All Americans who love this country and hate Donald Trump deserve answers about Thursday's abysmal performance—and how we are going to move forward. And do not answer our doubts about Biden and his staff with a MAGA-style blaming-the-press bit. Meanwhile, the Supreme Court recklessly assists Trump yet again, and Bannon goes to the big house. Tom Nichols joins Tim Miller.
show notes:
Louisiana...... yeahhhhh I live here.. phewwww. I ranted to JVL a year and a half ago when he was kind enough to answer an email. I am dumbfounded by the Jeff Landry governorship but the whole process of watching pre-election the "When Jeff Landry is Governor we won't have to put up with all the b.s. anymore!" ....50 things he would do and after reading the posts from his A.G. about his pursuit of the FBI and Biden(along w/ Missouri AG) that it was going to be nothing short of ridiculous. I am unsure what it is like in those "liberal commie hell holes up North" etc... for certain but it amazes me what people will choose and believe here. And let state many many of these people are the "shirt of my back", stop in the rain to help change a spare tire types but they are convinced MAGA is the answer.
“Whooping Cough is the Roar of Freedom!” 😂 I put off this podcast for fear that I’d jump off a cliff after listening to this duo at this particular moment in time. Who knew Tom Nichols would bring in a (wee) side of hopium AND a laugh. Or my baseline has descended into Hade’s underworld. Hard to tell.
Tim, you've got to release the texts! Even if you anonymise them it's your civic duty to let the people know what Democrats really think.
Thank you Tim Miller and Tom Nichols - a podcast I listen to faithfully with a guest I enjoy and seek out for written work in The Atlantic.
I am beyond frustrated with comments here chastising you for questioning the wisdom of Biden at the top of the ticket.
Lifelong D. Would NEVER EVER vote for Trump. However, after the debate I don’t think I can vote for Biden. Both parties are on the verge of nominating, at their respective conventions, two men neither of whom is fit to be President of the United States, albeit for different reasons (fwiw, RFK, Jr. is unfit as well).
1. Trump is morally, intellectually, and temperamentally unfit.
2. FFS, it is not Biden’s age, it is his mental capacity/competency. I have not seen anyone pushing back on Axios reporting that WH staffers stated that Biden is “reliably engaged between 10:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m.” That’s not good enough. I am not voting for his team. The President has to be “with it” mentally more than 6 hours a day. He could be 100 years old, and if he could currently speak forcefully (extemporaneously, not reading from a teleprompter) I’d have no compunction in voting for him again, and hope for the best for the next four yeses. The fact that he has not been sitting for unscripted interviews since the debate is compelling circumstantial evidence that he is not capable of doing so NOW. That is disqualifying in my view. There’s too much going on in the world. Who is going to be making decisions the other 18 hours of the day when the President is not fully engaged?
3. I don’t care how many good things the administration has done in the last 3 1/2 years. President Biden has to inspire confidence that he is electable in November and after the debate he clearly is not. His margin in the Electoral College in 2020 was under 45,000 votes I believe. After the debate, if he continues as the nominee, independents and suburban R’a that he needs in swing states that will determine the outcome of the election will leave the top of the ballot blank. There is no margin for error and Biden doesn’t appear to be adding enough to his 2020 coalition to offset the voters he is losing.
4. Watching the debate, I wondered for the first time whether the Cabinet should consider acting under the 25th Amendment. I am angry with President Biden, his family, and campaign staff. I feel like I have been lied to. Arguably, Vice President Harris should perhaps be President Harris right now.
5. The pro-Biden constituency is not enough to carry the day in November. Give me Harris/midwestern Governor, the inverse, or an entirely new ticket, and I will vote enthusiastically for generational change regardless of the composition of the ticket. I am now “Anyone but Biden.”
5. The debate wasn’t one bad night. It’s not that President Biden’s “performance” was lacking. Anyone who has gone through it with a parent can see that something is wrong with President Biden. CNN made it clear they weren’t going to fact check - that’s on the debater. So don’t blame CNN for not fact-checking Trump’s lies. Any decent trial lawyer knows you don’t have to respond to every lie when they are coming out of a firehouse. You have to be nimble enough on your feet to pick out the main one or two, address them, and then pivot to make a point in your favor. I have seen no evidence recently that President Biden has any current capacity to do that.
Looking forward to the Iron Lungs and calipers being dusted off to treat the Polio patients again. Not.
Joe Biden got knocked down and got back up again, when he was a younger man! It gets a lot harder the older you get. Mika should have acknowledged that.
Leak the texts! Leak the texts, Tim! Do it! It's the right thing to do in this time of crisis for your country, as you've just said yourself. It's also the best thing to do for the rest of the world who is staring into the Trump abyss.
Damn, if you read the whole NYT article, it's really just about the past June while he was traveling continually and doing way too much. The idea that he's being pilloried for being tired . . . damn, let's get the whole picture why not?
Tim, thank you for bringing up the Hur report tape!!!!! Imagine if that is as bad as could be and comes out the last week of September?????
Thank you Tim and Tom. As always I appreciate your opinions and food for thought. I think the bottom line is just how you put it, Just Show Up! We must protect our democracy!
Hi Tim! Thank you so much for this episode - it is the first thing that I’ve heard after the “debate” that does not make me want to pull my hair out. It was so good to hear someone calling all this justification for the bs it is. Spinning and justifications are making me crazy. Thank you again from the bottom of my heart!
Other commenters are saying what I wanted to say here, so I will just say thank you, thank you. I’m not going crazy, after all.
Whatever Kamala Harris's failings as a retail politician might be, she is at least coherent in unscripted press encounters, and it's very clear at this point that Biden no longer has that ability, at least not reliably. It's been 5 days since the debate, plenty of time to let him do something that shows he can do more than read a teleprompter. If they thought he could pull it off, they would have let him. The Joe Biden of 2020 would have insisted on getting out there. That man is no longer with us, sadly. I'm not saying he's necessarily incompetent to govern, but part of being president is being available to the people. It's an essential part of leadership. It's ironic that we're all so furious about SCOTUS enabling Trump as an American king while it's our side that's hiding our standard bearer as if he were a mad king.
Part of me wants us to hunker down and just get through this with careful stage management because I know there are swing voters out there who might vote for Biden but will stay home if it's Harris, or even vote for Trump. But I also know that there are many Democrats who will likely stay home if they feel like their only choice is to vote for a senile old man. Everyone is so focused on pleasing the swing voters in MI, WI, and PA that I'm afraid they're forgetting about the need to rally the disaffected portion of the base in those states. Harris can help with that. I know she's not appealing to the Never Trump contingent, but she is well liked by many Democrats and she can make the case against Trump. Even if Biden is not going to step down, the campaign should have her out there doing the stuff he can't do.
Tim, you should get Rep. Auchincloss on - he’s articulating the case you are making so well!
Good podcast. We have until the convention to figure this all out. I am not concerned about the current debate. But once it is time for the convention we have to join arms and be together in this fight. It will take every single one of us plus those we can convince to join us in this battle to defeat Trump. #NeverTrump
Can someone please tell me the name of the man who Tim Miller interviewed this past year. He had an Irish last name and he talked about Russian disinformation and talked about the tragedy of dissaffected young men and boys. I've been trying to find his work online. It was a fabulous interview.
Scott Galloway?
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/tim-miller-scott-galloway-elon-musk-ai
Thanks a million.
I think Joe Biden should resign ASAP citing health issues. Kamala Harris then becomes Vice-President and is the standard bearer for the party and the nominee. She can prove to any doubters that she is up to the task while providing a coherent alternative to Trump. Our country is unfortunately very sexist and racist but putting her in the position gives her a head start to hopefully a victory in November
Let us not say "in the event of" a crisis requiring vigor and the ability to communicate and persuade. Such a crisis is already in the planning stages. It will probably begin during the election, ratchet up in the interim between election and inauguration, and culminate in another attempt to install Trump as president in defiance of the electorate. It will be the worst kind of crisis, a crisis of legitimacy. Biden will be in the awkward position of being both the commander-in-chief responsible for marshalling the government's response to disorder, and the president-elect interested in securing his place in a second term. Can you imagine him rising to this daunting public relations challenge? I cannot. His befuddled and ineffectual public appearances will just throw gasoline on the fire. That's what we have to look forward to if Biden WINS.
I don’t know which way to go re President Biden remaining as the Dem candidate. But I do know Kamala Harris can take the reins. Will our country elect her? I think the country is more sexist than racist so I am pessimistic. But I do appreciate your championing Harris.
Tim, I am 100% with you on this.
This is the core problem. "Tim Miller likes people who are 100% in agreement with him."
Does Tim Miller like anybody who gives him some food for thought? No. Tim Miller doesn't want to think critically, just wants his confirmation bias to be fed.
In fact, he has reached a point where he feels like, because he is increasingly popular, that can only mean that he is increasingly right, and therefore has to factor in critical information even less (since his popularity clearly shows he's getting wiser).
You're ridiculous Jeremie.
Jeremie you have no idea what you are talking about. I've been having email debates with Tim Miller for 3 years. He and I had no previous relationship. I emailed him out of the blue and he engaged. I have challenged him dozens of times and he always responds in a professional manner, even when I tell him I think he is 100% wrong.
Brad, please use your noggin: How can I evaluate Tim Miller's private behavior, since, by definition it is private — just like the exchanges of the Democrats he talks about, when he confronts what he considers the hypocritical nature of Democrats' take in public vs private.
I am not saying he is incapable of hearing disagreement, I am saying that, in this public sphere which is his comments' section, he chooses to "Like" only people who agree with him and make him feel good.
Although JVL has some blind spots, he makes an effort to "Like" a cocktail of comments, which include strong takes on all perspectives.
Public behavior is just as important as private behavior. If I am mistaken and there are in fact comments that disagree with Tim that he "likes" publicly, please point them out to me and I will stand corrected.
