Trump and Vance are pioneering a form of politics where American power means nothing, everything is bad, and politicians focus on tearing people down—and getting other Americans to do the same.
Speaking as an anti-trump Jew (and an extremely orthodox one in my personal practice), the reason so many in my community give trump’s obvious anti-semitism a pass is because they (correctly) perceive left-wing anti-semitism as a direct threat to Jewish life in Israel and in American in the short term. Post 7/10 many Jews will vote entirely on the question of safety for them and their family and I think that the trump term was good for Jews (without whitewashing). Again, I’m not saying Jews should vote for him, I’m just explaining why many will (including my friends and family), and why I think they’re reasonable. When you go through life worried about your physical safety, about the safety of your kids (I don’t let the kids go to the park on their own anymore because both they and I have been accosted in the streets too many times in the past year, and once assaulted), you start looking out for short term security as the primary focus. It’s an instinct. Most of us who are visibly Jewish are currently in that space. The culprits are left wing anti-semites (I’m sorry, I’m meant to say anti-zionists).
I really like snyder and I find his analysis useful but I struggle with his Ukraine analysis.
I really want to give Ukraine more (to be fair I have no understanding of (1) war strategy and (2) what we have to give). However, snyder seems to understand the politics of the situation. There is just no world in which (1) the USA gives more than it already has and (2) is able to ever give enough for Ukraine to “win” the war. No matter what happens in November, the one thing I’m confident of is that republicans will take at least one house of congress. There is no world where the aid package we give Ukraine isn’t substantially smaller than what the Republican congress delayed for 6 months 4 months ago. There is also no chance that (1) Ukraine gets admitted to nato (Hungary gets a vote) and (2) that Americans will ever sign a security deal where Americans fight for Ukrainians. Those wishes are just not politically feasible
This was my second dose of Snyder today (Jen Rubin’s Green Room). Benefited from both discussions given how meaty the topic is. Ending on the beauty of no one approach being definitively correct while a blended approach might lead to a more fruitful outcome was music to my ears. We are free to make mistakes in policy decisions. The key is maintaining freedom as the assessment tool that then infuses us with the freedom to change a mistaken course hopefully for the better. (Reminds me of Madiba K. Dennie’s inclusive constitutionalism.)
The MAGA focus on a cartoonish version of masculinity lines up with their views of strength, wealth, class, and intellect. The fact is that masculinity is one of those attributes in which people whow actually possess it rarely feel the need to talk about it.
Great conversation between the Tims. I read some of Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism essay today and was truly struck by how perfectly his 14 points aligned to MAGA's words and deeds... it was like reading the horoscope from hell.
Thank you for the great and insightful talk with Tim Snyder! Also you guys have probably had Ruy Texeira on before but even if you have it would be a great interview here or over on the Focus Group podcast!
God no. That guys is constantly dead wrong. I highly recommend you listen to the conversation between ruy and Ezra Klein to see just how he has absolutely no evidence for any of his “theories” (fyi they are just things he wants/likes and just works backwards to say it’s popular).
As a Jew I think the reason that many of my coreligionists focus on the antisemitism of the Left rather than the RIght is from a sense of abandonment. We thought we had friends and allies in the progressive Left but now feel alone and left wondering where to look for friends.
As a life long leftist who has known a whole lot of Jewish anti-Zionists (remember when they were called “self hating Jews”?), I would argue that, while this might be what some Jews are feeling, that doesn’t mean it’s based on reality. I think it’s more a result of the fact that a couple of pro-Bibi Jewish organizations are promoting the idea that any criticism of Israel from the left is equivalent to antisemitism, while they downplay right wing antisemitism.
I recently compared two stories in Jewish magazines about the attacks at City College: one didn’t say how many people were involved, which made it feel huge; the other said 30 people were involved, and pointed out how gigantic City College is.
The ultra-leftists (who to me are just neo-Stalinists) have never been anyone’s friend: they were claiming that “Zionism is racism” back in the 80s. The fact that a bunch of kids have gotten on board with them isn’t such a surprise to someone like me, who was a kid in the 60s and still thinks about how the brain doesn’t finish developing until one’s mid 20s.
I’m a shiksa and I find them scary too, but I think the tiny crew that showed up at the Democratic Convention also says something about their actual numbers.
The fact that many people on the left hate Bibi (including a considerable number of Israelis) doesn’t mean we are no longer “friends and allies” of the Jewish people. Bibi belongs in jail, and most of the people I know who agree with me are Jewish. And most of us are with the families of the hostages, who are fighting for a cease fire. We are more distressed about Israel turning into a rogue state than we are about idiot students chanting moronic slogans.
