933 Comments

Great! I had to look up FTW, because as an English language nerd I speak “broken acronym”. Buildings Roman intrigued me, but then it got me a bit depressed. I’m not sure I agree that our great American habit of just moving on is a positive. To me this is a problem. I’ve thought for a long time that one of the underlying issues of our current polarization, is that we have NEVER resolved anything in our history we continue to argue and divide ourselves along the same lines from the very beginning of our existence as a country. Federal vs State, the Civil War has, for some percentage of people never been resolved.

You know there are states that still think they should have the right to secede, right? I’m not taking a stand on any of these issues, but not bringing closure to them may not be the plus you think it is. It’s more like kicking the can down the road. (Like we’ve been doing for years now on the immigration issue.

What if the next thing we kick down the road is the reforms we must have to protect our democracy from future con men and grifters?

My two cents - and we know what that’s worth! 😊

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"Witness is one of the reasons I’m convinced that the First World War, not the Second, is the most important historical event of the twentieth century."

I believe the farther we get away from it, the more it will be apparent to historians that there really were not two "world wars" but one world war that ran from 1914-1945 but with an intermission.

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And, apparently, CONTINUING....FASCISM will be here on 1/20/25. Seems like it is still the same fight, to me, anyway.

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At age 80, I lived through many times. I became a liberal and a democrat during the civil rights era. The changes in American life tell me, that as terrified as I feel right now, life for most of us is better than life in the 50's. There were few people of color in my schools. I had no friends of color, no gay or transgender friends.. They were hidden from view. My father encouraged his daughters to learn a trade. I became a nurse. I have lived a good life. But, if I'm honest, my children and grandchildren now live a freer society with more potential for growth.

Climate change is the existential threat, along with liberal democracy, but I was raised an optimist. People can grow and create.bThank you for reminding me.

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Thanks for a positive and hopeful perspective. I hope you are right. For me, I see it from two perspectives.

On the plus side, the MAGA movement is intellectually flimsy and has no real ideology to hold it together long term beyond fealty to the dear leader; so it is quite possible it will devour itself as Trump’s mental and physical infirmity becomes harder to hide. And there is clearly no succession plan due to the dear leaders narcissistic propensities to crush anyone who steals the spotlight for even a moment.

On the other hand, there is a case to be made that our institutions and standards have already reached the point that they can no longer stand up to an anti democratic, authoritarian movement. And given how Trump made a point of highlighting his most fascistic impulses, a majority (or at least a plurality) of voters approved this . Meanwhile the Supreme Court has codified authoritarian rule through its immunity ruling; and the Federal court system at every level will be dominated by MAGA for a generation at least. Thus, it is likely that the GOP has and will continue to be a fascist curious, anti democratic movement that will continue to spawn authoritarian leaders who will enjoy broad support in enough states to dominate much of our politics.

So the key question for us is how do we rebuild these democratic standards from the ground back up while MAGA dominates politics and the judiciary.

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One of the reasons this lack of closure or reckoning happens is because of generational dynamics. By the time we get through something there are new generations dealing with whatever has rolled up next, and they may not have even lived through previous events. And those who did live through them might not be around or are fading from the scene or might not be in a position anymore to do the reckoning.

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Like Wendell Berry, Clay Jenkinson, Lee Drutman, Beau Breslin, and others say, I think our problems are foundational. There are systemic and structural issues that, until we address them, will defeat or blunt our ability to fulfill our shared Constitutional responsibility to form a more perfect Union. An expanded version of why I think that can be found here (https://tinyurl.com/2ee3b5sp), for anyone interested, but since JVL asked for responses to this post, I wanted to provide some feedback.

I get your point JVL – for whatever reason – American optimism; our obsession with progress and growth; our hubris; our complacency; our lack of imagination (despite all the warnings the Founders and others have provided us); our reliance on norms and unwritten rules to undergird so much of what was necessary for the effective functioning of our government in accordance with what we thought were shared principles; our willingness to consume and fall for fearmongering and alarmist messages of division that make whichever “side” we are on look like heroes, etc. – we are not a nation that chooses to bask in reflective consideration. So, unfortunately, I think if you are right, JVL, if Trumpism fizzles out, then it will only be replaced by some other narrative about an “others” or “others,” some dragon that we the righteous must slay, a message that will be amplified and echoed by all sorts of political, media, and social media voices anxious for us to cede money and power to them.

The question is whether we can ever get past having a threat to unify around, and whether that next threat will be something external or a new set of alignments that cause us to see one another as threats. I would prefer neither, I would love to live in a nation where we were just unified without the need for a threat, as focusing on threats instead of aspirations is corrosive.