Otherwise, since you have productive exchanges with Tim that pushback on some of his arguments, why don't you have them in public where the rest of us can benefit from them as well?
I could email Tim too, but I consider personally that would be selfish of me.
I couldn't care less about your inability to evaluate Tim Miller's private behavior or what Tim Miller "likes". I just wanted the other readers to know that my experience with Tim indicates that you are wrong.
You're the one who brought up Tim's private behavior and I clarified his private behavior is not relevant, we are discussing his public views and behavior as a public figure.
Other readers are not paying attention to what I am saying about Tim, and you do not need to come to his defense, as endearing as that is.
What is this nonsense? This isn't a question of Tim Miller's ideas and whether they're correct or not, this is an issue about the President's ability to go on and beat Trump. Tim has made a strong case. Where's yours? Oh God, I've just encouraged another meandering diatribe.
I don’t understand the vociferous rejections of Tim’s points. The #1 goal is to keep Trump out of power, which is existential for our democracy. If Biden isn’t the best vehicle for that - seems to be the case - we have to explore all options.
My only takeaway here, and I’m probably repeating myself, can we make Tom Nichols a regular weekly guest? He’s always been my favorite friend of the show.
The comparison between Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Joe Biden is just... 🤯
One is a judiciary. Nominated by fiat, confirmes by partisans.
Another is a candidate for the executive. Voted by 50 states.
There are few parallels. RBG stepping down during Obama was not assured victory given Mitch McConnell could have blocked that seat as well. But it was a lot easier to game out the development, than a 50 state election.
These are completely different threat matrices. I am so shocked by the ambiant intellectual laziness
Justice Sotomayor should tender her resignation next week. Biden should nominate Kamala Harris for the open Supreme Court seat. Chuck Schumer should get her confirmed in six weeks. Biden should choose a governor such as Whitmer, Beshear, Pritzker, Shapiro, or Cooper to replace Harris as VP. Biden should then have a “health emergency” and resign from office. The new president chooses a VP and resumes the campaign. There I fixed it!
Yes, get rid of Kamala Harris and piss off the Democrats' loyal Black base. That should work.
First, Kamala Harris has never been particularly popular with Black Democrats. Second, just about any office would be a promotion from the vice presidency, and a Supreme Court seat is arguably better than the presidency itself, since it is a lifetime appointment. The only drawback to a SCOTUS appointment would be that you might have to socialize with the crazy wives of Justices Thomas and Alito.
Exactly!!! Well done!!! If we could single-handedly orchestrate the whole cast change, we'd be in autocratic China.
He may not be up for campaigning but he's certainly up for being President. Tim, if you require proof, just reread/listen to the Bulwark celebrating what this administration has accomplished.
If only the election were to turn on governance, we'd be in good shape.
As my investor advisor tells me, "past performance does not guarantee future results".
Well then we certainly don't want Trump.
I love me some Tom Nichols, #1 Bulwark podcast guest without a doubt.
Since the debate, I have received multiple fund-raising texts and emails from the Biden campaign (I already donate regularly). Nothing is ever said about the Elephant in the Room. I will work my a** off to get Biden (or any candidate opposing Trump) elected, but I don’t feel the campaign is respecting our intelligence. They seem to hope we will all forget what we watched for 90 very painful minutes. I am angry that this happened and that the whole debate strategy was Biden’s idea in the first place. We can no longer pretend there is no “age question.” I just want an acknowledgment that voters’ concerned have been heard, and some evidence that a serious discussion has taken place.
I hear often that Biden would need to exit the race voluntarily. However, cognitive decline prevents this type of thinking. I watched my Dad go through it. The more he lost his memory, the less willing he was to move into an assisted care facility.
I highly recommend David Frum's new article in The Atlantic, which makes the case for staying the course w/ Biden. He makes a lot of good points. Maybe Tim could have him back on the pod?
Beg to Differ had David Frum last week, and it showcased that The Bulwark really has a lot of trouble making room for the possibility that, no, replacing Biden might not be the best move (or conversation). It's surprising that they are having so much trouble with critical thinking.
Thanks, I'll have to watch it. I've limited what I watch / read since the debate, as I have to be careful about my mental health. I was concerned that pod would just be more of the same hair-on-fire panic - which I am doing quite well generating for myself!
I also didn't watch it because I figured it would be more of the let's-get-rid-of-Biden BS. I will watch it! Thanks.
I just watched part of it and now realize I misunderstood Jeremie's point: "it showcased that The Bulwark really has a lot of trouble making room for the possibility that, no, replacing Biden might not be the best move (or conversation)" - the point being "showcased" that they canNOT (make room).
Mona continued to insist Biden has to go, not even responding to Frum's arguments to the contrary - at least that I could tell. Seemed to me her mind is firmly made up and she wouldn't consider that she may be wrong. From something Damon said I got the impression Bill is in the "no he doesn't" camp, but I just couldn't watch any more.
I haven't been listening to the Bulwark because I knew they would want to get rid of Biden. IMO It is too late to start over with a new candidate. Kamala cannot win it and if not her then who? Let's focus on trashing the demented one instead of President Biden.
Ah - I saw Mona on the pod right after the debate and she was saying Biden had to leave which is why I didn't want to watch the Frum interview. I know all the Bulwark's arguments about this so I think I'll stay away. Thanks for letting me know.
What David said on the pod is what he said in his article, so I don't think you'd be missing anything worthwhile.
👍👍👍
I will continue to support Tim and the Bulwark as their mission is still and always has been to defeat DJT but I do wish Tim and others would stop making statements that during the debate Biden didn’t make any good points or push back. Tim asks us to read the transcript in his charge of Biden not making one good point or pushback to trump and I have done this and find several instances of a good response and assertion. Certainly not enough, I agree Tim, but it negates your blanket statement that none were made.
Yes, the Bulwark ignores the point that the debate would have been hard for anybody, simply because there was no way for a non-liar to win it. The format was not designed to be enlightening.
A counterfactual: What would have happened if as a society we had protested against CNN *before* the debate to reject the notion that someome who fomented a coup can be taken seriously? I don't know but those would be interesting things to talk about...
... instead of their pundit obsession.
No Bulwark for me. Their two premises are 1) polling is sooo accurate that Dems should take a monumental risk and 2) magic happens and we have a new somehow more viable candidate.
Not for me, I’m Joe/Kamala 100%.
Every time in the modern era where a party incumbent has faced a primary challenge or has stepped aside, the other party has won.
Every time.
Check out what Allan Lichtman says. He's a historian who has successfully predicted the outcome of nine of the last 10 presidential elections: https://nz.news.yahoo.com/calls-biden-replacement-foolhardy-nonsense-144343261.html
Thanks for the link. My only Q is, who are the actual democrats calling for Biden to step aside? Carville doesn’t count nor Frankin. Only Dems in actual leadership positions.
In addition, Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D-TX) has issued a statement as has Mike Quigley (D-IL). There could be more
Never heard of them until now.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/02/us/politics/biden-lapses.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
Because the New Putin Times is so trustworthy, Biden must go!
I am not agreeing with the effort to remove Biden. I think we need to see if he can repair the damage.
I think WE ALL need to be pulling on the oars.
Agreed. The Bulwark seems to now be anti-Trump and anti-Biden. Will Saletan has just released a comment saying Biden should step down.
It’s what the Bulwark has wanted for months and months.
Apparently he is stepping down!?
https://youtu.be/D8_sl_Jktgw?si=xVztW5quzKX1Bjli
Dude, it’s Keith Oberman and if that’s not clickbait, then I don’t know what clickbait is. “According to what Nancy Pelosi has said”.
The last thing I’ve heard her say was on Jen Saki and she said she supports “the Biden Harris ticket unequivocally”. When pressed, she said she’s not going to entertain any speculation. So what has she said after that, anything?
You're so right about the fact that primary challengers vs incumbent lead to defeat.
Hello Tim, I am a member of the Bulwark and a big fan of what you never Trumpers have achieved. However, I would like to express my dismay about your efforts to pull Biden off the ticket. Your intro to this pod, commenting about Biden frailities sounds very arrogant, similar to: "It's my way or the highway, viewers and listeners." Your viewpoint is perhaps being a bit distorted by the time you spend in your pundit/twitter silo . I think you have made a serious mistake rushing to judgment. What angers me about this move to pull Biden from the ticket is that *both* candidates did very badly during the debate. Trump lied constantly. He is mentally ill and, yes, he is a threat to democracy. Yes, Biden didn't do well and froze when he should have batted back the lies. The headlines weren't about Trump's lies. They focused on Biden's bad performance. I worry that the real threat to our democracy is your rush and the rush of other outlets to pull Biden off the ticket.
As historian and election pundit Alan Lichtman says: Pulling Biden off the ticket is "foolhardy nonsense.” Because you have to fill the news hole, be a talking head on MSNBC, you haven't given enough time for the dust to settle. Why don't we wait and see where the polls go over the next few weeks before you and the rest of the Bulwark team undermine Biden's candidacy. Why don't we start by having Biden's back, instead of stabbing him in the back?
Yes it's the ONLY way to win it! That is exactly what they are doing is undermining Biden's candidacy and will take no responsibility when they try to push some other candidate on the voters and Trump wins.
Hey there L, I see you started a Substack...
After your thoughtful take here, I would have been really interested in reading more about your thoughts.
Hey Jeremie - That is very kind of you to say. I am a writer but haven't quite managed to start posting on Substack. Do you have a column?
I do not have a column.
Part of the problem is Yeats: "The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."
Tim Miller, the Bulwark: They are the worst full of passionate integrity. Whatever they say, they are absolutely sure of it. They are good communicators because they make things simple, and turn complicated governance into a sports broadcast.
