Linda C. never fails to impress me with her wide-ranging sophistication. She mentions including Gorecki’s “Symphony of Sorrowful Songs” on the voyage. I just discovered this symphony about 5 years ago, and it is indeed hauntingly beautiful, a masterful work, but none of my friends has heard of it. Similarly, about 3-4 weeks ago on “Beg to Differ,” Linda mentioned she was rereading Dostoevsky’s “The Brothers Karamazov” and noted the central theme of The Grand Inquisitor that humanity would rather be dictated to and provided “bread” rather than be autonomous, think-for-themselves individuals, and she related this to the threats to democracy and freedom in the authoritarian parts of the world, some of it self-imposed.
I’m reminded that these “cosmic greeting cards” (Carl Sagan’s phrase) in the 1970s included the double helix, a hydrogen atom, and anatomically correct male and female humans. But more ominously, earlier signals emanated from Earth from early 1950s television, namely shows like “I Love Lucy” and “The Honeymooners.” I suspect advanced aliens would give Earth a wide berth after receiving such “signals.”
I loved the Voyager discussion in the highlights/lowlights section of the show. Really thoughtful answers by all and a great idea for discussion. I found your idea particularly nice.
The fact that "that's what out there" is certainly a tremendous accomplishment. Even greater, though, is the fact that, not only is is out there, BUT WE CAN STILL COMMUNICATE WITH IT!!! 🥳
I work in technology in support of federal agencies. I worked a project last year in which we were developing dashboards for use by DHS and other agencies to track and visualize the spread of disinfo/misinfo campaigns. We used the “Zelensky is a Nazi” campaign as a pilot. Using source IP, time stamp, geolocation, and other metadata we were able to observe a replay of the timeline during which the messaging originate from Russian locations, spread to Western Europe and to the U.S. via social media and then conservative news outlets. It was fascinating.
I'm looking forward to Anne's upcoming Atlantic piece on Russian disinformation.
As an Orthodox Christian, I am extremely annoyed at how Russian disinformation has penetrated American Orthodoxy. During the Balkan wars of the 1990s, the Serbs had similar success in playing on the sympathies of Orthodox Christians in the US through a combination of identity politics and lies. When spinning their tales for American consumption, they depicted their purely ethnic war against all non-Serbs as a war in defense of Orthodoxy. This was an out-and-out lie with no basis in reality, but a lot of Orthodox Americans believe it to this day. Russia is following the Serbian playbook.
I recall that Serb disinformation campaign as well, although in the Greek parish that I attended it probably had somewhat less -- although not negligible -- penetration compared to the parishes of the Slavic traditions.
This time I think that the Russian campaign is having even less impact on Greek Orthodox Christians because of Patriarch Bartholomew's support of the autocephalous Ukrainian Church; the behavior of the Patriarch of Moscow, naturally, is much worse, with dire implications for the future.
I attend two very different Antiochian parishes. One is very ethnic, with lots of immigrants, while the other is 80% converts. The convert parish was founded by former Anglo-Catholics, but it has come to be dominated by former Evangelicals, with their culture war concerns, who are susceptible to Putin's lies, which validate all their fears. At the ethnic parish they don't talk much about US politics. Even with respect to Palestine, the focus is on fundraising for charity rather than politics.
Have you seen the "Clash of the Patriarchs" article in this month's Atlantic? Nothing surprising, but it does give a few new details and weaves it all into a comprehensive picture.
I did! It was a great article. One standout thing about it is that it's one of the few articles I've seen outside the Orthodox press that perceived the importance of the Mount Athos communities in current disputes in the church. It's not just the Russian monastery that the article highlights that is a problem: some of the Greek houses are very retrograde, too, and have not hesitated to attack Patriarch Bartholomew from time to time, even coming close to accusing him of heresy. The man was already a living saint before the Russians started persecuting him, too.
One of my friends at the convert parish is pushing a story about Bartholomew being a tool of the CIA (or the State Department - the story morphs in ways that do not take account of rivalries in the US government). One sign of a Russian propaganda narrative is that it reduces all opposition to a CIA plot. Putin, the career KGB officer, still sees history as a spy-vs.-spy drama.
