I get the argument that Obama wants harmed by the primary fight in 2008 but I do think Clinton was harmed by the protracted primary/inter party argument in 2016. Either way, I'm nervous.
Is it time to admit that the logic of No Labels may have been correct?: Voters, with good reason, despise the two major-party options, and it would have been good to have an alternative candidate ready to run in the event of an emergency.
Bill Kristol was right. He was right in January. He is right now. We are all incredibly grateful to President Biden but time marches on. Facts are hard things.
The Bulwark is a full-throated participant in the Putin, Xi and Oligarch wannabes information warfare campaign being waged against the United States of America.
You are projecting. The Bulwark is leading the fight AGAINST autocrats like Putin and Xi - and their protege Trump. When you mischaracterize disagreements about strategy as siding with the opposition, you are taking a page from the autocrats' playbook.
The Bulwark is a news and commentary outlet, NOT a propaganda outlet whose job is to promote their "team". Furthermore, The Bulwark has zero influence on the electorate. It is not capable of doing "damage" to Biden. Biden has damaged himself, and it is not the job of anyone outside his own team to cover that up or spin it.
It is the job of journalists to find out and publicize the truth. Hiding inconvenient truths is the sort of thing that autocrats do, and it appears you wish The Bulwark would behave more like autocrats, publishing only what serves to promote the party line.
Worst of all, you accuse Tim of "trying" to force "Dem party division". You might sincerely believe the result of Biden's withdrawal would be division among Democrats, but turning that into an ad hominem attack on Tim, accusing him of INTENDING that outcome is both ridiculous and libelous.
One might similarly accuse you of trying to get Trump elected by forcing the Dems to stick with a candidate who is incapable of winning. The problems with that accusation are that 1) it is not clear that you actually intend that outcome, and 2) even if you wished for that outcome, you have no power to bring it about through your shitposting.
I am still not convinced that Tim and Bill are right. I think it might be too late to change candidates. But I completely reject your ad hominem attack, as well as your arrogant certainty that they are wrong. Tim and Bill have both shown more humility about their stance on this issue than you have ever shown about anything.
Tim it would be nice if Bill Kristol focused a equal amount of criticism and attention on trump as he does Biden, maybe Bill should go to work for the NYT, and I have a fuck of a hard time listening to him talk, runs his words together, talks little too fast at low monotone voice, Bill needs to sound off like he has a pair, just tell him to give Biden a fucken Break for a change, I like your show Tim, but I’ve stopped listening to Your and Bills show, too much criticism for me. AMF
While Bill and Tim make a good case for covering this topic, there's a downside they didn't mention: the rally-round-the-underdog effect, or maybe we should call it the Trump effect. A significant, and loud, chunk of Biden's most committed supporters feel their guy is being unfairly attacked and, if some of the more favorable polls are correct, that feeling may be spreading. Not everyone looked at the debate and saw abject failure. Some saw a man struggle and partially overcome a very bad start, and they aren't taking kindly to being lectured about "what we all saw."
So maybe continue discussing it, but not all day every day? Maybe put the focus back on other political news while the Dems (hopefully) get their act together?
Are we a political party or a suicide pact? Biden step down, Obama & Clinton moderate some debates, pick a new president & vp, kamala of course is included in all of this. Maybe she gets thru, maybe not. I think trump had incorporated bots to stan for Biden staying in the race. We're getting hoodwinked.
The current version of Joe Biden would not get through an initial job interview for any meaningful CEO job anywhere in the world. Biden needs to be replaced before November.
In the words of one of your most famous sons ...do it Now!
We look up to you guys as the leaders of the free world. Start leading.
The worst that can happen is not that a bad guy gets to strut his stuff for four years it is that you collectively put short term political gain in the US ahead of long lasting standing position in the world.
I am as concerned regarding the Trump menace as most Americans.
However, my point was that the whole world knows what Trump is like and similarly, we all know that an elderly person who is clearly confused will only deteriorate further as the years take there toll. Sad to say but Biden is no longer a viable candidate.
By replacing Biden as soon as decency allows a replacement may still loose but has a fighting chance of success and would allow us Europeans to hope that Trump may still be defeated.
