree with you, Lisa, that the actual threat of right-wing extremism is greater in terms of the propensity for immediate hate crimes above and beyond rhetoric period of course the probably foreign funded global anti-Semitism showing up on campuses is culturally corrosive, but I don't think It has as imminent a risk of fomenting widespreador extreme violence.
I want to add to what I wrote above. I am in no way saying there isn’t a global rise in antisemitism, but it seems to be funded by Putin and his right wing buddies. Just listen to what right wing media has to say about Zelensky. I don’t hear anyone on the left promoting those ugly stereotypes.
I'm on the left. I don't think people on the left have any problem whatsoever with American Jewish people and consider you and others just as we consider others, as fellow Americans. It's the leadership of Israel that we have a huge problem with. Israel is committing ethnic cleansing, probably genocide, in Gaza, which is clear to see if you look at the destruction and read the stats on how many people have been killed, how many children, etc. It's obvious. How could any American support that? The Israeli government is the problem.
And I know the Tims mean well, but antisemitism is not worse a worse thing than Islamaphobia. Both are bad. The Israeli government is clearly made up of people who hate Palestinians - all of them - at a gut level, and want to destroy them all, everywhere, and that is just as bad as any antisemitism anywhere on earth.
This is why I am no longer on the Left. They are either in denial or they fully support the extermination of Jews in the Middle East but they claim they are not antisemitic since they are OK with Jews in the US.
Thank you David for your comment. I’m an atheist and had thought of myself as a Liberal Progressive and I am appalled at the antisemitism on the Left. I no longer think of myself as a progressive (the word has been taken over by antisemites). I was very upset with Biden last spring when he didn’t come out sooner to speak up when the campus protests were taking over the campuses. My blood pressure actually shot up to 170 and I am not even Jewish. I had to turn off the TV in order to survive. I just want to let you know that there are Liberals like myself that still have your back. I have to admit that in this moment, I really wish we had a RINO like McCain running for President. I’m keeping an eye out for down ballot candidates and voting against antisemitism.
What antisemitism are you seeing? It's not the campus protests, or other protests against the war in Gaza. That is not antisemitism. I'm afraid Tim gets it wrong when he characterizes protests as against Jewish people. That is not what they are. They are human rights activists protesting the war and the murder of innocent civilian's and the ethnic cleansing in Gaza. It's not antisemitic to call out the Israeli government for their human rights abuses. If people are going to complain about growing antisemitism I would like to see one example of that, and then see where and how often it is happening. It's not happening at anti-war protests.
Most of the claims of "growing" antisemitism in the US come from the ADL and AIPAC, which are not American democratic institutions. They are biased arms of the Israeli government.
There has certainly been *some* antisemitism among campus Gaza protests. It's incorrect and unfair to characterize the protests overall that way, but what else can you call someone holding a sign that explicitly celebrates Hamas murderers? What else is it when Jewish students are harassed for *being* Jewish, without having expressed any politics at all?
I haven't seen anything like what you describe. I saw normal anti-war protesting college students. I didn't see signs celebrating Hamas, I didn't see hate in their midst for anything other than killing, genocide, and the war itself. But I saw no antisemitism in the protesting groups on campuses. Obviously I didn't see everything they were doing. A lot of those protesters were Jewish students who were being harassed by police and by the media and by the pro-war people who didn't like them joining in the anti-war protesting.
Did you see “From the River to the Sea,” the slogan used in the Hamas charter? How about “By Any Means Necessary,” beside the Palestinian flag? What do these say to you, if not the violent erasure of Jewish Israel?
How about the Star of David depicted as trash to be “cleaned”?
https://israelnoticias.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/cartel-antisemita-il-1140x570.webp
How about images celebrating the “resistance” of the Hamas paraglider attack on the music festival?
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/10/10/18/76391603-12615673-image-m-36_1696960241231.jpg
Yes that pink sign is an expression of antisemitism for sure. The other sign is bad too mostly because of the paraglider. But what is the context for those signs, where did they appear, who held them up and why. I'd have to know more. I also don't get too excited by signs in a protest, I've seen hundreds of them myself and some go over the top and some don't. They are just signs. They are not actions that kill people. We have free speech in the US and lots of that speech consists of words that are going to bother me and you and other people, but that doesn't mean we create incidents out of them that have to be stopped. Protesting is a right of all Americans.
FWIW I gotta add, the slogan "From the River to the Sea" is not antisemitic, as explained by Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, and in any case, it's freely used by many Israelis themselves. I would suggest seriously that the "By any means necessary" slogan fits Netanyahu and the IDF better than anyone, because it's how they are behaving.
E2 yes, saw all of this. Some claim that from the river to the sea simply means freedom for all from the river to the sea but this seems to ignore the historical use of the slogan period it is much more difficult to argue that pictures of the hanggliders and finish the job and that type of stuff is not anti-Semitic. To have completely missed any exposure to these manifestations, regardless of whether they reflect the majority, which they do not, suggests a very narrow information ecosystem.
