Emeritus Professor of Biology here, former recipient of NIH funding, and co-chair emeritus of one of NIH's study sections that reviews and scores grant proposals. Please stop referring to indirect costs as "administrative." Indirect costs are for FACILITIES and administration. Facilities like steam for the autoclaves, electricity for the lights, hazmat disposal, and safety training for lab personnel. Please also emphasize that indirect cost rates are NEGOTIATED between the research organization and the federal government. These negotiations require universities (in my case) to carefully and thoroughly document the ancillary costs of performing research.
Failing to pay the NEGOTIATED indirect costs is effectively a breach of contract.
Our research universities and national parks are the crown jewels of this country. Don't let Trusk touch either of them.
Thanks so much. PLEASE continue to comment as much as you are willing: one of the things that makes being on Bulwark so significant is the enormity of knowledge and experience shared in comments.
I wish I felt secure that giving Republican politicians the facts in context would make a difference. I think a good number of them realize what Trump is and understand what he is doing but they also know - and fear - what will happen if they don’t not only go along with the construct, but engage and contribute to it on demand. How do you persuade someone with a family to stand up to Trump when they know the consequences will land on their partner and kids as well as on themself? Would you become a public truth teller if your kids will be affected by your honourable decision? Unless you’re a gazillionaire, you can’t afford to pay $10,000 a month for personal security and if you get on the wrong side of Trump and he sets his goon squads on you, you will need private security. Republican politicians know this which is why they will not break ranks and speak out about Trump even though they know they should. Several politicians have already said that is why they couldn’t vote to impeach Trump.
I just used parts of your comment (copy/paste) to write to my Senator to ask him to stop the NIH cuts. Our flagship state university houses a major research center that focuses on nutrition, obesity, diabetes and dementia, as well as nutrition studies for the military under a contract with the Dept of Defense. The facts you enumerated will help my email have a stronger impact, I hope. Please continue to contribute to this discussion so that we can more effectively fight this nonsense. Thank you.
Thank you for this. I've worked in the quality assurance department in various pharmaceutical and food companies, and have always been considered overhead and not part of the profit-generating side of the business. But, boy, when things go south, the companies rely on QA to get them out of their mess. It sounds pretty for money to go solely and directly to "research", but without equipment, facilities, people, etc., just how does this research get done?
Indeed. The administrative costs include auditing research grant spending to verify that expenditures conform to federal laws and regulations and to the terms of the grant.
It breaks my heart to see the country turned against talented and committed people doing great things for people all over the world. We're in a very bad place and need a good government good governing movement to turn things around
How do the contracts read, though? This morning I read about some of the Department of Education contracts that were cancelled yesterday, and those contracts have a clause in them that says they can be terminated at any time by the federal government “for convenience”, and not for cause. Thus, for the DOE contracts, it is NOT a breach of contract for them to be cancelled in a summary fashion, and those contractors have no recourse whatsoever. Some of the DOE contractors were coming to the end of the research they were doing, and now it’s over. No final report, and no final payment. If the NIH contracts have the same language, it’s not a breach of contract, and the research teams will have no recourse either.
I don't know, Moreno. I think that you having staff is a waste of taxpayer money. I think you can do all your administrative, communication and research work yourself.
Isn’t he the guy who wise cracked that women over 50 shouldn’t be talking about abortion since it didn’t affect them? Just another MAGA dude who knows nothing about women’s bodies.
Women of America: Please don’t swipe right, hook up, date, or otherwise give the time of day to any MAGA men. They’re disgusting.
“These people” are very likely not “stupid”. Comments like that are not how to advance understanding and improve communication. Unless people who oppose what is happening can find a way to get through the carefully-constructed communications divide around people who are in Magaworld, there is no hope of stoping the coup in progress. Trump supporters live in a world of different “facts”. They do their own research and the algorithms deliver news, articles and “research” that reinforces what is on their radios and tvs and what their neighbours and pastors and friends all hear from the same sources, along with stories of how “Democrats” all think Trump supporters are stupid.
They probably think you are a scammer and a liar who hates America and abuses children because that is the information in the world they live in. I don’t know how to cross that divide but saying Trump supporters are stupid isn’t helping. Showing a Republican politician the letter sent to constituents was a brilliant move. Somehow, that sort of proof of duplicity is what those constituents need to see and hear. But how to get that information to Republican voters is the question that needs answering.
