Nick Grossman joins the group to discuss Biden's exit and Harris's rise, her strengths and weaknesses, VP possibilities, GOP blues, and Bibi's speech and protests.
I love you guys at the Bulwark, but I have to disagree about Shapiro.
Full disclosure; I am from Kentucky.
The Case for Andy Beshear
I think Andy would be the better choice.
My reasoning goes this way.
Andy has no national baggage. Shapiro is very pro Israel and as such is perceived to be anti-Palestine.
Like it or not the left and the right have issues with Jewish People. It's not right but that's the world we live in, as you always say. Andy is Christian and will appeal to Christian voters as well as the lefties.
Andy is pro teacher and education. Shapiro has issues with teachers nationally.
Andy is pro-choice.
As all the ladies on the Bulwarks have said, Andy is handsome.
Andy wouldn't show up Presidential Nominee, Vice President Harris in any way.
From what I understand they have a prior relation ship due to his being a State Attorney General.
Andy is out campaigning hard for Vice President Harris.
Andy is the best foil for Vance as Andy is actually from Kentucky and Vance isn't really.
You guys talk about how he's a legacy and that's why he wins in KY. Andy wins in Kentucky not because he's a legacy, but rather because, believe it or not, Kentucky doesn't really like Republicans. Just check Kentucky History since the 1970's and you'll see that almost all of our governors have been democrats.
Andy could deliver Kentucky for Vice President Harris..
Exactly why do you think Mitch McConnell keeps getting elected in Kentucky? It's because he was the Senate Majority Leader and then the Senate Minority Leader. People from Kentucky like to vote for people from Kentucky no matter their political ideologies.
I vote for Mitch because Mitch is from Kentucky and he is powerful. Why would I trade out the Senate Majority/Minority Leader for a green, no powered, senator? That wouldn't make any sense.
Kentuckians would vote for a Harris/Andy ticket just because he's from Kentucky and the one's who wouldn't would vote for him just to get him out as governor. Also think of this slogan Harris/Andy combined are Handy; just a dash of humour.
Andy has revitalized Kentucky's economy in ways that haven't been done since Martha Layne Collins was governor. in fact he's recently returned from a trip to Japan where he is still working to bring more business into our state.
Andy handled COVID better than any of the other governors in the country and brought Kentucky out of COVID and into an economic boom!
Shapiro rebuilt a bridge? Good on him.
Andy is rebuilding the flood torn eastern part of our state, and the tornado ravaged western part of our state as well as taking care of Kentucky infrastructure and getting raises for our teachers. Think on that for a bit.
Andy won twice in, as Sarah recently said, a blood red state. This shows two things. That he can beat republicans and that people up north don't really know Kentucky and the people who live here.
Why don't you guys actually look into Andy and Kentucky and see what we have to offer. I think that you'd be surprised.
So interesting for Mona to qualify her feminism after coming out early - and on stage at at CPAC - as anti Trump on the basis of his overt misogyny. Mona, that act of moral clarity and bravery is an impressive and selfless act of true feminism that many of us only aspire to. A million times, thank you!
Nick, there is no excuse for continuing to mispronounce the vice president’s first name. It makes you sound ignorant.
If Damon thinks the VP slightly behind is the “new normal” she’s already pulled it there. In five days.
Registration was up 700% by Tuesday. 83% of those registered are between 18 and 39. They didn’t register to vote for Trump. The uncommitted vote is now down to 8%.
She supports abortion. That’s going to be the #1 issue this election. It’s not as though women forgot about it.
Fracking is to Pennsylvania what ethanol is to Iowa. It directly affects the income of a large minority of voters, so it will matter a lot in that state.
My point is this election isn’t going to be decided on issues. It will be decided on identity. If someone chooses to vote for Trump because of fracking they were never going to vote for Kamala. That’s like someone on the left saying they can’t vote for Kamala because she jailed too many people who bought/sold weed. TRUE. However they are looking for an excuse to NOT vote for her…and you can find an issue with any candidate.
A perfect example of this are the people at the dispatch and NRO who couldn’t vote for Biden because of age. FAIR. Candidate becomes Kamala now they can’t vote for her because of fracking…or too liberal…or from sf. They are just making excuses to do what they wanted to do anyway.
There are many people in Pennsylvania and elsewhere who don’t and won’t follow politics closely. If Harris wants to abolish fracking that alone may be a reason to vote for Trump. I wonder what Harris really believes? Many of her remarks in the 2019 primary were more nuanced than they appear from the clips.