I will say there are a few exceptions. While I wouldn’t call it a moment of national reflection, in the wake of the Civil War, there was an attempt, in Reconstruction, to honor the inflection point of the Civil War and make the United States own up to the promise of its Founding. When push came to shove, though, we retrenched, and much of what we have seen since then, including Trumpism, are reactions to the 14th Amendment, either in trying to fulfill it, as with the Civil Rights movement, or trying to undercut it, as with the Supreme Court’s 14th Amendment Section 3 (A14S3) decision.#

Another exception is following World War II. I will disagree with you to a point, JVL, in that I could argue the relative significance of the First World War vs. the Second from either side, but the only reason I can do that effectively is that I see them all as a piece – that the fin de siècle of a European dominated world arc that had its origins in the collapse of the Roman Empire and started to hit its stride in the Renaissance (and was thus centuries old) was not going to be resolved in a mere four-year struggle that began with 19th-century tactics and weapons, but had to play out over decades as the competing power centers and ideologies that would replace that regime were given the time to reassess, innovate, lock, load, and fire for the real contest over what would replace that world order. I realize there is nothing original about that view, as it is pretty common, I’m just pointing it out because I think it is helpful to see them in the larger context.

Having been a naval officer in the final years of the Cold War and throughout much of the GWOT, I saw the development of the National Security State in the wake of World War II, for all its many flaws, as a well-thought-out change because it included the development of a world order meant to inculcate the best and most aspirational aspects of our system on a global level while continuing and expanding on the strong alliances and military strengths honed in the forge of World War II, primarily in an attempt to forestall another Pearl Harbor (especially a nuclear Pearl Harbor) by both attempting to reduce the economic and political motivations that lead nations to consider war, while also demonstrating a military force, and the willingness to use it, that would deter others from war, especially war on us. Despite all the failings of that – and there have been many, terrible failings – I believe, as I think Sarah Longwell does, that the world order we built is a net positive for the world, and is worth preserving and perpetuating.

I think that especially when I consider what the alternative may have been or still could be should we cede ground in this world and betray our allies and our commitments. “The Man in the High Castle,” while fictional, is an effective reminder of what a world based on fascist, communist, imperialist, or other systems would have wrought in the world.

To further make that case, I recommend the book “Factfulness,” by Anna Rosling Rönnlund, Hans Rosling, and Ola Rosling, but I think the origins of the story about how much the world has improved since the beginning of the American Century must also include the Marshall Plan and reconstruction of Europe, as well as the development of Japan and South Korea into strong, prosperous, democratic nations as feathers in our cap.

Not to take anything away from the people of Europe, South Korea, or Japan, and not to say there were not awful moments along the way, and also not to say that our actions were not entirely altruistic (as we may have chosen to act differently in the world if we had not felt so threatened by the Soviet Union and international communism), but there is much goodness in our model, and to see it adapted throughout much of the world, but especially in the places that were crushed (and except South Korea, largely crushed by us) during World War II is one of the great stories in World History. Unlike Rome with Carthage, we did not sow the fields of defeated nations with salt, we showed those nations a better way and turned thoroughly defeated enemies into some of our strongest and most reliable allies – and not just strong in terms of their support for us – but vibrant, politically, economically, and militarily strong allies.

I agree with you – I think we squandered the peace dividend, believing we and our system had won and that we were at “The End of History” described by Francis Fukuyama because when you are the dominant economic, military, political, and cultural force the world has ever seen, why wouldn’t you think that. It is easy to see now, though, how those disenfranchised from the success, globally and domestically would turn back to a time when the world was, to them, a better place, and how the “The Roots of Muslim Rage,” as described by Bernard Lewis in his 1990 Atlantic article, could be applied to the populist and reactionary movements we have seen throughout the world and which now constitute a significant portion of our Republic’s electorate.

While I realize the election of Vice President Harris would not have resulted in a national conversation about the need for amendments and changes to the Constitution needed to break us out of what Lee Drutman calls this “Two-Party Doom Loop,” but I was hopeful it would at least provide the breathing room in which that conversation was at least possible. I guess there is a chance, as JVL, Sarah, and others have discussed, that this Trump administration will be so bad that when people see it enough will come to their senses and we will turn a page. I am less sanguine, as it is clear that a significant number of my fellow citizens are somewhere along a scale of “I believe everything I am told by Trump and his aligned media outlets” and “I don’t care about the truth of what he says, as long as the Democrats are beaten.” The Trump (or, more likely, Vance) administration will have no compunction about lying, and when things go bad, they will have little compunction about expanding their circle of scapegoats (and taking action against them) to explain their failings.

I’m optimistic, that our cause is right and just, and that counts for a lot, but I believe that eventually, truth will win, that the internal contradictions of the mess the Republicans have created for themselves will find some limit, and that the infighting that will occur to either replace Trump while he is still in office or to succeed him will turn many of their faithful off or will fracture the movement. I’m optimistic but also concerned, as I think many of us are, so I will leave it at that.

# I agree with you, JVL, the language and intent of section 3 of the 14th amendment could not be clearer. Few were tried for being Confederates, so the provision was not written with some criminal definition of insurrection in mind – and the provision has a remedy – Congress can overturn a state’s decision – so a national body can weigh in on a question concerning qualification for a national election – but the Election clause and the 10th Amendment tell me a State is fully within its rights to use A14S3 to disqualify a candidate for office.

