Tim and Cam discuss young Americans’ response to the latest Ukraine news, and why they don’t show the same passion toward that cause as they have toward the war in Gaza.
People seem to be hating on this episode but I thought it was interesting. I am very interested in hearing people where they are. I know I’ll disagree with them sometimes but it doesn’t make their viewpoint suddenly not count. We need to know what people are saying, especially if they are wrong, so we can work to correct them. It’s why we have e the focus group pod, right? This is just that in long form… I hope you keep doing this, I will keep watching. I think it is important work because I hear things I do not hear elsewhere, so keep it up!
Tim, so glad you took the weekend off to celebrate your hubby’s milestone birthday. And during Mardi Gras! My (older) gen z son and his wife are going to New Orleans this coming weekend to celebrate his birthday. Such a fun city!
Tim has brought up Barstool a few times lately. I really would love him to go on PFT’s (somewhat) more political show, Macrodosing. I think it would be entertaining and could bring in an important audience
Some pods keep aski g 'what are the dems doing? Now daily, since people obviously don't want to look it up, Dems are posting in list form what they are doing and it's deemed dumb. What exactly do people want done?
Tim Miller (52:10): “People do not respond to positive policy incentives. They do respond to negging the other side.”
An old, short, no name Jew generated massive enthusiasm in 2016 by doing both.
First, he bitched about the rich not paying their fair share in taxes (negging). Second, he promised the masses more entitlement programs (positive policy incentives).
If a younger more charismatic D used this playbook in 2028 I think they would win.
My bad. Too much rock-n-roll in my youth has affected my hearing.
But I think my point still stands.
"Negging is a manipulative tactic that involves making someone feel bad about themselves." I think shaming the rich to pay more taxes fits that definition.
I can't. I feel like they are more performers than anything rn. I see a foundation for informative listening but not yet. She is more interesting than Cameron. He is too full of himself.
That is an interesting comment--don't you think that we are forcing all young people in our culture into being performative? Social media is sort of a performance art, and it's the dominant form of communication amongst young folks--are we creating humans in our society that are just performers?
I think you should just play clips of Bernie Sanders talking about Ukrainian democracy for the youths. I’ve heard he’s v popular among them. He’s been putting out some bangers lately. His clips go viral on TikTok and he does rlly well on YouTube considering he’s like 150 yrs old.
I think one thing Bulwark needs to reflect on is that obv there are going to be mistakes in the goal of creating a humane international order, but that’s why there needs to be rigorous accountability on people who screw up. And we especially need to be tougher on our allies when they commit war crimes. To protect against the norm of territorial integrity, it is actually more important Bulwark speak out against Israel annexing the West Bank than Putin taking Ukrainian territory. The sanctity of law and norms only holds when the world witnesses those norms applied to our allies, it cannot just be a tool to punish our adversaries. In a moment of China’s rise and potential multi polarity in international relations, where we can’t get our way through power alone, the case for establishing norms that would hold even when we aren’t the most powerful country in the world is even more imp.
Giving a pass to our allies breeds cynicism and absence of even a pretense of neutral application of law, there’s going to be a jungle and only cynicism, and Trump wins because he isn’t even *trying* to uphold moral values. Israel has a right to exist, it was created through international law, but it needs to exist within defined boundaries. The Israeli far right should not be allowed to mass expel a certain ethnic population and then re-populate that area with another ethnicity of ppl. I’m increasingly convinced ethnic cleansing will happen, but it’s important that it doesn’t happen with American made weapons and that we condemn it. It’s the 21st century and the principle of territorial integrity must be defended.
The bland discussion about Ukraine, the notion that they should consider giving up because they’re losing anyhow completely ignores the fact that they are actually winning. They have innovated incredibly with drone technology, and last week blew up an ammo depot creating an explosion, several times the size of Hiroshima depriving the Russians of a huge amount of war, material. They have done this again and again. In the last day or two they sent drones 1200 km into Russia to blow up a major refinery. They have been incredibly brave and smart, have pushed Russia back and are holding the line. Think what they could do with real assistance.
Russia’s economy is on the ropes and they have lost 800,000 men. That they have to import soldiers from North Korea is pathetic. They have also not any gained territory with all that loss of life.
This does not even address existential threat that Russian aggression poses to Europe. The attitude yeah sure we should do the right thing if we can is so shallow—the places that are taken back from Russia are full of mass Graves and torture chambers—that is what our privileged and uninformed American attitude would condemn Ukraine to.
Other facts worth mentioning are the Bucharest agreement in which Ukraine gave up its nukes and we guaranteed their security, as did Russia, who has now invaded and killed so many. So the Russians are liars that’s not news, but us too?
Geopolitically China loves what they’re seeing and is conducting war exercises off the coast of Australia.
People seem to be hating on this episode but I thought it was interesting. I am very interested in hearing people where they are. I know I’ll disagree with them sometimes but it doesn’t make their viewpoint suddenly not count. We need to know what people are saying, especially if they are wrong, so we can work to correct them. It’s why we have e the focus group pod, right? This is just that in long form… I hope you keep doing this, I will keep watching. I think it is important work because I hear things I do not hear elsewhere, so keep it up!
