NY Times columnist Bret Stephens joins to discuss the Iranian threat (to Israel and the US), the amazing Israeli penetrations of Hezbollah and Iran, and the fate of NATO, Ukraine, etc in a Trump 2.0 world.
Update: in today's NY Times Stephens finally admits he will vote for Harris. I think he finally realized that his positions in maintaining his absurd "I can't vote for Harris even though I despise Trump" were so vacuous and illogical that his future career as a "respected" conservative journalist was in jeopardy. Too little too late for Nikki's #1 fanboy IMHO, but hey, I'm sure Bret will get a nice book deal out of it.
I've seen Bret Stephens speak many times, usually about Israel and the Middle East. He is knowledgeable on those subjects, even if I don't always agree with him. But his position on Harris has become increasingly incomprehensible. He's a NY Times columnist and therefore has a high profile. He claims he's a "Never-Trumper" but he can't bring himself to publicly say he will vote for Harris. At various points he's claimed he's like Bartleby the Scrivener and chooses not to speak about who he will vote for, or that he will write in Mr. Magoo. He's also used the cheap dodge that because he lives in NY it doesn't matter who he votes for, as if (to channel Sarah) his prominent position doesn't provide a permission structure for normal Republicans in swing states to also avoid viting for Harris (does Nikki Haley ring a bell? Oh wait, I forgot Bret was Nikki's #1 fanboy until she did the inevitable Trump endorsement). Bret may have some creditbility to speak on Ukraine and the Middle East (although he is an unreformed neocon and Iraq War cheerleader), but he has zero credibility on domestic politics.
To Linda, and anyone else who enjoys Apple’s Slow Horses… The dramatizations are excellent, with great performances by the cast, especially Gary Oldman and Kristin Scott Thomas. But I highly recommend reading the original Mick Herron books, of which there are eight in the Slough House series itself plus five novellas and two “adjacencies”, Nobody Walks and The Secret Hours. Read them in order, including the novellas/adjacencies as information in them plays into the main series books. Mick Herron is a brilliant writer and the books are so well plotted, suspenseful, and can be very funny.
Bret assumes that Trump’s second term will be just like his first term. The first term includes January 6 for god’s sake.
Bret also said that he’s been working so much lately that he can’t name a single book or tv show.
I’ve admired Bret for decades, but the man is not well. He says that if we take Trump at his word, it’s “terrifying” for our future. Yet he’s happy to roll the dice and hope the world survives.
The man needs a sabbatical before he loses his reputation altogether.
Brett Stephens couldn’t be any more deliberately obtuse if he were a three-sided polygon. His apparent glee with being a contrarian is really off-putting and unproductive.
What I did enjoy about this podcast was Damon and Bill really bringing the heat from the 40:00 mark until Brett went full ‘turd in the punch bowl’ during the ‘favorite tv show’ closing sequence.
One quick thought on the war in the Middle East. I'm not Jewish but I've always been rather struck by the beauty of much of the founding tenets of Judaism. October 7th saw acts of unspeakable atrocity committed. totally agree Israel has a right to defend itself. Yet, I do fear Israel may be risking its heart, its humanity, its very soul as the war in Gaza continues unabated and the hostages remain in peril. I wonder if the world needs a little less Netanyahu, Ben-Givir and Smotrich and a little more Rabin, Frankl and Oz.
Outstanding pod! Mona, as usual, rocked. I'll note this fabulously exclamatory query among other great moments, "...why either or?" in response to Stephens' astonishingly rigid and narrow view that ..."We've got to decide whether the problem is fundamentally that he (Trump) is a sinister Mussolini wannabe or he's a colossal horse's ass." The idea that this is an either/or scenario is ludicrous and I was frankly dumbfounded that a mind such as his could offer such an inflexible and limited choice of alternatives. Mona's startled amazement was priceless. Not long after, my dumbfounded-ness deepened with this gobsmacking opinion from Stephens', "... I suspect that Trump 2.0 will be pretty much in the form of Trump 1.0. Maybe you disagree." Oh. My. Effing. God! (I screamed to myself internally as I took my morning walk). This is why he cannot endorse Harris. He actually thinks Trump, at the end of the day, in a second term, will be no big deal. So I just want to take a moment to offer my heartfelt gratitude to Mona, Linda, Bill and Damon for absolutely, positively, having none of that. None.! The four of you together eviscerated this in a notably 'civil' fashion in keeping with the pod's values. Well done. This, from Damon, deserved a bloody standing ovation ...." I do think it is accurate to say that during his first administration, he was outmanoeuvred by his staff. They did what they thought needed to be done... And he didn't really know what was going on. And they outsmarted him. That is not going to happen again." This to you, Mr Stephens, Wake the eff up! Vote Harris, you lunatic.