True, if the result from SCOTUS is just about anything short of "affirmed on the opinion of the Court below", it will push the trial back past the election. It seems to me jack Smith, if so inclined, could avoid the delay by simply dropping the counts which are arguably, however remotely, based on official acts and keeping only those actions clearly in Trump's capacity as a candidate.
Damon scared the bejabbers out of me with his mention of the current anti-Israel protests and their similarities to the protests of 1968 culminating in those at the Democratic convention. They did, after all, give us Nixon's victory in November.
havent read Plato which i wish to do, hope to read it soon, but one of my book loves is the Cicero trilogy by richard harris...and regarding Plato it is a fav :-
Nam Catonem nostrum non tu amas plus quam ego;sed tamen ille optimo animo utens et summa fide nocet interdum rei publicae; dicit enim tamquam in Platonis polteia, non tamquam in Romuli faexe, sentiam
or as translated :-
As for our friend Cato, I have as warm a regard for him as you. But the fact remains that with all his patriotism and intregrity he is sometimes a political liability. He speaks in the senate as though he were living in Plato's Republic rather than Romulus's shithole.
the mind still boggles that the american legal system cant judge a leader that once chanced a insurrection against the government threatening a overturning of the state...and you cant bring him to trial after 3 years? i mean the english legal system is slow but at least we would get a trial of such magnitude done? what has happened to the american can-do attitude? [sighs] :(
a great episode this week , especially about the protests which is a fraught , delicate issue, i think this was discussed well , with all relevant points covered giving a good all round take on this very complex issue - bravo! :)
it was always said that in the coldwar that the americans had the technological edge but the soviets had the edge in people/person analysis and the spycraft to move things....that said in this new age of media...it does rather play to russian strenghts :(
Linda C. never fails to impress me with her wide-ranging sophistication. She mentions including Gorecki’s “Symphony of Sorrowful Songs” on the voyage. I just discovered this symphony about 5 years ago, and it is indeed hauntingly beautiful, a masterful work, but none of my friends has heard of it. Similarly, about 3-4 weeks ago on “Beg to Differ,” Linda mentioned she was rereading Dostoevsky’s “The Brothers Karamazov” and noted the central theme of The Grand Inquisitor that humanity would rather be dictated to and provided “bread” rather than be autonomous, think-for-themselves individuals, and she related this to the threats to democracy and freedom in the authoritarian parts of the world, some of it self-imposed.
I’m reminded that these “cosmic greeting cards” (Carl Sagan’s phrase) in the 1970s included the double helix, a hydrogen atom, and anatomically correct male and female humans. But more ominously, earlier signals emanated from Earth from early 1950s television, namely shows like “I Love Lucy” and “The Honeymooners.” I suspect advanced aliens would give Earth a wide berth after receiving such “signals.”
Mona,
I loved the Voyager discussion in the highlights/lowlights section of the show. Really thoughtful answers by all and a great idea for discussion. I found your idea particularly nice.
The fact that "that's what out there" is certainly a tremendous accomplishment. Even greater, though, is the fact that, not only is is out there, BUT WE CAN STILL COMMUNICATE WITH IT!!! 🥳
I work in technology in support of federal agencies. I worked a project last year in which we were developing dashboards for use by DHS and other agencies to track and visualize the spread of disinfo/misinfo campaigns. We used the “Zelensky is a Nazi” campaign as a pilot. Using source IP, time stamp, geolocation, and other metadata we were able to observe a replay of the timeline during which the messaging originate from Russian locations, spread to Western Europe and to the U.S. via social media and then conservative news outlets. It was fascinating.
I'm looking forward to Anne's upcoming Atlantic piece on Russian disinformation.