I'm on the left. I don't think people on the left have any problem whatsoever with American Jewish people and consider you and others just as we consider others, as fellow Americans. It's the leadership of Israel that we have a huge problem with. Israel is committing ethnic cleansing, probably genocide, in Gaza, which is clear to see if you look at the destruction and read the stats on how many people have been killed, how many children, etc. It's obvious. How could any American support that? The Israeli government is the problem.
And I know the Tims mean well, but antisemitism is not worse a worse thing than Islamaphobia. Both are bad. The Israeli government is clearly made up of people who hate Palestinians - all of them - at a gut level, and want to destroy them all, everywhere, and that is just as bad as any antisemitism anywhere on earth.
This is why I am no longer on the Left. They are either in denial or they fully support the extermination of Jews in the Middle East but they claim they are not antisemitic since they are OK with Jews in the US.
Thank you David for your comment. I’m an atheist and had thought of myself as a Liberal Progressive and I am appalled at the antisemitism on the Left. I no longer think of myself as a progressive (the word has been taken over by antisemites). I was very upset with Biden last spring when he didn’t come out sooner to speak up when the campus protests were taking over the campuses. My blood pressure actually shot up to 170 and I am not even Jewish. I had to turn off the TV in order to survive. I just want to let you know that there are Liberals like myself that still have your back. I have to admit that in this moment, I really wish we had a RINO like McCain running for President. I’m keeping an eye out for down ballot candidates and voting against antisemitism.
What antisemitism are you seeing? It's not the campus protests, or other protests against the war in Gaza. That is not antisemitism. I'm afraid Tim gets it wrong when he characterizes protests as against Jewish people. That is not what they are. They are human rights activists protesting the war and the murder of innocent civilian's and the ethnic cleansing in Gaza. It's not antisemitic to call out the Israeli government for their human rights abuses. If people are going to complain about growing antisemitism I would like to see one example of that, and then see where and how often it is happening. It's not happening at anti-war protests.
Most of the claims of "growing" antisemitism in the US come from the ADL and AIPAC, which are not American democratic institutions. They are biased arms of the Israeli government.
Speaking as an anti-trump Jew (and an extremely orthodox one in my personal practice), the reason so many in my community give trump’s obvious anti-semitism a pass is because they (correctly) perceive left-wing anti-semitism as a direct threat to Jewish life in Israel and in American in the short term. Post 7/10 many Jews will vote entirely on the question of safety for them and their family and I think that the trump term was good for Jews (without whitewashing). Again, I’m not saying Jews should vote for him, I’m just explaining why many will (including my friends and family), and why I think they’re reasonable. When you go through life worried about your physical safety, about the safety of your kids (I don’t let the kids go to the park on their own anymore because both they and I have been accosted in the streets too many times in the past year, and once assaulted), you start looking out for short term security as the primary focus. It’s an instinct. Most of us who are visibly Jewish are currently in that space. The culprits are left wing anti-semites (I’m sorry, I’m meant to say anti-zionists).
Exceptionally good one. Will definitely pick up his book because the whole "freedom from" lens is the only lens I've known for such a long time.
Came here to add to SEC Talk: Hook Em 🤘🏻
I really like snyder and I find his analysis useful but I struggle with his Ukraine analysis.
I really want to give Ukraine more (to be fair I have no understanding of (1) war strategy and (2) what we have to give). However, snyder seems to understand the politics of the situation. There is just no world in which (1) the USA gives more than it already has and (2) is able to ever give enough for Ukraine to “win” the war. No matter what happens in November, the one thing I’m confident of is that republicans will take at least one house of congress. There is no world where the aid package we give Ukraine isn’t substantially smaller than what the Republican congress delayed for 6 months 4 months ago. There is also no chance that (1) Ukraine gets admitted to nato (Hungary gets a vote) and (2) that Americans will ever sign a security deal where Americans fight for Ukrainians. Those wishes are just not politically feasible
Really, a cat food ad interrupting such a sober discussion of death in Ukraine.
This was my second dose of Snyder today (Jen Rubin’s Green Room). Benefited from both discussions given how meaty the topic is. Ending on the beauty of no one approach being definitively correct while a blended approach might lead to a more fruitful outcome was music to my ears. We are free to make mistakes in policy decisions. The key is maintaining freedom as the assessment tool that then infuses us with the freedom to change a mistaken course hopefully for the better. (Reminds me of Madiba K. Dennie’s inclusive constitutionalism.)
The MAGA focus on a cartoonish version of masculinity lines up with their views of strength, wealth, class, and intellect. The fact is that masculinity is one of those attributes in which people whow actually possess it rarely feel the need to talk about it.