I am (like you) part of the "best [who] lack all conviction" — as an expert, I have too much humility, and it is hard to believe anybody would care about my perspective, because it is nuanced and complicated.
So I think it's interesting to see more of what you would write; and it seems like you would be interested in reading my thoughts.
I think maybe this is a sign that we should take the jump?
I am an academic, I have so much to say, but I have no clue where to start — so I am working on my own to make my industry (academia) better as it strives to fulfill its promise as class elevator in our society, one piece at a time.
May I ask: Why haven't you quite managed to start posting on Substack?
Sorry for the delay in responding. I accidentally archived your message and couldn't get it back! Gmail! I finally had the time today to go back to the original message. It sounds like you have an interesting career as an elevator operator for our class system. I like the way you describe that.
Yes, I would be interested in reading your thoughts. The more sane voices, the better, in these troubled times. And, yes, we should take the leap! I am a financial journalist and editor. My main roadblock to opinion-writing is time. I work a lot of hours as it is. Better time management? I carry no illusions about making a difference if I had a Substack column, but I suppose every voice helps. I regularly argue with the MAGAs but that is probably a futile effort. Howling into the wind? We face so many seemingly insurmountable, existential threats, but we have to keep fighting and speaking out. Our weapons/tools are words. The enemy is ignorance, arrogance, greed and hate. Maybe we need to use our words more effectively by reaching a larger audience. Nice to talk with you, Jeremie. Roll out your platform. I'll be reading.
Great show Tim. 100% in agreement with you. Tom Nichols is my favorite guest. Thanks!!
The counterfactual is so bleak in my eyes I just don't understand it. Trump comes out, does exactly the thing he did (which is lie about everything) and we still land on this commentary. It's exhausting to try to probe Trump's lies, it's exhausting not to, so we give up. I seriously want to know if Trump would have done the same performance as Biden, is there any chance a Ted Cruz or JD Vance would be talking the way Tim is?
Tim, I might be your biggest fan but you are just wrong. You spent years working as an operative for a homophobic, racist operation known as the GOP. For years you were able to downright lie to defend an institution that had long since abandoned you. Trump was the outcome of your project and now you spend your days trying to undo what you and others like you did. Does it really hurt that bad to lie about Biden? At the end of the day we are talking about his fucking age. The media narrative will win the day, can you be one small part that will gaslight us? After all the entire job you did was spin, you gas lit people for years the the Republican party wasn't racist or homophobic. You did it for years for them, you can gas light Dems for a couple minutes. Buckle up buttercup!
I don't think we have to "lie about Biden." He's accomplished a lot. He had a bad night. Let's see if he can clean up this mess.
Agreed!
Thank you for disagreeing so respectfully. I can identify easily w/ Tim's anxiety, and have panicked as well - which obviously isn't helpful. You make multiple good points; and as the days go by I find myself more and more needing to listen closely to folks like you.
And yes, due to many years of Repub efforts, we've been headed towards this moment for a long time.
Tim, I hope you are doing OK during this tough time. I am sure that you are just as scared about what is going to happen going forward as the rest of us here at the Bulwark community. I see your candor as coming from a place of caring for our country and despising Trump like all of us here. It's fucked up that it is up to doddering Old Man Biden to be the final Bulwark against the Trumpian Autocracy because many other institutions failed to hold him accountable.
I thought Roberts was an institutionalist. It is now obvious he cares for neither the legitimacy nor the legacy of the court.
As someone else remarked he's just a smoother version of Thomas and Alito.
Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that Rick Wilson and Keith Olbermann are the 3rd rail for some of you at "The Bulwark" too? So ... If you dare -- Watch Wilson and Olbermann have their say on YouTube. 😎
Wilson: (On fighting for Democracy - & how replacing Biden is a "lovely fantasy")
https://youtu.be/kBj_CO2raWU?si=w5PIJleEplgiOLhz
Olbermann: (On Journalistic Malpractice *specifically* by CNN)
https://www.youtube.com/live/0q0NNnn_kCE?si=7X_XDbXAzT-0llNU
Olbermann and Wilson might be providing the voices of reason.
Tim, love you, but as you are well aware there are only bad options and damn few of them--like, two. You know the reasons why it's either Biden or Harris heading the ticket in November. And if Harris is good enough, then she's also good enough to backstop the campaign starting right now as President-in-waiting. Not saying I or anyone else likes it, but that's the way it is. The only issue is 100,000 voters in 4-6 states and how best to get them to vote Democratic. I hate the gaslighting also, but nobody has to convince me how to vote. How do you best reach those 100,000? You're the political pro, you tell us.
And Jeez, how I wish it could be Pete. He would rip those MAGA MFs into bloody fragments and flush the residue. Maybe someday.
Expand the Court by 3 to represent the 12 Federal Circuits ASAP.
Let's get King Biden to pack the court! :-)
👊😅😉
Tom's assessment of the vaccine opposition strikes me as so spot on; i.e., 'I'll make you pay attention to me now.' These people are so childish and resentful of what they perceive as their lack of achievement - and I'm speaking specifically of people I know very well - that they really do vote out of spite. And while I don't know many evangelical/fundamentalist Christians all that well, from what I've seen, they just resent that they don't get 'extra credit' in life and that seems to be enough for them to do whatever is the latest way to stick it to the rest of us.
Tell me again why I should believe that Democratic politicians are any less capable of craven, self-serving behaviour than are their Republican counterparts?
For how long have we heard that - behind closed doors, off the record - Republican politicians admit that Trump is unfit for office (as well as the concomitant refrain that they're too afraid to say so publicly (for fear of damaging their careers)? Rather, they just keep circling the wagons and try to gaslight the public about whether their party's standard bearer is incapable of doing the job for another four years.
I'm coming to believe that the only difference between Republicans and Democrats on this score is that they're at different stages in the process of corrupting themselves and their respective parties. If the lying and denying continues unabated, moderate politicians with their consciences still largely intact flee - to be replaced by more zealous/ideological/insane versions. Eventually. reality becomes completely malleable and politics becomes no more than a profession of personal self-preservation, in which pursuing the public good becomes little more than a rhetorical device.
If the good guys here can't even rise above crushing partisan group think, one wonders if the US polity isn't already doomed...
False equivalence. Biden is a good person who has declined over the past four years due to age and the pressures of the presidency. After his terrible debate performance, Dems are having a fairly open public discussion about whether he should continue his campaign or withdraw from the race. Meanwhile Republicans continue to enthusiastically support Trump, who attempted a coup, incited an insurrection and only believes in elections when he wins.
Here's why I don't think I'm dabbling in a false equivalence fallacy:
1. My question is agnostic as to the upcoming election. I'm just suggesting that this is one of the unwelcome artifacts of partisan polarization (viz. the abandonment of objective reality as the basis of public discourse for a subjective (or, worse, merely rhetorical) approach.
2. The comparison I was making was founded on the premise that both parties have (almost) nominated candidates that are manifestly incapable of serving another four years in the White House. The fact that we can rightly argue about the day on which Biden's incapacity will achieve consensus [whereas Trump's incapacity would be manifest in day 1] doesn't detract from the premise.
3. If we agree that Trump is an existential threat to democracy in the USA (which I think we do), doesn't that behoove Biden and his advisors to shed the blinders and realize that the torch has to be thrown (to someone more capable) asap?
What you said in your original statement is that Dems are just as bad as Republicans, only not as far down the path of corruption. And I merely stated the facts of the situation to show why they aren't.
Republicans circle the wagons while Democrats often throw their candidates under the bus.
I love Tom Nichols, but he is oversimplifying the immunity opinion. There is not “functional immunity” for Trump but not for future Presidents. Ben will explain it better tomorrow, but I think there are plenty of charges that will not be dismissed for immunity. Jack Smith was a prosecutor at The Hague and he is used to dealing with official acts vs unofficial acts when prosecuting leaders of governments. He charged so that he could lose some charges and still win the prosecution.
My parents and mother-in-law were all born in 1940.
My mother-in-law passed this past March. Eighteen months earlier, she could hold a conversation just fine. At the end, she barely recognized her family.
My father was long the smartest man I knew. I ignored earlier signs of his cognitive decline, but it's now undeniable. Parkinson's disease appears to have been the primary culprit. Go back three years and he could have torn trump a new one.
My Mom doesn't have dementia, but stroke damage has seriously impaired her executive functions (especially manifest in word-finding and terrible short term memory). Two years ago, she was in her own home but she's been in a nursing home for over a year now and rarely leaves her bed.
Ageing is a terrible, terrible thing. I understand how Pres. Biden's family is unable/unwilling to see it - but the fact of his cognitive decline is now manifest. But the bottom line is that only a partisan could look past that debate performance. It doesn't just demonstrate that he's incapable of prosecuting a case against Trump. It calls into serious question whether he should be immediately removed under the process set out in the 25th Amendment.
Sorry you are going through such a hard time with your family....... Thanks for sharing your perspective.
And why the hell don't the Biden handlers listen to The Bulwark and The Lincoln Project?? Should have been listening and taking their advice years ago!
Lincoln Project has come out in support of biden,
Biden's response to the SCOTUS ruling is spot-on (https://youtu.be/6mGvLEFwz2A?si=cwzMbFGP9Xzgjpof).
The Administration, despite Biden's declared commitment, should - must! -make full and complete use of the new Presidential Immunity decision. He is the President and he can decide that his opponent, his predecessor, poses a real threat to the Constitution and government.
(Notice that I left out "the rule of law", please.)
Any and all communications Biden has with any federal officer (DoD, DoJ, whatever) cannot be used as evidence against his official actions, for which Biden now possesses presumptive immunity.
Let The False Prophet and the Republican National Convention and Republican members of Congress and Senators sue - civil suits, no less.
Yes, I 'd also like to see Biden leverage the new powers SCOTUS just gave him.
