In the inaugural episode of FYPod, Tim Miller and Cameron Klasky react to idolization of weirdos like Andrew Tate among Gen Z males, while Cam explains why Democrats can’t be cool and crash the Daytona 500 like Donald Trump just did.
Then, digital activist and artist Dylan Geick joins Tim and Cam to discuss the pivot among the young male demographic towards Trumpism and authoritarians, when “radicalization” really occurs for politically engaged new adults, and why the Democrats need good looking male advocates to win elections.
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Love the pod! Gen X mom here, with a Gen Z daughter and Millennial stepdaughters. Keep the conversations coming.
Listened to the kickoff show and made it to 9:30 this episode, this one isn't going to be for me. Hope someone can get something out of this.
Loved this Pod and enlightening look at Gen Z! More..
I need this— a great way to broach politics with my son.
My favorite part of this podcast was Tim giggling in the background. We are taking our anxiety pills on air and our mics are tin cans. This is exactly who we need to be talking with since Gen Z is the future whether you like it or not. Thanks Tim for being the change!
Cam is fab additional to Bulwark team. As a way to haze both him and the rest of the Bulwark team require each person with a podcast to do one show with him. Cam and Mona would be the ultimate bell curve, it could be one of Sarah’s best Focus Groups and I am curious what type of combustion would occur if he sat down with JVL for an hour. Everyone deserves some Cam - in a very non-sexual way :)
This conversation tracks with other views I am hearing across the spectrum. Kara Swisher needs to get you Scott Galloway’s contact info. He is successful business guy, teaches at NYU, finger on the markets but his focus is helping young men be the best they can be with a masculine approach.
AGREED!
I'd love to see Cam and Bill chat about old vs new takes on foreign policy for example
Scott Galloway is AMAZING!!! He would be fantastic, especially on the Focus Group pod.
His Pivot co-host, Kara Swisher is on Focus Group tomorrow. Scott has a really great approach to this very real issue. Young men deserve more empathy and support than they are getting. Scott would probably love talking to Cam (oh yeah and Tim too :))
Looks maxing… 🤮. I am pretty sure that 20 something women don’t notice your jaw line if you are MAGA (assuming they are not also MAGA).
“radicalized because somebody was sexy” (and they wanted to hook up with them). 🤣. In other news: I’m afraid this podcast might support some of MAGA boomers’ beliefs about the young. 😬
Gen X here, and thoroughly enjoyed this. Looking forward to the next episode!
I'm Gen X, no kids (an evil cat lady) and this is content I absolutely want to hear. If I live twenty to thirty more years this is the generation that will be in charge, and I want to hear what they have to say! Thanks for doing this, guys.
This is a great idea! Cameron sounds smart and funny. High hopes that he will help us old people not to stereotype Gen Z. I'm yet another OK Boomer, and I feel like a memory of VietNam can give us hope for now. Definite minority group, extreme fringes and silly people that could be used for discredit, we needed help to focus organizing and make it clear that the police were less attractive than us. We eventually succeeded - much too slowly, but we didn't all give up.
Ok, I did not know what to expect from this, but, OMG, my eyes are opened (Boomer with three woke sons in their 30s--I'm sending them all the link). Excellent first act
Yeah, I sent the link to my late Gen-X but-probably-more-aligned-with-Gen-Z-way-of-thinking son after I watched.
Woker than thee 🙏
Excellent start
I listened twice. Grandmother trying to understand my grandchildren’s perspectives - college students but informed largely by social media.
Took women centuries to find their voices - to see
Themselves as equals. I dont think Democratic Party nor women can hasten the process for men.
The last month feels like I stepped through the looking glass. What were the bro’s thinking? I found this podcast insightful in understanding Gen Z. It is thought provoking and educational for the middle-aged. I learned a new term, “red-pilled”. Unfortunately I know many being retired from law enforcement. Cam is smart, hilarious and entertaining—I got a kick out of him. Dylan is an interesting character, like a Byronic hero. I enjoyed the podcast, I think it’s a great idea and I look forward to future episodes.
This new pod is great Tim. I continue to be impressed with The Bulwark's reach and am thrilled that the Gen Z group (due to its many Trump votes) is now is a focus for the platform. People of my age are generalized as boomers, but technically we are Generation Jones, a mostly unrecognized group that came between boomers and Gen X. We just missed the amazing benefits that the boomers had, and we came of age during the time the U.S. was industrially hollowed out during the Nixon/Carter/Reagan1 years. Many of us, including me, were 1980 Reagan Democrats. A rogue group. I see this sentiment echoed in Gen Z, but as a much larger cohort.
Me too!
I also loved the pod. As a Boomer, I want to listen to this generation. They are the kids of our kids and our future. If we as a country are going to survive, we need to listen to each other. I agree with so much of what Dylan had to say. For example, who are our soldiers and how the military is often the only opportunity many see to their personal circumstances; or how the traditional workplace can and often is stifling. During the pandemic, we were able to explore diverse work options such as remote work. It allowed so many of us to find satisfying new ways of doing our jobs and management, for the most part, was willing to explore new ways with us. Even our environment improved: lower levels of pollution that brought back better work/life balance; no traffic jams, more time with family. Granted, there were challenges for those with school aged kids, for example, or for those whose jobs required to go in in person. But even a pandemic did not teach us anything. Trump, for example, is demanding that all government workers (at least the few remaining that have not been summarily fired without cause) to return to the office 100%. So there goes any flexibility in the workplace.
If a hot woke alpha male had run instead of Kamal, 47 would be history. Can we find one in the Democratic party?
Keep up the good work Tim and Cam. GenZ is a very important topic.
Have you seen Jack Schlossberg. He should be on the show.
Cameron’s point at the end about ‘two things being true at once’ is a thru line to all of this. Tim alluded to it at the beginning. Can’t we find someone to lead HHS who wants to take the crap out of our food but also is pro vaccine? Can’t we find a person who is for sensible taxes but not an authoritarian? We need to point these things out. That these things can exist. More of that bulwark! Interesting overall angle. Can’t say I loved the guest w his ‘I don’t participate in the system.’ ‘Non influencer influencer’. That’s not a thing. Influencing people to not be influenced is still influencing, but maybe in a more altruistic sense. Not participating in the system is a form of participation.
Anthropological - 🤣🤣
Regarding anti-Semitism - I never thought Biden was hugging Bibi; I viewed it as hugging the Israeli people, whom I don’t equate with their govt, much as I hope the world doesn’t judge all Americans based on that idiot who’s now in office
Omg.
I am really interested in hearing from younger people and a thoughtful discussion, but sorry, this was not it. Too little preparation. There was no journalistic straight line in the podcast and as a result way too long with too little substance for my taste. To me it came across like the typical teenager who talks before he thinks and believes he knows everything. For that I can talk with my son and do not have to spend over an hour listening.
I am not sure who the expected audience for the FYPodcast would be?