Interesting. I’ve always thought of it as a construct.
Great conversation between the Tims. I read some of Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism essay today and was truly struck by how perfectly his 14 points aligned to MAGA's words and deeds... it was like reading the horoscope from hell.
What a wonderful, thoughtful conversation!
Love Timothy Snyder. Love Tim Miller too, of course.
Thank you for the great and insightful talk with Tim Snyder! Also you guys have probably had Ruy Texeira on before but even if you have it would be a great interview here or over on the Focus Group podcast!
God no. That guys is constantly dead wrong. I highly recommend you listen to the conversation between ruy and Ezra Klein to see just how he has absolutely no evidence for any of his “theories” (fyi they are just things he wants/likes and just works backwards to say it’s popular).
Teixiera? God no, please no.
As a Jew I think the reason that many of my coreligionists focus on the antisemitism of the Left rather than the RIght is from a sense of abandonment. We thought we had friends and allies in the progressive Left but now feel alone and left wondering where to look for friends.
As a life long leftist who has known a whole lot of Jewish anti-Zionists (remember when they were called “self hating Jews”?), I would argue that, while this might be what some Jews are feeling, that doesn’t mean it’s based on reality. I think it’s more a result of the fact that a couple of pro-Bibi Jewish organizations are promoting the idea that any criticism of Israel from the left is equivalent to antisemitism, while they downplay right wing antisemitism.
I recently compared two stories in Jewish magazines about the attacks at City College: one didn’t say how many people were involved, which made it feel huge; the other said 30 people were involved, and pointed out how gigantic City College is.
The ultra-leftists (who to me are just neo-Stalinists) have never been anyone’s friend: they were claiming that “Zionism is racism” back in the 80s. The fact that a bunch of kids have gotten on board with them isn’t such a surprise to someone like me, who was a kid in the 60s and still thinks about how the brain doesn’t finish developing until one’s mid 20s.
I’m a shiksa and I find them scary too, but I think the tiny crew that showed up at the Democratic Convention also says something about their actual numbers.
The fact that many people on the left hate Bibi (including a considerable number of Israelis) doesn’t mean we are no longer “friends and allies” of the Jewish people. Bibi belongs in jail, and most of the people I know who agree with me are Jewish. And most of us are with the families of the hostages, who are fighting for a cease fire. We are more distressed about Israel turning into a rogue state than we are about idiot students chanting moronic slogans.
I'm on the left. I don't think people on the left have any problem whatsoever with American Jewish people and consider you and others just as we consider others, as fellow Americans. It's the leadership of Israel that we have a huge problem with. Israel is committing ethnic cleansing, probably genocide, in Gaza, which is clear to see if you look at the destruction and read the stats on how many people have been killed, how many children, etc. It's obvious. How could any American support that? The Israeli government is the problem.
And I know the Tims mean well, but antisemitism is not worse a worse thing than Islamaphobia. Both are bad. The Israeli government is clearly made up of people who hate Palestinians - all of them - at a gut level, and want to destroy them all, everywhere, and that is just as bad as any antisemitism anywhere on earth.
This is why I am no longer on the Left. They are either in denial or they fully support the extermination of Jews in the Middle East but they claim they are not antisemitic since they are OK with Jews in the US.
Thank you David for your comment. I’m an atheist and had thought of myself as a Liberal Progressive and I am appalled at the antisemitism on the Left. I no longer think of myself as a progressive (the word has been taken over by antisemites). I was very upset with Biden last spring when he didn’t come out sooner to speak up when the campus protests were taking over the campuses. My blood pressure actually shot up to 170 and I am not even Jewish. I had to turn off the TV in order to survive. I just want to let you know that there are Liberals like myself that still have your back. I have to admit that in this moment, I really wish we had a RINO like McCain running for President. I’m keeping an eye out for down ballot candidates and voting against antisemitism.
What antisemitism are you seeing? It's not the campus protests, or other protests against the war in Gaza. That is not antisemitism. I'm afraid Tim gets it wrong when he characterizes protests as against Jewish people. That is not what they are. They are human rights activists protesting the war and the murder of innocent civilian's and the ethnic cleansing in Gaza. It's not antisemitic to call out the Israeli government for their human rights abuses. If people are going to complain about growing antisemitism I would like to see one example of that, and then see where and how often it is happening. It's not happening at anti-war protests.
Most of the claims of "growing" antisemitism in the US come from the ADL and AIPAC, which are not American democratic institutions. They are biased arms of the Israeli government.
that’s interesting