I am in favor of replacing Biden but I’m not sure my party is up for the fight it will take. We will know more in a week as more and more defectors become known. I’m just disgusted with my country for idealizing and adoring a commonplace grifter from Queens.
An idea for convincing the family to wake up about what Biden should do: if he did withdraw or even resign, whether with or without an endorsement, he could go on and pardon Hunter! There'd be some blowback to the party's eventual nominee, sure, but not much effect on the election results.
Can we take away Bidens argument that he is the only one who has ever beaten Trump. It enrages me every time I hear it. He is the only democrat that has ever ran against him. It's a fucking weak argument. Pleas for the love of God can someone pleas get that out there and against anyone who ever uses it.
I feel like I hear so much about what needs to be done on these podcasts by so many people who have been long-term Democrats. Is somebody telling anybody to do this?
Can you (because if not you, who?) find some young people (influencers) to create content on TikTok and instagram to highlight the 2025 Project and the Supreme Court nominations if Dump is re-elected? Some celebs? Taylor Swift?
I think I’m officially giving up on The Bulwark . I’m so sick of this bullshit Biden bashing just a description of the episode. Is enough for me to say fuck off again.
It's either Biden or Harris. Can we please dispense with the suicidal idea of a brokered convention? It's hard to take anyone seriously who doesn't see this clearly by now - African Americans are Biden's biggest supporters right now and the heart of the Democratic Party. At this point trying to bypass Harris is borderline insulting to all of us. Let. It. Go.
The convention can pick the VP for all that rah rah game board fun.
I get the argument that Obama wants harmed by the primary fight in 2008 but I do think Clinton was harmed by the protracted primary/inter party argument in 2016. Either way, I'm nervous.
Is it time to admit that the logic of No Labels may have been correct?: Voters, with good reason, despise the two major-party options, and it would have been good to have an alternative candidate ready to run in the event of an emergency.
Bill Kristol was right. He was right in January. He is right now. We are all incredibly grateful to President Biden but time marches on. Facts are hard things.
The Bulwark is a full-throated participant in the Putin, Xi and Oligarch wannabes information warfare campaign being waged against the United States of America.
You are projecting. The Bulwark is leading the fight AGAINST autocrats like Putin and Xi - and their protege Trump. When you mischaracterize disagreements about strategy as siding with the opposition, you are taking a page from the autocrats' playbook.
I beg to differ, to turn a phrase.
Projecting what, exactly?
DJT’s best hope of winning is to force a Biden exit and/or Dem party division.
Tim and the Bulwark are trying to do both.
I don’t care that Tim says he’ll support Biden after he does everything he can to shit on Biden pre convention, the damage will have been done.
The Bulwark is a news and commentary outlet, NOT a propaganda outlet whose job is to promote their "team". Furthermore, The Bulwark has zero influence on the electorate. It is not capable of doing "damage" to Biden. Biden has damaged himself, and it is not the job of anyone outside his own team to cover that up or spin it.
It is the job of journalists to find out and publicize the truth. Hiding inconvenient truths is the sort of thing that autocrats do, and it appears you wish The Bulwark would behave more like autocrats, publishing only what serves to promote the party line.
Worst of all, you accuse Tim of "trying" to force "Dem party division". You might sincerely believe the result of Biden's withdrawal would be division among Democrats, but turning that into an ad hominem attack on Tim, accusing him of INTENDING that outcome is both ridiculous and libelous.
One might similarly accuse you of trying to get Trump elected by forcing the Dems to stick with a candidate who is incapable of winning. The problems with that accusation are that 1) it is not clear that you actually intend that outcome, and 2) even if you wished for that outcome, you have no power to bring it about through your shitposting.
I am still not convinced that Tim and Bill are right. I think it might be too late to change candidates. But I completely reject your ad hominem attack, as well as your arrogant certainty that they are wrong. Tim and Bill have both shown more humility about their stance on this issue than you have ever shown about anything.
Good to see that you have Tim’s appreciation.
It is nice when someone defends you from accusations of being a fascist and so I like to acknowledge that
I’ve never accused you nor anyone else at Bulwark of being fascist.