Sio far so great. I'm on the younger end of the Boomer age spectrum, ca. 1961. I will support anyone who's motivation is to get DJT to voluntarily step down, take it all back, and move AOC into the Whitehouse. Let's do this.
I taught high school and middle school kids my whole life. I just retired. These kids are the grown up version of the kids I taught. I loved everything about this podcast and have shared it and shared it. Kids WANT to be heard, validated, and seen, just like everyone else. Sometimes, it just takes a minute for them to get to the point. Tim is an excellent interviewer, and I’m looking forward to more.
60 year old white woman, mother of daughters here. I tuned in because I agree young males are struggling. I raised my daughters to be financially independent and to out perform their male counterparts. Part of me thinks we are seeing the backlash, but I also realize it’s probably much more complicated. I’m hoping to hear a myriad of perspectives, including what young women see is the problem.
Same. I'll listen, annoyed, but open to seeing this demographic differently.
You know I think there are a lot of older people in the same camp on many of these issues. I had to look the age designations up to confirm she's... So I'm boomer II and I have one gen x and 3 millennials. 2 of my kids are gay, one is just messed up but I'd have to say the ones that are the most clear headed and doing well are my gay kids. My background and exposure to nonconformists has shaped a lot of my gray thinking but the last 10-15 yrs in dialogue with our kids has helped me see their point of view and circumstances much better. I hope the FYPod grows exponentially as it is my firm belief that we need smart younger people in leadership or at a minimum as influencers to our way of governance. This is like many dialogues I've had with my son that we joked about having an online pod with.
Keep up the great work
I’m so happy you finished it. I thought it was refreshing.
Thanks for interesting conversation.
Michael Lewis has done an excellent podcast series - Against the Rules - on sports betting and its impact on young men. Young men seem to be intensely drawn to sports betting, crypto and porn. Could you at some point discuss the influence sports betting is having on young men today?
Good luck with the new pod.
A lot of concentration on physical appearance. Guys, you're going to age. Your penis will need chemical help and your jewels may be closer to your ankles. If you want to "get laid", think about how sexy a smart brain is. Loved the show.
Love Cam's dry humor. Enjoyed this episode. Learned a lot. May relisten.
Wow...71 year old, left of center boomer woman here. Great stuff. I've been listening to Scott Galloway for a few years and his narrative introduced me to some of these issues, but hearing it from and being informed by the guys living it...VERY different. Grateful for the opportunity to live and learn.
Great PodCast, really enjoyed it.
As a 60 year old mom, I think you're both really cute. And I think it's great to get a chance to hear from a variety of Gen Z voices - it's just a bonus that Cam is one of my favorite ones.
Loved this so much!!
Tim, thanks for mentoring this pod. We’ll never convert the unwashed MAGA, but there is hope of capturing a significant # of 18-30 YO voters. Especially those with 🍆’s.
Geick: (In high school) maybe (you are taught) that the Soviets killed a lot of people
Miller: They did
Geick: Well...okay...they did...through mismanagement
"Mismanagement"? This is so dumb it makes my head hurt.
You think Nascar is cool and “fancy nancy” Dems are not?!? Did you miss the Super Bowl and Grammys? I’ll take Kendrick Lamar for the win, thanks. Don’t confuse machismo with cool. And we don’t need to maximize pollution to have cool toys. See Harrison Ford in the electric Jeep commercial.
This was brilliant! Tim: You're so smart and well informed that you can suck the alr out of the room when you turn on that energy. Be gentle! Cameron: To me, you have a perfect amount of ADHD-ness, It's nothing like Trump's senile "weave" or Musk's face-lifted version of Emperor Palpatine. Dylan: In a better world, I want to _BE_ you. And though you'll likely hate this, you're givng early Jack Reacher in the best way.
I agree we need hot woke male leaders! And hot woke female leaders, too. We have to make being a Democrat sexy and cool! With some really good podcasts by cool people. The problem is, democracy, government and the US Constitution probably don't seem exciting or even interesting to younger people!
My husband was so confused listening to me listen to this. I think the whiplash between excitedly agreeing with "cars go vroom is badass" and being utterly repelled by a term like "anarchocommunist" was jarring for him. Ha! That's why we take in a variety of perspectives, darling :)
This was a really engaging format, really enjoyed the rapid fire conversation and learned a lot.
This was so illuminating…I think social media has been such a destructive force in our society. And my aging boomer heart goes out to the young men who are so isolated and unhappy and being so manipulated. The political leaders of both parties have big time failed us by not setting guardrails for massively manipulating social media.
I don’t understand why masculinity has to be so bound to the penis? If young men are not getting “laid” then they are not “masculine?” This whole concept of the “penis” defining masculinity is beyond my comprehension. That is probably because I am female! I don’t define myself by my vagina. I am much more than what I can produce from my uterus! Men in this society have viewed women as nothing more than a “fuck” or a “baby maker.” You (men) created that over centuries! Now that women are saying “fuck you,” you are not worthy of my time, for whatever reason, that makes you feel less masculine? So now society is saying that you have to meet these “standards” of what is “hot.” Let’s just say that women have been living with this for decades, and you are just beginning to feel what it’s like be on the receiving end! Enjoy. This from a retired grandmother
I struggle with this. Women have put up with so much shit. We’ve worked our asses off. Now for what is about 30 seconds in human history guys need to compete and they are crumbling. The best part of me says, “Oh. I don’t want anyone to hurt. Let’s work this out.” Another part says, “Quit taking your shit out on women. Step up and compete. Be better. Stop with all the talk of rape, violence, and putting women in their place. Stop trying to push them out of the workplace - especially tech - just so you can delude yourself into thinking you’re better than you are.”
I’d love us to find a way forward that doesn’t take from one group to give to another. I don’t see enough men in public forums open to that - I think because they are socialized to the alpha, win-lose, mindframe.
This has been going on for generations of American men. If Gen Z men want someone to be pissed at, they need to look at the men in their lives who taught them entitlement and varying degrees of misogyny from the ingrained casual to the outright hate-filled. We have a serious problem with men of all generations in this country. (No, not all men. The culture of men.)
The answer cannot be to make women less just to make men feel better.
Mothers of young men are a big factor, too. A few mothers of sons that I know have shared their anger at their sons being “held back” with women and minorities “taking the spots” their sons expected to have based on history vs. merit.
Another topic for the podcast: How many Millenial and Gen Z women are bisexual and choosing marriage and partnership with other women. It’s not all about looks or money, which is probably more of a male rationalization based on our culture. It’s partly because they don’t want to take on mothering or carrying these men and they’ve worked hard to be financially and emotionally independent enough not to have to.