Nice post. I enjoyed reading it. I commend your compliment to the regulars for being civil, I’m going past that now. I would love to see the bulwark sharpen its tone and give these individuals their due. Perhaps it’s not possible in the podcast business model, but your challenge to Mr. Stephens … I like the way you put it.
Does Bret Stephens not understand that his little quip about history being uncertain under socialism actually applies astoundingly well to MAGA Republicanism? For MAGA, the past is whatever Trump claims it was.
People who think the essence of intelligence and seriousness is finding something to assert that is contrary to everything we can see and hear with our own eyes and ears are exhausting. And, yes, this is about Bret Stephens.
Also, nothing wrong with not watching TV or movies but acting like it’s something that makes you better than other people. And bragging about writing over 100 NYT columns so far this year, while other people impliedly waste their time watching TV, is pretentious and annoying. And, yes, this too is about Bret Stephens.
Hubris Is Back: Israel's Unchecked Arrogance Is a Recipe for Disaster - Gideon Levy
"The Israeli hubris is back, big time. Who would have believed that a year after October 7 it would return, and at such a scale. After we defeated Hamas and destroyed the Gaza Strip, now we are defeating Hezbollah and destroying Lebanon – and we are already turning to Iran.
The Israeli dialogue is already talking about regime change there, discussing the assassination of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and deliberating between strikes on nuclear installations and strikes on oil facilities. Israel is in a state of hubris. From the rock bottom and broken spirit of the October 7 rout – it was compared to the Holocaust – to the heights of arrogance of regime change and of moving peoples all over the Middle East. And all within a year. It will end in tears and blood.
It is the nature of hubris, by definition, that it ends in disaster. It is the nature of such extreme volatility, from fictitious Holocaust to fictitious victory, to come crashing down.
Meanwhile, millions of people are fleeing from the Israeli army for their lives, displaced, refugees, destitute, hopeless, wounded, orphans and crippled in endless processions of suffering in Gaza and Lebanon. Soon in the West Bank and maybe also in Iran. Never have so many people fled in terror of Israel, not even in the Nakba of 1948. They will never forget what Israel did to them. Never. To Israel and the Israelis, it brings not only joy, satisfaction and national pride but also a power trip the likes of which they have never seen, certainly not since 1967.
The military successes, impressive as they are, are driving Israel crazy. How we blew up the pagers and how we killed their leaders, high-fives all around. The attack on Iran is liable to demonstrate it. But the military achievements are not the most important thing. What comes next?
Israel feels that the sky's the limit for its attacks, its conquests, the killing and the destruction that it is capable of sowing. And there is no stopping it. Never before has it stood like this in front of an empty goal, convinced that it has been given the kicking opportunity of a lifetime. One after another, we have seen the houses of cards that were feared so much fall before us: Rockets from Gaza, missiles from Lebanon, cruise missiles from Yemen and ballistic missiles from Iran no longer impress anyone.
The helplessness of the international community, especially the United States, reinforces the sense of intoxication. Everything is possible. It seems that Israel can continue its Genghis Khan campaigns of conquest and punishment unhindered. America begs it to stop; its pleas make no impression on the Israelis. Rightfully so.
But Israel may find that its astonishing victories are nothing but a fateful honey trap, like the intoxicating victory of 1967 – the rotting fruits of which we are eating to this day. What is depicted as unlimited military capabilities are liable to end in a pyrrhic victory. In Gaza, Israel continues to mistreat millions of miserable people, even after announcing that Hamas has been militarily defeated. Why continue? Because it can. Soon in Lebanon, as well.
The unnecessary and dangerous punishment of Iran has been publicly discussed for days, as if there is no country besides Israel, no limit to its possibilities and no one who will stop its lust for power. In the absence of a true friend who would do so, it will never stop on its own accord, until disaster befalls it. And it is liable to come. Military successes tend to be deceptive and fleeting.
The abhorrence of the world's masses will eventually be joined by their governments, and one (distant) day they will be sick of it. Israel has no international backing except for the United States and Europe. True, they haven't yet lifted a finger, but one day public opinion there could change that.
History is full of power-drunk countries that didn't know how to stop in time. Israel is approaching this. Meanwhile, the thought of millions in the Middle East fleeing in terror before it, suffering indescribable pain and humiliation under our boots, should cause every Israel to shrink in shame and fear. Instead, they fill the Israeli heart with pride and encourage them to seek more of the same. And there's no stopping it."
Update: in today's NY Times Stephens finally admits he will vote for Harris. I think he finally realized that his positions in maintaining his absurd "I can't vote for Harris even though I despise Trump" were so vacuous and illogical that his future career as a "respected" conservative journalist was in jeopardy. Too little too late for Nikki's #1 fanboy IMHO, but hey, I'm sure Bret will get a nice book deal out of it.
