The Pillar's Ed Condon joins JVL to talk about the Trump administration's confrontation(s) with the Catholics.
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Will try to check out The Pillar.
Did not know yet they were MAGAs, when one pushed my kids out of the church. The evangelical ones started showing up in my closest Catholic church in the mid 1990s. Half were very decent, the other half, questionable, some very proud of pushing the regulars' children out.
When one was confronted, she boasted she and her father were extra-good Christians, that our children were 'too smart", that ours should go all the way down to the university for church. (13-15 year-olds with 20-22 year-olds? what?)
She went after the teen boys first, so we separated the boys and taught them separately. We were not in the room with her and the girls, so were not to find out, until later, she had berated the smarter ones in front of the others until some cried.
Confronted a second time, she said she was only teaching what her father taught her. She was mystified her brothers quit going to church, given her father was so right.
Finding other of our girls had been upset, more irate parents than us, more of us confronted her, together. Though she was white, she said she could not get along with the white girls, needed to teach just the Hispanics. We changed churches for a year, went to a less diverse church nearby, second closest, ironically, less diverse, as more Hispanic.
After a year, friends invited us back, to an easter musical at our old church. as they were singing. We went. My daughter then sat in the car afterward and cried for an hour. After that, she avoided church, any and all churches, went with me to Xmas Mass twice, to please me. She liked seeing all the solar panels at American University in DC, so may be having a re-think. We'll see.
I had not heard of MAGA yet, but that was what that ill woman seemed to be. Her ideas, her hatred, her need to punish, until somebody cried.
Recommend looking up Joseph Bernardin and his "Seamless Garment" and "Common Ground" reasoning.
The 1980s "stacking" of the US supreme court and of the US cardinals with conservatives were similar to each other? Reagan's adding of some ultra-conservatives was not yet controversial, as the court was still "balanced"? still had liberal and moderate and semi-conservatives chosen by earlier Presidents? One or two popes more conservative than the popes preceding them did essentially the same thing post Vatican II. The new US choices adhered to conservative Catholic doctrine, put longer-standing Catholic dogma, more liberal, "on the back burner", a situation which Pope Francis has been correcting . (Earlier, Pope Leo had been liberal on labor policies, with Pope John 23rd liberal in his Vatican II reforms.)
Why was Bernardin allowed in to the Bishops, then in to the archBishops in the Reagan era, then into the Cardinals, though not conservative? Maybe as Bernardin had a gift for talking to everyone?
The person the Democrats chose to respond to Trump's speech Mar 4 would be in Bernardin's vein.
The Klan was still active in SC when Bernardin grew up there. The Klan was violently racist and anti-Semitic and anti-labor union, with anti-Catholic "another part of the same thing".
In the weeks after MLK died, Bernardin, for some time in Atlanta, was sent north, to Cincinnati and Chicago.
One biography of him is at the Digitalcommons of cbsSJU.edu (Jesuit place, but he was Franciscan). It's in an issue of "The Journal of Social Encounters", in which William Droel of Chicago reviewed a book, "Joseph Bernardin: Seeking Common Ground" (pub. 2016, by Stephen Millies, of Collegeville, Minn.)
He was selected/appointed as secretary to the Council of US Bishops. In 1983, in Chicago, Bernardin headed a committee on War and Peace. He'd insisted on diverse members from the clergy hierarchy. They ranged, from military, to Pax Christi. They interviewed experts and lay people.
Their report was criticized by public officials of the Reagan years(1981 to 1989) and by what Droel called "neo-conservative Catholics" (future MAGA?).
Bernardin eventually expanded the committee's War and Peace conclusions into his seamless garment theology. (MAGA wears just one sleeve of Christianity, tearing the rest of the Christian garment into shreds?)
Side note-Bernardin discussed the sex abuse crisis, did not stick his head in the sand. Some sociologists say the crisis was a consequence of a shortage of priests, places not willing to fire priests based on rumor and gossip when there was a shortage. (Studies of incest point out "private places" as fostering that problem inside families.. Churches that had no private spots inside had less trouble, as anybody could walk through, at any time.)
Protestants have had clergy affairs with females in the congregations at times of clergy shortages. Another thing-- The Catholics and the Boy Scouts kept records of accusations, while many Protestants did not. (No records is not the same as sinless.)