Well… of course. Following your own logic, being told “fuck you,” you are not worthy of my time, IS in fact demeaning and bruising to anyone, and in this case particularly to impressionable and inexperienced young men who yearn for companionship (and I dare say to young women who yearn for the same). I’m constantly astounded by how modern liberal discourse - despite talking a good game about gender equality - seems to assume we boys don’t have feelings, or hearts, or emotions like the girls do. There is a way to communicate lack of interest with grace and compassion - and of course, men ought to communicate romantic or sexual interest in a courteous, unthreatening way as well. Also men must learn how to clock, instinctively, when there is no interest - though I regret to say, from experience, that takes years to develop. As you’re a grandmother, I’d be curious to hear if you remember a time where social norms and practices around courtship were (perhaps) a little healthier - less inflamed and polarized by social media, less fear and loathing, less “fuck you” (no, fuck YOU)”. Though your last section seems to hint you don’t have good memories of those days, either.
Awesome podcast. Very informative. Now on my list.
Love this! Yes, it’s science that makes cars go vroom. You can have it all.
I am so excited about this new pod. Such a burst of energy and unexpected communication style. And through it all, my maternal instincts kicked in and I just wanted to hug those sweet young guys! But seriously, I really really loved the show and the format. Can't wait for more.
I’m a 58 year old female. A physician and a mother of an almost 20 year old girl. Found the podcast super interesting, although there were times I couldn’t understand anything at all. Please explain more what certain terms mean. I guess I could understand most by context, but still would like to know what being red pilled means. Maybe the urban dictionary will help me.
Dylan's an interesting guy but It doesn't seem like he's thought thru what happens in the work world where one is not a solo entrepreuneur renting the internet platforms. Just how is any complex multiple person enterprise (esp if creating a physical thing or product, not just 'content') supposed to work if there is no hierarchy employees have to do what the person immediately above them says? OTOH, it's instructive to see a snapshot of at least one 'anti'-influencer's thought process.
Up your alley? Just saw, a bit late, this NYT piece on making it hip to be a young well-off MAGA: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/13/style/trump-maga-youth-republicans.html
Both Dylan and JVL realize that there are unserious voters - interesting to get the Gen Z perspective but not sure if I am encouraged by a generation of influencers.
So, I might just be an old guy, but these guys don't really reflect the Gen Zs I know, other than maybe the small subset who graduated HS during COVID AND (not or) who are terminally online. Dylan also reminded me of guys I used to hate standing watch with when I was in the military who just complained about a bunch of shit but had it better than 90% of their peers. I'm sure these guys reflect some subset of the generation, but I work with a lot of early-to-mid 20-somethings who seem like they come from a different universe than these guys.
Gen Xer here. Looking forward to more episodes! Cameron is great!
Gen X here and I listened to the whole pod, I found it interesting and hope you guys figure out a way to keep it going with Cameron.
Great show! Let me know when you want a Gen X woman to join the conversation!!!
This is going to be a great addition to The Bulwark's repertoire. Thanks for expanding our frame of reference. :)
Please try to have improv comedian Brennan Lee Mulligan on this podcast. While not a Gen Z person, Brennan Lee Mulligan has built a brand of comedy on authenticity and is one of the best to ever do it. In other podcasts with Brennan Lee Mulligan, he is very good at distilling the human condition and communicating why we should care about one another. I think he understands people, and especially young people, better than most while being someone people respect because he is seemingly always true to himself and the people he is entertaining.
Or having Sam Reich on the Pod, again not Gen Z, but someone who built a brand on authenticity and good moral values who can and practices being a "good person" in his public life. Sam Reich is the CEO of DropOut TV and has created a space for comedians who normally would be marginalized to have a huge platform.
Sorry Tim I mostly love everything you do but this was just bad. I’m a gen Xer and listened with my gen Z daughter and she agrees. Dylan was unserious at best. I love that you are honest with us so I’ll be honest with you this episode served nothing at all I don’t feel I learned anything from this.
I took that the unseriousness is a feature, not a bug. That knowledge has value if we're looking to change that attitude.
Fantastic show!
Young Bulwarker here - I was born in 1994 and my first vote was for Obama in 2012. I think I'm a small minority within this community in this respect. I also own a Discord server populated by Gen Zers which is mostly based around classical music, but we do discuss current events from time to time. My server is overwhelmingly Dem-leaning, with roughly a 50-50 gender ratio and half the server being LGBTQ+ (I've done demographic surveys).
Now for this podcast episode: Maybe this is just me and my experiences, but I can't identify with Dylan at all (which of course makes sense given that I'm here). That said, pretty much everything he and Cameron said are all things I've heard before regarding the "masculinity crisis". What I don't get is - why was I different? Why did I avoid both the far-right *and* the woke left, the latter of which was the predominant type I dealt with when I was in school? And why wasn't I driven towards MAGA by annoying woke types among my peers, who are cited as a huge reason for the redpilling of young men here? I'll admit, I was much more focused on being anti-woke in the mid-late 2010s, but I had never once considered supporting Trump. In fact, I saw being anti-woke and being anti-Trump as going hand-in-hand - my thesis has always been that we got Trump in the first place in part because of excessive wokeness in the late Obama years, and they are both part of the increasing insanity of politics.
Maybe this is a combination of being an immigrant who was taught to take responsibility for himself from a very young age (a bit too much in fact), work hard, advance yourself, etc. and being autistic. I also didn't have a father in the home. I also was shamed and bullied, at first for being a weird nerdy autistic kid and later for being skeptical of wokeness. I was arguably one of the prime demographics for being radicalized, and I probably would have been if not for my scientific training. I think for me, it was my ability to think through issues and do deep dives that saved me.
Now, for what I think is the general solution, and something that really would have helped guys in my situation? I think the key is to flood the zone with relatable content. Memes, short TikTok-style videos, etc. mocking MAGA, but also mocking the people who aggrieved these young men, such as these moralizing wokescolds. They need a place to land that is firmly opposed to the toxic woke rhetoric which also is opposed to MAGA. If MAGA is the only opposition to wokeness, that's where they'll be.
Interestingly, people like Jordan Peterson, Joe Rogan, and the rest of the IDW were this - they were places where aggrieved young men could land and find community that is hostile to wokeness that weren't uniformly MAGA at the time. The problem is that these people gained a lot of following from MAGAs too, and sort of led their followers into MAGA to chase those profits. But what got the attention of MAGAs in the first place was that they were being attacked even back then by progressives like the very ones in this community, and MAGAs saw an opportunity to recruit.
I think the moral of the story is that purity tests absolutely kill us politically. Progressives attacked so many non-MAGA content creators for being insufficiently progressive or “problematic” that they led their followers into MAGA out of spite. We have to understand that fundamentally, MAGA was built out of spite against woke moralizing - and they would have lost their power a long time ago if it weren't for woke activists fanning the flames. We have to court people opposed to and frustrated with woke moralizing and let them know they can be anti-woke and still be a liberal or at least not a MAGA, and more importantly, both MAGA and wokes/leftists are a bunch of losers who are uncool, full of beta cucks, etc. and that it's cool to be a liberal who strives for better in his life instead of being a whiny bitch like those wokes/leftists and MAGAs. We have to also stop language policing and allow a bit of “insensitive” language as well. We have to have that space and add to our coalition, instead of do what we've been doing and subtract from our coalition by casting large swathes of people as morally inferior because they're not the picture-perfect progressive.