The administration where she is the VP has expanded fracking. She said it 5 years ago. She said 2 days ago she isn’t against fracking.
My point is that people will make an excuse why they were going to vote against Kamala but if it’s fracking or she is black or she is from California they weren’t ever going to vote for her.
You could not be more wrong. It's like you have zero understanding of what is important to people. For most voters, identity is a luxury they can vote on when nothing important is on the ballot. When a policy that directly affects the voter's own job is on the ballot, that will ALWAYS trump everything else. And a lot of jobs in Pennsylvania depend on fracking - enough jobs to swing a close election.
Bruce 13m people live in Pennsylvania. 220k work across ALL energy sectors (including coal, gas, oil, fracking and transportation). More jobs have been created in EV AND OIL/GAS since Biden/harris took office. So according to you…shouldn’t they all be thankful and vote in Kamala?
Did you not read the nyt story about the guy that was unemployed for 2 years that got a job at a brand new EV plant that was funded by the infrastructure bill but wasn’t voting for Biden because of traffic due to the massive amount of building that was happening because of the infrastructure bill? So you are saying that people doing nonsensical things won’t or don’t happen?
Kamala already came out and said she isn’t for banning fracking so obviously these people won’t hold what she said against her 5 years ago given how many energy jobs her and Biden created?
If you don’t get what I am saying than I don’t know what to tell you. Do you know how many republicans in poor states who are poor and vote against their own interests all the time? Literally Medicaid expansion in red states helped tons of white people and they voted against it all the time.
Lololol. I mean it isn’t a great policy!!! However, anyone who ever thought this election will be about “policy” is insane. I hope Kamala wins and I think Dems have a good chance to win the house but they are fucked in the senate, in my mind, no matter what.
I am saddened by the reservations expressed about having Josh Shapiro on the ticket, that the hardcore pro-Palestinian constituency must be appeased. I agree with Linda (as usual) that the Democrats cannot afford to lose their Jewish support. And I agree with Bill, a Jewish VP would "put paid to" the antisemitism on the left.
Excoriating the "Genocide Josh" fringe, not appeasing them, would help Harris with the center. The ticket needs balance, and Harris needs to demonstrate leadership. The pro-Palestinian protesters are in need of a correction by a leader. Biden did not provide that leadership.
As a Jew, I don’t want Shapiro. That’s not an appeasement of pro-Hamas lunatics, it’s a desire that he not be harmed by pro-Hamas lunatics. We are in a terrifying atmosphere for Jews right now. You can trust me on this.
I think you’ll hear a lot more about it than you did in 2020, given the current era, but he’s not running for leadership. He probably doesn’t merit violence, with the caveat that he’s married to a Black/Asian woman who is running for leadership.
Kevin dems win 78% of the Jewish vote. Literally in every election. The Democratic Party is literally the party of the Jews. It doesn’t have to give a blank check to Israel to be supportive of Israel and of the Jewish people. I literally never understand your pounding dems on the Jewish question when (1) Jews support dems 3:1 and (2) that the right has full throated antisemitics in their party. Why do you never ever bring them up? Why don’t you ever bring up that Trump literally had dinner with a full throated antisemitic
In the recent French election, holocaust survivor and Nazi hunter Serge Klarsfeld endorsed National Rally because he found them less antisemitic than the leftist France Unbowed. In the 2020 UK election, Labour lost in large part because of Jeremy Corbyn's extremism, which included a streak of antisemitism. The rise of antisemitism on the American left is part of a worldwide drift.
Wait you are talking about the rise of antisemitism worldwide…from the left????? Have you seen the right in Europe??? Bruce are you paying any attention to what is actually happening in Europe? Because this statement is laughable. Literally would you like me to tell you about most of the rightwing parties winning actual power in Europe or will you just spend a little of time researching what is happening in France, Italy, Hungary, Germany (af is surging), sweeden, Netherlands, etc.
Come on Bruce at least do a bit of research for posting something so dumb
We already know Trump is abhorrent. He's doesn't hide it. He's scary. But when the good people start tacitly excusing their own tribe's fringe, that's an order of magnitude scarier.
The rank antisemitism from the left has given many pause. And one need not be Jewish to be repulsed by it. Polling data earlier this year showed Trump gaining ground with Jewish voters. It may be closer to 2.5:1. It's parity in NY state where Trump already has a lock on orthodox Jews.
In 2020, the swings states were won by a few tens of thousands of voters. Your ratios being off slightly could result in defeat. Literally.
