There's been 2+ million illegals living and working in Texas for 20-25 years. In that time the economy has boomed in scope and scale, diversification and wealth creation. I have a feeling these raids will focus of Blue cities and States to generate the video of brown people being frogged march onto buses and off to camps
One question on the designation of MS-13 as a foreign terrorist organization - since it was founded here in the neighborhood where I live in LA, wouldn't that make it a domestic terrorism organization?
My former housekeeper and friend - and her children - are so frightened. This is simply so morally WRONG in addition to unconstitutional (banning birthright citizenship). I understand the border situation was a bit out of control during Biden's early years but, as you say, it's been under control. Deport criminals - fine. No one argues with that. Or at least I don't. But decent hardworking people who have been here for decades and certainly have contributed to our wellbeing...These Trumper types are filled with such rage, loathing, darkness - tribalism as a reflection of their own brokenness
The Alien Enemies Act only applies when we're at war, Venezuelans and other citizens fleeing authoritarian regimes (as opposed to citizens of failed states or people who have a bad criminal situation at home) are legitimately entitled to asylum under international law and treaties to which the United States is a party, and the Fourteenth Amendment means what it says.
The Supreme Court got that last one wrong in 2024, looks like they'll get another chance to get it right.
So, all well and good, Adrian, okay, yeah, thanks for that. Can we just call it what it is: another example of recidivism from a convicted felon. Nothing new there. Happens every day in this country on every conceivable legal level even after "doing time". Such is not the case with the False Messiah. Lack of consequences breeds such behavior. Ask any parent who regrets not punishing their aberrant child. There is no "new political reality" only cowardice and lassitude being the order of the day. Such extremes, as viewed historically end badly, violently, brutally and in upheaval.
I love that the EO uses the well-established threshold of "common sense"...which, of course, works open to interpretation of the final arbiter, be it the public, the courts, or DJT. One supposes that, provided it serves the greater narrative and optics, it is the perfect sense and the obvious choice...at least for the time being.
My Grandmother was not granted citizenship in the United States although she was born here until 1907 as part of the price of admission of Oklahoma to the Union. The 14th Amendment did not apply to us as members of a 'domestic dependent nation' under the Marshall Doctrine of 1830. I have dual citizenship in the Cherokee Nation and in the United States because my tribal government was continued in full force and effect by an Act of Congress as part of statehood for Oklahoma. History is a hoot.
Another thing that will bite MAGA in the ass: Trump designated cartels as foreign terrorist organizations. Millions of MAGAs are hooked on illegal narcotics supplied by those cartels. This means any MAGA who buy drugs from cartel suppliers can be charged with giving aid and comfort and money to a foreign terrorist organization. How many years in prison does that bring?
Shane - by designating gangs and cartels as terrorist organizations, Trump adds weight to asylum applicants' application - credible fear in their home region due to government being unable to protect them from violence and oppression. Seems counterproductive when he's attacking our asylum process, but immigration judges will have something new to consider.
I am fascinated by the concept that the drafters of the 14th Amendment didn't consider "illegal aliens" as subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. Apart from the fact that immigrants weren't 'illegal" in 1868 so the drafters would have to have had a crystal ball, doesn't following that principle mean that every undocumented immigrant currently in federal prison has to be released because the US courts had no jurisdiction over them?
And where do the immigrations courts, or anyone else, get the ability to deport anyone if such courts have no jurisdiction?
United States v. Wong Kim Ark would seem to be precisely on point, and Wong was born when most of the drafters of the 14th Amendment were still alive; some were probably still alive when it was decided. Should be open and shut, but we'll see what THIS Court thinks.
This is a frightening time. If the courts allow this then other groups could be targeted to have their citizenship revoked. National emergency declarations are the tools dictators use to end democracy.
What scares me most about all of this is declaring an emergency where there is none. International law and US federal law on refugees and asylum has evolved quite a bit since WW 2, and Trump looks poised to sweep it all aside: everything having to do with refugees, asylum, unaccompanied children, 'safe third countries" and the ban on refoulment is at risk.
Trump pole-axed the Senate bill which would have vastly improved and shortened the asylum hearing process. What will do now, in this "emergency"? Send then all back where they came from?
The same goes for the bogus energy emergency. Are all environmental laws and regulations pertaining to fossil fuels now out the window?
Enviro regs were "waived" during his build-the-wall push in 1st term. Extensive destruction of wildlife habitat and formerly protected areas to build ineffective barrier.
SCOTUS under Roberts has been ignoring the clear meaning of the 14th amendment and the Congressional statutes relating to its implementation for decades. Brown people all over the country are scared for their soon to be born children. It's not just that if they can make it stick their children won't have US citizenship; it's also that they might end up completely stateless. Ask the multigenerational Palestinian refugees in Lebanon and Jordan how that feels and you will not get a happy answer. The stateless are the most vulnerable himan beings on the planet. This is life and death for exactly the people providing the dynamism and growth that make the US successful.
All of Trump’s “wins,” as his voter base sees them, are based in falsehoods.