Someone needs to communicate to him “indirect costs” in car dealership terms. Or that it would be like trying to sell your cars having only an unimproved lot of land 20 miles from the nearest town, oh, and no advertising allowed.
Indirect costs pay for the existence of parking lots. Outside of a few large cities, all the researchers need to be able to park their cars in order to get to their offices and labs.
Maybe lawmakers need to acquaint themselves with all the things that are considered indirect costs. Research doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Man we sure have some ignorant elected officials. 🤦♀️
I heard a rumor that around the time Coach ascended to the senate, he didn't know the three basic divisions of government. That seemed to me impossible. I now realize it was very likely true. But Coach did know how to block and tackle- a year's worth of military upgrades approvals, based on his "pro-life" stance once in the senate.
I wonder if the Muskrats will also demand an end to the cost-plus contracts freely given out to defense contractors and running into the billions. Universities negotiate a fixed overhead rate that also pays for their facilities, training, libraries, equipment, etc. defense contractors get an essentially open-ended contract that can multiply their original costs.
"Collins said she also called Kennedy, who promised her he will “re-examine this initiative that was implemented prior to his confirmation” upon taking the reins at HHS."
Hey Sue, how about saying he doesn't get your confirmation vote unless Trump backs down!!!
Or maybe Trump will learn his lesson once you get Kennedy to "promise" to "re-examine" Trumps unconstitutional behavior!
And Mr. Cassidy. NIH research is for the sake of all Americans, not just Louisianans.
Sen. Moreno is uninformed and following a demagogue who doesn't undersand how research is done. "Indirect costs" don't mean unreal costs. Biomedical research is expensive and requires state of the art equipment and labs. When you have politicians, like Moreno or Trump, who don't care or are ignorant, to score political points: "You get what you pay for."
I have ovarian cancer, now in remission. I am still alive because all of those scientists who work at or are funded by NIH go to work every day to learn more about how to treat cancer and hundreds of other diseases we all suffer from. There are millions of Americans just like me. Here is what every one of us must do. We must all keep those cards, letters, emails and phone calls coming. Cancer patients or parents of kids with cancer, tell your representatives that they must support the work our scientists are doing. Send pictures of the kids who are depending on science to keep them alive so they can grow up. Do you have a parent or a spouse you are losing to Alzheimer's Disease? Do you really think that saving them or others like them is wasting money? If you are a farmer who has just been told you no longer have a market for your crops because Trump/Musk shut down USAID, tell your representatives that you expect them to fix that.
If you are represented by Republicans, make sure they know you are paying attention to what they are or are not doing. Get a group together and visit their offices in your state. If you are represented by Democrats, make sure to tell them you appreciate everything they are doing to oppose Trump, Musk and DOGE. Call their offices, the ones in your state and the one in DC every day. It's easy. Put their numbers in your phone. Keep calling until you get through. If you get one of those fraudulent letters filled with lies, write back and tell them they have no right to lie to you. (Those DOGE people have had access to your personal information. God knows what they have already done with it.) Tell them how what is happening in DC affects your family. We have to make these people fear their voters more than they fear Trump. The only way to do that is to keep the pressure on.
I remember well all the Republicans who were incensed by the idea that people duped into mortgages they couldn’t afford would be allowed to get out of them during the Great Recession. They insisted they were contracts and that you just can’t back out or change the conditions. Now President Musk and his Orange Poodle are shredding contracts, not just with research institutes but also with farmers supplying food to USAID and employees throughout the government. These are illegal breaches of contracts but somehow Republicans suddenly care not at all about that.
Don’t you love it, when our politicians are so ignorant of the Constitution, that they don’t even know what their job is? They sound like born again Christians, who have no idea what Jesus was actually talking about when he said, “love thy neighbor,” or anything else from the Gospels.
Seriously, the Speaker of the House doesn’t even know that we have 3 separate branches of government, as checks and balances. Or that actually, the Constitution wasn’t written to put White Christian Nationalists, ahead of every other religion, and that the laws of the lands aren’t the laws of the Bible!
Clearly what we have here is a “failure to communicate!” Someone. We’d tinker these charlatans what their job title entails; anyone? Anyone??????