Seriously, the world is so split now that if a liberal Pope is chosen, there could actually be a split in the Church, with all the Rad Trads, racists and haters starting their own MAGA America First Catholic Church, where a Scandanavian suntanned blue eyed Jesus is a venture capitalist in an Armani Suit who dispenses grace dividends on the rich and frowns upon the lazy poor.
In Phoenix, our Catholic Deacon gave a homily about feeding, clothing, and housing the refugees at the Arizona border, since this is what Jesus commands of us. People stood up and walked out of the Church. This is the state of spiritual rot in this country. People want to be seen as good Catholics who attend Mass, but how dare anyone demand that they act like Jesus!
72 years old, and actually believe that my Catholic baptism and confirmation has put 2 marks on my soul of spiritual protection. Maybe that is why I find MAGA inexplicable to me. While I find some of the Catholic dogma idiotic in the 21st century (the ban on any form of birth control, the obsession against gay people), it is still my spiritual home. Thank you for this wonderful discussion. I am a full time caregiver for someone with Alzheimers, Parkinsons, COPD and AFIB. If not for the Catholic Charity known as FSL, I would be on my own (they provide counseling for caregivers and day care for patients).
thank for your three posts above, William
Good discussion and overview on the attacks on Catholic Charities.
But we need to stop speaking of Christian Nationalism (CN) as a form of Christianity. First, the dominant characteristic is its racism rather than either Christianity or nationalism. It is not our nation above all other nations but our white male nation above all others. Can one think about CN without thinking about race and who is excluded? Is there an element of black CN or female led CN that comes to mind or that's showing itself (although some women are CN adherents).
If one looks at immigration is there a major CN stance against white Scandinavians or even other white Europeans?
If one looks at how the actions play out, the attacks are more against anyone who is not white male more than not American. It is certainly anti-Islamic (not sure about how Buddhists or Hindus, e.g, fit in ), anti-white liberals and in many ways anti-women. Because of christian evangelicals' pro-Israel stance it would seem that anti-semitism would be only a small aspect of CN but attacks on Jews are increasing. And, theoretically even the evangelical views of Israel are that the prophecy is that at the second coming will be in Israel, and then all will become saved Christians or be damned and Judaism will disappear.
So it is a movement made up almost solely of christians but CN is far more a group that defines itself by race and even gender than by christianity.
Good point form Richard Yoast above:
"we need to stop speaking of Christian Nationalism (CN) as a form of Christianity. First, the dominant characteristic is its racism rather than either Christianity or nationalism. It is not our nation above all other nations but our white male nation above all others"
Thank you, JVL, for helping restore my Catholicism. I have had to reduce my charitable contributions as I’ve aged and been retired - but I’ve stuck with Catholic Charities mainly because of its work at the US-Mex. border, and its work feeding the poor. I am happy to continue to support CC and, by extension, my very favorite Pope of all time, Pope Francis. I mourn in advance the world’s loss of this gracious, loving religious leader whom we are likely never to see again (at least in the next several generations). You are loved in our house, JVL. Again, thank you.
He lost all credibility for me at that moment. Still lying?
Is that “Catholic Speak”?
Please do not use “child abuse” for the truth - child sex abuse. Purposely word choice ?
YAY Pope! He’s not staying within past norms of communication- so glad he’s acting like it’s 2025 👍🏻
Idea!
Trump has been arguing to teach the Bible in school. Someone needs to put together a campaign that takes all the passages from the Bible that support DEI and argue in support of Trump's push and that it's a pro DEI platform he is supporting.
Can't wait to see how fast they start trying to ban the Bible
Please continue to have Ed or JD on occasionally in this format. I work for a Catholic archdiocese and read the Pillar regularly for news in my field. They are straight shooters and your conversation was valuable for many listeners. As you suggested in conversation, most Catholics who consider themselves faithful simply don’t know actual Catholic Social Teaching…or they refuse to assent to it.
Catholic Church isn't collapsing in America at all. It's the largest denomination in America by far (71M people. The Southern Baptists are #2 at 13M)
Yes changing but by no means is it collapsing. Mainline Protestantism is collapsing, sadly
One example: https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/the-state-of-the-evangelical-lutheran
Ken Paxton is bigoted hate-filled criminal scumbag.