I've seen Bret Stephens speak many times, usually about Israel and the Middle East. He is knowledgeable on those subjects, even if I don't always agree with him. But his position on Harris has become increasingly incomprehensible. He's a NY Times columnist and therefore has a high profile. He claims he's a "Never-Trumper" but he can't bring himself to publicly say he will vote for Harris. At various points he's claimed he's like Bartleby the Scrivener and chooses not to speak about who he will vote for, or that he will write in Mr. Magoo. He's also used the cheap dodge that because he lives in NY it doesn't matter who he votes for, as if (to channel Sarah) his prominent position doesn't provide a permission structure for normal Republicans in swing states to also avoid viting for Harris (does Nikki Haley ring a bell? Oh wait, I forgot Bret was Nikki's #1 fanboy until she did the inevitable Trump endorsement). Bret may have some creditbility to speak on Ukraine and the Middle East (although he is an unreformed neocon and Iraq War cheerleader), but he has zero credibility on domestic politics.
To Linda, and anyone else who enjoys Apple’s Slow Horses… The dramatizations are excellent, with great performances by the cast, especially Gary Oldman and Kristin Scott Thomas. But I highly recommend reading the original Mick Herron books, of which there are eight in the Slough House series itself plus five novellas and two “adjacencies”, Nobody Walks and The Secret Hours. Read them in order, including the novellas/adjacencies as information in them plays into the main series books. Mick Herron is a brilliant writer and the books are so well plotted, suspenseful, and can be very funny.
Bret assumes that Trump’s second term will be just like his first term. The first term includes January 6 for god’s sake.
Bret also said that he’s been working so much lately that he can’t name a single book or tv show.
I’ve admired Bret for decades, but the man is not well. He says that if we take Trump at his word, it’s “terrifying” for our future. Yet he’s happy to roll the dice and hope the world survives.
The man needs a sabbatical before he loses his reputation altogether.
Brett Stephens couldn’t be any more deliberately obtuse if he were a three-sided polygon. His apparent glee with being a contrarian is really off-putting and unproductive.
What I did enjoy about this podcast was Damon and Bill really bringing the heat from the 40:00 mark until Brett went full ‘turd in the punch bowl’ during the ‘favorite tv show’ closing sequence.
that kitty is so cute!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Opd5LQP8l0 - James O'Brien: Israel has been given a 'free pass to continue the carnage' | LBC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEwNAe-Rj20 - Israel Attacks U.N. Peacekeeping Forces as U.S. Sends 100 Troops Anticipating Conflict with Iran
One quick thought on the war in the Middle East. I'm not Jewish but I've always been rather struck by the beauty of much of the founding tenets of Judaism. October 7th saw acts of unspeakable atrocity committed. totally agree Israel has a right to defend itself. Yet, I do fear Israel may be risking its heart, its humanity, its very soul as the war in Gaza continues unabated and the hostages remain in peril. I wonder if the world needs a little less Netanyahu, Ben-Givir and Smotrich and a little more Rabin, Frankl and Oz.
Outstanding pod! Mona, as usual, rocked. I'll note this fabulously exclamatory query among other great moments, "...why either or?" in response to Stephens' astonishingly rigid and narrow view that ..."We've got to decide whether the problem is fundamentally that he (Trump) is a sinister Mussolini wannabe or he's a colossal horse's ass." The idea that this is an either/or scenario is ludicrous and I was frankly dumbfounded that a mind such as his could offer such an inflexible and limited choice of alternatives. Mona's startled amazement was priceless. Not long after, my dumbfounded-ness deepened with this gobsmacking opinion from Stephens', "... I suspect that Trump 2.0 will be pretty much in the form of Trump 1.0. Maybe you disagree." Oh. My. Effing. God! (I screamed to myself internally as I took my morning walk). This is why he cannot endorse Harris. He actually thinks Trump, at the end of the day, in a second term, will be no big deal. So I just want to take a moment to offer my heartfelt gratitude to Mona, Linda, Bill and Damon for absolutely, positively, having none of that. None.! The four of you together eviscerated this in a notably 'civil' fashion in keeping with the pod's values. Well done. This, from Damon, deserved a bloody standing ovation ...." I do think it is accurate to say that during his first administration, he was outmanoeuvred by his staff. They did what they thought needed to be done... And he didn't really know what was going on. And they outsmarted him. That is not going to happen again." This to you, Mr Stephens, Wake the eff up! Vote Harris, you lunatic.
Nice post. I enjoyed reading it. I commend your compliment to the regulars for being civil, I’m going past that now. I would love to see the bulwark sharpen its tone and give these individuals their due. Perhaps it’s not possible in the podcast business model, but your challenge to Mr. Stephens … I like the way you put it.
I loved Call My Agent! Excellent!