Don't you mean King Biden?
My two favorite people to listen to whose opinions I value the most. Will be hanging on your every word(s) from now until November. (yes, of course after that too!)
I thought I had read somewhere that in a different part of the Hur report he had commented positively on Biden's recall and acuity.
I am a normal voter and I want him to stay....does that mean I am bad or doing something bad? This is what is bothering me.
You're not alone
I'm not hearing that attitude in the podcast, though, Angie. I heard mostly criticism of the campaign and criticism of excuses that are not helping Biden face this situation down. And if Biden can't get out there, if his campaign is afraid to push him out into the public eye...I don't even want to think about what that means. I want Joe to be able to hang in there. I'm not 100% convinced that he can, though. Its a tough moment. I haven't slept well for days.
Thanks MaryAnn...I am having trouble sleeping too, and crying more easier than usual...but, the politics isn't the only thing going on in my life either...Wednesday someone hijacked my debit card and that has been a nightmare, and yesterday my BFF from HS died, and work is pretty stressful too
I am usually pretty resilient...just too much at once
Sorry for your loss, Angie. Sometimes it's hard to handle the overload.
I'm sorry, Angie. Even one of those things is too many. Hang in there.
Thank you ,I am doing my best
Wow. DNC Koolaid on aisle 12. if you actually believe that Bidens debate performance was somehow negatively engineered...ugh.
Clean up at aisle 3!
No I just can’t square the decision to push an early debate while knowing Biden was declining. It doesn’t make sense to me.
They thought they could change the stagnant narrative. They just never figured that Biden would b become a deer in the headlights.
I keep coming back to this: if Biden was on such a rapid decline, why would his staff seek out an early debate? No evidence so far that they are incompetent b/c he’s had a largely successful presidency. This suggests to me that Biden’s abysmal performance was more of a blip than a new reality. He perked up later that day and the next day. It just doesn’t make sense otherwise.
Also, there is nothing like a time constraint to hinder we stutterers.
He apparently was on cold medicine. He also had a heavy schedule that day. I think that was the mistake.
A couple of things have be seriously questioning the competence of Biden's staff right now. One is the whole debate debacle; it's good to have it out there, really, but only if it results in a change of course. The other is how they've handled Harris. Her reputation has suffered immensely during her VP tenure due to the assignments she's been given and off the record comments by insiders, probably emanating from Biden's inner circle, that she just doesn't have the chops. But she went out there Thursday night and proved herself very capable in attempting to clean up her boss's disaster. I think they've kind of sabotaged her.
In his written post today, Tim posted the video of Biden at the Hollywood fundraiser that happened two weeks earlier. Biden didn't look good then (I attended it via livestram). It almost seemed as if Obama was finishing his sentences for him. I found it troubling but wrote it off at the time to jet lag. The second time I couldn't.
So much for Biden being jacked up on caffeine.
Sometime in 1992 the special prosecutor for the Iran Contra affair (I think his name was Walsh) finally got around to interviewing Reagan. Reagan had yet to announce his Alzheimer’s, but he was in the early stages of the disease and couldn’t remember a lot of the basic facts much less the details. A month or so later Reagan delivered a stemwinder of a speech at the Republican nominating convention. It was so impressive Walsh thought he had been played. He wasn’t. While much of the speech may have even been written by Reagan himself in a lucid moment, he read it from a teleprompter and his years of experience as an actor, spokesman and politician kicked in for one last hurrah. Biden doesn’t have dementia or senility. I’m not a doctor but I deal with elderly people every day, and you learn to discern mental impairment from just old age. The ability to read from a script in front of a friendly audience is the last skill to go. That’s what Biden needs to do from here on out to the election. One 15 to 20 minute speech a day with a telemprompter. No press conferences, no interviews and no ad lib speeches. The liberal media will cover for him and Trump will become the story and self destruct. In other words a replay of the 2020 campaign. It’s not a great strategy but it’s the only one that stands a chance.
Deep breaths. There's only one thing to do, and that's #VoteBlueNoMatterWho. Stop splitting people, and remind them of the existential threat to democracy. HINT: It's not Biden's stutter, or his raspy voice, or that he had a bad night at the debates.
As much as Trump, the press is an enormous threat to democracy right now. I canceled by NYT subscription today over their insistence that Biden step down, without having called on Trump to do so despite him being a felon and an insurrectionist.
I signed onto the Bulwark because despite the fact it leans right it seems to have a better reputation and track record in recent times than either the NYT or WaPo.
I am leaning toward canceling my NYT sub as well. I'm not so happy about Bulwark's rush to judgment about Biden. However, I'll hang on to my sub for the time being.
I canceled NYT and WaPo, then held on when both offered slashed subscription price for another year.
Sounds like a plan!
The Supreme Court just eviscerated a founding principle of this country, that we are not ruled by a privileged class or by kings, and that no one is above the law. On this day, July 1, 2024, the Supreme Court fundamentally changed the United States and rewrote the foundational code of our system of self-government. It is a catastrophic day in American history.
Stay the course brother…
You go, Tim. Devote your time to saving America. Not being sarcastic here; this is a crises. We need you and Sarah and the rest to use your time to the highest purpose.
Now if Biden could give them a modicum of help.
Yep. I need to determine if I can email Biden and/or Jill. I’m under the impression that they think dems are rallying. Not true in my circles. Biden needs to know.
They need to listen to Sarah,Tim and Bill. I read where he actually had Never Trumpers like Sarah, Bill and Mike Murphy to The White House about two weeks ago. Hope they made some influence. Bull dog Sarah is pretty persuasive. We know that.
Just sent this to the WH: Dear Mr. President, I am a diehard Dem. I voted for you. I am grateful to you for what you have done as President. Know, though, that the right thing to do is to release your delegates in favor of someone else. I respectfully request that you do not place me in the position of having to vote for someone whose capacity is degraded. There are options for our party and the county. This is only a binary choice if you make it so.
I endorse this message!
Send one too. It can’t hurt.
I try my best!
I keep going back to why would Biden’s people request an early debate if he was declining? And then later in the night at Waffle House he seemed to perk up and was much more energetic the next day. It doesn’t make sense. His staff have been competent so far. all this suggests to me that Biden’s abysmal performance was due to him feeling sick rather than a “steady decline” that had been going on for months. If he was declining, it would have been so easy to refuse to debate Trump. This is what I keep coming back to.
He had a cold and a big schedule that day. Sometimes the simple explanation is the answer.
Could be. I agree with Tim that now he needs to do a lot more unscripted stuff —that would help course correct. If he doesn’t I think that’s very telling and damaging.
I agree. He needs to get out there. A press conference would help.
You sometimes see this with older people. I remembered today seeing this with Reagan the last time I saw him speak in person (April '93 I think.) When he was making his speech he was fine, but after he stepped away from the podium it was a different story. Because he was an actor I always likened it to being on-stage and off-stage.
This is a combination of the pundit class wanting eyeballs, somebody paying off the NYT editorial board, and the usual Democratic panic.
The biggest thing that stands between us and winning in November is panicky Dems - same as usual.
My wet dream is Dark Brandon labeling the RNC a terrorist organization, all of it's members and donors are immediately detained, questioned, assets liquidated, etc.
He dissolves the SCOTUS entirely, using the excuse of uncertainty until after the election, which he and the DNC are absolutely rigging.
Whitmer/Shapiro (in either order): winning ticket? If they have MI and PA locked in (which they won in double digits), it’s pretty much the election, no? No need for GA, AZ, NV… Thoughts?
Are you kidding? Pull Harris off the ticket? The Dems would lose the Black vote, probably for a generation.
2028.
And send Kamala to SCOTUS immediately where she might whip the A-holes into shape
Ok, yes, he failed big time, I never said he didn't...the difference is, I am not holding it against him or trying to get him to quit.
I don't mind the converstaions per se ( and I am not mad at you Tim, I am scared and wasn't prepared for the one place I feel safe and as if I belonged to suddenly go somewhere I didn't want to go). What I don't like is the lecturing and yelling at me because I think he can turn this around, and I don't believe any of the options, ( especially Kamala and more progressive people aren't going to help with the non Dems we need) are good.
I also think the coming chaos if they do this, is worse than what happened
As historian Allan Lichtman says: "Republicans have no principles. Democrats have no spine.” Let's add never-Trumpers to that sentence.
Hmmm. Republicans also lack spine.
You're 100% right. Even if it's only the two of us, you're absolutely right. Except .... he really didn't do *that* badly when you watch it, and listen carefully to his responses for the full hour and a half instead of the medicare flub on infinite repeat.
Three months ago he kicked butt at the SOTU. The day after the debate he was on fire in NC.
The best we can do right now is #VoteBlueNoMatterWho and remind people that when Trump asked in 2016, "What have you got to lose?" we now know the answer to that question: democracy.
It’s not just the two of you, there are plenty of intelligent, serious, people who understand that Biden remains our best (only) chance and are willing to get to work to ensure his victory in November. See the takes from people like Rick Wilson, Reed Galen, Aaron Rupar, Allan Lichtman, etc.
There is no denying there were terrible moments in the debate but the reaction as a whole is overblown. But understandable. All of us here are scared out of our minds but in these types of moments, it’s always the cooler heads that prevail. It’s analogous to what happens in a stock market crash where the masses panic and start making terrible decisions out of fear.
Biden can still win but we all need to start doing a better job prosecuting the case against Trump and promoting all the good that has come out of the first four years of the Biden administration. If he didn’t have a record to run on, my take wouldn’t be all that different from the pundit class, but he does.
We need to do better in supporting our candidate. Being honest about Biden’s terrible performance is healthy but maybe redirect some of that frustration into convincing 100,000 voters in a few swing states that voting for Trump will have dire consequences for their lives and the future of the country. I have supported the Bulwark but it’s not reaching those people.