Tim, so glad you took the weekend off to celebrate your hubby’s milestone birthday. And during Mardi Gras! My (older) gen z son and his wife are going to New Orleans this coming weekend to celebrate his birthday. Such a fun city!
Tim has brought up Barstool a few times lately. I really would love him to go on PFT’s (somewhat) more political show, Macrodosing. I think it would be entertaining and could bring in an important audience
Some pods keep aski g 'what are the dems doing? Now daily, since people obviously don't want to look it up, Dems are posting in list form what they are doing and it's deemed dumb. What exactly do people want done?
Cameron and Ellie -- gosh, they just look and sound like such children to me. I'm so old.
“Be meaner to the freaks” ♥️ Another from Ellie, my new hero.
Yes Ellie (pls come on regularly!), I wholeheartedly agree about leaning in to how cringy and gross the right wing is.
MORE PODS??? I can't listen to more than 1 a day! You guys, and dozens and dozens of other pods all want my attention. Megspod overload!!!
Shout out to "If you give a mouse a cookie!"
Tim, Kristen Bell's husband has a little podcast. hahah
Tim Miller (52:10): “People do not respond to positive policy incentives. They do respond to negging the other side.”
An old, short, no name Jew generated massive enthusiasm in 2016 by doing both.
First, he bitched about the rich not paying their fair share in taxes (negging). Second, he promised the masses more entitlement programs (positive policy incentives).
If a younger more charismatic D used this playbook in 2028 I think they would win.
I think Tim used the word "negging" rather than "nagging".
My bad. Too much rock-n-roll in my youth has affected my hearing.
But I think my point still stands.
"Negging is a manipulative tactic that involves making someone feel bad about themselves." I think shaming the rich to pay more taxes fits that definition.
I can't. I feel like they are more performers than anything rn. I see a foundation for informative listening but not yet. She is more interesting than Cameron. He is too full of himself.
That is an interesting comment--don't you think that we are forcing all young people in our culture into being performative? Social media is sort of a performance art, and it's the dominant form of communication amongst young folks--are we creating humans in our society that are just performers?
I think you should just play clips of Bernie Sanders talking about Ukrainian democracy for the youths. I’ve heard he’s v popular among them. He’s been putting out some bangers lately. His clips go viral on TikTok and he does rlly well on YouTube considering he’s like 150 yrs old.
I think one thing Bulwark needs to reflect on is that obv there are going to be mistakes in the goal of creating a humane international order, but that’s why there needs to be rigorous accountability on people who screw up. And we especially need to be tougher on our allies when they commit war crimes. To protect against the norm of territorial integrity, it is actually more important Bulwark speak out against Israel annexing the West Bank than Putin taking Ukrainian territory. The sanctity of law and norms only holds when the world witnesses those norms applied to our allies, it cannot just be a tool to punish our adversaries. In a moment of China’s rise and potential multi polarity in international relations, where we can’t get our way through power alone, the case for establishing norms that would hold even when we aren’t the most powerful country in the world is even more imp.
Giving a pass to our allies breeds cynicism and absence of even a pretense of neutral application of law, there’s going to be a jungle and only cynicism, and Trump wins because he isn’t even *trying* to uphold moral values. Israel has a right to exist, it was created through international law, but it needs to exist within defined boundaries. The Israeli far right should not be allowed to mass expel a certain ethnic population and then re-populate that area with another ethnicity of ppl. I’m increasingly convinced ethnic cleansing will happen, but it’s important that it doesn’t happen with American made weapons and that we condemn it. It’s the 21st century and the principle of territorial integrity must be defended.
The bland discussion about Ukraine, the notion that they should consider giving up because they’re losing anyhow completely ignores the fact that they are actually winning. They have innovated incredibly with drone technology, and last week blew up an ammo depot creating an explosion, several times the size of Hiroshima depriving the Russians of a huge amount of war, material. They have done this again and again. In the last day or two they sent drones 1200 km into Russia to blow up a major refinery. They have been incredibly brave and smart, have pushed Russia back and are holding the line. Think what they could do with real assistance.
Russia’s economy is on the ropes and they have lost 800,000 men. That they have to import soldiers from North Korea is pathetic. They have also not any gained territory with all that loss of life.
This does not even address existential threat that Russian aggression poses to Europe. The attitude yeah sure we should do the right thing if we can is so shallow—the places that are taken back from Russia are full of mass Graves and torture chambers—that is what our privileged and uninformed American attitude would condemn Ukraine to.
Other facts worth mentioning are the Bucharest agreement in which Ukraine gave up its nukes and we guaranteed their security, as did Russia, who has now invaded and killed so many. So the Russians are liars that’s not news, but us too?
Geopolitically China loves what they’re seeing and is conducting war exercises off the coast of Australia.
I think GENZ has this correct. They are pointing out the Hypocrisy in terms of Gaza vs Ukraine.