His behavior is literally grits weasel- that’s what my phone came up with 🤣
I meant to say grotesque
Lapsed Catholic here.. I've always believed the church became more conservative as the moderates, like my family, stopped participating amid the scandal and lack of understanding by the priests about modern challenges like divorce and women's health
It's not "shifting" as much as "shrinking", so the voices that were drowned out before are now the main message
JD Vance is not a devout Catholic
JD Vance is Opus Dei
Donald Trump doesn't pay his bills. Elon Musk doesn't pay his bills. Why would a executive branch ran by Trump and Musk pays bills. JD Vance is a carpetbag Catholic.
I am not Catholic but/and found this episode incredibly illuminating and informative. Thanks JVL and Ed Condon, would really like to learn more about this topic.
As a side note: Can someone please tell me how to turn on notifications so that I will get a ping when JVL goes live on Substack? Have looked everywhere and cannot figure it out.
Anne, Jim Swift has put out that you can send tech questions to:
member@thebulwark.com
Would you like to be Catholic? Hmmmm? (just kidding, but the Catholic Church has a year long training program for people to become Catholic the night before Easter).
LOL no, BUT I have had my eye on an Episcopalian church up the street from me. I am not religiously inclined at all (would consider myself a liberal humanist, as quaint as that may sound, but this church does a lot of great volunteer work in the local community, and since it is a 10 minute walk away I have been contemplating going for a while to become more involved in my own neighborhood in a positive way. I do live in the District of Columbia as a matter of fact so we could all use a little more positive community engagement at the moment.
I do have to hand it to JD Vance, his comments even pissed off Catholics who no longer attend church (like me). Like that takes skill for someone to say something so completely asinine where I'm on a rampage about what he says.
I’m a Lutheran and I’m like yay Pope! Speak loud and proud NOW when we need to hear it from every tower
Thank you for this call with Ed JVL. I love the Pillar's stuff for my own life of faith, but explaining why "the Catholics are in it for the money" is such a terrible take. The light in the darkness of this particular thing is it's showing people who are hostile to the Church that we actually try to do important work. Those who thought they liked the doom and gloom Church realize that the whole Charity thing is important and are now pissed off, and that pleases me.
Catholic Church is impressing this Lutheran! Especially after their responsibility and silence on sex abuse
I've been "Catholic-adjacent" all my life, having majored in Medieval/Reformation history back when Middle English was a living language :) The Franciscan movement of the 13th centuries (forward) was brilliantly an urban phenomenon that addressed urban poverty -- at a time when urbanization was exploding in Europe. Reformation Protestantism recreated Christianity from Jesus-centric (" ... go and do likewise") to sin-centric with its essential spiritual narcissism. If you look at the theological literature of the English and North American Puritans, you will note a complete absence of any interest or even awareness of Christian compassion extended to ANYONE other than their own community. I truly believe that we are, in 2025, seeing a breakout of the Thirty Years War in North America.
BRAVO!
Julia, your conclusion regarding the Puritans' insularity is quite satisfying and feels intuitively a correct observation - having lived in Massachusetts for fifty years - but i am wondering if there are certain texts/books that had in mind as you penned your comment. I am always trying to tease out the origins of America's worst cultural habits and traits versus its best democratic ideals of equality and justice; religious freedom versus freedom of religion & belief is a constant dynamic, along with the ambitious pursuit of material wealth from the very first European settlers, but perhaps a dynamic that happened gradually - possibly in part as a reaction to the Puritans' austere 'tribal' piety at the expense of any other ways of seeing.
Nothing is more eloquent than how Puritanism had, by the mid-17th century, had to re-formulate itself after the "Halfway Covenant." Puritanism's ongoing evolution had to contend with what was clearly competition from other Christian disciplines -- Catholics in Maryland, Quakers (hanged by the Puritans) in Pennsylvania, and the cataclysmic enthusiasm of the Great Awakening. You will note that most of Massachusett's former Puritan enclaves are now Unitarian/Universalist! But even by then (1720s), the aging Puritan culture was starting to weaken in its strict Calvinism -- I would recommend the book "The Heart Prepared: Grace and Conversion in Puritan Spiritual Life" by Pettit that describes how Puritans backtracked the closed system of total depravity to make conversion possible. "Covenant theology" now belongs to Presbyterians and strict Reformed Churches.
PS If the RCC would like to allow me to join it, I would.