For example, that immigrants are mostly from foreign jails and mental hospitals, and so he needs to use the Army against essentially all immigration at the southern border.
I no longer believe, as I did before this last election, that Trump’s base can be weaned off their steady diet of lies, distortions, paranoia, grievance and anger.
They will never see the light. He will always shape their reality, til their dying days, I’m afraid. He’s created a whole world for them, of fantasy and emotion, and however awful that world rightly seems to us, they enjoy living in it.
I feel like part of it is that they need an audience. They need libs to trigger. I'm kind of resolved to stop reacting. I've noticed on Blue sky when someone says something in a comment that's obviously meant to trigger, they tend to get ignored.
"Rep. Ritchie Torres (D-N.Y.) told The Bulwark, warning that it was “highly doubtful” this “full frontal assault” on birthright citizenship would survive judicial scrutiny."
Probably not, but a flanking assault with reference to "subject to the authority of the United States" clause might. I find birth-citizenship tourism, e.g. from China to Guam or the Marianas, offensive, and I think many people agree with me.
I don’t agree w you, for what it’s worth. I think we need more, and more diverse, immigration in this country. And it seems to me that the Trump admin finds all immigration “offensive,” unless it’s from lily-white countries like Sweden. And the admin’s predilection towards whites fits rather neatly with Musk’s recent fascist salutes. Or Laura Ingraham’s, from 2 election cycles ago.
I don't know what the numbers are for citizenship tourism by wealthy people, and I do have a problem with buying citizenship as that's what it is. But imposing a reverse means test has its own problems. I guess I would rather have a small number of wealthy citizenship buyers than lock out the much larger proportion of contributing citizens who were born here of parents with limited means. And also, what someone else pointed out about the legal status of citizenship being a more recent development than the original amendment.
Though the rich part irks me, I am not proposing a means test. I would be interested in something around temporarily coming to US soil for the purpose of gaining citizenship for a child, whether by jet plane or by swimming the Rio Grande.
How would you prove intent? Or motive? Cyclical immigration isn't limited to current times. I've learned that there were a lot of families who came here in the past intending to settle for good, but for whatever reason returned to their country of origin with their US born children, and then at some later point, returned to the US again. This is not new and I don't see it as a huge problem. Nor do I view it as a problem when people work in the US for a time, then return to their country of origin. That can contribute to an improvement in that country in ways that reduce pressure to emigrate here.
There's been 2+ million illegals living and working in Texas for 20-25 years. In that time the economy has boomed in scope and scale, diversification and wealth creation. I have a feeling these raids will focus of Blue cities and States to generate the video of brown people being frogged march onto buses and off to camps
One question on the designation of MS-13 as a foreign terrorist organization - since it was founded here in the neighborhood where I live in LA, wouldn't that make it a domestic terrorism organization?
My former housekeeper and friend - and her children - are so frightened. This is simply so morally WRONG in addition to unconstitutional (banning birthright citizenship). I understand the border situation was a bit out of control during Biden's early years but, as you say, it's been under control. Deport criminals - fine. No one argues with that. Or at least I don't. But decent hardworking people who have been here for decades and certainly have contributed to our wellbeing...These Trumper types are filled with such rage, loathing, darkness - tribalism as a reflection of their own brokenness
The fear and the cruelty is the point
The Alien Enemies Act only applies when we're at war, Venezuelans and other citizens fleeing authoritarian regimes (as opposed to citizens of failed states or people who have a bad criminal situation at home) are legitimately entitled to asylum under international law and treaties to which the United States is a party, and the Fourteenth Amendment means what it says.
The Supreme Court got that last one wrong in 2024, looks like they'll get another chance to get it right.
So, all well and good, Adrian, okay, yeah, thanks for that. Can we just call it what it is: another example of recidivism from a convicted felon. Nothing new there. Happens every day in this country on every conceivable legal level even after "doing time". Such is not the case with the False Messiah. Lack of consequences breeds such behavior. Ask any parent who regrets not punishing their aberrant child. There is no "new political reality" only cowardice and lassitude being the order of the day. Such extremes, as viewed historically end badly, violently, brutally and in upheaval.
I love that the EO uses the well-established threshold of "common sense"...which, of course, works open to interpretation of the final arbiter, be it the public, the courts, or DJT. One supposes that, provided it serves the greater narrative and optics, it is the perfect sense and the obvious choice...at least for the time being.
My Grandmother was not granted citizenship in the United States although she was born here until 1907 as part of the price of admission of Oklahoma to the Union. The 14th Amendment did not apply to us as members of a 'domestic dependent nation' under the Marshall Doctrine of 1830. I have dual citizenship in the Cherokee Nation and in the United States because my tribal government was continued in full force and effect by an Act of Congress as part of statehood for Oklahoma. History is a hoot.
The Supreme Court is in for a very rough ride over the next four years. I hope they’re ready.
So how long do we as a country give hime to get rid of inflation? Day 3? Day 20? Months? Years? Just asking!