I enjoyed the show and I’m glad you’re doing it and for focusing on younger men. I know it’s kind of forbidden to focus on men and their feelings and what they’re going through but we’re losing them to the dirtbags discussed in the pod.
The only real complaint was when a) the anarcho-communist gave credit to the Gaza ceasefire to trump and b) when the same guy talked a little reverently about Russia while not recognizing that Russia is an empire as well, and a much older one to boot.
Otherwise off to to a great start and I appreciated the new (to me at least) perspectives.
Omg Tim, I have to say this is one of the best pods you’ve ever done. So incredibly interesting and I learned so much about gen z!! And veterans! Wow great job, I cannot wait for more episodes. So smart 🥰
I’m a middle-aged 54 year old and I love this pod. Love the conversation. Where are Sam and JVL though? Great hearing a fresh perspective, especially by someone who is sharp and had me laughing. Man, I feel old though.
Omg, I'm learning so much! And look at the expanding reach of the Bulwark Universe!
Do the youths know who the parents of Gen Z are? It’s not millennials, but okay.
Wow! My mind blew, my ass twitched, and I have enough talking points til next podcast. Absolutely love this!!! Thanks for your good work here. (I’m a female Boomer with a lot to learn about our youngins.)
Skimming the comments it seems like many listeners were upset or disheartened that Dylan doesn't vote (yet). Some even stopped listening after he said that. WTF? I'm a boomer - even though I don't think people should be categorized by the year they were born - and I heard Dylan's non-voting stance as a call to action. He's caring, articulate, educated and YOUNG (and adorable) . Those of us who care about this country must find a way to reach out to him and his fellow non-voting Gen-Zs and help them understand that non-voting is what got us Trump. Boomers should keep listening to these young guys - and gals hopefully - and I loved this pod. They will listen to us too, if we can speak in the language they will hear.
I'm a boomer who threw away her vote after Ralph Nader during the Bush-Gore election because Patti Smith said so. Dylan's decision was more informed than that. As long as he stays curious & engaged, he's no-one to denigrate.
I threw my vote away on Nader in the Bush/Gore election, too, for similar reasons. Would never do something like that again (now I hold my nose and vote for the best option) but I was young and it felt like the right and “edgy” thing to do at the time. As long as you stay engaged and *reflect on your decisions* you learn not to waste your vote.
Agree. Doesn't anyone remember their existential angst of late teens/early 20s? No boomer ever wasted a vote on a 3rd party candidate that would never win? Me too Mary Christine on voting for Nader! Checking out of politics (and religion, etc) at that age is pretty typical. None of us at 50yrs old or 60, etc are exactly the same as we were when we were 20yrs old.
48 year old here ... first vote was for Perot because I felt cool voting third party. And that was about the depth of my consideration.
Wow. I don’t know what I was expecting but my head is exploding. But in a good way.
What bright, articulate, funny young men.
My son was born in 1995 so is at the older end of Gen Z. He graduated from university and was working in his first job before covid hit. Dylan and Cameron live an entirely different life from my son and his friends. These guys seem so much younger and unsettled. I was surprised to hear neither one mention covid as a disruptive force. I often wonder if social media would have had the same extreme negative effect had covid never happened.
I was disturbed by the fixation on appearance and the perceived power it carries. That’s sad.
I’m going to listen to this again with my 1995 son to get his perspective.I sat through Chapo Trap House with him so he owes me!
Boomer here, former teacher, so not unfamiliar with Gen Z but found myself fascinated by new perspectives. I always thought the white boys who felt left out were in Gen X. Sadly, it helps explain so much to hear how gender/minority tension continues. Much work ahead but the three of you added some calm by calling out who's thinking what. Thanks from Arizona.
🗿Spot on We need you guys to keep blasting the Blue message to Gen Z by any platform available Question ..,how to reach to brown young gen z males. They are identifying with white billionaires. 😱
Im 61 and LOVED IT! We need to hear from these kids. They ARE the future. Intelligent, funny and tell it like it is! GREAT JOB GUYS!
Wait... the anarchist who doesn't vote wants to regulate Grandma's Facebook feed? I'm confused. 😉
One of the most enlightening media experiences I have had in ages. I will come back for more. Thanks for bringing all that energy and openness. I like learning new stuff. And I like hearing silo free thinking.
Hey Tim, the Channel 4 UK poll is bullsh*t. It’s been debunked several times now. So your discussion wasn’t based on anything factual sorry! Also, we aren’t any more anti immigrant than you guys. Cheers!
Fascination stuff. I'm so far removed from Gen Z that it's like a foreign country. Appreciate the opportunity to "listen in" to this.
WOW - this was great. I really enjoyed this. Bring in some more young people!
I have a lot to learn from Gen Z. Says a 67 year old woman. I’m open to learning.
67 year old WF boomer. I hear ya. This is a GREAT editorial choice; truly enjoyed it. Also fun to see Tim (young enough to be my son) playing the role of elder statesman.
I know! I always think of Tim as being so young and then I see him with this kid and oh boy don't I feel old!
And, want to live at the economic level of their parents without working?
Tim, so glad you're bringing these young guys on. I like listening to what they have to say. I also realize that as much as things change, the more it stays the same. I felt disaffected when I was their age, too. They have a good DIY, F-You attitude. Love it! Keep it up!
I big "Thank You" to Tim, Cameron, and Dylan. I've been asking my 19 year old son many of the topics you've addressed on this podcast, as well as friends. I still didn't have much clarity with many of the answers I was receiving, but have much more after listening to this. For some people, this may be too jarring, self-centered, unserious etc (according to some of the comments below). To me, I think it can be all of those things while being insightful, informative, and real, and that's what makes it a true window into a generation I want to understand more. I think these pro/cons (and many more) accurately represent the generation itself. I will be listening weekly, have already shared this and cant wait for the next one.
I’m enjoying the F-You Pod so far.
As an older white woman, I have been mystified and horrified by what is going on with young men, so I think this is an important podcast, even it it's not really to my taste. I hope that you will include young men who are black and brown, who are rural and working class, and from different parts of the country.
At some point, either Cam or Dylan touched on a point that I have wondered about for a long time, which is our entertainment culture, and not just gaming. Superhero movies, every violent television show--they are all extremely Manichean. There's Right and Wrong, and the (usually) guy who is Right is justified in his use of violence to punish the Wrong. It may not be new to humans, especially Americans, but it's pervasive, and you can just look at the bulking up of humans and robots and superheroes to see that it's all part of conflating masculinity with anger, violence and emotional rather than rational behavior.