Really? Who in the party is antisemitic? You keep making statements that are based on twitter memes and protests. Most of those people aren’t voting for Biden or Kamala or dems. Why don’t you see that? They are literally protesting a DEMOCRATIC president!!!!
They were on the news all last spring. Did you miss them? I know there was plenty of riffraff entering the university campuses, but I'd wager most of those students were registered Democrats. Most were probably decent. But they knowingly enabled the indecent.
Wait the people demonstrating against Joe Biden policies are…Dems? Why aren’t they republicans? Were they wearing dem jackets? Or is anyone that protests Israel just a dem no matter what? Your basic premise is that because Dems are less likely to let bibi and the settlers attack Palestinians that anyone who protests Israel is, by definition a dem. Talk about an argument that can’t be refuted. Were the neonazis in Nashville last week Dems too?
The keffiyeh Karins were not Republicans. Just stop. They were bona fide leftists. Many were Democrats. Most were probably Democrats. I've argued with many I know for a fact are Democrats. Maybe some are independent. But they are way to my left. Their bond with the Palestinians is predicated on their perception that the Jews are oppressing them. They are locked in to this oppressor-oppressed false dichotomy. It's a fixation for them. I'm pretty sure the "Queers for Palestine" ilk are not Republicans. But they'll be voting for Harris. And that's fine. At this point, I want them to. But I'm extremely concerned about the surge in antisemitism American Jews have endured.
If the topic of this campaign brings up reparations, we are screwed. On Israel, I actually think adding Josh Shapiro to the ticket would be a major bonus. We need PA and even non-Jews are freaking out at the antisemitism on the left. As a non-Jew myself, my Blood Pressure reached new highs during the campus protests. I was pissed Biden didn’t come out sooner to stamp that sh$t down. Fetterman has been out front on this and his poll numbers increased by 7 percentage points.
This is one of my favorite Bulwark podcasts! I am exposed to viewpoints that are different from mine. These discussions add a lot of nuance to my own opinions. Looking forward to the future in the U.S. now!
I love you guys at the Bulwark, but I have to disagree about Shapiro.
Full disclosure; I am from Kentucky.
The Case for Andy Beshear
I think Andy would be the better choice.
My reasoning goes this way.
Andy has no national baggage. Shapiro is very pro Israel and as such is perceived to be anti-Palestine.
Like it or not the left and the right have issues with Jewish People. It's not right but that's the world we live in, as you always say. Andy is Christian and will appeal to Christian voters as well as the lefties.
Andy is pro teacher and education. Shapiro has issues with teachers nationally.
Andy is pro-choice.
As all the ladies on the Bulwarks have said, Andy is handsome.
Andy wouldn't show up Presidential Nominee, Vice President Harris in any way.
From what I understand they have a prior relation ship due to his being a State Attorney General.
Andy is out campaigning hard for Vice President Harris.
Andy is the best foil for Vance as Andy is actually from Kentucky and Vance isn't really.
You guys talk about how he's a legacy and that's why he wins in KY. Andy wins in Kentucky not because he's a legacy, but rather because, believe it or not, Kentucky doesn't really like Republicans. Just check Kentucky History since the 1970's and you'll see that almost all of our governors have been democrats.
Andy could deliver Kentucky for Vice President Harris..
Exactly why do you think Mitch McConnell keeps getting elected in Kentucky? It's because he was the Senate Majority Leader and then the Senate Minority Leader. People from Kentucky like to vote for people from Kentucky no matter their political ideologies.
I vote for Mitch because Mitch is from Kentucky and he is powerful. Why would I trade out the Senate Majority/Minority Leader for a green, no powered, senator? That wouldn't make any sense.
Kentuckians would vote for a Harris/Andy ticket just because he's from Kentucky and the one's who wouldn't would vote for him just to get him out as governor. Also think of this slogan Harris/Andy combined are Handy; just a dash of humour.
Andy has revitalized Kentucky's economy in ways that haven't been done since Martha Layne Collins was governor. in fact he's recently returned from a trip to Japan where he is still working to bring more business into our state.
Andy handled COVID better than any of the other governors in the country and brought Kentucky out of COVID and into an economic boom!
Shapiro rebuilt a bridge? Good on him.
Andy is rebuilding the flood torn eastern part of our state, and the tornado ravaged western part of our state as well as taking care of Kentucky infrastructure and getting raises for our teachers. Think on that for a bit.
Andy won twice in, as Sarah recently said, a blood red state. This shows two things. That he can beat republicans and that people up north don't really know Kentucky and the people who live here.
Why don't you guys actually look into Andy and Kentucky and see what we have to offer. I think that you'd be surprised.