*These comments reflect my personal views and do not represent the views of the United States Navy or the United States Government.

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Can we just STOP using the word "Illiberal"? It is just another way we are normalizing or softening what is going on here. Illiberal does not mean conservative, or not-liberal. The Oxford dictionary lists words similar to illiberal as: undemocratic, antidemocratic, authoritarian, totalitarian, and facist... just to name a few.

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Just for the record, the GWOT continues, it is the reason why no attacks on US soil have occurred.

The Cold War resumed when Putin took over in Russia. The US took their eye off the problem.

What this country is about to go through isn't going to fade away. Repairing the damage will take a millenium to fix.

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I see the wars on Communism, Terror and Drugs as essentially excuses to pursue immoral policies internationally. The beneficiaries seem to shift over time, the victims are consistently darker skinned and less wealthy. None of these wars is over (or can ever be which is the point). The end is an illusion. We have simply normalized the insanity of criminalizing the use of some drugs and the subsequent violence we have rained down upon South and Central America. Drone strikes in Yemen barely register as news.

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The only action I can offer is to vote. I don't have extra time or money to contribute to causes, unfortunately. I'm one of those paycheck to paycheck Americans and weekends are maxed out with errands and trying to catch up on a little sleep. I've accepted things are the way they are and probably an overcorrection to inflation, crime, and woke/cancel culture. While I like to stay aware of what is going on, I was exhausted by the anxiety leading up to the election and now I just don't have it in me to be emotional about it all. I'm hoping for the best and sadly something catastrophic might be what is needed to make another change in the next election cycle. See you at the polls.

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Much needed encouragement. I'd fathomed the same after two days of deep blues. Then something just sparked, and it's inexplicable hope, faith. So, I've decided to opt for that lane and, as you wisely advised, avoid the misery and downsides guaranteed by MSNBC. I have a hunch that Donald won't know how to respond to less outrage and hate, and he ends up frozen between extremes where common sense and decency reside.

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I worked for the Star-Telegram. DTH people were great friends! I miss the DTH. Always an interesting read.

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I’m sharing a document that I hope others will share freely. Feeling helpless sucks. It might have zero impact, or it might change some minds. It’s not comprehensive, but rather targeted to a general audience of people that might be persuaded to join forces AGAINST Trump and the right wing regime (can we call a spade a spade now?).

Democracy in the U.S.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SRMmEEaP-UlhwY3DqB6lpTZzdUfBZtRtYL66xo1ulTw/edit

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I’m late to this party, but I have to throw in my two cents, which no one will probably see or care about. Our culture has degraded since the Cold War, 9/11, even since COVID in 2020. There is now half of American voters who think Trumpism is ok. Its negatives won’t affect them. A good percentage of citizens were apathetic and didn’t even bother to vote.

I see our country in a spiritual crisis. Values of right vs. wrong, truth even if unpleasant, personal responsibility, self-sacrificing service for others’ benefit, decency, kindness…are increasingly seen as irrelevant when it comes to our leaders. They set the tone when they see the citizenry not demanding otherwise. National unity is less and less coveted. Self is on a pedestal. “What I want. What Trump wants.” Not what’s best: Philippians 2:3

“Do nothing out of selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility consider others as more important than yourselves.”

Our country may move on, but not in a good way. Ennui will produce a spiritual apathy, laziness that leads to the allowance of not good things. I never wanted to accept that our country is in decline….defining deviancy down to the point of degradation.

Bork:

“Our country is being radically altered, step by step, by Justices who are not following any law.

It is a ship with a great deal of sail but a very shallow keel”

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Meh the problem with bulldozing and not dealing with what came before is that we don't start with fertile ground. We bulldozed slavery, the Civil War, and a sabotaged Reconstruction only to realize that the political rump that consistently bucked a multi-cultural, pluralistic democracy didn't go anywhere. Instead it lay in wait for a carnival barker to reanimate it and take it national. If we'd built statues of John Brown and hung Robert E Lee maybe we wouldn't be here mourning the reanimation of Lee's spirit 160 years later.

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This. We didn't even postmortem the *Civil* War. As a society, we buried the dead, barely made the traitors even say 'sorry' before we let them back into the Union, then embraced the Lost Cause revisionist history and kept on going ...

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Hope for the best, plan to mitigate the worst. There's no point in despairing in advance.

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I disagree. There is EVERYTHING in hoping for the best, but rather than just mitigating the worst, planning for it. And as it unfolds before our eyes, fighting tooth and nail against it is essential. At this point in time, anything else is foolishness. The time for politeness and hang-wringing is over. Those that wish to denigrate or Democracy are winning. I’ll say what I said in another comment: Our. House. Is. On. Fire. Not perhaps tomorrow, or the next day, or the day after. The time is NOW.

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