Tim it would be nice if Bill Kristol focused a equal amount of criticism and attention on trump as he does Biden, maybe Bill should go to work for the NYT, and I have a fuck of a hard time listening to him talk, runs his words together, talks little too fast at low monotone voice, Bill needs to sound off like he has a pair, just tell him to give Biden a fucken Break for a change, I like your show Tim, but I’ve stopped listening to Your and Bills show, too much criticism for me. AMF
While Bill and Tim make a good case for covering this topic, there's a downside they didn't mention: the rally-round-the-underdog effect, or maybe we should call it the Trump effect. A significant, and loud, chunk of Biden's most committed supporters feel their guy is being unfairly attacked and, if some of the more favorable polls are correct, that feeling may be spreading. Not everyone looked at the debate and saw abject failure. Some saw a man struggle and partially overcome a very bad start, and they aren't taking kindly to being lectured about "what we all saw."
So maybe continue discussing it, but not all day every day? Maybe put the focus back on other political news while the Dems (hopefully) get their act together?
Are we a political party or a suicide pact? Biden step down, Obama & Clinton moderate some debates, pick a new president & vp, kamala of course is included in all of this. Maybe she gets thru, maybe not. I think trump had incorporated bots to stan for Biden staying in the race. We're getting hoodwinked.
Love the implied admission from Kamala that every four years their election scaremongering is bullshit.
Viewed from the UK, you guys need to get real.
The current version of Joe Biden would not get through an initial job interview for any meaningful CEO job anywhere in the world. Biden needs to be replaced before November.
In the words of one of your most famous sons ...do it Now!
We look up to you guys as the leaders of the free world. Start leading.
The worst that can happen is not that a bad guy gets to strut his stuff for four years it is that you collectively put short term political gain in the US ahead of long lasting standing position in the world.
I can assure you that Trump, a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist, would not even get the initial interview.
Colleen, you are of course correct.
I am as concerned regarding the Trump menace as most Americans.
However, my point was that the whole world knows what Trump is like and similarly, we all know that an elderly person who is clearly confused will only deteriorate further as the years take there toll. Sad to say but Biden is no longer a viable candidate.
By replacing Biden as soon as decency allows a replacement may still loose but has a fighting chance of success and would allow us Europeans to hope that Trump may still be defeated.
It's your best shot.
I am in favor of replacing Biden but I’m not sure my party is up for the fight it will take. We will know more in a week as more and more defectors become known. I’m just disgusted with my country for idealizing and adoring a commonplace grifter from Queens.
An idea for convincing the family to wake up about what Biden should do: if he did withdraw or even resign, whether with or without an endorsement, he could go on and pardon Hunter! There'd be some blowback to the party's eventual nominee, sure, but not much effect on the election results.
He cannot pardon Hunter. It would be a catastrophe.
Can we take away Bidens argument that he is the only one who has ever beaten Trump. It enrages me every time I hear it. He is the only democrat that has ever ran against him. It's a fucking weak argument. Pleas for the love of God can someone pleas get that out there and against anyone who ever uses it.
You're forgetting Hillary Clinton. So, we're 1 for 1. I do agree we need a better argument, but he's not wrong.
I feel like I hear so much about what needs to be done on these podcasts by so many people who have been long-term Democrats. Is somebody telling anybody to do this?
Can you (because if not you, who?) find some young people (influencers) to create content on TikTok and instagram to highlight the 2025 Project and the Supreme Court nominations if Dump is re-elected? Some celebs? Taylor Swift?
I see that in ads in Wisconsin 20 times/day. Its pretty much the only ad I ever see.
Obama v Clinton did strengthen both candidates but Bernie v Clinton DID NOT. Bernie created Crooked Hillary.
I think I’m officially giving up on The Bulwark . I’m so sick of this bullshit Biden bashing just a description of the episode. Is enough for me to say fuck off again.
It's either Biden or Harris. Can we please dispense with the suicidal idea of a brokered convention? It's hard to take anyone seriously who doesn't see this clearly by now - African Americans are Biden's biggest supporters right now and the heart of the Democratic Party. At this point trying to bypass Harris is borderline insulting to all of us. Let. It. Go.
The convention can pick the VP for all that rah rah game board fun.