So interesting for Mona to qualify her feminism after coming out early - and on stage at at CPAC - as anti Trump on the basis of his overt misogyny. Mona, that act of moral clarity and bravery is an impressive and selfless act of true feminism that many of us only aspire to. A million times, thank you!
Nick, there is no excuse for continuing to mispronounce the vice president’s first name. It makes you sound ignorant.
Was bothered by Nick’s mispronunciation as well. Agree with your assessment.
From his description of the 2020 primary it’s clear Damon has never heard of Pete Buttigieg.
ICE is terrible. She wasn’t wrong.
If Damon thinks the VP slightly behind is the “new normal” she’s already pulled it there. In five days.
Registration was up 700% by Tuesday. 83% of those registered are between 18 and 39. They didn’t register to vote for Trump. The uncommitted vote is now down to 8%.
She supports abortion. That’s going to be the #1 issue this election. It’s not as though women forgot about it.
Excellent episode, I look forward to Beg to Differ every Friday. Thank you Mona and everyone for never disappointing.
Trump says something everyday or online that should be political baggage come on.
If someone doesn’t vote for Kamala and they say it is her position on fracking…they were never ever going to vote for Kamala
Fracking is to Pennsylvania what ethanol is to Iowa. It directly affects the income of a large minority of voters, so it will matter a lot in that state.
Btw…if this were really true a lot of voters in Iowa wouldn’t have voted for Trump and yet…
My point is this election isn’t going to be decided on issues. It will be decided on identity. If someone chooses to vote for Trump because of fracking they were never going to vote for Kamala. That’s like someone on the left saying they can’t vote for Kamala because she jailed too many people who bought/sold weed. TRUE. However they are looking for an excuse to NOT vote for her…and you can find an issue with any candidate.
A perfect example of this are the people at the dispatch and NRO who couldn’t vote for Biden because of age. FAIR. Candidate becomes Kamala now they can’t vote for her because of fracking…or too liberal…or from sf. They are just making excuses to do what they wanted to do anyway.
There are many people in Pennsylvania and elsewhere who don’t and won’t follow politics closely. If Harris wants to abolish fracking that alone may be a reason to vote for Trump. I wonder what Harris really believes? Many of her remarks in the 2019 primary were more nuanced than they appear from the clips.
The administration where she is the VP has expanded fracking. She said it 5 years ago. She said 2 days ago she isn’t against fracking.
My point is that people will make an excuse why they were going to vote against Kamala but if it’s fracking or she is black or she is from California they weren’t ever going to vote for her.
You could not be more wrong. It's like you have zero understanding of what is important to people. For most voters, identity is a luxury they can vote on when nothing important is on the ballot. When a policy that directly affects the voter's own job is on the ballot, that will ALWAYS trump everything else. And a lot of jobs in Pennsylvania depend on fracking - enough jobs to swing a close election.
Bruce 13m people live in Pennsylvania. 220k work across ALL energy sectors (including coal, gas, oil, fracking and transportation). More jobs have been created in EV AND OIL/GAS since Biden/harris took office. So according to you…shouldn’t they all be thankful and vote in Kamala?
Did you not read the nyt story about the guy that was unemployed for 2 years that got a job at a brand new EV plant that was funded by the infrastructure bill but wasn’t voting for Biden because of traffic due to the massive amount of building that was happening because of the infrastructure bill? So you are saying that people doing nonsensical things won’t or don’t happen?
Kamala already came out and said she isn’t for banning fracking so obviously these people won’t hold what she said against her 5 years ago given how many energy jobs her and Biden created?
If you don’t get what I am saying than I don’t know what to tell you. Do you know how many republicans in poor states who are poor and vote against their own interests all the time? Literally Medicaid expansion in red states helped tons of white people and they voted against it all the time.
I spent an hour today arguing with some guy who thought her position on fracking is really going to harm her🙄. An hour I’ll never get back.
Lololol. I mean it isn’t a great policy!!! However, anyone who ever thought this election will be about “policy” is insane. I hope Kamala wins and I think Dems have a good chance to win the house but they are fucked in the senate, in my mind, no matter what.
I think we monsoon the House and keep the Senate. It’s the first national election since Dobbs. No woman has forgotten.
We shall see. I hope you are right
I am saddened by the reservations expressed about having Josh Shapiro on the ticket, that the hardcore pro-Palestinian constituency must be appeased. I agree with Linda (as usual) that the Democrats cannot afford to lose their Jewish support. And I agree with Bill, a Jewish VP would "put paid to" the antisemitism on the left.