They know. They just no longer care. They want to get reelected and stay in office, so they have to toe the party line or the MAGA voters will throw them out. Just a bunch of power hungry hacks.
Agreed, but still the hypocrisy is so thick, I can’t breathe! Just the fact that somehow stopping Trump’s agenda is against the law, and it can’t even be challenged, does not a democracy make; which is precisely the point!….:)
Ann - this really seems to apply to Moreno. You can find plenty of quotes and positions he’s taken in the past. But to get into Senate he denied what he knows. A sad tale of weakness but an old one, like back to
I'd say it's more a hunger. Sad, empty pit he wishes he could fill but he keeps looking in the wrong places. Kind of pathetic really. But his actions work against any sympathy I might muster
Bravo! The Trump Administration, along with RFK, Jr., take a brave stand against medical hoaxes. Not just the proven Covid-19 hoax … but all vaccines and now potential research into new ones. Whew, always knew polio was a fake thing. Also the flu, chicken- and smallpox, all them things.
If republican lawmakers were truly concerned, they could use the powers vested in them by their voters to stop Musk. It's that easy. The rest is just B/S.
This strikes me as a sort of cousin to making sure more women carry to term while doing nothing to help them pay for any pregnancy and childcare costs.
Emeritus Professor of Biology here, former recipient of NIH funding, and co-chair emeritus of one of NIH's study sections that reviews and scores grant proposals. Please stop referring to indirect costs as "administrative." Indirect costs are for FACILITIES and administration. Facilities like steam for the autoclaves, electricity for the lights, hazmat disposal, and safety training for lab personnel. Please also emphasize that indirect cost rates are NEGOTIATED between the research organization and the federal government. These negotiations require universities (in my case) to carefully and thoroughly document the ancillary costs of performing research.
Failing to pay the NEGOTIATED indirect costs is effectively a breach of contract.
Our research universities and national parks are the crown jewels of this country. Don't let Trusk touch either of them.
Thanks so much. PLEASE continue to comment as much as you are willing: one of the things that makes being on Bulwark so significant is the enormity of knowledge and experience shared in comments.
I wish I felt secure that giving Republican politicians the facts in context would make a difference. I think a good number of them realize what Trump is and understand what he is doing but they also know - and fear - what will happen if they don’t not only go along with the construct, but engage and contribute to it on demand. How do you persuade someone with a family to stand up to Trump when they know the consequences will land on their partner and kids as well as on themself? Would you become a public truth teller if your kids will be affected by your honourable decision? Unless you’re a gazillionaire, you can’t afford to pay $10,000 a month for personal security and if you get on the wrong side of Trump and he sets his goon squads on you, you will need private security. Republican politicians know this which is why they will not break ranks and speak out about Trump even though they know they should. Several politicians have already said that is why they couldn’t vote to impeach Trump.
I just used parts of your comment (copy/paste) to write to my Senator to ask him to stop the NIH cuts. Our flagship state university houses a major research center that focuses on nutrition, obesity, diabetes and dementia, as well as nutrition studies for the military under a contract with the Dept of Defense. The facts you enumerated will help my email have a stronger impact, I hope. Please continue to contribute to this discussion so that we can more effectively fight this nonsense. Thank you.
Thank you for this. I've worked in the quality assurance department in various pharmaceutical and food companies, and have always been considered overhead and not part of the profit-generating side of the business. But, boy, when things go south, the companies rely on QA to get them out of their mess. It sounds pretty for money to go solely and directly to "research", but without equipment, facilities, people, etc., just how does this research get done?
Thank you. In short, universities and research facilities are already explaining where the money goes.
Indeed. The administrative costs include auditing research grant spending to verify that expenditures conform to federal laws and regulations and to the terms of the grant.
It breaks my heart to see the country turned against talented and committed people doing great things for people all over the world. We're in a very bad place and need a good government good governing movement to turn things around
I was going to try to make this point, but you've done it far better than I could have.
How do the contracts read, though? This morning I read about some of the Department of Education contracts that were cancelled yesterday, and those contracts have a clause in them that says they can be terminated at any time by the federal government “for convenience”, and not for cause. Thus, for the DOE contracts, it is NOT a breach of contract for them to be cancelled in a summary fashion, and those contractors have no recourse whatsoever. Some of the DOE contractors were coming to the end of the research they were doing, and now it’s over. No final report, and no final payment. If the NIH contracts have the same language, it’s not a breach of contract, and the research teams will have no recourse either.