Shellinaya - It is not the case that "most of the claims of "growing" antisemitism in the US come from the ADL and AIPAC" I am critic of Israeli military actions, settlements and other right wing policy. The campus protests I have seen in person and in the media are a mix of sincere and high minded political action and legitimately pro-Hamas and overtly antisemitic manifestations. The FBI has tracked a sharp rise in antisemitic hate crimes in the U.S. since October 7 and there is a global increase in antisemitism fueled online by propaganda sources including Iranian, Russian, and Chinese bots. https://www.newsweek.com/iran-china-russia-are-winning-global-propaganda-war-opinion-1859181. Antisemitism is not a far-right Jewish conspiracy theory. Let me know if you would like more info on this. I am sure I can find it for you.
Many of us who know that criticism of Israeli policy is not inherently antisemitic also know that antisemitism is real. As a Jew who has studied this extensively, and without going into a lot of detail, I am much more concerned about antisemitism on the right than on the left, though it is all bad.
Of course antisemitism happens but many people question the claim of massive spikes in incidents of it, because of the source of that info. Who counts antisemitic incidents in the US and provides those numbers to the media who then report those numbers without any other checking? The ADL does most of it. I don't know where the FBI numbers go, (and where are those numbers) but it's not to the media. The ADL is a lobby group for Israel. The reason the media reports a sharp rise in antisemitic incidents in the US is largely due to the info they get from this lobbying group.
What is the ADL criteria for counting an antisemitic incident? It's not clear. Just supporting civilians and criticizing the war, seems to be enough.
https://www.adl.org/resources/report/audit-antisemitic-incidents-2023
We also know they have changed their definition of antisemitism this year and it's controversial.
"Anti-Defamation League ramps up lobbying to promote controversial definition of antisemitism
Federal records show a dramatic spending increase that critics say is primarily intended to punish criticism of Israel and target pro-Palestinian groups. The spending positions the ADL as the largest pro-Israel lobbying force on domestic issues. Records show the surge’s broader aim is to promoting a controversial definition of antisemitism across a range of federal agencies and mobilizing the government to enforce it.. ."
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/15/adl-lobby-antisemitism-definition
Where is the FBI data on antisemitism?
I found one reference to it - on the ADL website, with no link to the evidence.
Shellinaya, I see what you are saying. The ADL seems to be the foremost source of statistics quoted in various outlets, and references in the same articles to FBI statistics lead to DOJ/FBI web pages that are difficult to navigate. I was unable to find specific breakouts for anti-Jewish hate crimes. I found info about the Also understand the concern about a broad definition including rhetoric amid conflicting opinions of what is in and out of bounds. I have reached out to a guy who runs the Study of Hate and Extremism at California State University, San Bernardino because his research was quoted in The New York Times (though the link doesn’t work). Hoping he can help me find the FBI stats, to the extent they exist, or tell me if there is anything from sources other than the ADL.
Christopher Wray mentioned the issue generally, but without statistics or trends, in testimony to Congress:
https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/117545/witnesses/HHRG-118-JU00-Wstate-WrayC-20240724-U1.pdf
“Presently, while we have no information to indicate that Hamas has the intent or capability to conduct operations inside the United States, though we cannot, and do not, discount that possibility, we are especially concerned about the possibility of Hamas supporters engaging in violence on the group’s behalf. As always, we are concerned with any FTO that may exploit the attacks in Israel as a tool to mobilize their followers around the world. In recent years, there have been several events and incidents in the United States that were purportedly motivated, at least in part, by the conflict between Israel and Hamas. These have included the targeting of individuals, houses of worship, and institutions associated with the Jewish and Muslim faiths with acts of physical assault, vandalism, or harassment. AntiSemitism and anti-Islamic sentiment permeate many violent extremist ideologies and serve as a primary driver for attacks by a diverse set of violent extremists who pose a persistent threat to Jewish and Muslim communities and institutions in the United States and abroad. FTOs have exploited previous conflicts between Israel and Hamas via media outlets and online communications to call on their supporters located in the United States to conduct attacks. Some violent extremists have used times of heightened tensions to incite violence against religious minorities, targeting both Jewish and Muslim Americans.”
Wray also talks about record highs, but without numbers and charts:
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/31/politics/fbi-director-antisemitism-wray/index.html
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/fbi-director-testifies-threat-of-antisemitism-reaching-historic-levels/ (not a publication I particularly respect)
Thanks for all that and I would be interested in the FBI's findings and their actual data on this alleged rise of antisemitism and whether or not it is rising more or less than anti-black hate, anti-Arab hate, anti-women hate, etc. I can't find their actual numbers and I can't find the FBI's definition of "antisemitic" either and I think that matters a lot.
that’s interesting