For me, all of this focus on Biden dropping out is just a distraction and is further dividing the pro-democracy forces. If the pundits were looking at this clear eyed, they’d look at history and realize pretty quickly that switching candidates now would have disastrous consequences.
My final thought on the left acting like MAGA takes is maybe some of that is ok? That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be critical of our side, especially if they are breaking laws, inciting coups against the country, and sexually assaulting women, but that doesn’t appear to be the case here. Our crime appears to be that our candidate is really effing old but is a decent and good man who has done an incredible job running the country in the face of serious adversity and a nonstop assault on the rule of law and our sanity. If being willing to overlook his age to save our democracy and way of life makes us like the MAGA cult, maybe I’m willing to put our civility on the back burner and fight like hell to beat them. They are winning because they remain united no matter how terrible their candidate becomes, maybe it’s time we show some level of unity in supporting ours?
Thanks for your comments. I agree we need to be critical of our side. I think we don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water (the biden out with the bath water?) Sorry - bad joke.
Thanks for your post. It says a lot of what I think. Further, I am deeply disappointed in the Bulwark’s rush to judgement even as I get the panic to do so. Democrats, imo function differently than republicans, at least the ones I know/grew up with. Democrats I am familiar with are more about consensus and are more prone angst over decisions. Republicans I knew were more about directing and administering what they think is right. I’m too upset right now to parse this more eloquently and clearly but those are differences I have noted. I also see Tim functioning as a campaign director-which I think makes a weird sort of sense, even while being wildly inappropriate.
The Bulwark - to me, now feels very authoritarian in dispensing their opinions. I don’t respond to that kind of information or approach.
I might have agreed with the positions expressed on the Bulwark over the past few days had it been presented as an invitation. I did not receive it that way.
I want answers regarding Biden’s health like others here. The debate was a wake up call for me in terms of expanding where I am looking elsewhere as well, whereas I might have previously looked here first. That feels healthier to me.
I agree with your take on the Bulwark’s arrogance around the age discussion. So quick to attack anybody who is exhausted by their non-stop stories about Biden’s age as somehow being delusional or putting our heads in the sand. They never consider that their dreams of replacing Biden may actually be what’s delusional, counterproductive, and most likely the one scenario that will guarantee a Trump victory. They also seem unable to grasp the concept that voters may be more concerned with somebody being old when all they hear is the media constantly making it a story. If we’re serious about saving our democracy, then maybe we could focus some of that energy on getting out the word on why Biden is by far the best choice for the country (shouldn’t even be a contest). This doesn’t require outlets to churn out a bunch of propaganda, just report facts and let the voters make informed decisions based on those facts.
The problem I have had with The Bulwark is that while they are anti-Trump/pro-Democracy, they are not pro-Biden. To win this fight, we all need to be able to make the case for Biden and you really only ever hear JVL doing that with Tim Miller on occasion saying he’s been an ok President. I appreciate their reporting on all of the terrible things coming from the right but there are almost never any pro-Biden stories despite an incredible record to run on. Then they complain that nobody in their focus groups knows what Biden has accomplished in his first term and all they talk about is his age. Weird how that works. I’m not implying that anybody in those focus groups is going to be reading the Bulwark but this is a universal problem across all mainstream media.
More and more I find the whole outlet to be a waste of time and counterproductive to where we need to be in November. Our mission in the next 4 months is to convince a handful of voters in a few states that being old is better than being a fascist, rapist, criminal, lying, traitor who wants to destroy our constitutional republic. That really shouldn’t be so hard but our media will make sure it’s the fight of our lives.
Time to align with the realists who know Biden will be the candidate and are hard at work on getting him re-elected, not the pundit class spending all of their time trying to tear him down in what will prove to be an unproductive and potentially catastrophic waste of time.
Agree. I’m a paid subscriber until my subscription runs out. I decided not to renew and turned off the subscription. Sadly it looks like they have been effective. Dems and apparently never trumpers like the Bulwark staff are their own worst enemies as more people are calling for Biden to step aside. For me they wanted to blow up a big story and this is the one they chose. They could have been positive change makers but they are all too much like the people they tirade against.
Well said - Their positions seem arrogant - as if they have all the answers. None of us have the answers. Let's see if Biden can pull himself out of this mess. He's done it before.
Thanks Larry...I agree
I challenge Will Saletan to find a pony in this mess.
I think your opinion that people are putting heads in the sand. That’s ridiculous. You are experiencing existential fear. Blaming Biden debate performance is just wrong. You guys are not thinking rationally.
No one focuses on Trump's firehose of lies during the debate. Only Biden's faltering performance.
It's like the Bernie Bros are back...
Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo has a piece up today. He is saying that replacing Joe Biden would have a negative impact 10 to 20 times worse than the failed debate. I'm throwing that out there because I respect Marshall a lot, as I do Tim and the whole Bulwark crew. I honestly don't know what should happen. Let's stay civil- I'm angry that Tim was dumped on earlier. We need each other.
Allan Lichtman, the historian who has predicted the outcomes of 9 of the last 10 elections, says it would be a disaster.
I heard that as well - and just to be clear, Lichtman is saying that the disaster would be replacing Biden. I do agree with that, but at the same time (such a complicated issue and nobody REALLY knows what would happen), it might be possible that replacing him will become the only choice. I sure hope not.
Yes, replacing him would be a disaster. The way I look at it is that if Harris is good enough to replace him on the ticket (with a new VP), she is good enough to step in if Biden has a health event that causes him to step down after he's elected. Let's keep the status quo and work like hell to get Biden/Harris reelected.
To anyone and everyone who is going after Tim M or any of the other Bulwark crew I say...are you f'ing kidding me? Did you watch the debate? Can you honestly say that the guy wearing the blue tie in that debate could possibly be president for four more years. ( I also ask, would you leave your 4 year old grandson with him as the kids caretaker?) Give me a break. And to those of you dropping out, what are you going to do. hide in your closet or watch Seinfeld repeats for 7 months. Good grief.
I am upset with the Bulwark and others for not taking a few days to assess the situation. There were instant calls for Biden to end his candidancy.
Yeah, we can get mindless instant takes anywhere. I expect better from The Bulwark.
Yes, I am. I saw him three months ago in SOTU. I saw him the day after in NC.
Never underestimate the Goebbels-esque power of this lie having been repeated for four years about Biden's cognitive ability.
Also look up the "Gish gallop" (trump's native tongue), and how it's used to good effect with both people armed with facts, and especially those with facts who stutter.
Then go back and rewatch the debate. It's on youtube. Listen to the answers to the questions, as opposed to Trump's bluster. Biden's mental acuity is just fine. And if you say "He memorized all those answers," I'm going to remind you that people with cognitive decline can't memorize an hour and a half of answers.
"C'mon, man ..." as they say.
Thanks Tim for having the courage to say out loud what we are all thinking! I completely agree with you that this is a crisis we Americans have never encountered before. Personally I am terrified that the Dems (including me) will wake up the day after the election with a Trump win and regret not having made different strategic choices. It will be too late! I am in total agreement with Sarah when she talks about her job being to defeat Trump. Crossing our fingers and burying our heads in the sand hoping for the best is nuts!! I can't help but think of the great existential masterpiece by Jean-Paul Sartre, No Exit, in which hell is other people. Yikes! Please keep on speaking for us!
Tim, 100% with your view.
The Democratic activist base does not like Biden, so the risk/return of Biden dropping out seems to be a good bet.
It would seem any of the governors, in my opinion, minus Newsom, would get a huge surge and would be loved by the double haters and that Trump would be in big trouble. Maybe that’s just wishful thinking.
It's true the activist base is having its moment of panic. But there's a reason they call them "The Squad" and not "The Majority." They are waaaaaay disproportionately noisy.
We saw this in 2016 with HRC and Sanders. He did well in the caucus states (because a few noisy people make a dent), but he failed to deliver in the primary states - because despite all the noise from the Bernie Bros there were simply many fewer of them than preferred Hillary Clinton.
It's also wise to remember that much of the sabotaging of 2016 was done not by Trump, but by Sanders. He railed against the superdelegates, despite the fact the superdelegates had NEVER tipped a primary for one candidate or the other. He insisted it was corrupt (I would have said paternalistic), and that it should be "the choice of the people." Until he wasn't. Then he ran to the superdelegates and said, "you should choose me." "But you said we should choose the one who gets the most votes, Bernie." "Yes, but I'm a better candidate."
The amount of damage Sanders did to Democratic unity was incalculable, as those resentments ran till election day. But more than that, Sanders laid the groundwork for Trump four years later to insist that election corruption was all around. Had Sanders held strong about faith in the elections process, it would have been for Trump to get that balloon off the ground on his own.
I agree with you. Republicans circle the wagons around their candidates. We just throw our candidates under the bus.
I think you are basically right in what you say, except that the chaos and divisivness associated with a rush to find a replacement would do more harm than good, in the opinion of many.
Tim, can you write tomorrow’s Morning Shots on the inaccurate overuse of the term “Gaslighting?”
Thank you Tim and Bulwark fam for the courage to call it like you see it. I’m a lifelong Dem in a deeply red state, my husband is pretty apolitical but in recent years aghast at Trump and we both saw the same thing last week. Slavish devotion is what they do in Magaville. Who would have imagined a tier two celeb reality television host could become president and co-opt a party he never really believed in? That lesson should lead the rest of us to being a little more imaginative about our side’s options and choices. I think increasingly Americans view politics as a tv show. The Sorkin cuts might not be the insults they are intended to be.
Again, Rick Wilson with Dean Obeidalla....
Wilson: (On fighting for Democracy - & how replacing Biden is a "lovely fantasy") 😎
https://youtu.be/kBj_CO2raWU?si=w5PIJleEplgiOLhz
All six of those justices should be impeached and removed for not protecting and defending the Constitution. We are being attacked by literal Nazis. Fucking fight back or it's over.