Does Bret Stephens not understand that his little quip about history being uncertain under socialism actually applies astoundingly well to MAGA Republicanism? For MAGA, the past is whatever Trump claims it was.
People who think the essence of intelligence and seriousness is finding something to assert that is contrary to everything we can see and hear with our own eyes and ears are exhausting. And, yes, this is about Bret Stephens.
Also, nothing wrong with not watching TV or movies but acting like it’s something that makes you better than other people. And bragging about writing over 100 NYT columns so far this year, while other people impliedly waste their time watching TV, is pretentious and annoying. And, yes, this too is about Bret Stephens.
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-10-13/ty-article/.premium/hubris-is-back-israels-unchecked-arrogance-is-a-recipe-for-disaster/00000192-825d-dd80-af9a-dfffbc5d0000?utm_source=App_Share&utm_medium=Twitter
Hubris Is Back: Israel's Unchecked Arrogance Is a Recipe for Disaster - Gideon Levy
"The Israeli hubris is back, big time. Who would have believed that a year after October 7 it would return, and at such a scale. After we defeated Hamas and destroyed the Gaza Strip, now we are defeating Hezbollah and destroying Lebanon – and we are already turning to Iran.
The Israeli dialogue is already talking about regime change there, discussing the assassination of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and deliberating between strikes on nuclear installations and strikes on oil facilities. Israel is in a state of hubris. From the rock bottom and broken spirit of the October 7 rout – it was compared to the Holocaust – to the heights of arrogance of regime change and of moving peoples all over the Middle East. And all within a year. It will end in tears and blood.
It is the nature of hubris, by definition, that it ends in disaster. It is the nature of such extreme volatility, from fictitious Holocaust to fictitious victory, to come crashing down.
Meanwhile, millions of people are fleeing from the Israeli army for their lives, displaced, refugees, destitute, hopeless, wounded, orphans and crippled in endless processions of suffering in Gaza and Lebanon. Soon in the West Bank and maybe also in Iran. Never have so many people fled in terror of Israel, not even in the Nakba of 1948. They will never forget what Israel did to them. Never. To Israel and the Israelis, it brings not only joy, satisfaction and national pride but also a power trip the likes of which they have never seen, certainly not since 1967.
The military successes, impressive as they are, are driving Israel crazy. How we blew up the pagers and how we killed their leaders, high-fives all around. The attack on Iran is liable to demonstrate it. But the military achievements are not the most important thing. What comes next?
Israel feels that the sky's the limit for its attacks, its conquests, the killing and the destruction that it is capable of sowing. And there is no stopping it. Never before has it stood like this in front of an empty goal, convinced that it has been given the kicking opportunity of a lifetime. One after another, we have seen the houses of cards that were feared so much fall before us: Rockets from Gaza, missiles from Lebanon, cruise missiles from Yemen and ballistic missiles from Iran no longer impress anyone.
The helplessness of the international community, especially the United States, reinforces the sense of intoxication. Everything is possible. It seems that Israel can continue its Genghis Khan campaigns of conquest and punishment unhindered. America begs it to stop; its pleas make no impression on the Israelis. Rightfully so.
But Israel may find that its astonishing victories are nothing but a fateful honey trap, like the intoxicating victory of 1967 – the rotting fruits of which we are eating to this day. What is depicted as unlimited military capabilities are liable to end in a pyrrhic victory. In Gaza, Israel continues to mistreat millions of miserable people, even after announcing that Hamas has been militarily defeated. Why continue? Because it can. Soon in Lebanon, as well.
The unnecessary and dangerous punishment of Iran has been publicly discussed for days, as if there is no country besides Israel, no limit to its possibilities and no one who will stop its lust for power. In the absence of a true friend who would do so, it will never stop on its own accord, until disaster befalls it. And it is liable to come. Military successes tend to be deceptive and fleeting.
The abhorrence of the world's masses will eventually be joined by their governments, and one (distant) day they will be sick of it. Israel has no international backing except for the United States and Europe. True, they haven't yet lifted a finger, but one day public opinion there could change that.
History is full of power-drunk countries that didn't know how to stop in time. Israel is approaching this. Meanwhile, the thought of millions in the Middle East fleeing in terror before it, suffering indescribable pain and humiliation under our boots, should cause every Israel to shrink in shame and fear. Instead, they fill the Israeli heart with pride and encourage them to seek more of the same. And there's no stopping it."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW5P-hYC-NQ - Thomas Friedman: This is the most dangerous time in the modern Middle East
Trump is mentally ill
Bill Galston’s point on Ukraine victory was the most important and rationale thing said here.
Brett Stephens did not disappoint. He’s incomprehensible.
And Damon I think you let him off easy on Israel. It’s not at all clear to me that he is among the ‘moderate’ thinkers on Mideast policy.