Another thing that will bite MAGA in the ass: Trump designated cartels as foreign terrorist organizations. Millions of MAGAs are hooked on illegal narcotics supplied by those cartels. This means any MAGA who buy drugs from cartel suppliers can be charged with giving aid and comfort and money to a foreign terrorist organization. How many years in prison does that bring?
Shane - by designating gangs and cartels as terrorist organizations, Trump adds weight to asylum applicants' application - credible fear in their home region due to government being unable to protect them from violence and oppression. Seems counterproductive when he's attacking our asylum process, but immigration judges will have something new to consider.
I am fascinated by the concept that the drafters of the 14th Amendment didn't consider "illegal aliens" as subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. Apart from the fact that immigrants weren't 'illegal" in 1868 so the drafters would have to have had a crystal ball, doesn't following that principle mean that every undocumented immigrant currently in federal prison has to be released because the US courts had no jurisdiction over them?
And where do the immigrations courts, or anyone else, get the ability to deport anyone if such courts have no jurisdiction?
United States v. Wong Kim Ark would seem to be precisely on point, and Wong was born when most of the drafters of the 14th Amendment were still alive; some were probably still alive when it was decided. Should be open and shut, but we'll see what THIS Court thinks.
This is a frightening time. If the courts allow this then other groups could be targeted to have their citizenship revoked. National emergency declarations are the tools dictators use to end democracy.
What scares me most about all of this is declaring an emergency where there is none. International law and US federal law on refugees and asylum has evolved quite a bit since WW 2, and Trump looks poised to sweep it all aside: everything having to do with refugees, asylum, unaccompanied children, 'safe third countries" and the ban on refoulment is at risk.
Trump pole-axed the Senate bill which would have vastly improved and shortened the asylum hearing process. What will do now, in this "emergency"? Send then all back where they came from?
The same goes for the bogus energy emergency. Are all environmental laws and regulations pertaining to fossil fuels now out the window?
Enviro regs were "waived" during his build-the-wall push in 1st term. Extensive destruction of wildlife habitat and formerly protected areas to build ineffective barrier.
SCOTUS under Roberts has been ignoring the clear meaning of the 14th amendment and the Congressional statutes relating to its implementation for decades. Brown people all over the country are scared for their soon to be born children. It's not just that if they can make it stick their children won't have US citizenship; it's also that they might end up completely stateless. Ask the multigenerational Palestinian refugees in Lebanon and Jordan how that feels and you will not get a happy answer. The stateless are the most vulnerable himan beings on the planet. This is life and death for exactly the people providing the dynamism and growth that make the US successful.
All of Trump’s “wins,” as his voter base sees them, are based in falsehoods.
For example, that immigrants are mostly from foreign jails and mental hospitals, and so he needs to use the Army against essentially all immigration at the southern border.
I no longer believe, as I did before this last election, that Trump’s base can be weaned off their steady diet of lies, distortions, paranoia, grievance and anger.
They will never see the light. He will always shape their reality, til their dying days, I’m afraid. He’s created a whole world for them, of fantasy and emotion, and however awful that world rightly seems to us, they enjoy living in it.
I feel like part of it is that they need an audience. They need libs to trigger. I'm kind of resolved to stop reacting. I've noticed on Blue sky when someone says something in a comment that's obviously meant to trigger, they tend to get ignored.
"Rep. Ritchie Torres (D-N.Y.) told The Bulwark, warning that it was “highly doubtful” this “full frontal assault” on birthright citizenship would survive judicial scrutiny."
Probably not, but a flanking assault with reference to "subject to the authority of the United States" clause might. I find birth-citizenship tourism, e.g. from China to Guam or the Marianas, offensive, and I think many people agree with me.
I don’t agree w you, for what it’s worth. I think we need more, and more diverse, immigration in this country. And it seems to me that the Trump admin finds all immigration “offensive,” unless it’s from lily-white countries like Sweden. And the admin’s predilection towards whites fits rather neatly with Musk’s recent fascist salutes. Or Laura Ingraham’s, from 2 election cycles ago.
We'll have to disagree on rich Chinese getting US citizenship for their kids.
I don't know what the numbers are for citizenship tourism by wealthy people, and I do have a problem with buying citizenship as that's what it is. But imposing a reverse means test has its own problems. I guess I would rather have a small number of wealthy citizenship buyers than lock out the much larger proportion of contributing citizens who were born here of parents with limited means. And also, what someone else pointed out about the legal status of citizenship being a more recent development than the original amendment.
Though the rich part irks me, I am not proposing a means test. I would be interested in something around temporarily coming to US soil for the purpose of gaining citizenship for a child, whether by jet plane or by swimming the Rio Grande.
How would you prove intent? Or motive? Cyclical immigration isn't limited to current times. I've learned that there were a lot of families who came here in the past intending to settle for good, but for whatever reason returned to their country of origin with their US born children, and then at some later point, returned to the US again. This is not new and I don't see it as a huge problem. Nor do I view it as a problem when people work in the US for a time, then return to their country of origin. That can contribute to an improvement in that country in ways that reduce pressure to emigrate here.
No need for intent. Draw a line, as with DACA. Resident for two years and your bundle of joy is a US citizen, for example.