It might already be over. Until we can get this ruling overturned, we are entirely dependent upon the honesty and integrity of the occupant of the Oval Office. Biden says he won't violate that. I believe him.
But even if Biden wins, in four more years there will be another election. And even if Trump is no longer in the picture, either, we will still be incredibly vulnerable.
And overturning such a ruling won't be easy. We need another president to commit crimes, and another court that if they're honest and good people would be much more likely to honor stare decisis and precedent. It is far more likely a bad president could irreparably damage us further than the decision will get overturned without grievous harm coming to the nation.
I don't know, "Good King Biden" has a nice ring to it.
It is by no means certain and in fact is more unlikely as not that there will be another election in four years. Oh, there will be a formal public circus performance, votes cast and tabulated and announced, but not an election in the sense that the outcome would be permitted to be other than as the regime arranges. (We must be precise about terms from now on: regime, not administration).
The Court is illegitimate. We should undo all of their rulings. Trump is a convicted felon. All of his acts as president are null and void. Dark Brandon go time.
The Democrats need some courage. They need to unseat the sitting president, declare the supreme court illegitimate, and have an open convention. I'm a state delegate for Harris County but I would pledge for Gavin Newsom tomorrow.
How about the courage to stick with Biden?
Thanks for the warning. I listened anyway. For the record:
1. I agree that Biden and campaign need to say do something declarative;
2. Go ahead and keep talking about this, but try to say something new;
3. I didn't get mad at Bill and Charlie for saying Biden was old. I got mad when they kept saying it over and over again;
4. I guess for that reason, I think Biden should step down, since if he doesn't the next time he has some spittle on his lip, this will start again;
5. Part of the reason I turn off from this conversation is that at the same time you're saying Harris is the only choice, Sarah is saying it absolutely cannot be her;
6. And it is sometimes hard for me to process opinions about this from people like Sarah, Mona, etc. where the best they could say about Biden was that he was 'fine'. I'm going to gotell my wife she looks fine now and see how that goes.
7. It's not altogether clear all the time if your are insulting the politicos out there, or your listeners. Or both;
8. And please don't question the degree to which I think this is existential. But if you insist, back at you. Go ahead and out the people saying shit privately about Biden. I mean if it's important, right?
Sorry. I really do love you guys. But ranters gotta rant, right?
Yes!! And the head-in-the-sand approach the campaign is NOT working. They need to shake things up yesterday.
Please ask Mr. Wittes about packing the Supreme Court. Adding four more justices seems to be the only possible remedy to the disaster that is the Roberts court.
That's what I'm thinking should happen now and fast. Add two for the stolen seats and four more to make an odd number, 15. Adding only four would give us 13. We wouldn't want that..
Good podcast. Best Tom moment: reference to the great old TV show "The Outer Limits." Worst Tom moment: waxing poetic on being a college student in the 80's and cheering on Reagan with his college buddies-I tasted a little vomit during that part.
any comments on dana and Jake letting Trump lies spew
Great work. We can’t deny the evidence. It was all there for all of us with elderly relatives to see and all the denial is scary. As a person with a highly educated and competent father and a highly educated and competent father-in-law who went through dementia-related cognitive decline before their deaths at 90 (in 2022) and 89 (in 2023), I could see many of the signs from both of them. What I didn’t know before my relatives final years is that aging with dementia for intelectually active people presents differently and is easier to hide. My father, a retired journalist, was mostly his usual self if he was healthy and from 9 to 5. But if he was sick or it was late, he just couldn’t function. His balance and mobility was highly affected and it was the first clue that something wasn’t right. He received a diagnosis four years before passing, got to a certain point better with the help of good geriatric therapies (in an European country were that is the standard treatment), and was still partially functional, reading and rating manuscripts for his publisher and writing a weekly column at the time of his passing (from other health issues). My father-in-law started with symptoms that affected his speech (volume, speed rate, and recalling of words), computer and organizational skills (he also had mobility issues, but were unrelated to his cognitive decline) about 7 years before his passing. A retired banker who became a public education volunteer, successfully leading two bond issue campaigns for his local school district, he struggled with fear of dementia and refused any attempt by his family to visit a neurologist for diagnosis. He gradually got worse and increasingly had issues that were obvious to his family but that he denied were happening.
With all of that, he was still his previous charming self in public for a few hours a day, fooling people around him in his philanthropic work, his family doctor who refused the calls from his family to refer him to a neurologist, and his car insurance lawyer and the judge during trial for an accident that was obviously his fault (he had 3 accidents in the last five years of life). During those seven years he could argue politics and make the case for or against any investment. He finally gave up the direct managing of his retirement investments a couple of years before his passing at the urging of his children. He deteriorated very rapidly in a couple of months, being unable to eat, and the doctors that treated him at the end and finally gave him a diagnosis marvelled of how highly functional he had been in public just 3 months before for a person at a such advanced level of dementia. These two experiences had been on my mind since Thrusday.
Biden had a bad/terrible debate. The SCOTUS says the President has immunity for “official acts” Dumpster Donnie is now President and removes any inconvenient constitutional provisions ships political enemies to Guantanamo all “official acts”
So what do the polls show now?
My feeling is keep Joe, punch up VP Harris’ vitality and unleash the cabinet Secretary’s and any ex-official s from the previous administration to say the convicted felon is dangerous and an end to The Republic.
Re" Kamala
Where the Dem party totally screwed the pooch was in not giving her the SCOTUS position.
She'd have another 20+ years on the Bench and Uncle Joe could have picked his successor for this election year.
Ouch.
Tim, as a 75 yo fan girl, keep screaming! I of course was going to vote for Biden, but since 2022 have been asking to see the Democratic youth (anyone less than 70). I was not in favor of him running again, and yes, although I am well into my elder years, you can imagine I watched both my parents through their last years. Both were better mentally than he, and I wouldn’t want them to be president. Hell, I shouldn’t be president. There are lot of other things to do and ways to contribute. I am a retired architect helping a friend with construction of a home in Indonesia. So although I was unable to watch in its entirety, the vomit emojis exploded on my phone. Seemed weirdly childish, but for your non scientific focus group, not one person I heard from felt secure with a path forward. Keep pushing, at least let’s enter this fight with our eyes open!
Scream on!
Thank you, Tim, for being one of the few that is willing to approach this as the urgent crisis it is. The blasé confidence with which others (at least publicly) are treating this situation is baffling, the vitriol you've received is disgusting, and your thoughtful, principled, passionate discussion of where we are is so appreciated. I'd be going crazy without it (though in fairness, I might be going crazy anyway).
I understand if elected officials feel they need to circle the wagons, but can we at least demand that they say something like "It was a terrible night, but it was an aberration. I have full confidence in Joe Biden's fitness. I expect he'll prove his competence in the next week through a [tough interview, press conference, town hall, etc.]." There has to be some recognition that this is an absolute f***ing crisis and the party, the campaign, the Biden team - they all owe it to us and to the country to address it rather than ignore it. The current path is insanity!
Project 2025 is ready to roll out on Day One when King Donald 1st is coronated. From the day that Mitch McConnell blocked President Obama's Supreme Court pick, and the rush to get Amy Coney Barrett seated, to the rulings of this radical court--especially the Chevron case, Presidential Immunity, and the Dobbs decision (displaying their resolve to overturn decades of legal precedent), the legal framework for their ultimate plan is in place. Will we recognize this country a year from now? When I hear people say they "don't feel motivated to vote", pray tell what would it take?
270, Tom. It's 270, not 271. Bigger fish to fry I know of the existential kind, but just say'n - it's 270.
Not a point
Thank you for being here this week and ongoing to the election. It was a hard weekend and I need your voice Tim so I know I am not crazy about the debate.
Nichols nailed it. The trump “rock” will not get bigger. It just won’t. What I think should be done - in addition to the public reconfiguration/come to Jesus meeting by the Biden campaign you want to happen - is for all that money to finally do some good to highlight the horrific hellscape of lies that trump released. Aren’t there any creative minds working on some acid ads against trump that trump is already using against Biden? At least fill the fing void!!!!
If Biden thinks he can laugh at us while we are consumed with rage at him for refusing to step down, I’ve got an idea for how to get his attention.
We can tell him that until he steps aside, each day we are going to enlist another group to rescind their support for Biden, even switching to Kennedy temporarily if needed, including unions, racial groups, LBGT groups, trial lawyers, teachers, etc.
That will wipe the arrogant smile off Biden’s face. We need some smart, normal candidates who by comparison to Trump will look like geniuses, such as the governors of Colorado, Pennsylvania, and Michigan to start.
And to win over Reagan/Thatcherite ex-Republicans, announce Liz Cheney either for VP or something big like Secretary of State.
Seriously?
What makes you think that
I have seen no evidence of that
You’ve got to be kidding
You’ve got to be kidding
This comment demonstrates is why this debate is bad for the campaign to defeat trump.
I'm listening to this podcast while working at home. I needed to wrap up one simple calculation and I just couldn't concentrate enough to do it. I had to turn it off and I'll wrap up later. I agree with everything being said...too much. All Biden had to do was not appear old and diminished and he would have been fine and instead he plays right into every doddering stereotype that was out there. It would have been like if Vlad the Impaler was debating someone and his advisors said look if you don't impale someone on stage you'll come across as fairly reasonable and he goes ahead and does it anyway. Biden literally had one job and he failed. Better to call in sick than put in a performance like that.
Thanks for the bullshit free zone! I appreciate it since it’s harder and harder to find.