As an Orthodox Christian, I am extremely annoyed at how Russian disinformation has penetrated American Orthodoxy. During the Balkan wars of the 1990s, the Serbs had similar success in playing on the sympathies of Orthodox Christians in the US through a combination of identity politics and lies. When spinning their tales for American consumption, they depicted their purely ethnic war against all non-Serbs as a war in defense of Orthodoxy. This was an out-and-out lie with no basis in reality, but a lot of Orthodox Americans believe it to this day. Russia is following the Serbian playbook.
The PBS NewsHour recently had a segment on Russia's repression of Ukrainian evangelicals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NTIaFGsyZ0
I recall that Serb disinformation campaign as well, although in the Greek parish that I attended it probably had somewhat less -- although not negligible -- penetration compared to the parishes of the Slavic traditions.
This time I think that the Russian campaign is having even less impact on Greek Orthodox Christians because of Patriarch Bartholomew's support of the autocephalous Ukrainian Church; the behavior of the Patriarch of Moscow, naturally, is much worse, with dire implications for the future.
I attend two very different Antiochian parishes. One is very ethnic, with lots of immigrants, while the other is 80% converts. The convert parish was founded by former Anglo-Catholics, but it has come to be dominated by former Evangelicals, with their culture war concerns, who are susceptible to Putin's lies, which validate all their fears. At the ethnic parish they don't talk much about US politics. Even with respect to Palestine, the focus is on fundraising for charity rather than politics.
Have you seen the "Clash of the Patriarchs" article in this month's Atlantic? Nothing surprising, but it does give a few new details and weaves it all into a comprehensive picture.
I did! It was a great article. One standout thing about it is that it's one of the few articles I've seen outside the Orthodox press that perceived the importance of the Mount Athos communities in current disputes in the church. It's not just the Russian monastery that the article highlights that is a problem: some of the Greek houses are very retrograde, too, and have not hesitated to attack Patriarch Bartholomew from time to time, even coming close to accusing him of heresy. The man was already a living saint before the Russians started persecuting him, too.
One of my friends at the convert parish is pushing a story about Bartholomew being a tool of the CIA (or the State Department - the story morphs in ways that do not take account of rivalries in the US government). One sign of a Russian propaganda narrative is that it reduces all opposition to a CIA plot. Putin, the career KGB officer, still sees history as a spy-vs.-spy drama.
True, if the result from SCOTUS is just about anything short of "affirmed on the opinion of the Court below", it will push the trial back past the election. It seems to me jack Smith, if so inclined, could avoid the delay by simply dropping the counts which are arguably, however remotely, based on official acts and keeping only those actions clearly in Trump's capacity as a candidate.
Damon scared the bejabbers out of me with his mention of the current anti-Israel protests and their similarities to the protests of 1968 culminating in those at the Democratic convention. They did, after all, give us Nixon's victory in November.
havent read Plato which i wish to do, hope to read it soon, but one of my book loves is the Cicero trilogy by richard harris...and regarding Plato it is a fav :-
Nam Catonem nostrum non tu amas plus quam ego;sed tamen ille optimo animo utens et summa fide nocet interdum rei publicae; dicit enim tamquam in Platonis polteia, non tamquam in Romuli faexe, sentiam
or as translated :-
As for our friend Cato, I have as warm a regard for him as you. But the fact remains that with all his patriotism and intregrity he is sometimes a political liability. He speaks in the senate as though he were living in Plato's Republic rather than Romulus's shithole.
{Cicero, letter to Atticus , 3June 60BC]
the mind still boggles that the american legal system cant judge a leader that once chanced a insurrection against the government threatening a overturning of the state...and you cant bring him to trial after 3 years? i mean the english legal system is slow but at least we would get a trial of such magnitude done? what has happened to the american can-do attitude? [sighs] :(
Defense attorneys also have that can-do attitude.
a great episode this week , especially about the protests which is a fraught , delicate issue, i think this was discussed well , with all relevant points covered giving a good all round take on this very complex issue - bravo! :)
it was always said that in the coldwar that the americans had the technological edge but the soviets had the edge in people/person analysis and the spycraft to move things....that said in this new age of media...it does rather play to russian strenghts :(