We went to mass 6 days a week at Immaculate Conception during my childhood. So I’m at least 2500x as Catholic as JD Vance by my calculations. 😉. That guy should stuff it about being Catholic until he hits at least 1000 masses and 100 rosaries, don’t ya think? 😜
Thank you JVL for introducing me to THe Pillar
Vance is concerned that the Catholic Bishops are “padding their bottom line” by helping refuges get settled; but is completely unconcerned that MUSK “is” padding his bottom line by selling Teslas to the US govt? Or by dropping all the cases of fraud Musk was accused in?? This Vance argument needs to be highlighted!
Over the last ten years or so, I've been holding on by a thread to the Church, in order to not allow anyone to "force" me out of my faith that, during both good and trying times, has provided guidance, strength, and refuge. I stay (and occasionally leave but return) precisely because the Church's teachings of living the Gospel, of walking the walk, is foundational to its beliefs, teachings, and culture.
My mom, who converted to Catholicism of her own accord (to her Methodist grandmother's horror) in 1950 at the age of 14, became one of the first women Eucharistic ministers in western Washington and went on to become a professor of theology and religious studies at Seattle University, a Jesuit institution. My upbringing in the church by a mother who lived every facet of Catholic social justice teachings, often in the face of enormous pushback by, it is sad to say, primarily priests who viewed her growing influence in our diocese of the 1970s and 80s as a subversive threat (not ALL, but many; conversely, Deacons often cheered her on!) still holds enormous sway in how I view what leaders in the Church *should* do, what they should teach, how they should lead.
That is to say, Catholics and MAGA are - or should be - polar opposites in their belief systems, their lived devotion to the Lord and to the Beatitudes, and their commitment to put charity, compassion, and mercy front and center in their daily lives. I have been blessed to know angels in the guise of "simple" Women religious, as well as some remarkably devoted priests and lay people who would literally give the shirts on their backs and the shoes on their feet to the people they serve - the underserved and marginalized.
So to hear J.D. Vance accuse Catholics in general and Catholic Charities in particular of somehow grifting off immigrants, well... there is no more perfect example of "projection" than that. And yet, Vance *must* know just how ludicrous and hypocritical he sounds. He may now be a soulless bundle of naked ambition, but he's not stupid. He knows exactly who his boss is. And therein lies the tragedy.
Glad hear a positive story.
Born Roman Catholic and still am. For the record, Christian Nationalists are NOT real Christians. Their televangelists make me nauseous. I am being judgmental, which is a sin according to my teachings. However, seeing what MAGA is doing horrifies me.,
It horrifies me as well. It should horrify everyone.
My Aunt who was in the Navy converted in 1947 -- received her first Communion in the Military Episcopate in the Navy. Growing up, I "inherited" all her rosaries, prayer books, medals, and etc. They are all precious to me and her spiritual material culture was critical in the formation of my own spirituality.
BRAVA!! to strong, independent women :-).
The Catholic Church, though it has its historic misogyny ... has been a treasure-trove of strong women! :) Medieval history is replete with assertive abbesses and feisty anchorites. You should note that the cross of Lorraine, the symbol of French resistance in World War II ... is associated with Joan of Arc. !!!
I agree! And we cannot stop fighting for the equality that has eluded us these past 2,000+ years. My mom actually put together a bibliography of resources related to women and the Church (from many angles). I've been thinking about trying to find it, I know I have it archived somewhere!
She passed away in 2006 from early-onset Alz, which was devastating, of course. But she left behind a few things that I've often thought could be put to good use one day 🙂.
Find it! Update it! Post it!
Will do. If/when I find it, I'll post it here and in my own Substack conversation, I guess. I'm glad this conversation came up!
Yes, it's projection. Remember that Trump and his kids used their foundations for grift including campaign contributions to Pam Bondi, the new AG, when she was a FL AG.
The amount of grift and corruption is truly just mind boggling.
On the whole, American Christianity is more culturally American than Christian. There are still churches who represent Christ more than America. But if God animates the church through the Holy Spirit, not the people, then after a time of purification, the church comes back.
Jonathan Rauch has a new book that might interest you. He was on Mona Charen's podcast recently. It's worth a listen.
JVL, your mien is different. I do believe you're taking things seriously. When we take serious things seriously, we leave behind the unnecessary, like fear or overestimating things. It brings a laser focused clarity that doesn't have time for mental frippery. I look forward to hearing from this super rationally engaged JVL.