I am a 71 yo White, straight Boomer. I am a JFK liberal (look up the quote if you are interested) and we are a family of "awake" people. I am really glad I listened to the discussion today. I am not the typical septuagenarian. I am a Dad of a millennial and two Gen Zs. All three of my "kids" are college-educated, smart, intelligent, and informed. One works very hard in a traditional job. Another is trying to figure out how to live her dream, and the other is in her last semester of college. While I get good-natured putdowns about being an old guy, and "Did they have tvs back then," my daughters respect my experiences, knowledge, and opinions. I really enjoy talking with the Gen Z people who I get to meet through my daughters. They are good folks. Here's my bottom line on kids today. They will eventually figure shit out. Just like I did. BUT, in their defense, I do believe it was a lot easier for me to figure things out in the 1970s than it is a half century later for them in a technocentric society.
Serious people do vote
That "socialism" trope is widespread throughout the "older" generation.
As a father of a 13 year old boy, this discussion felt relevant. His older sister is 15 and this past election pretty much swung her firmly into the Dem camp (it's a special moment when your kid can launch un-prompted into a tirade on how Trump has bad tax policy). But not sure were my son will end up. The bro culture is real ... and pod like this gives me some insight into what he's probably picking up just by going to school and having friends.
And I would like to say, you can't really stop it. Growing up in the 80s & 90s, there was plenty of misogynist-lite "bro culture" for lack of a better term. The thing is, it happened off-line, and certainly didn't cross over into politics--because that was for old people.
Comments on this are as interesting as the pod itself. I think any one who is dismissing these two guys should listen harder if they want to understand where we're going. Young people are fiery, and snarky, and shocking ... par for the course. I'd be concerned if they weren't.
very interesting look into the Nascar event. As an 81 year old woman -- we are witnessing the return of what we had in my youth --not pretty, not good for women, not good for LGBTQ -- It feels good to boys and men...Scary to me for sure.
That was a fascinating window into the dysfunction and disillusionment of Gen Z. It’s another sign of how American culture is in serious decline.
I hope Tim starts asking these Gen Zers how they feel about our $150 trillion in SS and Medicare unfunded liabilities. Do they understand they are going to be paying big taxes to support the boomers?
Cameron's All About Me is my favorite part that is so Gen Z! Ha!!
Fascinating & fun (I'm Gen Jones).
Looking forward to hearing more
Great
Wow Tim, your cinematic lighting in the beginning is…cinematic lol. I enjoyed the different vibe.
I watched this out of curiosity and in the history of all the things I’ve consumed from the Bulwark, this is the least for me. By like a wide margin. With a full body shudder. But I hope Cameron is successful with his goals for this with the intended audience!
I was going to lead with the fact I'm a Boomer, but I see I'm not the first. I love this new effort. Please keep it up. Hope you get the audience you deserve -- a big one!
As a younger Boomer, I now see why our parents found us so bewildering. I do feel hopeful that Gen Z might finally be as activist as Boomers were. And one piece of advice: get out into the real world and get rid of the smart phone.
I learned from Cameron and Dylan - interesting. But Dylan broke my heart with his defeatist perspective and abdication of his right to vote. His voice is needed. So bright and historically literate. Thanks for bringing us this.
BTW, I am a near 70 year old Boomer. ❤️
Love this new podcast! 69-year-old female mostly liberal wanting to learn about Gen z. Keep it coming.
Will continue to listen. Agreeing or disagreeing isn’t my goal. Learning and understanding is. Hopefully, it will lead to moving forward.- Boomer/Generation Jones fan
I am a senior and I do fact check...a lot!!
I’m confused at the serving 18 months thing.
But he did nail the apolitical nature of a lot of combat arms service members and veterans.
I thought this was excellent! I'm a Millennial (but born in 1982 so I didn't have a cell phone until I graduated highschool). My sons were born in 2002 & 2003 so these guys are just slightly older. There were several things they said that I've heard my youngest & my oldest talk about (they have completely opposite political views, well opposite but still within the "norms", they both vote). It was great to get some insight into their minds because, I'm sure most parents understand that my kids aren't jumping at the opportunity to sit down & explain their generation to me.
For example, my youngest, who actually is somewhere on the Left spectrum, joined the ROTC program at his highschool. He worked really hard, Mon-Fri 5am-5pm was his school day for 4 years, he was extremely dedicated. He wanted to have a career in the military. He became the CO for his senior year & was awarded a $160,000 ROTC scholarship for the Marines ROTC. He chose to go to Mizzou but he could've gone to any university that had a Navy Marine ROTC program.
I should've been concerned when he chose Marines instead of Navy (even though his highschool program was Navy) because he didn't want to go into engineering. He struggled with attending classes & keeping his grades up (never was an issue until after COVID) but I thought the ROTC was going well. He, also, frequently said he was a-political & that he just wanted to kill people. I was relieved to hear another kid around his age say that same thing.
Then suddenly, he's home for Christmas break, he goes out with his 2 best friends, who are pretty progressive not that that had anything to do with it) & came back home pretty upset. He wouldn't give me details but they had said something to him about the military & it really impacted him. He, to this day, has never told me about the conversation.
All I know is that Spring 2024 semester when he went back to school was a struggle. He was depressed, he was missing class again (this was his 4th semester) & he really struggled to get through it. He did his summer ROTC program like he was supposed to but something was off.
Suddenly, it's time for him to go back for fall semester & he informs me he thinks he's dropping out. He doesn't want to go to college anymore, he absolutely does not want to go into the military either. Which, I never pushed him to do so. Other than my father in law who fought in Vietnam who has since passed away, we're not a military family. I love the military & I have been so proud of him. But, this was always his decision.
It was just such a sudden & strange change. He wasn't just doing it to get a scholarship, he was passionate about it. His whole room displayed medals & challenge coins & signa he's received & collected. Passwords & nicknames & everything was dedicated to this goal.
Then, suddenly, he just changed his mind. He said that the military isn't what he thought it was. I asked what that meant & he wouldn't give me anymore than that. He still follows the ROTC on Instagram & likes all their posts. But, he dropped out at the start of last fall & to this day I have not been able to understand why.
This podcast today has given me a little more understanding. I mean, it's really fascinating how uniquely different Gen Z is, even from Millennials. My mom was born in 1962 & our childhoods were fairly similar. Not exactly alike but there was no social media when I was in highschool. So, it was a lot of the same.
These kids, it's so completely different. Their mindset is so different. My son has decided he wants to be a chef. Very different from the military. I was skeptical but he seems to think this is a very plausible idea. But, apparently like other kids close to his age, he is ok with figuring it out as he goes.
My oldest is a Trump supporter, he works out & is about to turn 23 & has this big full bushy beard. He is kind of obsessed with masculinity. He has all those characteristics that were mentioned in the podcast.
I think this is going to be a great podcast! I'm really excited for more! Not just for more insight into my own son's but we need to bring in the youth. I'm going to send this episode to my youngest & have him watch it. I think he'll enjoy it.
You’re a lot closer in age to your kids than I am to mine. Your mom was born in 1962–I’m 1957 and my eldest is 1995 which makes him an older Gen Z.