Excoriating the "Genocide Josh" fringe, not appeasing them, would help Harris with the center. The ticket needs balance, and Harris needs to demonstrate leadership. The pro-Palestinian protesters are in need of a correction by a leader. Biden did not provide that leadership.
As a Jew, I don’t want Shapiro. That’s not an appeasement of pro-Hamas lunatics, it’s a desire that he not be harmed by pro-Hamas lunatics. We are in a terrifying atmosphere for Jews right now. You can trust me on this.
What about the fact the Kamala's husband is Jewish?
I think you’ll hear a lot more about it than you did in 2020, given the current era, but he’s not running for leadership. He probably doesn’t merit violence, with the caveat that he’s married to a Black/Asian woman who is running for leadership.
It’s all a horrible mess.
Kevin dems win 78% of the Jewish vote. Literally in every election. The Democratic Party is literally the party of the Jews. It doesn’t have to give a blank check to Israel to be supportive of Israel and of the Jewish people. I literally never understand your pounding dems on the Jewish question when (1) Jews support dems 3:1 and (2) that the right has full throated antisemitics in their party. Why do you never ever bring them up? Why don’t you ever bring up that Trump literally had dinner with a full throated antisemitic
In the recent French election, holocaust survivor and Nazi hunter Serge Klarsfeld endorsed National Rally because he found them less antisemitic than the leftist France Unbowed. In the 2020 UK election, Labour lost in large part because of Jeremy Corbyn's extremism, which included a streak of antisemitism. The rise of antisemitism on the American left is part of a worldwide drift.
Wait you are talking about the rise of antisemitism worldwide…from the left????? Have you seen the right in Europe??? Bruce are you paying any attention to what is actually happening in Europe? Because this statement is laughable. Literally would you like me to tell you about most of the rightwing parties winning actual power in Europe or will you just spend a little of time researching what is happening in France, Italy, Hungary, Germany (af is surging), sweeden, Netherlands, etc.
Come on Bruce at least do a bit of research for posting something so dumb
We already know Trump is abhorrent. He's doesn't hide it. He's scary. But when the good people start tacitly excusing their own tribe's fringe, that's an order of magnitude scarier.
The rank antisemitism from the left has given many pause. And one need not be Jewish to be repulsed by it. Polling data earlier this year showed Trump gaining ground with Jewish voters. It may be closer to 2.5:1. It's parity in NY state where Trump already has a lock on orthodox Jews.
In 2020, the swings states were won by a few tens of thousands of voters. Your ratios being off slightly could result in defeat. Literally.
Really? Who in the party is antisemitic? You keep making statements that are based on twitter memes and protests. Most of those people aren’t voting for Biden or Kamala or dems. Why don’t you see that? They are literally protesting a DEMOCRATIC president!!!!
They were on the news all last spring. Did you miss them? I know there was plenty of riffraff entering the university campuses, but I'd wager most of those students were registered Democrats. Most were probably decent. But they knowingly enabled the indecent.
Wait the people demonstrating against Joe Biden policies are…Dems? Why aren’t they republicans? Were they wearing dem jackets? Or is anyone that protests Israel just a dem no matter what? Your basic premise is that because Dems are less likely to let bibi and the settlers attack Palestinians that anyone who protests Israel is, by definition a dem. Talk about an argument that can’t be refuted. Were the neonazis in Nashville last week Dems too?
The keffiyeh Karins were not Republicans. Just stop. They were bona fide leftists. Many were Democrats. Most were probably Democrats. I've argued with many I know for a fact are Democrats. Maybe some are independent. But they are way to my left. Their bond with the Palestinians is predicated on their perception that the Jews are oppressing them. They are locked in to this oppressor-oppressed false dichotomy. It's a fixation for them. I'm pretty sure the "Queers for Palestine" ilk are not Republicans. But they'll be voting for Harris. And that's fine. At this point, I want them to. But I'm extremely concerned about the surge in antisemitism American Jews have endured.
If the topic of this campaign brings up reparations, we are screwed. On Israel, I actually think adding Josh Shapiro to the ticket would be a major bonus. We need PA and even non-Jews are freaking out at the antisemitism on the left. As a non-Jew myself, my Blood Pressure reached new highs during the campus protests. I was pissed Biden didn’t come out sooner to stamp that sh$t down. Fetterman has been out front on this and his poll numbers increased by 7 percentage points.
This is one of my favorite Bulwark podcasts! I am exposed to viewpoints that are different from mine. These discussions add a lot of nuance to my own opinions. Looking forward to the future in the U.S. now!