There is a great website "Where Peter Is" that provides a much needed counter to the radical right Catholics. I am dismayed at the number of Catholic bishops who openly defy our Pope. I was not a huge fan of Pope Benedict, but he was our Pope, and deserving of our respect. The number of on-line Catholic trolls who are rubbing their hands in glee at Pope Francis's current health crisis is sickening. Please, let us pray for the continued healing of the Holy Father.
Thanks for the website reference. Here it is: https://wherepeteris.com/
the good news is that he has installed countless Cardinals who will hopefully (fingers crossed) install a worthy successor such that there will not be any serious backsliding.
Yes, and most of Francis’s appointees think just like him, which is why he chose them. Pope Francis has been “stacking the deck” in his favor for years. I think his appointees now outnumber the cardinals he has not appointed, and several of the cardinals who preexisted his papacy have aged out of being able to vote. So, God willing, we will get a worthy successor.
Wait - Isn’t Vance a Trojan horse for Opus Dei? Is this whole “anti-Catholic” thing really an Opis Dei/Knights of Malta vs Jesuits and “Liberation Theology” Catholicism?
The movement Vance belongs to is called Catholic Integralism. Look that up, and also google the Napa Institute, a Catholic Integralism convention held every year in Napa Valley at a resort owned by Tim Busch, a mega millionaire who cofounded the Napa Institute to “prepare Catholics for the Next America”. I’m sure you can guess how they define the “Next America”.
My very catholic sister voted for Trump on one issue. Abortion.
I tried to explain how dangerous he is but no avail
I hope she sees this
I think it is a big bunch of catholic went maga
It's ruined my relationship with her. I think she is a racist that is using Abortion for cover
Most if not all of my cousins on my father’s side are Catholic and MAGA. My mother’s side is more split (still Catholic, many Democrats and Independents, a few MAGA).
they are suing https://apnews.com/article/catholic-bishops-lawsuit-refugee-resettlement-trump-administration-09477d766651a940ae53840ce3bd9c6e
As a subscriber to the Bulwark and frequent listener I am curious to know the origin story of how The JVL knows Fr. Harrison. I have desired to know the answer since Fr. Anthony called
Shannon during a show to get a topic for presbyteral exertations.
Oh JVL... All intelligent Canadians have long devoted much of our time to watching what is going on down there. That's actually the secret behind the success of Canadian comedians in the US (within the milieux but still perspectively apart from it). Father Harrison is just one of us.
We still have a number of RC schools within each parish. In fact, our son attends a RC K-9 school on the other side of our backyard fence.
The fact that, by dint of a constitutional quirk, Ontario still has both public secular and public RC schools (you pick which one you support with annual property tax bill) may have something to do with that though.
Yet another reason for that faux-Episcopalian, burnt-orange, slovenly, corruption monster to try to annex us I suppose...
I am a 69 year old cradle Catholic who grew up in a 'Catholic ghetto'. I will confess I am churchless now. Between the SA scandals to the MAGAfication of the Church that I see running rampant in Kansas and through my very large family, it IS, and has been, consuming Catholicism. (Look up Harrison Butker graduation speech. The Benedictine nuns took issue with some of it, but the male clergy was all about it.) I miss my old church.
Pope Francis gave me hope, but in the U.S., the church is quickly losing it's Christianity.
I volunteer at a local food pantry here in NH. Catholic Charities donates a lot of money to the NH Food Bank organization for the purpose of distributing to local pantries. Use of the funds are restricted with a requirement that the funds be spent at local farms on fresh meat/produce. This benefits the hungry as well as local agriculture. Unfortunately, the average US citizen has absolutely no idea how anything functions in our society. A generalization, yes, but I'm sticking with it. They are too busy "amusing themselves to death" with TikTok and other nonsense as predicted by Neil Postman.
People won't like this comment but frankly I don't care, because it needs to be said. The biggest takeaway from this conversation and how religion in America has operated in the Trump Dynasty, is that christianity in America is full of hypocrites. You either believe in the principles of Christianity or you don't - watching how the organised religious organisations in the USA bend and twist their religious beliefs to fit their current goals is sad to watch.
That may be why so many people today identify as "spiritual but not religious." The churches seem to be full of people who are religious, but not spiritual.
Matt, I completely agree. The fact is that Christianity has been re-made in North America, in what is now the United States, since it set foot here around 1608. There's a great book -- "Under the Cope of Heaven" -- which describes the numerous Christianities that have evolved from the first colonizers through about 1805. Christianity is always in the process of being re-invented according to scholarship and politics.
Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll have to get my hands on it :)
It's really crucial -- in my opinion -- to set the background for the First Amendment. There were so many kinds of religious observance at the time of the Constitution -- including wildfire newcomer Methodism (brought by the Wesleys in the 1730s or so) that I think people in the 21st century are pretty ignorant of the sense of competition among the various old and new varieties of Protestant Christianity.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana - 1905
History is so often ignored, and that leads to ignorance of the lessons learned. Sometimes it is through laziness, and other times it's willful to benefit special interest groups. Take your Second Amendment as an example - the text is plain and easy to understand, and the framers provided context in their writings. The way it is interepreted in the current century however, has no relevance whatsoever to the words themselves and the idea behind them.
I love the way when it is quoted by gun nuts, the first half is completely ignored! I have no idea on the actual numbers, but would take an educated guess and actually bet my house that the vast majority of gun owners in America are not members of 'A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state....'. The wording and intention is clear, and when the context of the time it was written is added (and the framers writings taken into account), it becomes even clearer. Yet the lobbyists have twisted it into meaning no regulations AT ALL on gun rights is the true meaning
Absolutely. The National Defense Act of 1916, which established the National Guard, pretty much superseded the "need" to have a well-regulated militia. May I suggest: "https://stephenhalbrook.com/books/the-founders-second-amendment/
Excellent program. A totally irrelevant note; Mr. Condon's wristwatch was great but his Muddy the Mudhen cap on top of his bookstack was the killer.
The Aspen Cult is moving serious RC $ to Maga for sure.
Aspen
Just saw that the bishops are now suing Trump over the suspension of refugee admissions!
Could Francis’ successor be viewed as so liberal as to cause a split in the Catholic Church similar to what has happened in virtually all Protestant churches?
Recovering Catholic here: The Catholic Church likes immigration b/c they are ensured (south of the border especially) to grow their flock - and of people who are anti-choice, anti-LGBTQ, and who will attend mass weekly.
Raised Catholic in the Midwest. I appreciate these conversations. Pope John Paul forever ❤️
I grew up in a rural town in Georgia, very southern evangelical. We had a Catholic church in my town, but it was a small minority. It’s been fascinating/horrifying to watch how the MAGA movement uses evangelicals as foot soldiers and Catholics as intellectuals.
Mike Pence was raised Catholic but became an evangelical as an adult. These days the reverse seems to be happening.
Spot on. Catholic intellectuals can bring 2000 years of ‘cred’ to the task of making revanchism great again in a country where the evangelical ‘church’ is nothing more than the US ‘folk religion’.
I’m heartbroken about CCH they do an incredible amount of good in my city. Wow. That’s genuinely devastating. Having both my governor and president being pure evil is difficult on the soul. If Trump was drowning I’d throw him Greg Abbott lol.
I am super confused. Who is JD's priest? What parish does he worship at? What is his priest teaching everyone at the parish? It can't be what JD sanctimoniously blathers on about. Can it? I really hope Pope Francis recovers, I really do.
I heard he is a member of Opus Dei. The ultra-conservatives wing of the Catholic Church.
Oh I know I was so excited to see this episode but my heart is heavy with Francis being so sick right now, like I was wondering how it would be if his last thing before dying was that showdown with Vance........
Interesting, thanks for the dive into the Catholic Church. I’m a lapsed Catholic living in a very Catholic neighborhood who has been surprised by how quickly the Republican/conservative identity has apparently overwhelmed the Catholic teachings. Lots of single issue - abortion - voters who do not seem to care about any other lives Trump policies will harm.
Over the past three or four decades, both Catholic and Evangelical preachers over-emphasized abortion and other social issues to the point where the more ignorant among the pew-sitters came to believe social issues were the main substance of Christianity.
No MAGA Catholic bishops? Um...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aDmN7-v0Gc
I would say Bishop Robert Barron is MAGAified.
Most definitely.
As a reader (in a good way) of The Pillar and a subscriber to the Bulwark, it's cool to see JVL and Ed together in a Pillar/Bulwark mashup. Perhaps JVL can come down from The City to Baltimore in the fall the Pillar live show (yes, Baltimore please - DC is a bit far for this South central Pennsylvanian).