While not always the oldest mom in the class, I was certainly up there. I think that’s why I really enjoy listening to the perspectives of young people. It kinda bridges the age gap.
Interesting story. Interesting because your son's trajectory was almost identical to mine when I was his age (we're talking about late '50s-early '60s). Hope he finds his path.
this was great!
“Anti-influencer Influencer” is my new favorite term.
Is that like influencing ironically?😉
Gotta love Gen Z’s way of rebel rousing- out influencing those “real” influencers…
Sadly, like all young people do and did, they sneer (sometimes too smugly) at those generations who came before them. As as a former high school history teacher and one who lived on military bases growing up in the Vietnam War era, we lived through extremes. We were also trying to change the world.
Our mothers were horrified that we wore jeans and braless halter tops. We were horrified at their drinking and spare-rod-spoil-the-child view of child discipline.
Most mothers didn't work. Valium and speed was rampant. We dreamed of college or any other job that would get us out into the world on our own.
They buried their sons from a horrible and stupid war. We buried our friends from a horrible virus that political leaders were deliberately ignoring.
They watched the 6:00 evening news and shook their heads. We marched. Oh how we marched. The Vietnam War, womens Rights, legalization of weed, farmworker rights, LGBT, AIDS virus. It seemed like the "this is fucked up" list was endless but we didn't see it that way.
They listened to Frank Sinatra and dreamed of marrying Elvis Presley. We listened to Led Zepplin and the Rolling Stones and went to all-day concerts with Fleetwood Mac headlining.
They fixed dinner, put bandaids on boo-boos, ironed everything and gossiped with the ladies on the block. We took birth control.
You want to learn some history Gen Z? Try talking to seniors. You might be surprised.
I remember thinking about older people and doing the rolling eyes whenever they were around and dared to speak to those of us that were young. Funny how much that amuses me now.
I think a lot of Boomer male Trumpers think a lot like the Gen Zs and incels. People haven’t talked as much about that. In the case of one 64 year old man that I know, I blame FB and lack of sex in a bad marriage. I also think they resent the hell out of strong women and the younger men who they see as having it so much easier than they did/do and who they think are getting all kinds of sex.
It is disheartening. But it sounds like you rose above it.
That’s a really interesting observation.
I should’ve included Gen X, too. I’m at the end of the Boomer era so most of my colleagues were Boomer and X. I worked in IT for almost 20 years in the first part of my career. I thought we had made a lot of progress until I saw that the guys I was working with every day were heading out to strip clubs at night (or at lunch). Last time I saw this firsthand was 2014 and the Gen X guys were showing the Millennial (maybe some Z?) guys that this was the way to be a man in business. I realized then that we were backsliding A LOT. Then Trump and all these resentful men came out of the woodwork. I know it’s not all men but the tolerance of such a low bar for men and the acceptance of “boys will be boys” is so disheartening.
Listening to how gen z thinks they're being exploited in the workplace confirmed my views of my younger co-workers. They think they've discovered something about the workplace, that it's exploitive. Some things never change... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf8-OWYnZxk
1. Hey Tim, 61 year old woman here and yes all you guys are cute. And…what’s with making a 62 year old woman someone to laugh at? Society - and this pod - says I’m old and maybe pathetic. That doesn’t make me delusional. (Half joking here. I’m not that fragile. And the crack was unnecessary and insulting.)
2. I cringed at the email announcing this podcast and thought I’d watch for two minutes and skip future episodes. Some rough edges to polish but very interesting. Directionally, I knew much of this but there were important points.
3. Parents and other adults seriously need to grow up, get off of social themselves, and turn this stuff around.
As someone who has to watch her own use of the f-bomb and who has a wide comfort zone around swearing in general, some of this language was so over the top it diminished the message and is itself part of the divide with Millenials, Gen Z and others in the population.
There are a few statements that were so freeze-inducing that it took me a few seconds to catch up with the conversation. The crassness around the way sex is discussed in our culture now is itself a normalized misogyny. Commoditization. It has served to diminish women even to themselves.
Bottom line: This can be a worthwhile - if bracing - watch.
I feel the dems are not good at being the badass sexy cool people most of the time, but not because they're Ivy League stuffy. It's because they're nice people.
One: where are the female alphas? Two: if you don't vote, don't complain. Three: so we are suppose to go to repigs level in order to win? And will still have our morality after sinking that low? Four: is there something wrong with taking the high road?
I think the object of this project is to reach Trump’s army of young males.
Yes, as we should. So who can get one going for alpha females?
Wish I knew.
Are the alpha females voting for Trump disproportionately?
God, I hope not. I can't figure out how ANY female could vote for such a misogynistic vile felon!
Probably not. He attracted more women than he should have, but they’re probably just following the boys.
Obsessed.
Dems lack creativity and imagination. Except, for example, Pete Buttigieg and Bernie Sanders, winners of the first two 2020 primary contests. (In '16, '20, and '24, Democrats had their nominee handed to them.)
Mentioning Andrew Tate, I say again, watch Radu Jude's recent film Do Not Expect Too Much from the End of the World (if you like cinema; hi, Sonny!).
Enjoyed the conversation guys.
Enjoyed the conversation guys.
I just love Tim Miller so much. The expressions on his face while listening to these 2 kids is hilarious.
Same, I love Tim and watch or listen to almost everything he puts out every day. I think his tone and playfulness with his interviewees is perfection, BUT I did find myself a few times saying out loud "Tim, be nicer to these kids." It was such a weird reflex to automatically want to shield these boys (I'm a 45yo woman, so maybe that's it) but I feel like this is going to be such an important show and part of me feels like we can't scare off potential guests (or viewers)!
Thank you!!!! Tim - The Bulwark Rosetta Stone translating Gen Z. A Gen Z focus is finally in the Bulwark house.
Tim, you have hands down won the title for hardest working man in podcasting.
Last request is for a tech newsletter in the vein of Huddled Masses (fantastic and have been highly recommending it to friends). Many of you know Kara Swisher - ask her who she recommends as an up and comer willing to take the assignment.
This is going to be such a great pod, but Tim, aren't you exhausted!
Well. Elder millennial here and I've never felt so old. 😳
Going with I'm not woke I'm wide awake?
This is something that I've gradually started coming to realize, that the popularity of Trump and his ilk owe a lot to a hypermasculine "fuck you" attitude. There is something particularly "American" about it. Gen Z might call it "swag". I'm starting to think that it might be to the extent that it doesn't even really matter how much he fucks everything up as long as he looks "alpha". If true the best thing to do is to just make him look as weak as possible. Calling him an "authoritarian fascist" just makes him look stronger. I suppose it is harder for Democrats policy-wise because "caring about people" looks intrinsically weak.
'Blue No Matter Who' is a nifty tagline.