Pundits and Podcasters, it's not about you – it's about a few states and the votes of a limited number of people that will decide the election. Asking your circle what they thought of the debate shit–show may feel validating since none of your copious advise to Biden was followed, but did you ask if it changed votes? Do we know the impact of this proported armageddon in swing states with voters in play? No, we do not – but obsessed Pundits and Podcasters are so very eager to unleash pure chaos because they cannot think of anything else to do other than take credit for knowing "this" was going happen when they said "X" way back in "Y". I thought facts and data mattered – let's go get some before your hurt feelings and self–righteous indignation drive this bus off a cliff.
I feel like these discussions are much better than what was coming out on Friday and some of the weekend. I don't fully agree with everything but we're being more realistic. I felt most of the commentary were arbitrary attacks on anyone who didn't agree with the idea of Biden stepping down instead of agreeing the debate was an issue but what do we do next.
And I do think he needs to never listen to whoever prepped him again.
I always appreciate your analysis. Thanks. Can you and your like minded peers keep asking for a press conference per the debate melt down and if you keep getting no, isn't that a story we plebs should know about? I mean a press conference.....is that such a big ask considering, you know the existential threat to democracy and all that stuff? A presser, please......
I hate the vile attacks you endured over the weekend Tim. We can disagree without being racist and homophobic.
In the spirit of preserving my mental health, I take frequent breaks from politics. Which, in this case, I am very glad I did. I am unaware of the attacks on Tim - I’d have been insanely rage-filled with MomRage. Wow, I don’t think I even want to know what happened.
MomRage is the real deal. I've seen it.
Here's how you can tell this is punditry vs news: The Supreme Court has completely changed the relationship of the executive branch and the others, with both the Chevron deference repeal and the president-as-kings ruling. There's hours and hours of discussion to be had on this, but they pick the horse race.
Here's how you spot the monoculture: This podcast starts with an advertisement for Pod Save America, which the other braintrust that is pushing the "Biden should resign" line
Here's how you spot lack of critical thinking: At a moment like this, you want an expert like Dr.Ruth Ben Ghiat, who can comment intelligently on authoritarianism. Tim knows her, and was with her with Nicole Wallace when Dr. ben Ghiat mentioned the counterfactuals, but instead of digging in, Tim and others are doubling down on their narrative.
I wish the best for the Bulwark, but it requires calling out the subpar editorial line.
I addressed RBG's ludicrous gish galloping argument in my column today. I appreciate her view on combating authoritarianism that is different than debate analysis. As discussed on today's show tomorrow we will be doing SCOTUS. Cheers.
I haven't seen you mention Ruth Ben-Ghiat in any column. Which one are you talking about?
It's ironic that you invite a guest who wrote the "Death of Expertise" and you are dismissing expertise yourself.
Tim, thanks for the response. What's so hard to see is how you fault yourself for not being humble enough as a Republican operative — that you should hace known better, etc.
But now you're doing the same mistake: You have hubris and you don't have intellectual humility.
The smarter you are, the less you can just trumpet certainty after certainty after certainty. Go see the Dunning-Kruger paradox.
Ruth has lots of expertise! Not in how to prep someone for a debate. I am the expert on that! This would be like someone commenting in her substack post about Mussolini and telling them she should listen to my tweets instead.
The missing link between Mussolini and Trump is technology — social media.
If you wanted to meet this moment, you'd become friends with an expert on authoritarianism and an expert on social media, rather than assume you can just pundit this way through.
In what way are you an expert on that? Have you ever worked for a candidate that won anything? Besides participating in the collective degradation of the GOP, how has your "expertise" served our polity?
Is it easier to chide a presidential candidate than a news organization and/or ecosystem? Yes. Unfortunately that's what we need.
Yes! I have! And I’ve prepped people for debates against Donald Trump. What happened last week had nothing to do with trumps fascistic tactics. Sorry
Here's what I'd like you to do, if you're not full of shit.
create a podcast in which:
- you splice out all of Biden's answers
- replace them with Tim Miller answers
Show us how it's done!
Ruth Ben-Ghiat and I believe there's no way the format could support an enlightening debate, and that Trump was going to benefit from it just because of the framing of the news.
You seem to think there was a way for this debate to be a killer — just not the way Joe Biden did it.
I think you can only criticize, and you would in any circumstance. But maybe I'm wrong, and you actually discern how the debate could have been better.
Um, POTUS nominates SCOTUS. Put Trump in office again and Thomas and Alito will run for the hills during Trump's first year of office and Trump will nominate two 28 year old fascist law school graduates to replace them and his five nominees court will rule the judiciary for the rest of my life. Yeah, this Biden stuff matters big time, especially relative to the future of the court. Unfortunately these decisions aren't going away any time soon but November 5th will be here in a flash. Great job, Tim. Your priorities are spot on!
I'm willing to bet $50 that neither Clarence Thomas, nor Samuel Alito, will ever retire.
You don't understand that they are narcissists, not partisans. The job is a badge of honor, has nothing to do with duty.
They couldn't care less about the legacy of the court, as long as they are powerful for as long as possible.
They would never sacrifice time as a powerful for some ideological sake.
Ok. Fair enough. We disagree. Cheers
(A comment on JVL’s page today) “Never admired Kamala in the past but now think she's the right choice if Biden steps down. She's had 3 1/2 years to absorb how the system works, she will have Biden's blessing and she will have access to the campaign war chest. Most important, in a short campaign she won't be doing public dissections of complex issues, her weak point. She will essentially be an experienced prosecutor prosecuting the case against Donald Trump while laying out an optimistic picture of great advances for the American public. Sure, we have a great "bench" but none have been vetted nationally and none is a generational political talent. I say Harris.”
And another commentator said: “Kamala and Pete.”
Tom Nichols is at The Daily Beast. It was just taken over by a couple of kooks who want to put out lurid stories and turn the Beast into a National Enquirer. Staff is leaving.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/style/media/2024/06/27/daily-beast-turmoil-coles-sherwood/
To be fair, a big reason they wanted an early debate was to give Biden time to recover if it went poorly. It wasn’t so much a power move to take on Trump as a defensive one to rip the band-aid off, it seems pretty clear to me. Then it went worse than they likely imagined it could. Now, we’re forced to deal with the fact of his pronounced decline in extemporaneous situations . But at least it’s not September or October.
I can no longer say that Biden isn't too old to serve another 4 years.
As a voter, is my responsibility to lie about this if someone argues that he's too old for them to vote for him? Or to say 'that's not important'? That seems to be the WH message to voters.
Biden has to make the case that he's not too old and change all our minds. If he does, great. It seems so unlikely though.
I’m watching too many fellow democrats gaslight themselves, just like MAGA!
This wasn’t one bad debate. Biden’s cognitive decline was an issue for many people for over a year. It’s what all the focus groups had been saying.
We refused to believe it because Biden did a great job his first term. I personally thought his decline was manufactured, until Thursday night.
Unfortunately, now it might be too late. Whitmer just said that MI is lost. If that’s true, then the election may already be over since MI is a must win.
So now we’re left with a choice between an old narcissistic sociopath, with daddy issues, or an 81 year old octogenarian, who may or may not be suffering from a major cognitive decline.
Good times!…:)
You're wrong. Biden did a great job during the SOTU where everyone said he would be terrible. Prior to the debate everyone said Biden would great and Trump would be crazy. I SAID, and I WAS RIGHT, that if Biden didn't do as well as the SOTU and Trump didn't act crazy Trump would win and Biden would lose. I WAS RIGHT. Biden lost becauae of expectations.
Seriously, expectations is the culprit? Stop
Gaslighting yourself, you’re starting to sound a lot like the MAGA crowd.
It was a mitigated disaster. And until you recognize this fact, then I won’t bother having a discussion with you.
FWIW, the "Michigan is lost" bit may not be an accurate representation of Whitmer's feelings. Her aides deny it, and it seems to have come through a "rival" politician's camp.
Thank you. I hope you’re right, but the polls show Biden still behind. Not a good sign for a must win state.
Article is in politico that people are misquoting
I don’t feel gaslit at all. Biden’s debate was awful.
Every Pundit calling for Biden to step aside either should make the case that Harris would be more likely than Biden to beat Trump or else should describe the practical path to a nominee other than Harris.
(And please, spare me your silly “brokered convention” fantasies).
How about something radical like maybe a press conference for Biden to calm the world....or light it on fire but c'mon, show us the goods.
Sure. Do it. That being said it will make almost zero difference and if it did it would be on the slightest margins and would evaporate in a week or 2.
He could do 10 events and people would say why didn’t he do 20. He can go on stern and people would be like why doesn’t he do Rogan. I’m not saying he shouldn’t do things but Biden does things all the time. Most aren’t even covered. When they are great appearances people say well it was scripted or the questions were known beforehand, blah blah blah. He is going to do a massive speech in a week for nato’s 75th anniversary. Let me tell you how much coverage it will get: zero. Just like his speeches and q and a at d-day.
That being said, that isn’t what I’m arguing. If you (not you in particular) want jb to dropout and endorse Kamala I get it. But if you want him to dropout and not endorse Kamala then I need you to walk through the process and it ain’t a brokered convention
Kamala could never win. She has less legislative experience than Trump. That would be a stupid move. If you wanted to replace Kamala with, let's say, Andy Bashear, governor of KY who is the 4th most popular governor in the US, then we'd be in business, but it ain't gonna happen.
A generational political talent like Bashear, you mean?...
I don't know what you mean. He's 47 yrs old.
(A great comment on JVL’s page today) “Never admired Kamala in the past but now think she's the right choice if Biden steps down. She's had 31/2 years to absorb how the system works, she will have Biden's blessing and she will have access to the campaign war chest. Most important, in a short campaign she won't be doing public dissections of complex issues, her weak point. She will essentially be an experienced prosecutor prosecuting the case against Donald Trump while laying out an optimistic picture of great advances for the American public. Sure, we have a great "bench" but none have been vetted nationally and none is a generational political talent. I say Harris.“
Nope she could never beat Trump. And anyway Trump is going to run against Harris anyway, if he's smart. It would be better to replace Harris with someone with heft and experience. But it won't happen.