As a non-practicing Catholic in Houston, TX I can confirm that all my former Catholic friends have been MAGAified.
Cradle Catholic here -- super concerned and quite horrified by the MAGAfied members of my faith.
Totally agree after my 88 year old mom said she didn’t wanna go to dinner with my sister if she was gonna push Elon Musk and Trump at her like she usually does, this is what my sister wrote after pushing some lie about bird flu sent by Democrats to China and covered it up with Covid.
Wow. OK, I will just keep praying for you because Mom, you said you want to get to heaven, I pray you will. God is merciful. But He will not make it easy if you continue to look the other way with all the evil in the world. She works for a Catholic organization. She’s a big part of the Colorado Republican Party. She is more over the top MAGA than I’ve ever known anybody. But to tell my mother, she’s not gonna go to heaven because she doesn’t believe the same way as my sister the Catholic Church has lost me.
Same. It has been providential to attend a Jesuit parish where the focus has remained on Catholic social teachings writ large.
Politics has a hugely corrosive effect on spirituality. The reality is that the Christian faith as taught by Jesus Christ does not neatly align with either political party in American life, and we should be very suspicious of anyone who makes claims to the contrary.
Yes
I am as well. I served as a Eucharistic Minister, taught in the Religious Education program even after my children were grown and attended Mass regularly. COVID did me in, I realized that there were many people in my parish who could not care less about me or anyone else when they pitched fits about wearing a mask to help prevent the spread of infection. Watching the GOP leadership complain about an Episcopal Bishop preaching a sermon based on the Beatitudes while claiming to be "Christian" just highlights that the Christian Nationalist movement is not at all about Christianity. So to hear JD Vance say that the Catholic Church is just looking for money from the federal government is no surprise.
DITTO remember Romero was murdered for being too "Christ-like"
You must be kidding , the Catholic Church has been voting Republican for forty two years since legalization of abortion. The priests and republican politicians have shouted from the podium to vote against pro abortion democrats for 42 years.And now that their issue is unpopular the Republicans can’t run away from it fast enough. We’ve been grifted for 42 years.
The Catholic Church is Republican , where have you been ?
On some positions (abortion) the Church aligns with the GOP. On others (death penalty, immigration) it does not. Christianity does not neatly validate either political party in modern American society, which is part of the issue behind Republicans trying to directly link Christian identity with Republican identity.
John, both Johns, I’ve spent 12 years being educated by priests , nuns , and brothers since 1965, all outstanding, committed people. We have fed the poor , clothed the homeless and worked in Catholic hospitals. I attend weekly Mass and attend Sunday Mass. Raised my children the same way, though they have graduated from Catholic colleges. I love my faith and my religion.
All these virtues the Catholic faith provides with great commitment, however the pews are filled with Republicans that don’t like democrats. Abortion, homosexuality, divorce, IVF have all overshadowed the “greater good. “In their minds.
I am a democrat and a Catholic and I am in the church. It’s overwhelmingly Republican.
As a factual matter this is simply wrong.
The relationship I see between the Catholic Church and MAGA is misogyny. The hierarchy I see are white male and plenty of them have either participated in or covered up sex scandals. Having said that, I think in many instances one could separate the Catholic church’s charity work from that of their political work. In America they have supported republicans in contrast to the 50’s when I was a child in Catholic school supporting civil rights for Black people and minorities. That changed in 80’s with the Catholic Church’s misogyny and treatment of women and their obvious stand against women with abortion opposition. The Catholic Church’s history of exploiting vulnerable women and stealing their babies by force and deception to be sold to adoption is disturbing.
100%. I was keenly aware of my 2nd class status growing up as a Catholic girl. I’m proudly raising my daughter as a UU, where she is treated with dignity and equality. If the Church wants to really do good in the world and keep out creepers like JD Vance, it needs to clean up its misogyny problem. At minimum, birth control is not immoral, nor is divorcing an abuser, and nuns should not take orders from priests and should be able to say mass.
Syracuse is MAGAfied.
It’s about MAGA and Catholic Churches
WATCH EVERYONE PLEASE 🙏 😇🙏
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Did you watch?
Share as much as you possibly can, WE NEED TO SPREAD THE WORD. 🙏😇
You have not listened to Rachel Maddows ULTRA podcast. It’s is a deep and historic connection to MAGA. Alarmingly.
I will, just my life is a bit hectic this days