In theory this is a good idea, trying to understand this subset of the population. But the combo today was a struggle for me to appreciate. Their views were really self centered and almost an attention grab. Cameron letting us know he was taking his anxiety meds and Dylan not voting, was my turn off moment.
I would like to hear from Gen Z who actually want to help the greater good, these guys have the luxury of spouting nonsense.
I think Bulwark needs to have You Tube shorts on Civics and why they matter to every one of us. We assume everyone understands how government works.
If I experienced a school shooting I may take anxiety meds. Someone who enlisted and experienced war is worth hearing. Neither is someone I would accuse of having “the luxury of spouting nonsense”. These are young men who have had difficult experiences who do seem to want to help the greater good so I was glad to hear their point of view.
Yikes, I think my comment regarding the “taking anxiety pills” was poorly written on my part, leading to it being misconstrued. My intent wasn’t to minimize him or his experiences. Mental health should be taken seriously, there is no shame, nor should there be any stigma related to seeking treatment. It was more the flippant way he mentioned it as the other guy was speaking that I found off putting.
The whole point of a comments section is to hear perspective and I respect that you thought it was worthwhile.
I am a 71 yo Boomer. I have no issues with people talking about their mental health issues [STOP THE STIGMA]. And, FFS, after the shit that Cameron dealt with 7 years ago, if anxiety meds are his key to being a functioning, intelligent person, then good for him. As far as Dylan, who is intelligent, well-spoken, and perceptive, not voting...WHAT THE FUCK, DUDE. Don't even try to justify and rationalize that lack of responsible citizenship. [Putting my hands over my ears and closing my eyes.]
Cameron mentioning the anxiety drugs is him showing that taking drugs to manage anxiety is normal. This is very much a Gen Z thing: making mental health public helps to remove the stigma of seeking help for mental health issues.
Both of my sons are close to this age (born 2002 & 2003). This was a pretty good representation of Gen Z in my opinion. Sure, there's Maxwell Frost also & we are seeing more Gen Z run for office.
I think they see this as their way of helping out the greater good. And I'm not saying it's not, if this can bring Gen Z into the fold & begin transforming the party to be inclusive of their generation & something they want to be a part of, that would be for the greater good.
We know they're passionate. We know they have the energy & desire to speak up & speak out. They've been activists for most of their lives. I have always gotten the impression that they're pretty pissed that the adults kept sending them to schools where they were more likely to get shot than just about any other location & nothing has ever been done to stop it.
The more they run for office the more I'm convinced that they've been preparing to take the reigns of power & solve the issues themselves, in their way. The sooner we can understand then, the better that transition will be.
I think, someday when we get through this mess, that when the time comes that Congress is made up of Gen Z & younger, we will see common sense, or more extreme if it keeps being fought against the way it currently is, gun laws. With what these kids grew up with, active shooter drills & many survivors of a mass shooting themselves, they're going to get in there & they will make changes.
I'd much rather work with them now than to continue to resist their participation & input. Just my thinking anyway.
Yes. If you think both parties are messed up, and therefore don’t vote at all, how do you expect anything to change?
You can think both parties are messed up, but still vote.
Sure enjoying this new voice, and the back and forth. Winner.
The place Democrats should start is to stop treating men as the enemy. Here is a selection from my Substack post "Why Kamala lost in 9 Simple Charts." It refers to all men, not just young men.
"I’d like to finish with a point that is perhaps controversial and unoriginal but needs to be hammered home; it should now be crystal clear that Democrats are steadily alienating male voters – mostly white ones, but increasingly many who are nonwhite. This is dismissed as “misogyny” by many Democrats and there is certainly plenty of that. But when one gender and one race is singled out as the source of all that is evil and nothing that is good in a nation that they themselves were instrumental in building (to say the least), members of that group can become disheartened. No one wants to be a member of a party that considers him the enemy. I must say that I share this feeling (I have never oppressed anyone). For me, no amount of frustration with Democrats would ever make me vote for human beings as despicable as Donald Trump and his brownshirts. But clearly, tens of millions of men -- white, black and brown – overcame whatever distaste for Trump they might have had and did just that."
https://charles72f.substack.com/p/why-kamela-lost-in-nine-simple-charts
Very excited to see how this develops. Interesting range of comments here. Sounds like you’re already rocking the boat. And I say Rock On!
Great pod. An electric car could easily win in NASCAR…
Love this show! I’m 67 and I don’t mind the cussing and sex talk if that concerns you. I love to hear their thought processes. Thank you!
When ever anyone mentions the cosplay sig hiel, and the clever ambiguity and plausible deniability, please people point out that *that weekend* Mr. Musk got on a zoom call with AfD.
Also the dumb numerology stuff, “my heart goes out to you” m-13 + h-8 + g-7 + o-15 + t-20 + y-25 =88. And the sentence he said afterwards was a modified 14 words.
Hmm. wouldn't be surprised if that phrase was fed to him by his numerous nazi-adjacent/curious/full contacts. He does live to troll.
and the next week white South African farmers were listed as an oppressed people deserving of immediate refuge status the US....like cut to the front of the line on "temporary protection" status
Oof, no shade, but that was kinda rough.
One of the little details I noticed is that it seems like Gen Z has a different social cadence on video chat. Like, it seemed like they were just on a different wavelength from Tim.
Anyways, it's at least interesting to hear it from the horse's mouth. Given the way that us Millennials were so utterly fucked by the Great Recession and housing crisis, AND that the fucking is still *ongoing* because the Boomers prevented us from fixing any of the damn problems (and our activists went kinda nuts as well... oops)... well, I struggle taking Gen Z's problems seriously, even if I know that I should.
But I definitely also don't envy them. I don't think I'd trade for their problems if given the chance/forced to choose.
I hope that this discussion can help keep the lines of communication open. Because the reality is, both Millennials *AND* Z's are victims of the same Boomer (and now largely Xer) mismanagement. It's disappointing and sad that Z is veering rightward, that they helped make it worse in this election by ignorantly putting Trump over the finish line. But we can't let that curdle into mutual disgust. We need to start cooperating to fix this country's problems, because otherwise there isn't going to be much of one left.
I remember a line in Girls where an older adult say to Hannah: you couldn’t pay me to be 24 again. I think that can probably said by every generation.
Fellow Millennial here. I wish I could like your comment 20 times.
This guy is going to take down Rogan?
Did I just listen to a woke Beg to Differ? We just need Damon Linker on this show so it can go full Jerry Springer. Jokes aside, I applaud the Bulwark for capturing a different segment of the audience. We need to understand how the young ones think and get out of our bubble. It is an auspicious debut I look forward to listening.
This was great. Lots I disagreed with, but intellectually engaging and challenging. And I’m so old my, only 2 of my kids are Gen Z
Love the show. Maybe I'm nutts but don't we have science to thank for 🚗 going vroom?
There's a dozen or so Dem guy politicians that could do the NASCAR thing authentically. Or just jump in mustang or old Chevelle SS and go VROOM. Hell I'll show them how.