This isn’t really a response to my statement. If you want Biden to step down (not saying you do) and you don’t want Harris (seems clear you don’t) then you have to tell us how you get from Biden to whoever and don’t say a brokered convention
Yep. Totally agree.
Let’s be clear she could lose too. Shit there is a chance no matter what we do, we lose. That’s what is so depressing
I particularly liked this part: “(S)he won't be doing public dissections of complex issues, her weak point. She will essentially be an experienced prosecutor prosecuting the case against Donald Trump.”
Another commentator suggested Pete Buttigieg as her VP.
I love Joe.
Me too. I don’t believe she will be able to pick her Vp. That WILL BE determined with the delegates. At least this is what happened in 1960 and 1968 dem convention.
Agreed…:)
There is no may. He's definitely not.
Have you met with him recently? Or is this your instincts talking? I’m voting for Biden. I’d vote for a head of lettuce before Trump.
That said, I’m not the one who needs convincing, and Biden’s team isn’t making him available to the press. So unless he can convince the “undecided” in five swing states somehow, it doesn’t really matter what we think….:)
It's what I've seen from him, including the debate. This was one bad debate, and his supposed decline is clearly manufactured. I'm not worried about the swing states; Biden will be fine.
How can you say that. Is he in those states campaigning? Is he being interviewed by their local radio and TV? Why would they vote for him?
As the wise man once said, “we shall see!” It’s not the only worry though. He needs to articulate his accomplishments, and be able to confidently address Trump’s lies. Now, more than ever…:)
This isn’t 1960. Nobody makes decisions about who to vote for because of the televised reality show that passes for presidential debates nowadays. This is a nothing burger. Biden will win easily.
A significant portion of the Dems are in 2016 level of denial… “surely the American voter can see what an awful president Trump would be, no matter how flawed our candidate may be, we can rest assured that victory will come our way “…
Maybe there is more than one cult in the mix here…
The problem is that too many people, especially the media, fixate on Trump himself, and too often ignore his even more dangerous protectors. I knew 30 years before 2016 that Trump was unfit for any public office. But until he took office (the insane reaction to the inauguration crowd was the first hint) I naively thought enough Republicans in all 3 branches of government would "show him who's boss." And in fact the few times they did (e.g. when he considered appointing Jeffrey Clark AG), he always backed down. For all his tough talk, without that protection he's a weak coward. But I grossly overestimated THEM, not him. I since see them in 3 types: (1) rabid authoritarians who have always been determined to destroy the Republic, but lacked perfect "useful idiot" to enable them; (2) shameless opportunists only interested in their personal goals and willing to kiss up to him even if they privately despise him; (3) spineless cowards afraid of not him but the 1s and 2s.
Every Trump supporter cheered Biden’s performance, it’s a staple of their feeds, they are thrilled to promote how badly he appeared, and I’ve been bombarded with his claim CBP endorsed him.
Clinton won CA by nearly 2x her national popular vote margin.
I will vote against Trump, but as with the 2016 election, my vote will not matter if the Biden campaign remains incompetent.
Team Tim. Thank you for focusing on the urgent crisis in our democracy. We need advocates like you amplifying this critical message.
Tom Nichols is so right. I have been a strong Biden supporter since he first declared in 2019. Why? I have always appreciated him but mainly because I knew he was the best option to stop Trump. Now he obviously isn't and that is Job 1. And I'm not in any pundit class. We need another option and we need the campaign (and Joe) to face reality. We all love him but it's just the truth.
That’s a perfectly reasonable take.
Every Pundit calling for Biden to step aside either should make the case that Harris would be more likely than Biden to beat Trump or else should describe the practical path to a nominee other than Harris.
(And please, spare me people’s silly “brokered convention” fantasies).
That’s what I have been struggling with
One week ago I would be making the same argument. I would have said that Biden was the best option. I can't say that now. I'm not clairvoyant and I don't have my own polling, so I can't prove it. But I believe it. And sure, none of us can make anything happen by ourselves. This choice can only be made by Joe. I hope it is the right one.
Don’t disagree at all. However, pundits who are calling for it. Cool. Pundits who call for dems to bypass Kamala have to show HOW they get to their preferred candidate.
I find that (1) they have no idea so they say “brokered convention or (2) know how much of a shitshow it will be but don’t want tell us because then it means we either go with Joe or Kamala
All of this calling for Biden to step aside is unhelpful and a waste of time. He isn’t going to and if he did it would be chaos. Suck it up and do the work.
Hmmm. I don’t disagree with you at all. In fact I find it odd to even have that stupid conversation because WE HAVE NO CONTROL IF HE DOES.
However that isn’t my point. My point is the following: if you are a political pundit and assume he drops out AND you say we shouldn’t choose Harris THEN explain how and what are the pitfalls
Until the debate,It was very close national and Trump held a small lead in five or six swing states.That disaster of a debate was most likely a game changer. Democrats in House and Senate are going to keep their distance from Biden . (like Carter in 1980) Republicans are going to tie running Democrats to Biden. It doesn't take Quantum mechanics to figure this out
Sure so…people need to make the case for Harris OR spell out what needs and will happen to get someone else. Don’t disagree at all
To be fair if any dem presidential candidate loses were are fucked in the house and the senate
Appreciate the bullshit-free zone!
"And do not answer our doubts about Biden and his staff with a MAGA-style blaming-the-press bit. "
JFC.
Thank god there’s people with platforms talking straightforward about this and calling the situation for what it is. Reasonable debate is necessary but knee jerk reactions and cancelling gives me way too heavy ‘maga leaving Fox News for calling Arizona’ vibes.
Just stop with all this. You do realize the Republicans would NEVER do this. If Trump had a bad debate they’d circle the wagons around him instantly, pick up the nearest sharp object, and start attacking. And the media would cover the attacks way more than the bad debate. Instead, we get bedwetting about replacing Biden on the ticket and Trump gets a free pass on all the lies he spewed at the debate. Nice going.
I don’t want to be like the Republicans and being stuck with Trump as a candidate. That is why we need to be clear eyed when we see our candidate is “not all there”. Personally, I think it was sad that his family and circle of close advisers allowed him to take the debate stage in that condition (let alone run for President).
Agreed. Democrats have battered spouse syndrome. After they get beaten they apologise for getting blood on the floor.
At least one side has to be pro democracy and honest about what’s really happening. Yes, the asymmetry is maddening. This is what it is to be a political party and not a cult.
You said it Mark. I’m so disgusted with the focus being on Biden’s bad night instead of the ton of BS that Trump threw at Biden. Can anyone debate Trump? He knows no rules or limits. And his people loves him!
Well I’m focusing on that 12 point swing in New Hampshire where Trump is now leading Biden by 2 points. I was all in for Biden but that one night did confirm why Biden turned down the Super Bowl interview and any other live interview that is not scripted. He should have been on every Sunday show after that debate instead of hanging with family for reaffirmation that all is well.
Trump would be hard to debate BUT he also leaves himself open for so many counter attacks. Most of the commenters on this thread could effectively punch Trump (metaphorically) in his glass jaw. Biden was not able to do it one time during the 90 minute debate. That is not acceptable.
The pundits should have called for Trump to withdraw after his debate performance!
Do you really feel it's wise to use the Republican Party of 2024 as the yardstick by which we measure advisable, let alone acceptable conduct?
Which is why we are not a cult, unlike the Republican Party.
I think that's exactly what is driving the bedwetting from Tim and company. Their 'stick together no matter what GOP strategy' has brought us Trump, and this SCOTUS, and this House. If the Dems don't win and we lose this democracy, history will not be kind to them for greasing the skids for Trump.
Wait I thought the whole point was that we’re pushing back on the GOP for enabling Trump bc it’s not actually about your team “winning,” but the good of the country…
Maga doesn’t typically act like adults so I’m not sure holding them up as an example for democrats (or center folks for that matter) makes sense. People are having a conversation about this right now. That’s fair and necessary. Telling people not to say what they’re thinking seems quite unreasonable.
True, unless we’re not really having a discussion, since one side is in denial about how poorly the candidate performed, and then gaslighting the rest of us who said Biden’s performance was a mitigated DISASTER!…:)
This isn't bedwetting. I don't want the Democrats to act like Republicans. We cannot have two parties succumb to their worst impulses and defend their team no matter what.
1) The GOP are a cult, but one with 45% of the electorate sewn up.
2) Biden just didn’t have “a bad debate”. He is not physically or cognitively able to handle a campaign; he can do fine sheltered in the WH, but he has to win the election, and right now, he is not doing that. He isn’t hitting the Sunday morning shows, he isn’t doing town halls, he isn’t able to coherently defending his record.
3) While well meaning, Biden protectors are doing him and the nation a great disservice. We are in this mess by failing to recognize the elephant in the room.
Gawd, we are on the titanic and arguing if we just can’t ignore the huge gash in the hull.
Well said…:)
I am coining a new political phrase. We are being "Schmidted"! Steve Schmidt gave us Sarah Palin, a clueless and flawed VP candidate that sunk John McCain. And now the Democrats are giving us a frail Joe Biden. I hope everyone will like Trump 2.0 and Project 2025 because that is what we are getting this time around for not listening.
John McCain gave us Sarah Palin.
True, but it was Steve Schmidt and Nicolle Wallace that didn't conduct the due diligence that would have shown John McCain that picking Sarah Palin was NOT a good decision.
Tim, I’m EXTENDING my subscription.
SAME HERE!
Same thing a couple times I said "can I really justify 'wasting' money and resubscribed after stopping.
Thanks so much yall
Thanks too for highlighting the overlooked tragedy that is Louisiana.
The tragedy of Louisiana is about to become the tragedy of the United States of America.