That stinks!
Sorry, meaning I don't like that one bit, that's terrible to hear!
Fortunately, I thought that’s what you meant. I agree!
And indirect costs are over and above the direct costs of the research. They do not reduce the direct costs.
I don't know, Moreno. I think that you having staff is a waste of taxpayer money. I think you can do all your administrative, communication and research work yourself.
Isn’t he the guy who wise cracked that women over 50 shouldn’t be talking about abortion since it didn’t affect them? Just another MAGA dude who knows nothing about women’s bodies.
Women of America: Please don’t swipe right, hook up, date, or otherwise give the time of day to any MAGA men. They’re disgusting.
And contribute your senate salary to pediatric research.
Sen. Moreno is basically saying, "Heck, yes, love the cancer research, but do it in the parking lot with equipment from home."
Or the back alley … along with abortions.
dead on. these people are so stupid they can't even think to ask about what they don't know.
And too arrogant to know they don’t know.
“These people” are very likely not “stupid”. Comments like that are not how to advance understanding and improve communication. Unless people who oppose what is happening can find a way to get through the carefully-constructed communications divide around people who are in Magaworld, there is no hope of stoping the coup in progress. Trump supporters live in a world of different “facts”. They do their own research and the algorithms deliver news, articles and “research” that reinforces what is on their radios and tvs and what their neighbours and pastors and friends all hear from the same sources, along with stories of how “Democrats” all think Trump supporters are stupid.
They probably think you are a scammer and a liar who hates America and abuses children because that is the information in the world they live in. I don’t know how to cross that divide but saying Trump supporters are stupid isn’t helping. Showing a Republican politician the letter sent to constituents was a brilliant move. Somehow, that sort of proof of duplicity is what those constituents need to see and hear. But how to get that information to Republican voters is the question that needs answering.
Prove the writer wrong. Let's see some cogent, coherent statements from Moreno
Someone needs to communicate to him “indirect costs” in car dealership terms. Or that it would be like trying to sell your cars having only an unimproved lot of land 20 miles from the nearest town, oh, and no advertising allowed.
Indirect costs pay for the existence of parking lots. Outside of a few large cities, all the researchers need to be able to park their cars in order to get to their offices and labs.
"I want research done for the sake of my people in Louisiana."
No he doesn't. If he did, he would have killed the RFK nomination in committee.
He meant "I want my people in Louisiana to believe I support research done for their sake.”
Research on Brain worms
Maybe lawmakers need to acquaint themselves with all the things that are considered indirect costs. Research doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Man we sure have some ignorant elected officials. 🤦♀️
it is stunning how many third-rate minds you can find in the gop caucus.
Just Tuberville himself brings their average down to third rate.
I heard a rumor that around the time Coach ascended to the senate, he didn't know the three basic divisions of government. That seemed to me impossible. I now realize it was very likely true. But Coach did know how to block and tackle- a year's worth of military upgrades approvals, based on his "pro-life" stance once in the senate.
Like clowns in a tiny car.
Well when a clown is in charge...
I wonder if the Muskrats will also demand an end to the cost-plus contracts freely given out to defense contractors and running into the billions. Universities negotiate a fixed overhead rate that also pays for their facilities, training, libraries, equipment, etc. defense contractors get an essentially open-ended contract that can multiply their original costs.
"Collins said she also called Kennedy, who promised her he will “re-examine this initiative that was implemented prior to his confirmation” upon taking the reins at HHS."
Hey Sue, how about saying he doesn't get your confirmation vote unless Trump backs down!!!
Or maybe Trump will learn his lesson once you get Kennedy to "promise" to "re-examine" Trumps unconstitutional behavior!
And Mr. Cassidy. NIH research is for the sake of all Americans, not just Louisianans.
I look forward to the fulfillment of the promises and commitments that these senators extract from the nominees. (snort)
Eff susie
Sen. Moreno is uninformed and following a demagogue who doesn't undersand how research is done. "Indirect costs" don't mean unreal costs. Biomedical research is expensive and requires state of the art equipment and labs. When you have politicians, like Moreno or Trump, who don't care or are ignorant, to score political points: "You get what you pay for."