I have a huge muscle car and massive TDS. Maybe I need to run for office.
Indeed, maybe you should. As long as you can shoot the shit for 3 hours.
Unfortunately, I am a woman, so probably won’t do well unless I team up with the next Hawk Tuah girl.
Oh god, the muscle cars back in the day. My '68 Firebird 400. Doing 120 down the empty highways in Nevada and California. So fun. Thinking it was the most fun I ever had with my clothes on. Now excuse me while I go OD on nostalgia.
sounds like Biden in the Corvette
Thank you for this insighful, hopeful and somewhat reassuring discussion. I say reassuring because as a Gen-X punk rocker from the 80s who faught against skinheads, it is good to see younger generations with a level of awareness and critical thinking that some of us older folks (not a boomer) are somewhat blind to.
While the social media landscape has changed dramatically, the fundamental dynamics and principles have not really changed. I watched many family members and friends join the military because there weren't a lot of other options. I could also relate to the concept of a Trojan Horse. In the 80s they came in the form of underground bootleg cassettes of bands like Flipper.
While I may not agree with every single conclusion or belief of these young men, I appreciate that they are using their minds and voices to try to give light to younger generations. We didn't have all the answers in the 80s either. But if you want to know what a skinhead looks like, take one look at Stephen Miller. Keep fighting the good fight, and the story will write itself.
Would love to see more media personalities on the left be meaner to online Ben Shapiro about the Candace Owens fallout situation. Make people talk about it, and make him look weak for not talking about it. Question his judgment to his face.
It’s so obviously a soft spot and nobody exploits it. The Daily Wire of all fucking outlets does not deserve anyone’s mercy or sympathy, as there is no universe in which they would ever give that mercy or sympathy. Do bad things to bad people.
Loved this, I’m all about hearing people out. Now for my elder Millennial take: I think this is really valuable perspective to bring — our beliefs are and must be a spectrum… and they’re still baking ideas — and featuring Gen Z is crucial. … time to let this go rogue for a bit. Make mistakes, challenge, go off script, and talk. The club should/needs to get bigger and I’m for it.
Hard disagree on the dunking point - we need more Dems going viral for dunking on Conservatives. It has to be a certain kind of dunking however. It can’t be the “your opinion doesn’t matter because <insert XYZ intersectionality stuff you’re a white male> ” It has to be the kind of dunking where MAGA grift gets spelled out and the Dunked-on person is exposed as the one getting ripped off by MAGA. Nobody likes to look like the person getting ripped off.
The dunking and being mean to libs (the same intersectionality-conscious people who they felt were mean to them) is a big appeal of Trump for his younger Gen Z voters. Dunking in general is just plainly a part of social media. Anyone who’s trying to be successful in these channels by pretending they’re above it is dumb and won’t work.
Totally agree. Fight fire with real fire. There’s a guy named Stavros Halkias who has a podcast Staavy’s World. He does a lot of this & makes fun of the right - especially right leaning “comedians”. It’s raunchy & juvenile & would totally bring in some of that demo.
Andrew Tate isn't a vampire but Peter Thiel is.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/peter-thiel-wants-to-inject-himself-with-young-peoples-blood
Yes! I read this article several months back! I sent it to my MAGA conspiracy theorist friend & told her it didn't seem to me like it was the Democrats who were using the blood of children to stay young!
I doubt she read it but, I found the irony pretty shocking. Is there anything they aren't guilty of that which they accuse others of? Every accusation really is a
confession it seems.
Amazed she didn't say your whole unit was devoted to that.
If you believe that your personal happiness is tied to the freedom and happiness of those around you then having an easy and privileged life will be dust and ashes in your mouth. If you look at the income inequality, medical debt, homelessness, etc… there is suffering everywhere you look and our society is cool with it. We say we aren’t, but the proof is what we do.
I guess I’m too old. I stuck it out for 32 minutes. When the guest proudly announced he doesn’t vote, I lost any interest I still had. Felt like I could sort of see Tim feeling the same way, but if this kind of programming can pull young male fasc-curious types to the light side, go for it.
The Trojan horse idea was substantive and worth exploring. I did get that out of it.
I'm too old, too, but I stuck with it and got through it. It helped me to acknowledge that I could see a little of my younger self in them, and to wonder what I would have looked and sounded like if I had the internet and social media to draw on as well.
On the other hand, these two guys have done and experienced a lot more at their age than I had by the time I reached their age. And although Dylan saying he didn't vote touched a nerve for me too, I also remember how I felt about both parties then and, oh yeah, I didn't volunteer to serve.
These guys are the future and--not for nothing--the future is theirs a lot more than it is ours
No shade intended. I, and as you point out Tim, initially, was open mouthed. The point is to hear other views that are significantly affecting everything that is going on. After all, this is not about individuals, but a generation that made up a big chunk of the 90 million eligible voters who didn't vote in the last election. Let's use an old Boomer phrase; "it's all one."
It got better - listen to all of it.
Reading this after also tapping out at 32 mins, feeling much like you. Not the target demo and that’s ok. Did involuntarily twitch a bit at the “I don’t vote bc I don’t want to legitimize a system I disagree with” but uh, I will welcome anyone to the cause.
Awesome opening pod and I very much look forward to future episodes. Several great things came up during this convo, but three really stuck out for me:
1) Yes, dems need to get back to their sex appeal roots and stop being older graduate school dorks. I've said it before and I'll say it again: when dems go young/cool/sexy/charismatic they tend to win (JFK, B Clinton, Obama), when they go old/dork/busted they tend to lose. Dems need to *Stop* playing the seniority hierarchy game when it comes time to pick a president and need to start thinking about choosing the right person for the moment rather than what old bag from yester-decade is next in line in the senate.
2) Trojan Horsing. This was such a huge point that is very valid. Shit starts off with memes and "jokes" that can quickly become accepted logic once a meme has been normalized for an individual.
3) Yes, the military *can* bring people toward left-leaning positions, and I am/was one of those people. Dems just don't know how to message to this group. This should be done in a *negative polarization* way by comparing the values of the military to the values of the American civilian world. In the military, the strong help the weak. In the civilian world, the strong leave the weak behind and rule over them via entrenched classism. In the military, the top general makes like 10x what a private makes. In the civilian world, a CEO makes 300x+ what their low-level employees make. In the military, the team is more important than the individual. In the civilian world, the individual is more important than the nation. Stuff like this.
In re: point #1 -- Reminded me of John Lovett talking about Dems having "front of the class energy," and needing a little more "back of the class energy!"
Get Cam on Sonny’s pod to discuss Eggers’ “Nosferatu,” which is, indeed, terrific.
Cam - if you're being kept in Tim's basement {against your will} - blink twice and we will organise a rescue.
Intelligence, irreverence, true talk with smiling. Thank you both.
You must have recorded this before the pardon-for-Andrew-Tate news broke.
we are all trying to learn
This would be a brilliant combination!