Unfortunately, David, we all got what some billionaires paid for 😡
"The senator is sidestepping"
"Sidestepping" doesn't begin to capture the depth of the dishonesty here.
I have ovarian cancer, now in remission. I am still alive because all of those scientists who work at or are funded by NIH go to work every day to learn more about how to treat cancer and hundreds of other diseases we all suffer from. There are millions of Americans just like me. Here is what every one of us must do. We must all keep those cards, letters, emails and phone calls coming. Cancer patients or parents of kids with cancer, tell your representatives that they must support the work our scientists are doing. Send pictures of the kids who are depending on science to keep them alive so they can grow up. Do you have a parent or a spouse you are losing to Alzheimer's Disease? Do you really think that saving them or others like them is wasting money? If you are a farmer who has just been told you no longer have a market for your crops because Trump/Musk shut down USAID, tell your representatives that you expect them to fix that.
If you are represented by Republicans, make sure they know you are paying attention to what they are or are not doing. Get a group together and visit their offices in your state. If you are represented by Democrats, make sure to tell them you appreciate everything they are doing to oppose Trump, Musk and DOGE. Call their offices, the ones in your state and the one in DC every day. It's easy. Put their numbers in your phone. Keep calling until you get through. If you get one of those fraudulent letters filled with lies, write back and tell them they have no right to lie to you. (Those DOGE people have had access to your personal information. God knows what they have already done with it.) Tell them how what is happening in DC affects your family. We have to make these people fear their voters more than they fear Trump. The only way to do that is to keep the pressure on.
I remember well all the Republicans who were incensed by the idea that people duped into mortgages they couldn’t afford would be allowed to get out of them during the Great Recession. They insisted they were contracts and that you just can’t back out or change the conditions. Now President Musk and his Orange Poodle are shredding contracts, not just with research institutes but also with farmers supplying food to USAID and employees throughout the government. These are illegal breaches of contracts but somehow Republicans suddenly care not at all about that.
This is nothing new. Trump and Musk have been reaching contracts for decades.
And gotten away with it.
Don’t you love it, when our politicians are so ignorant of the Constitution, that they don’t even know what their job is? They sound like born again Christians, who have no idea what Jesus was actually talking about when he said, “love thy neighbor,” or anything else from the Gospels.
Seriously, the Speaker of the House doesn’t even know that we have 3 separate branches of government, as checks and balances. Or that actually, the Constitution wasn’t written to put White Christian Nationalists, ahead of every other religion, and that the laws of the lands aren’t the laws of the Bible!
Clearly what we have here is a “failure to communicate!” Someone. We’d tinker these charlatans what their job title entails; anyone? Anyone??????
They know. They just no longer care. They want to get reelected and stay in office, so they have to toe the party line or the MAGA voters will throw them out. Just a bunch of power hungry hacks.
Agreed, but still the hypocrisy is so thick, I can’t breathe! Just the fact that somehow stopping Trump’s agenda is against the law, and it can’t even be challenged, does not a democracy make; which is precisely the point!….:)
Ann - this really seems to apply to Moreno. You can find plenty of quotes and positions he’s taken in the past. But to get into Senate he denied what he knows. A sad tale of weakness but an old one, like back to
Luke 22:56-60
Who was it said that Trump was “America’s Hitler”? Oh, yeah…Vance.
Vance is another who knows better. Has some brains but less wisdom, much less integrity.
Lots of ambition in that one…
I'd say it's more a hunger. Sad, empty pit he wishes he could fill but he keeps looking in the wrong places. Kind of pathetic really. But his actions work against any sympathy I might muster
Bravo! The Trump Administration, along with RFK, Jr., take a brave stand against medical hoaxes. Not just the proven Covid-19 hoax … but all vaccines and now potential research into new ones. Whew, always knew polio was a fake thing. Also the flu, chicken- and smallpox, all them things.
I don’t know anybody who’s who has been infected by smallpox
. So it must be a hoax. .'
If republican lawmakers were truly concerned, they could use the powers vested in them by their voters to stop Musk. It's that easy. The rest is just B/S.
This strikes me as a sort of cousin to making sure more women carry to term while doing nothing to help them pay for any pregnancy and childcare costs.